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Andromeda To Become Less Complex?
Prehensile Plant writes "After 7 years of Voyager and now the godawful Enterprise, the guy responsible for everything good about Deep Space Nine has just been sacked from the show he developed. Robert Hewitt Wolfe has parted company with the last bastion of scifi for people with half a brain - Andromeda. Wolfe said: "Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters. Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory." Slipstream has the full scoop.
About the only thing objectionable about Enterprise thus far has been the contrivance of the distrust between Vulcans and Humans. It's as if the writers simply wanted to invert tradition for the pure hell of it.
Other than that it has been somewhat entertaining.
Actually, I like History Channel myself.
:-(
The changes to the Enterprise series shows that too many TV producers for the major over-air networks are dumbing down their shows unneccessarily.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
After 7 years of Voyager and now the godawful Enterprise,
In the immortal words of Bart Simpson:Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you have to complain? ...
They're giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for
free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe
them.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
...of wanting less continuity. Too much continuity does make it hard for new viewers to get into. I have never watched Babylon 5, for the sole reason that I would like to watch it from start to finish in the correct order, which is virtually impossible now that I missed its heyday (no one runs it any more and it's far to large to rent, even if it was available). Having less (not no) continuity would allow people to pay close attention to every episode if they wanted to , but not get totally confused by missing a show or two. The X-files actually did this pretty well (for a while).
Translation:
"Despite the fact that the average Sci Fi viewer is ten times more intelligent than the average soap opera viewer, we didn't think they'd be smart enough to follow a complex story line. Also, it doesn't make a difference if the episodes are bad, just as long as more people watch them. Only Star Trek geeks have pride in their work."
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
All the strange new worlds have been discovered. They should concentrate the show on the wars with the Klingons, Romulans and conflicts with other species. After more than 10 seasons of strange new worlds what else is left? How many more humanoid type races can the make up artists think up? All the alien races on star trek are very simplistic and concentrate on one quality of humanity. By now I think they are out of qualities and should have the human race covered.
I liked the pilot, but all the other episodes are hardly original and even kind of boring. Perfect example is a few weeks ago when they went to the planet colonized 80 years ago that got irradiated and the humans now live underground. They should fire the writers. It sounded so stupid trying to invent a new dialect for those people and making it sound like bad Shakespeare.
There's always Farscape and Lexx.
Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory.
isn't that what sitcoms are for?.....SCiFi is for smart people, not for the retard who watched "Jerry" or the pop culture people who watch "will and grace" or "Survivor"
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I like this show. It was interesting, plus I like the fact that not all the aliens have funny ridges on their nose.
However, they need to find a damn timeslot for it and keep it there. I haven't seen the show for quite a while because it seemed every week it was on at a different time, or pre-empted.
Nice way to develop viewers.
And yes...I know my problems would be solved if I could convince my wife of the benefits of a Tivo!
They've been paid for their time, and paid well. And if they choose to cynically exploit their fans by airing drek like Enterprise or the most of the last couple episodes of The Simpsons, that's all the right to complain I need.
I dunno if any of you have been watching Earth: Final Conflict, but this last season of its has been sucking tremendous ass.
At the very least we have Stargate SG-1 to entertain us? The entire show is only about continuity!
On the other hand, remember that whole Tabasco fiasco with Roswell? I don't watch Roswell, but there was some massive campaign to keep the show from being cancelled, maybe something like that can be done to prevent this loss of what makes Andromeda cool?
[o]_O
Sci-Fi (http://www.scifi.com/babylon5/) has been running Babylon 5 episodes (and the movies, and the 13 episodes of the follow up series Crusade on occasion) in order for over a year now. I missed it during the original run, but have since seen the vast majority of the show during this new run.
Moreover, they funded a new B5 movie which will air in January, B5: Legend of the Rangers (http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers).
:wq
As far as I'm concerned, no one can argue with the fact that, at the very least, Enterprise is well-acted. I personally like it. But 'Andromeda'!? That is the most idiotic show I've ever seen. I liked Deep Space Nine, and I only now realized that someone from it is writing for Andromeda; he must've suffered massive head injuries. The entire cast looks like they were ripped out of a Gap commercial to play in this 'trendy, fashionable, sci-fi show'. Kevin Sorbo is a joke. The only sci-fi show he should be in should be one where he makes fun of himself constantly as a comedic, egomaniacal captain. And the acting all around is just horrible. If the requirements for becoming an astronaut included starring in Calvin Klein underwear ads it might be a tiny bit easier to suspend disbelief and watch an entire episode. Blech.
