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ICANN Mulls Poll Taxes, Representation
Cutriss writes: "The ICANN seems to be thinking about giving in to public demands. According to this article on Wired.com mentions that ICANN is considering allowing domain owners to elect their board of directors. It's a step in the right direction. I wonder if domain owners could collaborate and cast a collective vote of no confidence, absolving ICANN of its responsibilities..." I wouldn't call it a step in the right direction since each revision to ICANN's Board involves less individual representation and more corporate representatives. There's another story with some quotes from Karl Auerbach. The At-Large study that we talked about earlier has now been released in its final form. If you don't like the way ICANN is going, please consider attending their meetings. Next one is in Los Angeles next week.
They are still valid, even though you may not agree with me
Mikael
Pawlo.com
Frankly having people vote who have internet domains isn't all that much better than anyone who has an email address. I personally own nearly six or so domains (this is not even including the ones that I am listed at a technical contact for due to my web development work). This also shuts out a lot more people that would other-wise be able to vote, I can name several people who probably would choose to vote yet this will cut them out.
Unfortunately there is no good way to solve the problem of one person voting multiple times. There are tons of people with hundreds of domains under their belts. Granted while it is easier to get e-mail addresses than it is domains the elections could still be off balanced by a single person with many domain names. Perhaps an even better solution would be allowing one vote per IP address or something along the lines of that. Again, it wouldn't be perfect or promise that only one vote per person is counted. It's something to think about. If anybody has any other ideas for solutions, I'd like to hear about them. It seems like something I'd be interested in researching and refining.
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
...considering allowing domain owners to elect their board of directors.
I wonder, if you own 20 domains do you get 20 votes? That would be in keeping with ICANN's previous actions.
rooooar
Poll taxes, reading tests, and age limits?
You can have a democracy of special interests, a democracy of thieves, a democracy of madmen, or whatever.
If you think your viewpoint is relevent and important, then you should do something.
In the People are Lazy theory, People tend to do only those things that are utterly important to them. This allows more ambitious folks a free hand.
This might not been in your best interest.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
The fact is that many companies have many tens, sometimes as many as hundereds of domain names. Why should they get that many votes? Should I get to vote on the BOD of McDonalds if I happen to eat several hambergers every day?
The people running an organization like ICANN should be impartial, not people who have power becuase of how many domain names they happen to be squatting.
Anyone who posts about bad moderation are themselves off-topic and should be moderated accordingly.
How is that an improvment???
Well, I'm sure I can vote for a lot of people here when I say that the 'owners' of the .CX TLD will most certainly be voted out by at least 99% of their customers.
.CX domain expires - if DOTCX don't have any registrars, you loose your domain! *poof* and are unable to re-register it or continue to pay your annual subscription as there is noone available to take your cash.
.CX domain which was due to expire in May this year, is still active and I have not been contacted either way for renewal or notifications of expiry. I suppose that's good but still leaves this huge shadow of doubt.
.CX fiasco, but then you run into many more complicated situations would could take _even longer_ to resolve. It's hard enough to resolve issues with ICANN and it's members, let alone with the rest of the world polling away...
Back in the old days when Planet3 used to run this TLD, things were great. Yeah sure, you may call them a little bit slack at a professional business level (email favours, quick fixes etc.) but their management console was very simply to use and didn't hinder the user in any way. Great.
But then the wonderful people who reside on Christmas Island (small island near Australia I believe) decided they wanted their TLD back in their control and pretty much dismissed Planet3 of any association.
That's when it all went wrong. DOTCX (or whatever they named themselves) had no clue about managing a TLD. How on earth did this get pass ICANN? Why did the decision get made at ICANN to allow these idiots to have control of a well establish, popular TLD.. God knows..
I'm not too sure of the current status - The last time I looked, DOTCX were still looking for registrars to sell their domains and manage DNS, from the prerequisits I noticed on their site, they still probably don't have anyone..
One of the more frustrating issues from this complete cock-up from ICANN was that when your current
Fortunately, either through incompetance of good-will, my
So, what can ICANN do about it? Make more decisions like this? The idea of domain users voting for certain things sounds like a good idea, surely it could help avoid situations like the
My 2 quid.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
Nitpick: Michel's key concern was that the new proposal would prevent Internet users who don't own a website from having a vote in ICANN
Doesn't it give you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that ICANN board members see domains and websites as the same thing?
