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The Birds and the Boats
siimat writes: "Wow, a bat-winged sailboat! Richard Dryden has produced
"a variable geometry mast and sail that can adapt intelligently to changing wind conditions, and fold away conveniently after use without the need to dismantle.
The inspiration has come from the remarkable wings of bats and birds."
Too bad you won't be able to buy one until later this year..."
You'd think this kind of thinking would be more widespread - I mean, various animals have been doing stuff we attempt to copy for hundreds of thousands of years, but instead of copying from them, we try to reinvent the wheel (probably with four corners, so it'll store neatly in containers) time and time again.
It's not like the animal kingdom has lawyers that'll take inventors to court for infringement.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Without a centerboard or keel, my guess is that dinghy version would be difficult but not impossible to take upwind. The windsurfing-style universal joint would allow one to rotate the sail fore and aft, which would steer the boat upwind or downwind. But even steering upwind there would be slippage downwind without a keel. A good aerodynamic sail, which this would appear to be, could overcome (outweigh) the slippage. But a keel would help, and dinghy without a keel could be frustrating.
I found that design uncannyingly similar to a da Vinci drawing. Does anyone else notice the similarities?
grep >= ! == $your
The bat wing sail is a pretty decent idea, to bad the web page sucks.
--- Think of it as evolution in action ---
"To the Bat-yacht, Robin!"
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Given how much "stretch" the fabric would have to have in order for the sail to keep half decent shape... this one is "not going to fly".... A far better example of efficiency are the wing sails used in Little America's Cup Catamarans.
.. I'll be nice.. by and large their efforts are along the lines of hull materials and shapes... as well as trying to get the least stretch in sail cloth by new materials... roller reefing is about to catch on big time for the mainsail (on the boom please and pray not in the mast)...
Sail fabric needs to have minimal "give" in order to effectively translate the force derived from the wind... into a thrust vector. I see no way to adjust how much sag/bag is in this sail... and if it's a stretchable fabric... then you're going to loose much of your efficiency...
Looks cute... but the new focus for sailboards are kites... (Robby Naish is now only playing with kites)... the wind vector is both stronger and more consistent as you get off the surface and get the sail higher up... as to multihulls... the sails are getting to have higher and higher aspect ratio sails... more like the wing sails of the previously mentioned Little Americas Cup boats... and the vast monohull community... they're still so in love with wood... no
This is a cute experiment... but it is a evolutional dead end....
Quick Robin! To the BatBoat! ;)
-- Dan
I looked for "Richard Dryden" on Google but all I got were soccer sites. His name seems vaguely familiar... something to do with NASA?
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
I heard of this a long time ago... the key thing about this design is that although it is very adaptable, easy to use, and stable, those same qualities come at a cost to performance. For speed, you gotta go with another design.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
"We cannot direct the wind, But we can adjust our sails..."
hey, wouldn't it be easier to control weather with a few of those nasa sattelites?
so we get another email address and stop coming here, .. not a big deal anyway
This new sail design reminded me of something that I once saw in a book of sail design.
In the 1920's a German designer started designing sailing ships that used a rotating sail pillar as a mast rather than a sheet of material. Here's a link to a page that describes not only the concept but a a way to put together a modern version.
I always figured this was a wonderful idea because this way I wouldn't have to put down my beer when the person on the wheel called out a turn while tacking. I mean for heaven's sake - let's keep in mind the real point to recreational sailing. Grin.
In illa quae ultra sunt
Sorry, folks, but as a sailor, I've gotta tell you that this bat will never fly. A big, big part of the romance of sailing is the beauty of the sailboats. Spend enough time around sailors, and you'll get to know the various boat designers and be able to recognize their work from afar.
Anything with this hideous-looking contraption on board is going to be shunned at the local yacht club, and that's where the real decisions are made. Whether you agree with the rationale or not, most sailboat buyers are going to live with their purchase for a decade or more, and they want their boat to be a representation of their own personality. Boats are purchased with 30-year loans - think about that for a second. Do you really, really want a boat ahead of its time? Nope, almost everybody wants timeless classics, gorgeous boats with clean lines.
Take a look at any marina, and you'll see what I mean. This is an industry where teak is still preferred over carbon fiber, where people talk about canvas sails, and where tradition dictates that you never change the name of a boat. A lot of people still don't even accept catamarans as real sailboats, let alone contraptions with folding bat-like sails.
What's your damage, Heather?
Boats, they always sink!
The Unanonymous Coward
As a dinghy sailor, the concept of changing the sail shape seems rather backwards to me. Generally, you want a rather loose, billowy sail in light to medium winds, because this produces a more rounded airfoil, which produces more lift. In heavy winds, you stretch the sails out flatter, because a more rounded airfoil will overpower you and pull you over. By this logic, the mast should be more erect in heavy winds (pulling the sail flatter) and should be pulled downwards in lighter winds (allowing the sail to fill more).
...the average /. reader actually trying to do something involving boats, water, and the real world. Man, the traffic on this site will go WAY down once the drownings begin...
How about....Dingbat. Ya baby...yaaaa
Another thing is the sail needs to be cut correctly because in a situation in which one increases the bend of the mast during a heavy air condition could lead to increased fullness, which is the opposite of what one wants in heavy air. The Star main is shaped such that when the mast is bent back, most/all tension on the upper backstay. the main is "flat". As one shifts the tension from the upper to the lower, the sail is pulled in a way that increase the fullness of the main, which is better in light wind conditions. But I'm sure Mr. Dryden has thought of this.
"And now you shall learn the secret of boot to the head"
...is not as strong as you think.
Otherwise, we'd all be sailing gaff cutters. The gaff rig is *much* prettier than a bermudan. Unfortunately, it's less efficient, more expensive and takes a lot more effort to use.
In the fast dinghy/sailboard arena, this could sell *because* it's new and unusual. For Eris' sake, sailboarders have been known to use dayglo pink sailcloth.
I'm sticking with my high-aspect fractional rig while the class rules require it...
The only advantage this design offers is that you can increase or reduce your sail area (reefing, we call it), quickly.
Well, that's nice and all, but frankly, you don't NEED to reef a sail all that often.
This looks to me like the kind of thing someone who's not a sailor would have designed.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You produce a witty remark and post it on Slashdot under the Anonymous Coward pseudonym. It is summarily ignored or possibly moderated down to -1 as I am sure that this post will be.
But later, one of the Slashdot members posts virtually the same message(#2516027), after probably reading yours, and it is moderated to +5 Funny.
Yours wasn't at all funny or worthy of being on Slashdot because you posted as AC. His was hilarious, even though it was the same, because he is one of the brethren.
If memory serves me, the improvement gained by reducing the H2O drag offset the loss of suspending the bayload from the kite. Working models seem to have been built (see aerohydrofoil ).
State of the art sail technology... well i hope... and yes, thy put it on plywood. Comon guys, a mirror?!
Genius, Genius. Although having said that i cant for the life of me think of any better alternatives ;-)
Oh and BTW the *real* sailing capital of the word (for dingies at least) is one of the fantastic clubs in the UK, such as Weymouth, Hayling or Grapham.... want proof? check the olympics