It's sad that producers have such a low opinion of viewers these days, that they choose to dumb down otherwise intentionally texdured and compled material. Gene Rodenbury would be rolling over in his grave if his ashes weren't floating in space.
The scary thing is the producers might be right. The steps probably will improve ratings for the show, which is a pathetic comentary on television audiances.
Also, I periodically watched 'Earth: Final Conflict' but this season the producers decided to trash the plot arc and introduce an episodic action driven cookie-cutter plot strategy. There really isn't any good Sci-Fi out there, except perhaps Stargate-SG1 and The Outer Limits.
On the other hand, since none of us are actively producing television series, we don't really have much of a right to complain. Some may say that producers should listen to us because we, the audience, are the 'customers' and are always right, but certainly the changes being made to these shows are based of viewer feedback and focus groups, with the intent to improve ovarall ratings and thus proffit.
Perhaps the programming via subscription model that as tried several times a few years back, needs to be applied to Sci-Fi series. I havn't heard much about this model ($19.95 per season per viewer) recently which leads me to believe the original attempts ere spectacular failures, but perhaps with the more dedicated audiences of Sci-Fi, it would work better.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
I think Enterprise rocks. DS9 was my favorite Star Trek series, and Enterprise is climbing rapidly.
What I especially like about Enterprise is that it's interesting watching the humans do their thing while being the "clueless newbies" on the block.
I also particularly like the way they've handled the Vulcans. It really shows how one dimensional the Vulcans have been in previous episodes. At their best, they are cool toward humans, and at their worse (e.g., the Starship captain) they are downright rude jerks. It's interesting seeing that the Vulcans have done some growing in the later centuries as well.
The characters are still learning their role, but so far, I really like the show.
The only thing negative is that they've embraced time travel plots. I hate time travel plots. There are very few plots that require time travel, and couldn't be rewritten without it. RM101's rule: All time travel episodes suck*.
*Well, except for the original series' City on the Edge of Forever where Kirk, Spock and McCoy go back to the 1930s. But that's the exception that proves the rule.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
This entire season has already been this way. The loss of a writer isn't going to kick the change into motion... the format change was at the start of this season. It all started with the "improved" theme song, and transgressed into many episodes of Dylan running around, jumping off things, and shooting alot; Trance "confessing" to being a sex slave, Rommie's "bad ass android" episode, etc. Has no one already noticed that none of this is "real" Sci-Fi, but ratings garnish? Still, I like the show just fine. :)
Keep Majel happy.
Ok, its the goofiest thing I'll ever do, but I like this show so much I'd sign one. Anyone know where it is?
The first season, was, by far, the best season of science fiction on TV ever. The finale was awesome. And yes, things started sucking even at the beginning of season two... although it is still a great show.
Good Interview here
The hope is that this will go on to become a series
As far as Andromenda, this sounds like Paramount is trying to do what TNN wanted to do with the Bab5 sequel, turn it into a Science fiction version cross mix of WWF and Baywatch.
If it was that easy, why doesn't someone try to write stuff like that? Or don't they know that that it is easier to write stuff that sucks vs stuff that is good?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I've always thought a mini-series approach would work well with Star Trek. Rather than picking 7 years of the Trek universe and focusing on one lousy ship and crew, they would have half a dozen shows focusing on some interesting aspect of the whole Trek future history. Show them from different races points of view, even. I for one would like to see the separation of the Romulans and the Vulcans. The founding of the Federation, Kahless and the Klingon Empire, Changlings and the Dominion, even the Borg Collective (one of the better Voyager episodes was suggestive along these lines). The Cardassian occupation of Bajor. The wars with the Romulans and Klingons and why the Feds have the Prime Directive. Events leading to the destruction of the Enterprise-C. What happened in the period between First Contact and Enterprise. The Orion Syndicate. There's hundreds of years and thousands of concepts that could be explored.
This way, there's tremendous continuity between episodes of each 'series', but you need only have a smattering of knowledge about Star Trek to pick up on a new one. Also, there's enough time to do some character development, but not enough that they have to get radically desperate for ideas the way they did with some episodes.
Dyolf Knip
When is Paramount going to finally visit a graveyard and realize that Roddenbury is dead?