Then the only solution is to cast a diferent internet... with diferent set of top level servers...
Ultimately, the problem is that ICANN is getting too cozy with the corporations that dominate the web.
As mentioned in the article, the problem with the last "public" election was that it suffered from massive fraud by people opening throwaway email accounts to vote with.
Certainly a "one domain = one vote" scheme would heavily favor corporations which regularly buy blocks of domains to protect their trademark turf.
However, even a "one domain owner = one vote" scheme would be unfair to the public. While they might be limited to a single vote for the majority of their domains, only big corporations (think M$) have the money to rig the elections by purchasing domains through shell organizations (think The Association for Competitive Technology).
At least when the primary mechanism for ICANN voting fraud was free, the public could still compete with the corporations.
- How well you entertained the current ICANN board members when they visited your town or place of business
- How many of the children of the board members you offered free scholarships
- How many free vacations, car rentals, plane fares, etc you offered to the current board members.
After decades of decadence, we can even demand that they reform. Just like the IOC!Seriously, anyone can put a root server up. The only problem is propigating the list of root servers to everyone and you could do that with multicast or something. It shouldn't be a hard problem to solve, people.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
ICANN is only relavent as long as everybody uses their DNS. I don't understand why somebody with some moral authority in the IT world doesn't just set up an alternative. I know there are in fact several alternatives, but these are private companies that nobody has heard about.
So who could do it? The IETF and the ACM come to mind. There are probably a few others.
Note that you don't have to switch all at once, you can still fall back to legacy ICANN domains if the new domain system doesn't find a match.
My "ultimate" domain name scheme would allow anything as a .tld (although you could set up a few with restricted access, perhaps '.trademark' or something like that). That way, for example, IBM could use "buy.ibm", while somebody who doesn't like IBM could use "dontbuy.ibm". There would be no way to purchase all the domains under a .tld.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Of course it has always been problematic to count votes from a general, world-wide population. An organization with a public role doesn't necessarily need a one-person-one-vote sort of democracy to be accountable. But when the people who try to hold ICANN accountable have been rigorously excluded from the beginning (breaking through only occasionally such as in the election of Auerbach), we have to fight against removing the few processes that may promote accountability.
We should just forge our own root servers.
Threatening a corporation is a very serious crime. They have a right to profit. You sir are a terrorist.
What I don't get, is that when I signed up for At Large membership, I think I remember that there was a snail mail step, where I received some code thingie on a physical piece of paper. Doesn't that limit the fraud to people with multiple physical snailmail addresses? That's still do-able, but a much bigger pain-in-the-ass than setting up multiple email accounts.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
are likely not to know enough about them.
It is my logical belief (through reasoned findings) that they, along with the United States Department of Commerce and the United Nations World Intellectual Property Organization, are all corrupt.
Please visit WIPO.org.uk to find out why.
OpenNIC is a user owned, international Network Information Center alternative to the
traditional Top-Level Domain registries. OpenNIC was started in 2000 as a reaction to the growing concern about the lack of democratic control within the ICANN. The best thing you can do to help this initiative is to point your root-nameserver(s) and/or your resolving configuration to the OpenNIC nameservers. You'll still be able to resolve all the traditional ICANN TLD's, but you'll also have access to the new TLD's. Also check out this FAQ document.
i want tot lalk to you about soemthing very very imrportant today its about "YOURE RIGHTS ONLINE"!!! and stuff.
:) :) :) it maeks me happy!!! and that si a good thign. and then i want to say that there are sitll very improtant stuff to maek happen!!! like forinstance "Statuephile Rights"!
fisrt of all i want to say thakn u for listning
for years we statuphiles have been rediquled, haeted, scorned and stuff. not anymore were going to fight bac! from now on we will demadn that our voice is hurd and deamnd equal consideration!!! so here me out!!!
what i demand is lunix support for statuephiles!!! we want "petrification" support in the korenel!!! for to many years we have goen unheard but not anymore we will rallie for "NATALIE PORTMAN NAKEED AND PETRIFIED!!!""
thank yuo.
