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Road Runner Doesn't Do XP
PerlStalker writes: "Internet News has an article up that mentions, among other things, that Road Runner (owned primarily by AOL/TW) will not support XP. From the article: 'Road Runner, the second-largest cable Internet service provider (ISP) in the nation with more than 1.4 million subscribers, does not support the controversial new operating system (OS) for its customers and will not support its use on the cable network.'" Note that this doesn't stop customers from connecting to Road Runner from XP systems, but until their staff is trained specifically, Road Runner won't help them with technical problems arising from that combination.
So what's the big deal? Us Linux users have been there for quite some time, and we're still alive. :)
Road Runner doesn't "Support" Linux either, but that hasn't stopped me.
I have no clue why this is news. It took months and months for my ISP (SWBell) to "support" Windows 2000, a long time after it was released. Their client software wouldn't work on Win2k, and even though the maker had released a new version of the software, their staff wasn't trained on it. So oddly, if you could find the newer software by tracking down the manufacturer (who gave it away free), it would work fine.
This is really no big deal. Lots of companies won't support XP yet. Even Symantec's pcAnywhere doesn't support XP yet. It's like this with every new operating system, and the way it will probably always be.
What's your damage, Heather?
This journalist spoke with two people at AOL/TW, and he got differing opinions. AOL/TW knows that they will need to support XP in order to keep (and expand) their customer base. I highly doubt that they've sat around for the last 6 months and said, "We're going to publicly say that we won't support XP... That'll stop Microsoft's evil scheme to stay #1 on the Internet!" They just haven't finalized the support docs for their staff yet. Big deal, XP has been out for less than a week. If you go out and upgrade over night, you should expect that some things won't be supported yet.
My opinion is that this journalist just wanted to try and stir up more competition between AOL and MS. This article doesn't say that Roadrunner won't work on XP, it just says that they can't help if an end user has a problem. I've spoken with ISP techs that can't help me out with Windows 2000! Try to get Linux support from 90% of ISPs out there! No chance. This article is not worth the read.
Supported == Known to Work
Not Supported != Does not Work
This is a boring sig
Hrm.. This is a good point. The initial theory I was going with was that if they didn't support it, no one planning to use their service would buy it. Thus making an effective dent, maybe. But, as I think about this more, it will probably go the other direction.
On top of that, RoadRunner has no straight forward reason to 'Battle' Microsoft. The fact that AOL/TW owns them, _SHOULDN'T_ matter. We all know how well that works out =P. But really, what would AOL/TW be battling.. MSN Services? That probably wouldn't do them any good. Especially when their current customers that upgrade to XP would require support, not get it and possibly leave.
To end my ranting here... Upon re-consideration of the idea, I agree with you.
Can all fish swim?
I know that most of the /. types will cringe at this suggestion, but thats why you have a shitty box running win98 sitting around. All that is on it is a base install and the client software given to you by the DSL company (or cable or whatever). Then when you have a problem you plug in this "reference" machine and see what it does. If the problem is with the service the machine won't connect and Tech support will have no choice but to help you. Its what I do and I run all sorts of wierd OS's at home that my DSL company doesn't support and moreover says won't work on thier service.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
Since they say the wont help you with a problem if you are running XP, I have to ask...what happens if its THEIR problem.
/renew?"
When I moved into my house last year, I got road runner installed. When the install tech set it up, everything worked fine right off the bat, but he said (since I used the self install option) I would still need to call their tech support and register the serial # and Mac Address of the modem and/or my NIC (cant remember which).
That night I call up their tech support give them the info, they "put it into the computer", and say thank you very much. Everything is fine and dandy.
A day and a half later, suddendly my connection stops working. The modem has a block synch light (so its not the physical cabling), but I cant get any DHCP info (so I have no IP...not quite gonna work very well on the net). After playing around with my system I was sure it wasnt me, so I called them up. I got some tech support idiot who insists its my machine. I tell him everything has been fine and I double checked and I'm positive its their problem, but he doesnt believe me.
him: "Can you do an ipconfig
me: "I already did that, but sure...nope dont work"
him: "can you unplug the modem fo 60 seconds?"
me: "Already did that for 5 minutes, but Ill do it again....nope dont work?
After going through a bunch of this type of crap, changing settings, disabling internet connection sharing (which he ASSURED me was the reason I wasnt getting a connection, even though it had worked for more than a day), he finally wants me to uninstall and reinstall my TCPIP driver/NIC drivers.
him: "You are gonna need your windows CD for this. do you have it handy?"
me: "Well, I have it, but I just moved into my house 2 weeks ago and its buried somewhere in a box."
him: "Well can you go look for it?"
me: "Look, Im really pretty sure this problem is on your end"
him: "can you please look for it...Ill wait"
so off I go looking. 5 minutes later I have the CD, go through a bunch of crap with him. finally
me: "nope, dont work"
him: "well, now Im gonna need you to..."
at this point, Ive been talking to this idiot for 45 minutes, continually telling him the problem is on their end. Finally, I reach my limit and YELL at the guy that its their problem.
him: "please hold......(2 minutes later)....ok, Im gonna transfer you to another tech now and he will be able to help you:
When I get this new tech, I tell him the problem and why I think its on their end. So he pulls up my info
tech2: "I dont have any info on your NIC or modem"
me: "I called it in 2 days ago and they entered it"
tech2: "well its not there. Can I have it again please?"
me: "ok here it is....."
tech2: "hmmm, thats funny. your modem is still registered at the previous address."