Well, you do know that he was cremated and some of his ashes were sent up with the Shuttle and scattered in outer space? Hard to find, these days...
Dyolf Knip
I've watched Andromeda in it's entirety. The first season was definately arranged around a far more complex plot (per episode) than the new 2nd season.
But you know what - I still like the show.
If anyone can remember back to when shows like "Gunsmoke" and "Bonanza" ruled the airwaves, you'd notice the similarities between them and Andromeda immediately. There's that deep announcer-type voice over for the opening, that grand idea of "taming" the hinterlands and a cast whose story revolved mostly around their "homestead". Then we have the fact thatthe characters are almost one-to-one. For example, the leader and visionary would mean Dylan Hunt can be equated to Ben Cartwright, the "cute" Trance would probably be Little Joe, and so on. Then there's the fact that all episodes (except maybe season finale/premier) are an hour or less and the episode is mostly self contained. Finally, you can add in the gun fights, which seem pretty much bang on to those moments when we see those neat "force-lances", and the horse'n'buggy stuff matches right up to the Andromeda's crew using the Eureka Maru to go off on whatever "mission" is necessary..
All in all, it looks like we're back to the *serial-western*, except in space. So I'd say what's really been done is to revert to the core of TV history - simple mindless entertainment with no strings attached.
(as I gingerly step onto my soapbox)
Apparently the poster hasn't really been watching all that sci-fi has to offer of late. Farscape has been and continues to be-
1. Very continuity driven, yet accessible through genuine humor. Enterprise has apparently been passing all of the inhabited planets with jokes on them. Farscape succeeds by making the continuity-heavy bits multi-parters (there've been 2, if memory serves, THREE PART episodes), and the less continuity-heavy parts character driven...so even if you're not quite sure what's going on, the interactions between crew members (whether they're pissed off with each other or having mad sex) makes up for it.
Ah yes, Stargate SG-1 gets continuity points as well. Great show. Nearly every episode feels like a movie in itself (okay, that's just because they're no commercials built in, and it has super high production values, but i'm not complaining!)
2. Full of well-acted changing characters. Emphasis on the _changing_. The only other show I can cite where characters change so dramatically and _believably_ is B5. It's such a joy to watch characters you love go through hell and back and come out the other end with scars that they keep with them for episodes and episodes.
3. Unafraid to push boundaries. Farscape, near the end of the 3rd season it is in currently, ran an episode that was almost entirely a cartoon--a looney toon, in fact. It was funny, and touching, even.
4. And on the subject of being touching. Call me what you like, but Farscape makes me cry. Pretty often. So there. B5 did it, but Andromeda? Too bad what potential _was_ there has just gone the way of the dodo. And voyager? Man would I have jumped for joy if Janeway had bitten it...
So that's all. I _hope_ the poster takes the time to look into Farscape...I like to think of myself as a pretty smart guy, and that I've seen enough crappy sci-fi to know that Farscape is pretty darn smart.
Of course, this is all just my opinion.
Octavian
"In the end, we all fall back on fiction." -- Lonely Planet
Darnit, I like tons of backstory, even when I don't know all of it. I like it when a TV shows rewards its regular audience with content that they can appreciate more than casual viewers, because they pay attention to the series. And I'd think the writers would like to encourage such a fan base as well, just for the joy of creating a world that isn't just sitcom eye-candy.
I'm the stranger...posting to
"...the godawful Enterprise..." is drawing more comments then the rest of the post. There is a reason for that. Andromeda is lame, its hardly better then modern Saturday morning cartoons. Enterprise on the other hand is the best thing to happen to the Trek franchise since the original show.
It gives us characters we can care about. It gives us history, its interesting to see the beginings of things that were taken for granted in earlier series. It gives us incite and perspective with which we can better appreciate some of the things we already know about.
Vulcans seem more "real", they aren't treated as infalible as they were in other series. Its intriguing to see. The first contact with the Klingons was perhaps what we expected but yet from the very first they seem honorable. It will be fun to see the first contact with the other races that we know about.
Its refreshing to see what the rest of the universe looks like without the all powerful all pervasive Starfleet getting in the way. Hopefully there will be more glimplses of earth life beyond the frieghters. No more searching for excuses on why the transporter can't be used to save the day or why the replicators, just this once, can't produce what is needed. This crew is facing real limitations on ability and knowledge...it will make for better stories.