This also shuts out a lot more people that would other-wise be able to vote, I can name several people who probably would choose to vote yet this will cut them out.
Of course they COULD buy a domain registration and vote. It used to be $100/reg, but it's much lower now...
But perhaps that's what's intended. Can you IMAGINE the revenue for the registrars if there's ever an important and closely-split issue coming up and BOTH sides decide to buy votes?
(And can you imagine a Beo... naw!)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
In the People are Lazy theory, People tend to do only those things that are utterly important to them. This allows more ambitious folks a free hand.
But there is a COST to participating in a democracy: Eyeball time.
You only have so much life. If you spend it all in political wrangling over the rules of living it you don't have any left to enjoy. (Unless your favorite passtime is policical wrangling, of course.)
This is why there are Republics: So people can chose representatives they trust to spend the time coming up with a ruleset.
It's also part of why Anarchists and Nihilists simply ignore or work around those who "claim to make rules".
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
These bozos are really pushin' it. Dig this: The only people with a "stake" (fucking horrible PC bullshit word) in the internet are the Corps and those who "own domains". What a load of fertilizer...
and this: "The nine-member At-Large Membership Study Committee, created by the ICANN board earlier this year, recommends reducing at-large representation from one-half to one-third of the board seats.
In addition, individuals wishing to help select representatives would have to pay unspecified annual membership fees and own domain names, which typically cost about $30 a year.
``It's just utterly laughable,'' said Karl Auerbach, a current at-large board member.
Auerbach said he would consider resigning if the report is adopted. ``I would seriously question my desire to remain associated with a group that just slapped the Internet community in the face,'' he said."
And then -
"Supporters of the at-large reduction believe it's important to have board members who are knowledgeable about the technical issues surrounding the Internet."
What, Like Karl, Esther, et al. don't?
I smell Vint Cerf...
"...they may harpoon us, but they ain't gonna pick us up on no radar screen!"
First of all I have to say I coudln't find where the poll tax bit was mention, except in the previous /. article. But im assuming that the domain registration fees are the tax.
:) ) but I would say make a cooperative system of ISP, with many cooperatives each with a rootserver. Either that or a system where governments are in control, but that could come under abuse if the government isn't democratic). The cooperative assigns each ISP votes, and the ISP pays for access to the server. The ISP can then absorbs the fee and the customer doesn't get a vote (but the ISP does), or their may be a slight increase (£1/$1) which gets each customer a vote in a subject where the ISP is their representative (the ISP would have to be obliged to vote what their constituents voted for).
.ext for external) could be created to access existing stuff.
I can't actually figure out how ICANN will get the poll tax. This is because it isn't (in my eyes) democratic - not everyone gets a say, so why should they have to pay tax. For the domain holders paying tax on top of the fee (if that's what was implied) is a bit steep, and will only ensure the rich get a say in "democracy". And the 'ordinary' net users will not have a say at all. It's not really fair at all as they aren't represented, and the board of ICANN seems very dictatorial. I can't see how they will be able to get everyone to pay taxes. But do 'ordinary' users need a say, or even care about how the web is run?
I can now here everyone say "dump ICANN, lets set up our own rootservers". The problem is that many people say this, but there does not seem the will to do such a thing. You would either join another root (e.g. new.net) or you make your own. The problem with new.net is that it still isn't democratic (being a company) so when it is large and sprawling everyone will complain about them instead of ICANN.
Setting up your own root server is too much hard work. Who will fund it? (the people - but what if they don't want to? the web is free, right?) I take it the software is free but the resources for it, incl. the hardware, electricity and bandwidth have to be paid for, by the users. I would imagine most people wouldn't pay at all for something they don't understand or care about. I mean the servers only hold the records of domain owners, and if you're not one, why make the effort to care.
How do you ensure democracy? I'm not a expert on these things ( or anything else
Different cooperatives could be responsible for different TLD's. Users could only access these TLDs (this is the downside - could invalidate a lot of existing stuff) or TLD's from other cooperatives where there is some sort of reciprocal agreement between them. This would solve the problem of identical TLDs between cooperatives. The root servers would be paid for and it would be a democratic way to ensure users get a say (if they join the right ISP). Some existing content might be inaccesible, but a special TLD (e.g.
