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Why Linux is About to Lose

mpawlo writes "Wired ran an interesting piece by Russ Mitchell in the latest issue of the magazine. Mitchell focus on the so called war between Microsoft and Linux and why Linux will have a hard time winning such a war, and especially in respect of the desktops. The article was only available in the paper issue, but is now also available online."

20 of 654 comments (clear)

  1. Desktop shipments? Article disqualified. by geschild · · Score: 5, Informative

    To use the paltry 1.5% of shipments of Linux for desktop environments to disqualify Linux as a contender for the desktop shows how little the writer knows about Linux. And the writer worked for Red Hat? Please, somebody hit her with a clue-bat. The amount of shipments tells nothing about the installed base and for desktops you can rest assured that the number of shipments should be multiplied by a _much_ larger amount than with server-shipments exactly _because_ of the reduced licensing cost it can bring for workstations! Don't bother to read the piece, it's useless and shouldn't even have been posted here especially since it's a day old.

    Karma? What's that again?

    --
    Karma? What's that again?
    1. Re:Desktop shipments? Article disqualified. by ichimunki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The writer of the article was the boss of the woman with the laptop when they both worked at Red Hat's Wide Open News.

      The fact that they both worked at Red Hat means to me that she shouldn't have been running any Windows system to begin with. If she was having trouble with ApplixWare's spell-checker, maybe she should have investigated a Free Software solution or submitted it as a bug report to the development teams that work for the same company she does. Instead she uses (presumably) corporate funds to buy a competitors product instead of helping improve her own company's product?

      And the writer of this article sounds like he has an axe to grind... he stoops to insulting the offending tech based on his appearance, rather than his reluctance to support a major competitors' software. I'm surprised this woman even thought it was reasonable to expect tech support to work on her Windows machine. And her main argument for having a non-standard OS in the first place is spell-checking? Please.

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    2. Re:Desktop shipments? Article disqualified. by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Imagine you worked at a company that had standardized on Windows for the desktop, and you went to the helpdesk because you couldn't get your KDE themes on your Linux laptop to work. Would you be surprised when the help desk folks simply formatted your hard drive and reinstalled Windows?

      If you are going to use non-standard software, then you are going to have to support it yourself, that's how every helpdesk I have ever heard of works. Now most aren't pricks about it. They wouldn't simply format the drive and tell the user to lump it, but they wouldn't help her out either.

      Users get stuck using software that doesn't do the job very well but is the "standard" all of the time. Why should RedHat be any different?

      Besides, switching your OS because the spell checker doesn't know the correct spelling of "web site" (which was the example the article gave) is ridiculous. Especially if you are the web master. Geez, if your webmaster doesn't know how to spell web site, then you truly are screwed.

      Besides, when preparing text for a web site (especially one that would be serving a lot of Linux users) you don't need a word processor, and you especially don't want to be using MS Word. Imagine how the "real" webmasters felt having to pass all of this lady's text through the demoronizer so that it would work with Netscape. And she wondered why they formatted her hard drive. A real BOFH would simply have allowed her to post stories that would be full of '?' for many of her users. Someone should have set up Emacs for her so that it would automatically load flyspell and told her to write her columns in plain text. Using Emacs for this sort of thing is no harder than Using MS Word. In fact, it would be easier.

      Besides, I haven't used Applixware for a while, but it's spellchecker worked fine for me (4 years ago). The whole premise is bogus.

      Either way, you can't expect the helpdesk to support non-standard software, and you can't expect RedHat to standardize on MS Word.

  2. Why Linux isn't on the desktop or never will be? by SmileyBen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This was posted yesterday or the day before on Linuxtoday, and the thing I really didn't understand is not why people keep posting articles like this that claim to explain why Linux will never succeed, but why editors don't correct the headlines.

    Very, very little of this article is about why the author thinks linux won't succeed on the desktop - what it is about is why Linux isn't *currently* on the desktop.

    Sure, for example, we don't have an Office killer *currently*, but where exactly does he explain why we can never have one? Nobody can seriously be so conned by Microsoft as to believe that we'll always be playing catch-up. Obviously there will come a point (very soon, IMHO) when Linux word processors have every function most users could possibly want - just because Word adds new extraneous features every release doesn't mean those are necessary, and certainly doesn't mean people use them (or would miss them in a Linux equivalent).