Yes, it has its problems...I find the opening annoying, lose the vocals, the imagry works and would be more powerful without them. The time travel crap that infested Voyager is threatening to raise its ugly head and I hope they can keep it to a minimum.
Andromeda? Who cares what happens to it. Give me Enterprise and Farscape and I'll be a happy camper.
Yeah, that really is too bad. Maybe if they cancel the show after this season they'll rerun the old episodes where it was actually good...
I'll say it once:
:-)
Stargate SG-1
Stargate SG-1
Stargate SG-1
Even if you don't get cable, catch it this week in syndication -- it's a hilarious episode where they make fun on conspiracy theorists.
The only two shows that are on par with it are Babylon 5 (which is in reruns), and Farscape (which is a hard show to compare it to, since it has a much different feel to it).
While most of the first season of SG-1 sucked, and part of the second had problems, it gets REALLY good after that point. Every season of the show has been getting better and better (much like Babylon 5 did, with its slow start).
If you've never seen the show before, and are interested in trying it, here is the order I'd suggest to "sample" it:
- Stargate (the movie) - The series starts one year after the movie, and involves the same characters and setting. Not 100% required, and not as good as the series, but it definitely helps to watch this first.
- Stargate SG-1, episodes 1-2 (counting the 2-hour premiere as one episode) - DVD #1
- Stargate SG-1, episodes 19-21 - DVD #5
These episodes are the best indication of what type of show the series is.You can skip the rest of season one if you're just sampling the series to decide if you like it. Before watching much further you should go back and watch the rest of season one, however - while not all of season 1 is important to the ongoing plot, 9 of the remaining 16 episodes contain information that is important/vital to understanding events later in the series.
--The Rizz
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it." --Ronald Reagan
Crusade was cancelled before the serie was shown. Some argument between the bosses of TNT and JMS (TNT wanted more sex and violence).
Je ne parle pas francais.
How I hate when people spout tripe like this. Sci fi is not about "escaping reality". It is not. It never has been. If it is "escapist" at all, it's about escaping into reality -- into a Universe larger and more awe-inspiring than the insipid little minutae with which we fill our lives.
Science fiction is not about spaceships and little green men, time travellers and miracle cures. It's not about gadgets and gizmos. It's not about a million different outcomes to the roll of the dice. Science fiction, at its best, is about being open to new ideas and new ways of thinking about things
Perhaps three quotes by John Campbell typify what science fiction really is:
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Um, the last original episode of DS9 aired in, I believe, 1998 or 1999. A little late for creative feedback, I'd imagine (unless you run across one of the many spacetime anomalies...)
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
What I really want to see are re-runs of Star Trek The Animated Series!!!
You're using her as bait, Master!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: more Lexa Doig! More Rommie!
If you don't understand how the incredibly sexy avatar of the most powerful starship is the bestest geek girlfriend ever, you probably shouldn't even be reading Slashdot. :)
They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters. Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory."
Wonderful! Next thing you know, you'll start seeing a few guest appearances by Lucy Lawless...
You're using her as bait, Master!
I created the petition to have Robert Hewitt Wolfe be allowed to return to the show and his status be restored as Head Writer of the show. If you love Gene Roddenberry's Ardromeda and wish that the way the show has been written as a continuing story arc rather than a stand alone storyline. Please come to this petition URL and sign it....let us fight back and let them know we won't tolerate another Voyager television show complete with another Seven of Nine in a cat suit with double DDs. Sex and Action is not the theme of the show, science fiction is! http://www.petitiononline.com/ker3/petition.html Thank you!
If Andromeda-lite is more successful than Full Strength Andromeda, I don't hold a lot of hope for more intelligent shows to be produced. Maybe Babylon 5 will be available on DVD, but if skiffy sells, who will take a chance on something better?
Hey, Andromeda isn't perfect (oddly and unrealistically choreographed gunfights stick out as of late), but there's a lot of intelligence and planning in the backstory and in the development so far. It would be a shame to give that up for episode after episode of "Good guy in silver starship, bad guy with funny forehead and dark starship with lots of pointy bits."
On the other hand, they could pull a Chris Carter and pretend they weren't aliens all along. "We're sailors. This is HMS Andromeda." That would be worth watching for the irony value alone.
how to invest, a novice's guide
I agree with you except for the 'unneccessarily' part.