This would give users control. The problem is setting up such a system, and persuading people to move to it.
I know that this is a bit of a rant, but its an idea of how change could occur to make things more democratic. I don't even know how much it actually costs to run a root server, but it must be quite a large amount. There could be flaws in the above system that i can't see but I thought a suggestion would be good since everyone seems to moan about ICANN all the time.
Tone down the website a bit. Make reasoned, rational arguments and lay off the silly imagery. It's childish and nobody with any credibility whatsoever will take you seriously. Add some structure to it. Get rid of the huge, goofy fonts. If you clean it up, it might be something that I would recommend to others.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Your friend Alex has not proven his Eternal Life Device to work - has he?
The solution to problem of trademark conflicts with domain names can be demonstably proved - can it not?
Incidently, I never claimed to have come up with the solution - it was quite obvious to the authorities from the start.
So - I am not claiming to be of intellectual level greater than your buddy Alex - or the greats, Edison - Tesla - Einstein.
My IQ is average(ish) actually.
I just state the obvious.
The United States Department of Commerce and the United Nations World Intellectual Property Organization and ICANN know the solution to trademark problems on the Internet.
Please visit WIPO.org.uk.
Not entirely sure what the big deal with ICANN is anyway. Since their control is only "virtual" and the Internet really does not rely on their existance. In fact, we can do just as well without them. They talk about how there needs to be control for TLDs, etc. But, I say WTF?, I can create my own TLD and tell a bunch of people to use.
Just setup named, and you can create any stupid name that exists. Albeit only those few people you tell will know.
Even better, Click Here and Here.
Yeah it still costs $$$ to register a domain, but your choices are much wider and if everyone sets this up, then ICANN doesn't mean crap anymore.
Quit your whining and do something about it. Going to those meetings ain't gonna do jack. Because corporate people don't give a crap about you. Just go behind their backs and use your own TLDs!!!!!!!!
I'm perplexed over the issues with both ICANN and the W3C seemingly bending over and offering up their hindparts to commercial concerns. People rail, bitch and moan about this sorry state of affairs, acting all the while like something needs to be done to reform these organizations in order to 'repair' the damage they've done/are about to do in the process of whoring themselves out.
The solution is rather simple: ignore them and set up an open domain name scheme and http protocol immune from the efforts of these corporate sluts to sell off chunks of the internet. I've suggested this before and the primary objection is that 'most people' won't use the new http protocol or DNS system. I say, so what?
Yeah, that's right: so what? Most of the current DNS scheme is completely tied up by commercial interests warring over trademarks or anything remotely approaching a trademark, while the W3C is thinking of incorporating technology that requires royalties. I'd hazard to say that more than 99% of the web is utterly useless as it is, so an alternative system with a reputation of *not* being friendly to business and not being cluttered with endless amounts of porn or single-page geocities/yahoo home-brew pages is, I think, a *good* thing. Who gives a shit if the average Joe doesn't visit your site? If you aren't a business you're looking to have savvy folks with a keen personal interest in what you have to offer visiting, aren't you?
I'd use an alternative system for both items in a heartbeat, assuming it's completely open-sourced and GPL'd (to avoid another W3C or ICANN popping up). I'd wager that many scientific and academic interests would as well to avoid the 'clutter' of the regular web and to get domain names that aren't already handed out to business and squatters. Which means that when I use this alternate web it might be much easier to find something of practical value - and without goddamned adverts and popups! Tell me how this isn't a good thing.
I say let's stop bitching and start planning an alternative. Ignore the W3C and ICANN and just go our own way. What can they possibly do to stop us?
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
There is a very reasonable alternative to that awful ALSC report:
http://www.naisproject.org/report/final
But unless there is a very strong outcry against the ALSC report, the NAIS report has a peanut's chance in a zoo of being adopted by the majority of ICANN's board of directors.
By-the-way, if you are in LA for the ICANN meeting next week, make sure you preregister. Paranoia has struck deep and they aren't letting in anyone who hasn't preregistered.