I basicly spend an hour on the phone trying to convince them its their problem, and I was right. When their tech said he took/entered my info a few days back, he lied. After getting tech 2, I had service restored and was off the phone in 5 minutes. However, what if I had an unsupported OS. What would have happened? It was their fault, but they would have been unable to diagnose the problem and assumed it was my fault.
I've done ISP support, so I can understand where they are comming from. For the ISP to support it they need at least one copy of the OS and for each person in their tech support center to spend time on it. It's hard to support at first, though most techs will at least try (at least the better ones will.)
I also see a lot of people saying how ISPs don't support *nix. There's good reason for that. There's a lot more involved in getting a *nix box set up to do dial-up than there is with other OS's. Time is money. The tech needs to get the call over as quickly as possible, and preferably in one call. That's incredibly difficult with *nix. You also have the problem of different kernel versions and modules that need to be in place, different software packages and versions, and a user (and tech) who actually can find all the files and know what needs to go in them. Mac and Win* are fairly simple, there is at least a similar interface between the various versions. That is nowhere near true with *nix. We handled *nix calls by saying "I can't help you, but here's the information you need. If you don't know where the info goes, check the HOWTO's."
Not only is configuration a problem with *nix, but so is troubleshooting. Having a user run around their system, checking files (in different places for different distro's and configuration setups) for things, having them go root for some things, that's beyond what most tech support people are able or willing to do. Do you want to lead someone on a chase through their system as root, changing various files, checking their kernel config, software config, and various other options, all over the phone?
Mac is easy, once you know how to do it. But, again, the techs need access to a Mac. In our call center we had one that we could use. Most of the tech's, though, couldn't answer Mac questions. When all they know and use is Windows, it's hard to teach them all the troubleshooting for another OS. There were a few of us who knew Mac's networking inside and out, and we were the ones who always took the calls.
Also, look at training costs involved. It's quick and easy to train someone to troubleshoot/config Windows. But teaching people *nix so that they can troubleshoot those problems is expensive and time consuming. Because of this, it becomes policy within a company not to support certain things. Mac, Win3.1 (yes, it is still in use), *nix, etc. are just too much for a company to try to handle. They stick with what is easy and is on a majority of the desktops. That's simply good business sense. Train other people to do more when you can, but you can never support everything and shouldn't try, either.
As I saw pointed out by someone else, it will be supported, but in a few months. We didn't support Win2k at first, but eventually we did. That involved me making a troubleshooting manual for it and distributing it. That kind of thing takes time, so it will happen, but it could be a few months.
"All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening."
- Alexandar Woolcot
SO what's the big deal?
"Our staff is not trained on XP yet, so we can't offer support yet".
Fair enough
in order to make sure that your connection is working they must be able to ping your computer. They make you take it down so that they can make sure that there is a connection to your modem and then to your computer (there are two seperate IPs, a local for the modem and a general one for the computer).
It's just part of the system. If you don't take it down that's fine for the most part but it isn't going to make a big difference if you do for just a moment while they run the test.
Only the fact that this relates to XP keeps it from being completely irrelevant (and it's still not relevant). Also Road Runner is being very irresponsible in publishing their opinion about an OS they've admitted to barely touching.
Still think this is news? OK.. Then does Road Runner support BeOS, *BSD, etc? I very much doubt it. But can customers still use those OS'es in using their service? I very much think so. All it takes is a DHCP client and the network card they give you (to which you're typically tied to the MAC address and usually can not swap out; at least in my case that's true). But did Road Runner come forward with a bold announcement about not supporting those? Nope.
As usual, the early adopters will respond with a quiet sigh of tolerance and do whatever the hell they feel like doing anyway.
Good grief...
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Yo! How about Road Runner paying their employees more than $5.50/hr! Then they might be motivated enough to learn the XP OS themselves so that when Xmas hits and all those new XP boxes get sold, a customer can actually use Road Runner instead of possibly looking at alternatives (dsl?).
Sheesh, you're only as good as your customer support.
Now, there may be some hidden agenda behind not officially supporting XP, but why bother? Just let the calls trickle in, work it normally...let the call engineer learn as he goes - assuming you don't have monkies at the support center, you'll be ok, and you may pick up a couple of extra customers to boot!!
No wonder these people are bankrupt.
Obviously you cant read, coz the article says they wont SUPPORT XP, not that it doesnt run....
Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
If you call up the call centre with Windows XP you don't really know if your going to get support or not.
...to best of my ability...
There are different levels of ability in the call centre, you might even get someone who might just flat out and say "We don't support XP, good bye."
Perhaps because they are not technically inclined, or perhaps because they don;'t want to waist the time.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Why is this news on Slashdot? It's not unusual for a help desk, whether it's Internet based or any other, to support an OS soon after release.
/. ? it's definately not newsworthy. I've also noticed that most of those articles and duplicate articles are posted by timothy. Is this a trend? Hmmmmm
I would say it would be more unusual for a help desk to actually support an OS within even a couple of months of release.
A help desk I used to work for only started to officially support Win2000 6 months ago (which is what, 2 years after release?). They didn't start supporting NT until 98 or so.
Again, I ask, why is this story even on
What's the next news headline? CmdrTaco eats at KFC?
It's better to burn out than to fade away
And Qwest (being sued) has known about xp for a long time too. 260,000 customers of theirs have the "intel series" of modems, which also do not work with WIN XP as of yet. Intel, being the lazy fucks that they are, haven't written the drivers for the 2200 / 3200 yet. I don't blame them, a 2100 goes on ebay for a whopping five bucks, but manufacturers that dont write drivers for old hardware really, really piss me off.
Ironically, the intel 3200 does not work (period, it's not unsupported, it simply doesn't work) with VIA chipsets, but thats a conspiracy theory for another day.
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