Probably most of the people you deal with on a day to day basis are tech-savvy educated and fairly intelligent.
I BELIEVE that this is not the case in the general population, and maybe the networks are dumbing down the content in order to match the new audience.
--jeff
ipv6 is my vpn
Most notably "The Inner Light" #125, which won the 1993 Hugo award for Best Dramatic Presentation.
For 99% of everything else though, you're right... The action episodes at least give us something to look at. We already know with the Prime Directive episodes what's going to happen: The primitive people have a secret weapon called a "rock", which is impervious to phasers, undeflected by shields, and pops a rivet on the starboard nacelle causing plasma to vent. Picard must use his clever intellect to get the enterprise out of harm's way before the barbarians hurl another "rock" at them which will surely breech the warp core!
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Milk is to become more white, infants are to become more young, and dirt is to become more filthy.
Edith Keeler Must Die
I thought Protector started off really well until it slowly devolved into "super genius can do absolutely anything at all" and saves the day for the human race. Waiting to find out what happens next kept me reading until the end but in retrospect I think I enjoyed Ringworld a bit better. I'm reading Ringworld Throne right now hoping not to be disappointed with the series.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Um.. ds9 ended over 2 years ago... Maybe you're still catching up??
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
The Ring of Charon (Allen)
This is actually the first of a series, which ends on one almighty cliffhanger. but I've never been able to find any subsequent books.
I'll get back to that. First:
:) then how come good Sci Fi cannot keep its own? Ratings are going to affect badly a show that I had just started watching for plot development.
It's sad that continuity can be seen as a bad thing for Sci Fi when it is the most important element in Soap Operas. If you can have a guaranteed audience for soaps, even if it's not us geeks
Writers shouldn't see a problem with continuity. Apparently, the excruciatingly slow pace of Dragonball Z is what got so many American kids into it. When you think about it, our (male) kids and future Scifi watchers will prove in the far future that they can withstand the effects of neverending plots. IMHO. Japanese animation like Kenshin and DBZ is showing americans that long hours of characters commenting after every move is no longer taboo.
Another thing: I have friends who are disgusted at the simple sight of humanoid makeup on Sci Fi. There is not much chance for the 'new' plots to attract anyone but dedicated Sci Fi people.
"Wireless : LAN
Of the shows current on, here are some of my ratings. All IMHO, of course.
shows I like with few reservations
24 (VERY GOOD, try it out.)
ER (there's more to life than SF)
Buffy
Angel (I actually far prefer this to Buffy these days, it has a "quirkiness" that reminds me of Herc & Xena)
Stargate SG-1 (best SF currently on, ties with B5 overall, on course to overtake it)
Junkyard Wars
Good Eats (the cooking show that's so good it inspired me to learn to cook)
The Sopranos (on hiatus)
Six Feet Under (on hiatus)
Malcolm in the Middle
shows that I watch despite some pretty serious flaws, though I feel kind of dirty after a viewing
Enterprise
Alias (Sidney has terrible, terrible fieldcraft and most of the tech is totally silly, otherwise pretty neat)
X-Files (increasingly incomprehensible!)
shows I really wish I could learn to like
Farscape (Saw it twice: blue-girl got a cold, and a monster in a cheap-looking mine. Lame.)
shows that even prisoners of war should not be made to watch
Lexx
Andromeda
Earth: Final Conflict
Dark Angel (She has cat DNA, so she goes into HEAT. That was the last of many straws.)
It's late and I have probably forgotten something obvious.
Is everybody forgetting that part of Wolfe's task on DS9 was to make it more action-oriented, and easier to "follow" for the masses?
Like it or not, it's a fact that if the masses don't like it, it doesn't make much money, and if it doesn't make enough money to justify airing it instead of something more marketable, we don't get to see it at all.
Action-oriented? Little continuity of plot? Sounds like the original Star Trek to me...
I thought Protector started off really well until it slowly devolved into "super genius can do absolutely anything at all" and saves the day for the human race. ... I'm reading Ringworld Throne right now hoping not to be disappointed with the series.
Good luck.
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Complexity doesn't necessarily make a good narrative. Most of what are regarded as the best narritives are often very simple and easy to understand. Take Shakespeare for example -- there are very few storylines that don't have a direct parallel to a Shakespeare play, and his plays were written to amuse 16th century Londoners, a group probably much less educated than even today's soap opera viewers.