    I'm just constantly bemused how people seem to make the inference from 'linux isn't currently on the desktop' to 'linux will never be on the desktop'. There may be some good reasons why this might be, but this article certainly doesn't offer any conclusive ones as far as I can see.

    Seems to me that there will come a point where a free operating system can do everything current OSes do, so the intuitive step is to ask 'Why when that happens will people pay for an OS instead?' - surely the burden is on people claiming linux will never win the desktop to answer that, even if that time is a year off or whatever.

  3. Death of Linux Imminent by karb · · Score: 5, Funny
    So, basically

    1. Tech zealot linux-head deletes windows (tech zealot windows-head would do same thing to linux) and makes the author mad.
    2. Since the linux desktop is behind, it will always be behind.
    3. Since linux on the server is behind, more work should be exerted to catch up.


    Unfortunately, I think the desktop is the passenger train of the golden age of railroads. You don't do it because it brings in the cash money. It's a mindshare thing. How else can you explain microsoft's now-dominance in the server market? They didn't do it by ignoring user-friendliness, that's for sure.

    --

    Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone

  4. Re:How can they lose the war, Easy! by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Linus doesn't even have to be at war with Microsoft, since Microsoft by dint has declared a secret war (or sometimes not so secret in the case .. aha .. AOL) on anyone making any product which isn't in cahoots with them, and on occasion sqaushing their own business partners when it suits them. This would appear, IMHO, to be the foundation of everyone's bitch against Microsoft.

    I heartily advise anyone, who hasn't already, to listen to Bill Gates give a speech. He is a megalomaniac and a charismatic one, besides, buy you really have to pay attention to what he says between the lines. It is very intimidating to hear his version of the future, one in which there really is no competition, but a utopia run by your best and well meaning friends, microsoft.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  5. Think long-term by Stiletto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ten, twenty years?

    In the future when we think ``computer'' we won't picture a big beige box under the desk with wires running all over the place, and another big box with a beam scanning back and forth across a piece of glass.

    If Linux lost the desktop PC, that's fine, 'cause the days of the desktop PC dinosaurs are numbered.

    The computers of the future are smaller, faster, and cheaper--Three words NOT in Microsoft's vocabulary.

  6. Re:Linux has not lost by quartz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heh. I like chicks who dig Linux. That's why I married a physicist. :)

    About the "hope" that you speak about, well, yes and no. Yes, Linux on the desktop will never "lose" as such 'cause there's nothing to lose. We write desktop software for Linux because *we* need it. If I want a native KDE Gnutella client and there isn't one available, I code myself one. That's how Linux software gets built. And that's why stupid "what ifs" like the one in the article (What if the Linux community put an end to all the desktop nonsense right now and built on its strengths in global enterprise computing) are pure nonsense. If I want a gnutella client, I will damn well code a gnutella client, not frickin' enterprise software for which I have no use. And no, Linux will never outdo Microsoft on the desktop market, pretty much for the same reason. When I design a program, I design it to fit MY needs. If others find it useful, that's OK with me. But frankly, I couldn't care less about Joe AOL and what he expects from a software package, therefore my software will never work for him.

    So I guess if for some strange reason you want all the world to run Linux, you'd better write commercial software for it. Not necessarily proprietary, but commercial. When the world finds a way to really make open source commercially successful, that's when Microsoft should start worrying.

  7. The fight for the desktop is essential by jonabbey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If we Linux folks give up on the desktop, we will eventually have to give up on the server, unless the states and the DOJ get really wise about remedies.

    As it stands now, the biggest single factor, by far, driving Microsoft server technology into the enterprise is the fact that Microsoft desktops want to talk to Microsoft servers. Jeremy Allison made this point on the LinuxToday talkbacks for this article, that the reason Exchange gets pulled into companies is because Outlook (part of office, and so bundled everywhere) has to talk to Exchange to do calendaring and scheduling. Exchange 2000, at least, needs to talk to ActiveDirectory. ActiveDirectory and Windows 2000 really, really want to absorb the DNS function (or else you're stuck with either a lot of manual overhead to manage the SRV records, or else you have to enable Dynamic DNS updates with a total lack of security because Microsoft doesn't support any open DDNS standards, they simply use the ActiveDirectory ACL's for security..)

    See how that works? It's like dominoes, and Microsoft is supremely willing to set them up and knock them down.

    Even though we spent 5+ years developing Ganymede, we're getting massive pressure on us to adopt ActiveDirectory because that's what Microsoft says Windows 2000 really needs, and because the protocols that Windows 2000 uses to talk to its directory services are proprietary and non-documented.

    Microsoft is like a cuckoo bird, that lays its eggs in the nests of other birds. The eggs hatch, and out pop the baby cuckoos, who then proceed to shove all the other eggs out of the nest.

  8. Re:Why Linux isn't on the desktop or never will be by Gaijin42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, what I got out of the article on Wired (print version) is that he works extensively with Linux (he worked at RedHat), and thinks it is technically superior. But he thinks that OS wars and flames, and (he specifically mentions) /. Rage are counter productive to the movement.

    He says that if Linux slowly eroded the MS base, it would win. But instead you have guerilla IT departments go through and trash peoples computers, and make linux-ites look like a bunch of freaks.

    He specifically mentions an incident at RedHat where a biz. person had some Excel documents. The documents had some heavy duty macros and whatnot which would not work under any of the linux competitors. She installed Excel. She had an issue with her drivers or whatnot, and when she got the computer back from IT, excel was gone, along with her documents. The IT guy said it was her fault for being a traitor to linux.

    Summary of article : Linux is great, but the long haired freaks are gonna make it lose.

  9. Evangelism, etc. by Alien54 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The thing is that the most effective tool to promote Linux is stuff that works well and delivers the goods. Delivers the goods means delivering what people want. This may be very different from the needs of a programmer, for example.

    This is one thing that MS is still working on after 20 years, with occasional interferance from marketing, and which they occasionally get right. Of course, their marketing department has often shaped what people want, but that is another story.

    If Linux evangelists insult the people they are trying to convert, then people will not convert. If they ram it down the throat of someone, then they object, just like people object against MS.

    Remember, to do better than MS you do not have to be as good as MS. You have to be many times better.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  10. Re:War is over? by EisPick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I disagree. Yes, Microsoft has vanquished its enemies, but it may have more trouble protecting itself from its own greed.

    What happens when Win98, ME and 2000 Workstation (or whatever they were calling it) are no longer for sale? I think consumers' calculus will change when only WinXP and its successors are on the market

    As Mitchell writes, consumers want "reliability, simplicity, access to popular software, and the ability to communicate easily with other users." But in XP these virtues are tangled up with Microsoft's efforts to force its online services down your throat.

    Redirecting all mailto: links to Hotmail instead of the registered mail editor is an obstacle to communicating easily. Forcing customers to download a Java VM does not enhance access to popular software. Forbidding reinstallation of the OS without calling Microsoft and proving that you own it isn't what I'd call simplicity.

    We all know the full list, and we all know that both consumers and CIOs are balking.

    Don't get me wrong, Linux has a long way to go to offer a viable alternative for the average luser. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of people take a second look at MacOS and Linux after tangling with XP.

  11. Article was very flawed by pubjames · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I read the original article (bigger than the online version) and I can only say it was a very flawed piece.

    He started of recounting the story of some jerk tech. admin that deleted Windows and all other files off one of his companies staff laptops and installed linux. He then used this as one of his arguments as to why Linux wasn't going to succeed. How clever is that?

    These are the facts as far as I can see them:

    A new process has come in to the world. That process is called the open source development model. This allows commercial quality software to be developed by diverse entities around the world. These entities can be individuals, public bodies and governments or companies with an interest in the particular piece of software. Each can make a small contribution to a larger project. The software created is often distributed for free.

    Because of this, it is very unlikely that there will ever be an Open Source software company with Microsoft's level of turnover. However, Open Source Software is not dependent upon any particular company for its success and is not reliant on anyone making a particularly great profit from it. More important are the savings that people can make from it.

    The Open Source Development model has only really gained momentum over the last few years. In that time, some projects have demonstrated an increadible rate of development. Although it is true to say that many Open Source project still lag behind their commercial equivalents, the rate of progress of these projects suggests that this won't be the case for long.

    Microsoft makes the majority of its profits selling an office suite and several operating systems.

    It is now trying to change its licensing model to one of rental, rather than one-off payment, because the software is just about mature and there is increasingly little incentive for most businesses and organisations to upgade. The change makes Microsoft software an on-going cost for businesses, even though new releases do not add much in terms of essential new functionality for most busnesses.

    Therefore, Microsoft's core business - the products that make most of its profits - are under threat from a new process. Just as new processes during the industrial revolution completely destroyed certain previously profitable businesses, so will new processes, such as the Open Source Development model, destroy certain types of buiness. Microsoft is likely to be one of those buinesss. In the long term, it is impossible for any business to seriously compete with free equivalent products.

    Arguments like "Linux isn't ready for the desktop", "Dell decided not to ship Linux on the desktop", "What about support?" are all short term issues. Think big picture. Think long term. Think worldwide. Think fundamentals.

    Microsoft is doomed unless it can radically change its business to something completely different, and maintain it current turnover levels, which from where I'm sitting looks like a practically impossible trick to pull off.

    And hey, I'm typing this in IE on Windows 2000, I'm not a Microsoft hater. It's just I think the world is changing and there's not much Microsoft can do about it.

  12. Re:Why Linux isn't on the desktop or never will be by zulux · · Score: 5, Informative

    Were alrady there for some userse - I'm a consultant for a bunch of small businesses, and have been replacing the "front desk" computer operating systems with Mandrake 8.0 in KDE mode and AbiWord. The secretary types love it becuse they can't "break the computer" and they don't loose work. Just make sure your printer is supported with CUPS and away you go. Granted, the Linux desktop can't replace the whole MS-Office desktop, but in actuall use (for the correct type of user) I've had great sucuess with the above.

    --

    Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

  13. Advocacy is killing us by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The simple, most basic fact of Linux on the desktop, is that that great majority of users fit a certain profile:

    1. College student or fairly recent college graduate.
    2. Strongly dislikes Microsoft.

    Now, now, this is a blatant stereotype, but there is truth to it (heck, I thought geeks would hate Star Trek and for being mass market, condescending, and that people _expect_ geeks to like it, but Star Trek threads on Slashdot can get more than a thousand postings).

    Students tend to use computers in fairly simple ways: browsing the web, playing MP3s, writing papers, doing programming assignments, playing games, exploring free software. Now keeping this in mind, when you see such a person zealously proclaim that The Gimp is superior to Photoshop for graphic arts work, you have to stop and wonder. So on the one side you have people with much passion but limited to no experience arguing that an open source program is just as good as a commercial offering. On the other side you have professional graphic artists who put The Gimp and Photoshop side by side and are stunned that they're even bothering which such a comparison.

    The bottom line, for me, is that we should be seeing much less Linux advocacy than we currently do. If I met someone who ran a small business and later found out he used Linux or some open source software for some tangible reasons, then this would be interesting food for thought. But when I see threads like this:

    A: I find it disturbing that a number of popular e-commerce sites don't work under Linux, either because Mozilla doesn't render them properly or because they require Windows-only tech, like ActiveX scripting.
    B: Bah! I don't _need_ to go to sites that that! F**k em!

    Then I realize that "B" isn't someone who uses computers. He's someone who dinks around and has a chip on his shoulder and shouldn't be listened to. Sadly, there's the impression that a majority of Linux users are like B.

  14. What it boils down to... by sterno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are far too many applications companies who have a vested interest in a vendor neutral operating system. They all know that Microsoft has totally taken over the desktop and that they are slowly infiltrating the server market. And since Microsoft likes to bundle applications together, they slowly drive companies like Oracle, Sun, and IBM to the periphery.

    I'm certain that if any of those companies could have Microsoft's dominance of the O/S, they'd jump at it in a heart beat. But since they know that won't happen, having a standard that nobody dominates is a far cry better.

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  15. Go down to the seashore by wirefarm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Go down to the seashore and declare a war against the sea. Bill did that just as the tide began to recede, so it looked as though he was winning. But after a while, you realize that how matter how much you kick at the waves, it has no effect.
    It's a waiting game and we don't have that long to wait...

    Cheers,
    Jim

    --
    -- My Weblog.
    1. Re:Go down to the seashore by Gautama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >Go down to the seashore and declare a war against the sea. Bill did that just as the tide began to recede, so it looked as though he was
      >winning. But after a while, you realize that how matter how much you kick at the waves, it has no effect.
      >It's a waiting game and we don't have that long to wait...

      Very nice. I have to admit that I like your metaphores.

      But,
      you really don't get it, do you?
      Applause for the form aside, you've missed a few key factors in your wishful thinking:

      Windows works. We may not like it, we may despise their business practices, and we may yearn for the desktop revolution, but the fact remains that Windows serves the purposes of the masses.

      Many of the more vocal Linux advocates are condecending and snotty. Not the majority, but by far, the all-to-yappy minority of Linux evangelists I've had to deal with did little more than alienate me.

      Yes, there are plenty of security problems with MS OS's; but remember, no OS is perfect. A system is only as secure as it's allowed to be, and exploits pop up quicker than boils on a whore's bum. If you do think your OS has no flaws, you most likely need to patch like crazy. Nothing with an OS is perfectly secure.

      Waiting game? What are you waiting for, exactly? Linux is not going to replace MS on the desktop ever. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it happening (I'm as disgusted by MS's heavy-handed strategies as the next guy around here.) but given their proprietary file formats and universal hardware support, it ain't gonna happen without some major paradigm shifts.

      Of course, these sentiments are going to get me modded down as "Troll", but I really don't care.
      As an IT worker that deals with both MS and *nix worksations and servers on a regular basis, I think my opinion counts for something.

  16. Unfortunately True ... by LoudMusic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have to admit that about 2/3 through the article I stopped reading, because I've heard it all before, and it's all very true. If I look at my friends around me I see them doing the same thing. A couple of them have removed Windows and installed a sloppy install of Linux on their parents' computers, and a few sysadmin friends that I have have even done the same at work (resulting in nearly getting terminated).

    If the Linux community as a whole would like to see Linux succeed in more than small shop servers and geek workstations, someone is going to have to spread the word that Linux can't be forced on those that don't want it.

    Lets relate it to the Christian movement. What do we call Christians that won't leave us along in elevators and in lines at fast food? Turbo Christian Bible Thumbers. They irritate the crap out of me, AND I'M A CHRISTIAN! They're going about it wrong. Christ didn't bug the crap out of people about "Hey look at me, I'm the son of God, w00t!". No, he meerly lead by example. Geeks can do the same quite easily, and I've seen a few examples.

    Run Linux on your computer, make it rock solid and bad ass. People will notice and want to give it a try, even if it's just surfing the web on your Linux Mozilla browser. Help them, but don't trash talk Microsoft or Apple in the processes. If they ask what you like about Linux (and they will), tell them the possitive things about Linux, but don't *compare* it to anything else. Just say what you like without trash talking something else. You might even want to point out a few of the problems it has, but mention that Linus and Alan are working on those things, *with help from the ENTIRE LINUX COMMUNITY*. Maybe that will light a bulb in their brain that shows them the difference between open source and ... ahem ... other operating systems that we all know have problems, but we have to sit and wait for an individual group to fix (:

    And yes ... Linux in its current incarnation is for the geek community. My Mom and Dad would be so pissed if I took their Windows away. Just about everyone where I work would be outraged if I took Windows/Office away and replaced it with Linux/OpenOffice. Right now it just doesn't get the job done like Windows can. Give it time, all good things come to those who wait. The geek community needs to chill for a little while and let the OS and software get up to 'desktop snuff' before we take on giants like Microsoft.

    ~LoudMusic

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  17. Re:Easy. by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 5, Funny


    Yeah right, like I'm really going to believe that an EE student lives with girls.

    (+2, Funny)