I think there's good reason for a SciFi TV show to focus on aliens, technology and action and shy away from overly involved narratives and excess character development. Most SciFi writers, when aiming for "deep" narratives make Paradise Lost look like an Archie comic and they're terrible at character development. I can't think of a single Voyager character that was either memorable or even interesting.
Speaking of Soaps, have you ever actually *tried* to watch one? I think they're unbelievably complicated. We tried in college to follow All My Children one quarter (on before lunch, no classes, etc) and found it inexplicable. Yet I've known people (mostly women) who can describe months of plotlines and intricate character motivations. Don't underestimate the soaps.
What the hell are you talking about? The tail was probably one of the neatest things about this show, in terms of character designs. You have a character that nobody knows anything about, but who looks like a cross between pre-evolved humans and is evolved beyond that to high hell. It's part of her character design, and in my opinion, it was just really, really cool. If the fact that she lost it was part of the plot, then.. fine.. okay.. I can deal. Because the way this show works, there IS a reason. But if it was just so Sorbo could feel better, then screw him.
I'm really miffed that they got rid of her tail. This show had two things going for it; Harper, and Trance. Anyone who's seen the episode Harper 2.0 knows what I'm talking about. And anyone who saw it and still doesn't should go back to watching Voyager reruns.
Honestly, is the whole of Slashdot against Andromeda, or do you people just need something to bitch about? I'll bet that 90% of the people who're complaining in here haven't watched half the episodes. I've watched them all; every single episode since it started. And yes, there is a large plot arc over the whole thing, and that's part of what makes this show so fricking cool. Sure it's not as deep as Babylon 5, but this is the closest thing to the deep plots of anime that Canada and the US are going to pump out any time soon without being a soap opera.
Btw, what are you people talking about, calling the character designs ugly? You wanted some innovation in character designs--you got it. Quit complaining. The designs here have got to be some of the most original (and logical, evolution-wise) that we've seen in decades. A species that blinds then predigests their food outside of their body, and then a religion that attempts to curb this behaviour and make the race more civilized. A species of intergalactic purple genetically-engineered superbeings who will occasionally destroy civilizations out of boredom. The Nietscheans.. if you've taken any philosophy or religious studies at all, and enjoyed it, then it's really interesting to see the whole dynamic of a religion on a species, or at least the series' take on this idea, from a viewpoint where the religion is so completely different that you can have no prejudices about it.
This show is deep, because it examines not how humans interact, but how entities interact. These aren't people in alien costumes, these are aliens coming to grips with the divide between theory and practice in their personal philosophies. It's about the clashes between their philosophies. The Andromeda is a place where people of completely different philosophies and hopes for the future are all working together for a common goal; peace. This show is about how they'll reach that goal, despite their personal and societal differences. That is the plot; not how many Nietscheans Hunt can kick the butts of in a week.
This show isn't about good versus evil. This show is about people versus themselves. It's about self-discovery, a shared voyage with a common purpose, and the internal clashes that result. Honestly, I think it's about everything that Voyager promised, but never delivered on. Perhaps that's just too deep for some of the people out there to grasp, but this is a show for thinkers, not for people with an "oo! I like swords!" mentality. Go find a show of your own, if you don't like it; don't go wrecking ours..
Take the original, thoughtful premise. Have everyone except Sorbo and the AI leave for their own series. Then Sorbo can do goofball episodic fluff like the last three years of Hercules, and everyone else can get to the real business, like all but the last year of Xena.
How about: A new drug is developed which - when used in a Wayist, super(wo)man, love machine setting with the right dodad in the neck-jack - transforms members of various (sub)species into truly peaceful, cooperative, enlightened folk. The crew realize that among them they have the resources to transform civilizations by distributing this drug. Sorbo won't go along because the "High Guard" mission statement holds too much consciousness to be a bad thing. Sorbo becomes recurrent guest character Last Unhappy Man - sort of a Flying Dutchman against the background of expanding waves of utopian transformation.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Some of the best ideas are frozen in books & not in TV.
Eh. It's all in the writing. The really good sci-fi TV productions have been written by accomplished print authors like Ellison and Sturgeon.
Woe that Babylon 5 never produced the Ellison script for the sequel to "Demon with a Glass Hand".
Andromda has been one of the more interesting shows - Granted, the occasional bad episodes have been unspeakably putrid, but they have a dynamite premise, some fascinating background, and interesting characters who aren't necessarily what they seem at first glance.
Bad points - those unspeakably putrid episodes, of course, and gack!! two time travel episodes in the first season.
I'm very disappointed that they're apparantly planning to trash everything that made the show worth watching.
Enterprise is growing on me. The last episode, "Fortunate Son", had some real stupidities, but there was enough good stuff to overbalance them - The stuff about the freighter crews, which really made this seem like a real world with real people, other than just Star Fleet and non-player-characters, as too much of the rest of Star Trek seemed to be. They seem to have accomplished one thing they were after, anyway, which is the sense of wonder, that they really are going where no human has gone before, and it's all exciting, fascinating, wonderful, and a more than a bit scary sometimes. Other recent Trek incarnations had lost that.
Those who think that Earth being at odds with the Vulcans is inconsistent with the rest of Trek don't seem to have watched Kirk-era Trek that closely - There was some very real suspicion of Spock in the old series (especially in "Balance of Terror") and some rather snide remarks about "Vulcan mysticism" from pretty high up in Star Fleet in "The Search for Spock".
Voyager I thought was a load of crap, and I quit watching it early in the first season. The Kazon were such goofball "bad guys", and why in the world were they hanging around in Kazon space for the whole season? They were supposed to be trying to get home, right?
Goofball villians were what ruined DS9 for me, which I liked the first few seasons. I just didn't find the Jem Hadar remotely believable, and didn't want to watch them every week.
DS9 did have my all time favorite line, from the "Temporal Police" -- "James T. Kirk -- The man was a menace. Seventeen separate temporal violations."
All TV skiffy shows need to have a technical advisor with a large-caliber gun and a license to kill.
Case in point, Farscape, which I wanted to like, but I quit watching it back in the first season. Pilot, and the living ship, are marvelous. Some of the other characters, less so, but are tolerable. But Rygel... Give me a break. Would someone please explain to me what sort of metabolic processes could possibly produce enough helium so everyone in the room talks with a high-pitched voice when the character passes gas? Someone just isn't clear on the concept of what "inert gas" means. Rygel's body can not produce helium, unless he's fusion-powered, and to produce that much helium, he'd have to be producing more energy than Superman would need. (The 60's "Stupendousman" version, not the more limited current Superman).
I didn't get into Stargate, mostly because I do not subscribe to Showtime. I think it's showing on some Fox stations? I'll have to check it out.
There's an episode where they blow up the abandoned station because "it's now a navigation hazard. (Hello! What about the debris!) Obviously they were just using up SFX they had bought for the original "by his bootstraps" ending.
A better example is the new series 24, which tries to tell a story occurring in a single day in "real time" with 24 one-hour episodes. It seems to be popular enough. One way they deal with the continuity issue is by posting detailed episode summaries on the Fox web site. Which, given the complexity of the story (I count at least 5 subplots!), is useful even if you didn't miss any episodes!
Although it's very continuity-driven, I'm rather glad I missed the first 3 seasons of Buffy. Unless you're into teenage melodrama, the early episodes are not that interesting. Although I did enjoy watching them after I got hooked on the starkly original imagry and storytelling in the later episodes.
Digital video recorders are great for the continuity-compulsive. I never would have watched Earth: Final Conflict it my Tivo hadn't spotted the first episode and made it easy for me to give it a try. (Now if I can just figure out why it freezes up if I don't reboot it every day!) Rather better than I expected. Alas, SciFi pulled it after a few weeks due to bad rating. Oh well, I understand they wrote out the main character on that one too!
I loved the first Star Trek series, and TNG had its moments. But even before Paramount reduced the whole thing to a bad soap opera written by scientific illiterates, it was struggling with the need to appeal to the Least Common Denominator. You can see this in the first series, where they had to promote Kirk from Lt. Commander (notice his insignia) just so they wouldn't have to explain that the word "Captain" has more than one meaning!
> every day!)
you got the dreaded experimental model, which uses widows . . .
:)
hawk
What are you complaining about? Andromeda is utter crap. It looks more like Conan the Barbarian in space. A bunch of big tough guys with rediculously large weapons who're followed around by a not-so-tough-but-cool guy and throw in a few hot chicks dressed in leather and lots of cleavage? Tell me again how removing the "continuity" of this show will make it worse, because I'm having trouble with how it could possibly get worse.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert