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Andromeda To Become Less Complex?
Prehensile Plant writes "After 7 years of Voyager and now the godawful Enterprise, the guy responsible for everything good about Deep Space Nine has just been sacked from the show he developed. Robert Hewitt Wolfe has parted company with the last bastion of scifi for people with half a brain - Andromeda. Wolfe said: "Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters. Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory." Slipstream has the full scoop.
This isn't that outrageous, now is it? I mean, they're trying to attract more viewers and get rid of that stigma that surrounds Star Trek fans. Which Star Trek episode do you prefer -- the one with Picard struggling on whether or not to help those aliens even though it violates the Prime Directive or when they fight Romulans?
And why is Enterprise so bad?
Deep Space 9 was the last ST Series I had an interest in. Andromeda and Farscape are the only 2 series I watch now, and if Andromeda starts leaning towards the direction that article describes, I probably won't stick around to watch.
A shame. B5 - first season, anyone?
About the only thing objectionable about Enterprise thus far has been the contrivance of the distrust between Vulcans and Humans. It's as if the writers simply wanted to invert tradition for the pure hell of it.
Other than that it has been somewhat entertaining.
Actually, I like History Channel myself.
:-(
The changes to the Enterprise series shows that too many TV producers for the major over-air networks are dumbing down their shows unneccessarily.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
After 7 years of Voyager and now the godawful Enterprise,
In the immortal words of Bart Simpson:Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you have to complain? ...
They're giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for
free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe
them.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
...of wanting less continuity. Too much continuity does make it hard for new viewers to get into. I have never watched Babylon 5, for the sole reason that I would like to watch it from start to finish in the correct order, which is virtually impossible now that I missed its heyday (no one runs it any more and it's far to large to rent, even if it was available). Having less (not no) continuity would allow people to pay close attention to every episode if they wanted to , but not get totally confused by missing a show or two. The X-files actually did this pretty well (for a while).
Translation:
"Despite the fact that the average Sci Fi viewer is ten times more intelligent than the average soap opera viewer, we didn't think they'd be smart enough to follow a complex story line. Also, it doesn't make a difference if the episodes are bad, just as long as more people watch them. Only Star Trek geeks have pride in their work."
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
All the strange new worlds have been discovered. They should concentrate the show on the wars with the Klingons, Romulans and conflicts with other species. After more than 10 seasons of strange new worlds what else is left? How many more humanoid type races can the make up artists think up? All the alien races on star trek are very simplistic and concentrate on one quality of humanity. By now I think they are out of qualities and should have the human race covered.
I liked the pilot, but all the other episodes are hardly original and even kind of boring. Perfect example is a few weeks ago when they went to the planet colonized 80 years ago that got irradiated and the humans now live underground. They should fire the writers. It sounded so stupid trying to invent a new dialect for those people and making it sound like bad Shakespeare.
There's always Farscape and Lexx.
Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory.
isn't that what sitcoms are for?.....SCiFi is for smart people, not for the retard who watched "Jerry" or the pop culture people who watch "will and grace" or "Survivor"
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I like this show. It was interesting, plus I like the fact that not all the aliens have funny ridges on their nose.
However, they need to find a damn timeslot for it and keep it there. I haven't seen the show for quite a while because it seemed every week it was on at a different time, or pre-empted.
Nice way to develop viewers.
And yes...I know my problems would be solved if I could convince my wife of the benefits of a Tivo!
They've been paid for their time, and paid well. And if they choose to cynically exploit their fans by airing drek like Enterprise or the most of the last couple episodes of The Simpsons, that's all the right to complain I need.
I dunno if any of you have been watching Earth: Final Conflict, but this last season of its has been sucking tremendous ass.
At the very least we have Stargate SG-1 to entertain us? The entire show is only about continuity!
On the other hand, remember that whole Tabasco fiasco with Roswell? I don't watch Roswell, but there was some massive campaign to keep the show from being cancelled, maybe something like that can be done to prevent this loss of what makes Andromeda cool?
[o]_O
NO!! Bastards! Andromeda is/was the last good scifi on TV (next to old B5 reruns). This just sucks. Ruined my day. :-(
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
It actually could be an improvement. I'm very sick of the little battle between tyr (spelling?) and Dylan. I want them to be friends. I know some may think that would suck but sci-fi is all about an escape from reality, I guess their animosity is just a little to real for me.
-Mark
Sci-Fi (http://www.scifi.com/babylon5/) has been running Babylon 5 episodes (and the movies, and the 13 episodes of the follow up series Crusade on occasion) in order for over a year now. I missed it during the original run, but have since seen the vast majority of the show during this new run.
Moreover, they funded a new B5 movie which will air in January, B5: Legend of the Rangers (http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers).
:wq
As far as I'm concerned, no one can argue with the fact that, at the very least, Enterprise is well-acted. I personally like it. But 'Andromeda'!? That is the most idiotic show I've ever seen. I liked Deep Space Nine, and I only now realized that someone from it is writing for Andromeda; he must've suffered massive head injuries. The entire cast looks like they were ripped out of a Gap commercial to play in this 'trendy, fashionable, sci-fi show'. Kevin Sorbo is a joke. The only sci-fi show he should be in should be one where he makes fun of himself constantly as a comedic, egomaniacal captain. And the acting all around is just horrible. If the requirements for becoming an astronaut included starring in Calvin Klein underwear ads it might be a tiny bit easier to suspend disbelief and watch an entire episode. Blech.
Man, this was absolutely the last show I liked, and now they're going to kill it.
Just who do they think their audience is, anyway? Maybe they should sex up the chicks and add a laugh track...
They're showing reruns during the week at 6PM US Central. I think they're around season 3 right now.
Actually, as far a continuity goes if you jump in now (or a week or two ago) you'll be fine. You'll pick up all the backstory pretty quick, you just won't have in handed to you in a slow, easily digestible way.
As far episodic shows, I don't particularly care for them. I can't stand watching TNG anymore because everything is too self contained for my tastes now, everything gets wrapped up in an hour (or two if it's a complex problem). It's much interesting if a show's episodes are connected together somehow than if they are discrete self-contained units.
You dont think it's contrived? I hate to say this but it is a TV show written by people called writers who are contriving the whole thing. I know you are going to argue the point that it doesnt quite follow what was portrayed in the previous star trek shows. Guess what... They were contrived too. There is no harm done in being slightly original for this incarnation of star trek.
It's sad that producers have such a low opinion of viewers these days, that they choose to dumb down otherwise intentionally texdured and compled material. Gene Rodenbury would be rolling over in his grave if his ashes weren't floating in space.
The scary thing is the producers might be right. The steps probably will improve ratings for the show, which is a pathetic comentary on television audiances.
Also, I periodically watched 'Earth: Final Conflict' but this season the producers decided to trash the plot arc and introduce an episodic action driven cookie-cutter plot strategy. There really isn't any good Sci-Fi out there, except perhaps Stargate-SG1 and The Outer Limits.
On the other hand, since none of us are actively producing television series, we don't really have much of a right to complain. Some may say that producers should listen to us because we, the audience, are the 'customers' and are always right, but certainly the changes being made to these shows are based of viewer feedback and focus groups, with the intent to improve ovarall ratings and thus proffit.
Perhaps the programming via subscription model that as tried several times a few years back, needs to be applied to Sci-Fi series. I havn't heard much about this model ($19.95 per season per viewer) recently which leads me to believe the original attempts ere spectacular failures, but perhaps with the more dedicated audiences of Sci-Fi, it would work better.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
I think Enterprise rocks. DS9 was my favorite Star Trek series, and Enterprise is climbing rapidly.
What I especially like about Enterprise is that it's interesting watching the humans do their thing while being the "clueless newbies" on the block.
I also particularly like the way they've handled the Vulcans. It really shows how one dimensional the Vulcans have been in previous episodes. At their best, they are cool toward humans, and at their worse (e.g., the Starship captain) they are downright rude jerks. It's interesting seeing that the Vulcans have done some growing in the later centuries as well.
The characters are still learning their role, but so far, I really like the show.
The only thing negative is that they've embraced time travel plots. I hate time travel plots. There are very few plots that require time travel, and couldn't be rewritten without it. RM101's rule: All time travel episodes suck*.
*Well, except for the original series' City on the Edge of Forever where Kirk, Spock and McCoy go back to the 1930s. But that's the exception that proves the rule.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
This entire season has already been this way. The loss of a writer isn't going to kick the change into motion... the format change was at the start of this season. It all started with the "improved" theme song, and transgressed into many episodes of Dylan running around, jumping off things, and shooting alot; Trance "confessing" to being a sex slave, Rommie's "bad ass android" episode, etc. Has no one already noticed that none of this is "real" Sci-Fi, but ratings garnish? Still, I like the show just fine. :)
...as long as it's done well. Simple G.v.E. violence is a simple script, but it can't get very good. Interpersonal and moral struggle can be awfully done, sappy as hell, and so one, but it has the chance to become something som much better than that other stuff can eve possibly be.
What was good about DS9? It was, is and always will be one of the worst Star Trek series because of two things:
1. It wasn't an orginial Star Trek idea. Paramount's execs saw Babylon 5 when when all the new shows were shopping themselves around to the networks for the fall schedule.THEY decided that was when they wanted the next Start Trek series to be.
2. Way, way, way too much religious junk! At least with Babylon 5 it was different religoins. With DS9 it was always Bagoran this, Bagoran that. It has to be something like 50% of the episodes have some sort of Bagoran religious crisis or something dug out of the Cardasian occupation.
This is the only Star Trek series that had heavy soap-opera type storylines.
Before I sign off, I will say that there are a few good DS9 episodes. The one where Sisko leads the life of a black story writer in the 40s and the one when Morn fakes his death comed to mind as some memorable episodes. But considering how many episodes there are and those are the only two I can think of kinda prooves my point...
The GEEK shall inherit the earth...
Keep Majel happy.
This isn't "Editorials for nerds, two cents from people you've never met nor care to."
********************
I object to Intellect without Discipline.
Ok, its the goofiest thing I'll ever do, but I like this show so much I'd sign one. Anyone know where it is?
The first season, was, by far, the best season of science fiction on TV ever. The finale was awesome. And yes, things started sucking even at the beginning of season two... although it is still a great show.
That's not true unless you lack cable television (I'm assuming you're in the USA).
Sorry to interject on this one, but the USA doesn't have a monopoly on cable (and certainly not on Satellite!), so I don't quite get the association of those two statements.
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
When is Paramount going to finally visit a graveyard and realize that Roddenbury is dead?
Honestly, I think it's gotten to the point of bedragglement. They're taking a concept and attempting to build a universe out of it. The problem is that universes are relatively boring. It's new and driving concepts that keep the novelty of sci-fi interesting.
Everybody's complaining that Enterprise is boring, and I have to concur. For the same reason that I highly disliked U2's latest album. It's a "homecoming." And in production value, homecoming means "none of our new stuff is working, let's go back to what seemed to work the first time around." Which means: no innovation, no ingenuity, and eventual boredom.
Star Trek got cancelled. They got lucky with TNG that they rekindled some of the fire. But TNG got cancelled as well. Voyager never took off at all, and DS9 suffered the Babylon 5 syndrome of the ever-dreaded cult following (which Undergrads seems to be hitting and suffering from... http://www.undergrads.tv/ ) But fer chrissakes, you can only pull off so many stunts (Jeri Ryan? Return of the Borg queen?) to regain a momentary quick-fix resurgence in the general population in order to keep a series of TV shows running.
I guess the point I'm probably failing at getting across is: Star Trek is over. The man behind the entire concept is dead and simply bedraggling all of his half-finished concepts is merely tainting his image and hurting what used to be a very reputable and enjoyable tv/movie franchise.
Anything that happens in respect to Roddenbury's projects (Trying desperately to keep this on-topic...) I think is pointless and predictable politics in Paramount trying desperately to milk money out of a already harshly depleted resource.
</rant>
Karma: Non-Heinous
...as a lovely parting gift.
Sorry to hear of the changes; lots of thought (and plagiarism, esp. of Ian Banks I think) went into the show.
Seriously, Sorbitol's acting is pretty bad, but Harper is as obnoxious as all the genius engineers in skiffy should have been.
Good Interview here
The hope is that this will go on to become a series
As far as Andromenda, this sounds like Paramount is trying to do what TNN wanted to do with the Bab5 sequel, turn it into a Science fiction version cross mix of WWF and Baywatch.
If it was that easy, why doesn't someone try to write stuff like that? Or don't they know that that it is easier to write stuff that sucks vs stuff that is good?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I've always thought a mini-series approach would work well with Star Trek. Rather than picking 7 years of the Trek universe and focusing on one lousy ship and crew, they would have half a dozen shows focusing on some interesting aspect of the whole Trek future history. Show them from different races points of view, even. I for one would like to see the separation of the Romulans and the Vulcans. The founding of the Federation, Kahless and the Klingon Empire, Changlings and the Dominion, even the Borg Collective (one of the better Voyager episodes was suggestive along these lines). The Cardassian occupation of Bajor. The wars with the Romulans and Klingons and why the Feds have the Prime Directive. Events leading to the destruction of the Enterprise-C. What happened in the period between First Contact and Enterprise. The Orion Syndicate. There's hundreds of years and thousands of concepts that could be explored.
This way, there's tremendous continuity between episodes of each 'series', but you need only have a smattering of knowledge about Star Trek to pick up on a new one. Also, there's enough time to do some character development, but not enough that they have to get radically desperate for ideas the way they did with some episodes.
Dyolf Knip
Less interaction among the characters, more action, less continuity? So, they mean more crap and less story. Lovely. I swear, TV execs are totally clueless as to how to please anyone with half a brain.
I think I'll cancel my cable and go read a book now. Thanks to these same TV execs, there isn't much good on anyway.
Its worse if that happens? Hardly. Its different. Many sci-fi shows throughout the history of television have been action based - especially ones about the future of (mostly) humanity. And this show does focus upon the future of humanity more than other shows - consider that a few of the different characters are wayists (more like deist), Nietzschian (more like Darwinist), pragmatist, and idealist.
And basically, at the beginning of the show, it was a lot like the original star trek - take human philosophies such as these that clash to the extreme and have them fight or at least struggle in order to accomplish something. Of course, you could always develop them more as they have been after the beginning, but not necessarily.
V, Logan's run, and the original Star Trek all had SOME elements of fighting, but mostly it was just fighting. Not a lot of science, either, just a futuristic look. So what?
I'll enjoy the show the way I enjoy cheasy action sci-fi shows rather than the way I enjoy cheasy plot sci-fi shows.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Just a plug. farscape on the scifi channel has ruined all other (star trek, andromeda, etc..) shows for me. it is really well written with believable characters. highly recommended.
http://notanumber.net/
Now maybe I can start watching Andromeda again, it fucking sucks now. Lets hope DS9 fires this douche bag as well. DS9 used to be a great show, but now it is just a fucking Soap Opera, The Young and The Restless set in outer space. It shrinks my dick everytime I accidentally see an episode. Star Trek is not suposed to be a weepfest, it is about Aliens, technology, science and cool shit!
The current Slashdot moderation system is made by gay communists!
The reason for this disclaimer was not that he didn't know that cable tv exists outside the USA, but because he does know that outside the US, having cable doesn't necessarily increase your chances of getting the SciFi Channel.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Just produce a star trek quake mod, and add new aliens each week. Have tournaments each week.
;)
Isn't that what they want? Less continuity, more action, new aliens, and the interteam problems are easy to understand from match to match.
I've watched Andromeda in it's entirety. The first season was definately arranged around a far more complex plot (per episode) than the new 2nd season.
But you know what - I still like the show.
If anyone can remember back to when shows like "Gunsmoke" and "Bonanza" ruled the airwaves, you'd notice the similarities between them and Andromeda immediately. There's that deep announcer-type voice over for the opening, that grand idea of "taming" the hinterlands and a cast whose story revolved mostly around their "homestead". Then we have the fact thatthe characters are almost one-to-one. For example, the leader and visionary would mean Dylan Hunt can be equated to Ben Cartwright, the "cute" Trance would probably be Little Joe, and so on. Then there's the fact that all episodes (except maybe season finale/premier) are an hour or less and the episode is mostly self contained. Finally, you can add in the gun fights, which seem pretty much bang on to those moments when we see those neat "force-lances", and the horse'n'buggy stuff matches right up to the Andromeda's crew using the Eureka Maru to go off on whatever "mission" is necessary..
All in all, it looks like we're back to the *serial-western*, except in space. So I'd say what's really been done is to revert to the core of TV history - simple mindless entertainment with no strings attached.
That's it! No more... Anyone know a way to get Japanese TV on the US east coast? ^^;
btw, If you come across a copy of 'Hellsing', check it out! It kicks ass!
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
First to say, it's sad that they don't want to keep me waiting for the follow-up of previous weeks episodes which I can't afford to miss because each episode brings the series further in a web of entanglement and suspicion.
Short episodes which stand on itself, I can afford to miss them just like I can afford to miss half of the simpsons episodes: it doesn't matter if I don't know that something has happened, it will never be refered to again.
Secondly, the books regarding Star Trek (can't talk for the B5 books, haven't read any of them yet) are getting much and much better. It started with (please correct me if I'm wrong) the Invasion series (four pockets which had a similair topic but was spread over the old series, TNG, DS9 and Voyager series). After that you got more and more of these books which spanned over the series (Day of Honour, the Captains Table, the Domonion War etc)
Right now, I don't care about the single-book episodes, multi-book multi-series books are much better.
bash$
I'm glad that purple chick had her stupid prehensile tail amputated a few weeks ago, that thing was such a cheezy prop.
---------
Fuck you, motherfucker. Fuck yous to: Rob "Taco-Snotter" Malda, Homos, Kowboi Kneel, and RMS.
(as I gingerly step onto my soapbox)
Apparently the poster hasn't really been watching all that sci-fi has to offer of late. Farscape has been and continues to be-
1. Very continuity driven, yet accessible through genuine humor. Enterprise has apparently been passing all of the inhabited planets with jokes on them. Farscape succeeds by making the continuity-heavy bits multi-parters (there've been 2, if memory serves, THREE PART episodes), and the less continuity-heavy parts character driven...so even if you're not quite sure what's going on, the interactions between crew members (whether they're pissed off with each other or having mad sex) makes up for it.
Ah yes, Stargate SG-1 gets continuity points as well. Great show. Nearly every episode feels like a movie in itself (okay, that's just because they're no commercials built in, and it has super high production values, but i'm not complaining!)
2. Full of well-acted changing characters. Emphasis on the _changing_. The only other show I can cite where characters change so dramatically and _believably_ is B5. It's such a joy to watch characters you love go through hell and back and come out the other end with scars that they keep with them for episodes and episodes.
3. Unafraid to push boundaries. Farscape, near the end of the 3rd season it is in currently, ran an episode that was almost entirely a cartoon--a looney toon, in fact. It was funny, and touching, even.
4. And on the subject of being touching. Call me what you like, but Farscape makes me cry. Pretty often. So there. B5 did it, but Andromeda? Too bad what potential _was_ there has just gone the way of the dodo. And voyager? Man would I have jumped for joy if Janeway had bitten it...
So that's all. I _hope_ the poster takes the time to look into Farscape...I like to think of myself as a pretty smart guy, and that I've seen enough crappy sci-fi to know that Farscape is pretty darn smart.
Of course, this is all just my opinion.
Octavian
"In the end, we all fall back on fiction." -- Lonely Planet
Admit it, you just like to weep. Deep, complicated shows were we all get to feel each others emotions. Aaaahhhhh, I bet your so in touch with your female-side you've grown a vagina!
The current Slashdot moderation system is made by gay communists!
Darnit, I like tons of backstory, even when I don't know all of it. I like it when a TV shows rewards its regular audience with content that they can appreciate more than casual viewers, because they pay attention to the series. And I'd think the writers would like to encourage such a fan base as well, just for the joy of creating a world that isn't just sitcom eye-candy.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Try reading once in a while. There's a lot of good stuff out there. Here are some really good ones that you've probably never heard of:
Footfall (Niven, Pournelle), Protector (Niven), The Ring of Charon (Allen), any one Stephen Baxter book (but not two), Starstrike (Gear), Collision Course (Silverberg, I think), and for some fantasy: Silverlock (Myers), A Game of Thrones (Martin).
There's a lot more good stuff out there, too. Don't read anything by Piers Anthony.
All it takes is nukes and nerves.
Whatever! Just because its not the normal Star Trek style means it sucks? I don't get that. If it were any other show would you say that? NO!
I personally think it was well done.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
I love to see shows that have a strong sense of direction and follow it.
It's one of the reasons I watch Babylon 5, and FarScape (although IMO they've "simplified" that FS a bit.) So what if you miss episodes; to me it makes it more exciting when I get to fill in missing pieces of the puzzle, it's like a good suspense novel, albeit in reverse.
I hate to see them Voyagerize Andromeda, but since Gene's been gone, it feels like there's no glue holding all of his great ideas together. Majel help!!
I mean, what other show would have a demon do a chant and magic spell around a stone statue, wait a bit, look at this watch, then light a cigarette while waiting? Or introduce the 'cute little sister no one's heard' of that other shows magically get when the cast starts aging, but literally do it by magic?
Hell, the show's even poked fun at itself, like the first episode of Angel where he smoothly leaps into his black convertable, then realizes he leaped into the wrong car, or the entire episode of 'The Zeppo', which turns a minor Xander B plot into the entire episode while the A plot goes on almost sight unseen, complete with Buffy/Angel melodramatics and the required apocalypse.
And of course, I don't have to mention Hush, or Once More, With Feeling,
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
"...the godawful Enterprise..." is drawing more comments then the rest of the post. There is a reason for that. Andromeda is lame, its hardly better then modern Saturday morning cartoons. Enterprise on the other hand is the best thing to happen to the Trek franchise since the original show.
It gives us characters we can care about. It gives us history, its interesting to see the beginings of things that were taken for granted in earlier series. It gives us incite and perspective with which we can better appreciate some of the things we already know about.
Vulcans seem more "real", they aren't treated as infalible as they were in other series. Its intriguing to see. The first contact with the Klingons was perhaps what we expected but yet from the very first they seem honorable. It will be fun to see the first contact with the other races that we know about.
Its refreshing to see what the rest of the universe looks like without the all powerful all pervasive Starfleet getting in the way. Hopefully there will be more glimplses of earth life beyond the frieghters. No more searching for excuses on why the transporter can't be used to save the day or why the replicators, just this once, can't produce what is needed. This crew is facing real limitations on ability and knowledge...it will make for better stories.
Yes, it has its problems...I find the opening annoying, lose the vocals, the imagry works and would be more powerful without them. The time travel crap that infested Voyager is threatening to raise its ugly head and I hope they can keep it to a minimum.
Andromeda? Who cares what happens to it. Give me Enterprise and Farscape and I'll be a happy camper.
I agree. Enterprise is about the only show I look forward to every week. As for the score, it fits the series fine.
As for Andromeda... ehhh! It's OK. It's just that it takes place so far in the future, it's difficult to identify with the characters.
What I like about Enterprise, is that I feel the crew are tomorrow's astronauts. They seem real.
whats wrong with enterprise ? I kinda like it. yes i also watch and enjoy Andromeda, but I like the other as well.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Go watch it at their house, one of them must have cable. ;)
Yeah, that really is too bad. Maybe if they cancel the show after this season they'll rerun the old episodes where it was actually good...
I'll say it once:
:-)
Stargate SG-1
Stargate SG-1
Stargate SG-1
Even if you don't get cable, catch it this week in syndication -- it's a hilarious episode where they make fun on conspiracy theorists.
The only two shows that are on par with it are Babylon 5 (which is in reruns), and Farscape (which is a hard show to compare it to, since it has a much different feel to it).
While most of the first season of SG-1 sucked, and part of the second had problems, it gets REALLY good after that point. Every season of the show has been getting better and better (much like Babylon 5 did, with its slow start).
If you've never seen the show before, and are interested in trying it, here is the order I'd suggest to "sample" it:
- Stargate (the movie) - The series starts one year after the movie, and involves the same characters and setting. Not 100% required, and not as good as the series, but it definitely helps to watch this first.
- Stargate SG-1, episodes 1-2 (counting the 2-hour premiere as one episode) - DVD #1
- Stargate SG-1, episodes 19-21 - DVD #5
These episodes are the best indication of what type of show the series is.You can skip the rest of season one if you're just sampling the series to decide if you like it. Before watching much further you should go back and watch the rest of season one, however - while not all of season 1 is important to the ongoing plot, 9 of the remaining 16 episodes contain information that is important/vital to understanding events later in the series.
--The Rizz
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it." --Ronald Reagan
Crusade was cancelled before the serie was shown. Some argument between the bosses of TNT and JMS (TNT wanted more sex and violence).
Je ne parle pas francais.
Dawson's creek's theme song has lyrics. Look how wonderful that show is.
I watched it a few times.
:) ).
:)
Man it sucked. Really, I tried to give it a chance, but shit, that dude just cannot act. At all. (the plastic costumes in the first few episodes didn't help any either apparently they got rid of those quickly though.
Its not that I don't like him, but, err, he's good at pounding things in. And beating things up. Kinda like that fish episode on ST:TOS where Kirk is fighting that giant fish looking thing, that is a good episode probebly one of my favorites just cuz it is so lame and the costumes so horrible that is funny and cracks me up every time I see it.
Why did they get herc to even try and act? Seriously, have him stick to what he's good at doing, beating people up. Period.
Have the other charecters talk, just have Herc land on planets when its neccisary to, err, well, beat shit up
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
I wanted to watch Andromeda, I was psyched when the series started, but I missed episodes frequently because of work. When I did have an opportunity to watch, the damn show didn't make any sense.
Call me dumb if you feel better, but the show just has shitty writing. Babylon 5, SG-1 both had deep stories, but you could enjoy and understand each individual episode (and learn something about the characters) with having seen the previous episodes.
As far as Enterprise is concerned, the acting and storyline are leaps and bounds ahead of the first season of STTNG.
I think that it is an entirely appropriate show for people with "half a brain." People with whole brains can watch Star Trek Enterprise.
My main beef with Andromeda is that disgusting character that looks like a fox made out of aging meatloaf. He raunches.
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
What I really want to see are re-runs of Star Trek The Animated Series!!!
You're using her as bait, Master!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: more Lexa Doig! More Rommie!
If you don't understand how the incredibly sexy avatar of the most powerful starship is the bestest geek girlfriend ever, you probably shouldn't even be reading Slashdot. :)
They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters. Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory."
Wonderful! Next thing you know, you'll start seeing a few guest appearances by Lucy Lawless...
You're using her as bait, Master!
I created the petition to have Robert Hewitt Wolfe be allowed to return to the show and his status be restored as Head Writer of the show. If you love Gene Roddenberry's Ardromeda and wish that the way the show has been written as a continuing story arc rather than a stand alone storyline. Please come to this petition URL and sign it....let us fight back and let them know we won't tolerate another Voyager television show complete with another Seven of Nine in a cat suit with double DDs. Sex and Action is not the theme of the show, science fiction is! http://www.petitiononline.com/ker3/petition.html Thank you!
of Blake's 7. I dunno how anyone can consider this show to be original. The character's and basic theme (inverted) are stolen totally from B7. I did email the folks doing the B7 revival about it...
Eric Aitala
www.f1m.com
If Andromeda-lite is more successful than Full Strength Andromeda, I don't hold a lot of hope for more intelligent shows to be produced. Maybe Babylon 5 will be available on DVD, but if skiffy sells, who will take a chance on something better?
Hey, Andromeda isn't perfect (oddly and unrealistically choreographed gunfights stick out as of late), but there's a lot of intelligence and planning in the backstory and in the development so far. It would be a shame to give that up for episode after episode of "Good guy in silver starship, bad guy with funny forehead and dark starship with lots of pointy bits."
On the other hand, they could pull a Chris Carter and pretend they weren't aliens all along. "We're sailors. This is HMS Andromeda." That would be worth watching for the irony value alone.
how to invest, a novice's guide
I agree with you except for the 'unneccessarily' part.
Probably most of the people you deal with on a day to day basis are tech-savvy educated and fairly intelligent.
I BELIEVE that this is not the case in the general population, and maybe the networks are dumbing down the content in order to match the new audience.
--jeff
ipv6 is my vpn
Milk is to become more white, infants are to become more young, and dirt is to become more filthy.
Edith Keeler Must Die
And hey, let's face it--why do we even watch sci-fi? I mean, you get better science and better fiction with a book, so why a TV show or movie? We all know the answer to this... CGI space battles and attractive casts. It's not like the attraction is terribly intellectual--I like to see pretty people in spaceships make other spaceships go boom (this might explain why I like Starship Troopers so much). Right, it's a bit more complex than that, but those are the primary motivations to watch a sci-fi TV show during the time I could be reading a sci-fi book. It's great when you have a show like Babylon 5 with an incredible storyline, incredible visuals, and a really awesome cast (especially Delenn--I used to be so in love with her), but when you don't... well, the guys footing the bills for these shows know what people like to see, and when a show is maybe not bringing in as much money as it could be, you get more space battles and less plot.
the last bastion of scifi for people with half a brain - Andromeda
... imho, it is the best scifi show I've ever seen. ... Like all shows it has it's share of ridiculous episodes.
I disagree.
Personally, I never really liked Andromeda all that much... It's just a little too slick for me and it doesn't pass the "disbelief" test. I like my scifi to be a little rougher around the edges and a little more realistic (you know what I mean)... I like Farscape way better
(Yeah, go ahead and flame me... I'm wearing my asbestos underwear).
Of course, when I say "the best" I mean overall/on-average
Come play free flash games on Kongregate!
So 'Andromeda' is "the last bastion of scifi for people with half a brain?"
If that really is/was ever true, it certainly bodes ill for the current state of SF&F, and its future. Heinlein help us all...
Oh, BTW... LONG LIVE FARSCAPE!!!
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
I'll get back to that. First:
:) then how come good Sci Fi cannot keep its own? Ratings are going to affect badly a show that I had just started watching for plot development.
It's sad that continuity can be seen as a bad thing for Sci Fi when it is the most important element in Soap Operas. If you can have a guaranteed audience for soaps, even if it's not us geeks
Writers shouldn't see a problem with continuity. Apparently, the excruciatingly slow pace of Dragonball Z is what got so many American kids into it. When you think about it, our (male) kids and future Scifi watchers will prove in the far future that they can withstand the effects of neverending plots. IMHO. Japanese animation like Kenshin and DBZ is showing americans that long hours of characters commenting after every move is no longer taboo.
Another thing: I have friends who are disgusted at the simple sight of humanoid makeup on Sci Fi. There is not much chance for the 'new' plots to attract anyone but dedicated Sci Fi people.
"Wireless : LAN
I want new Red Dwarf episodes :)
The themesong is perfect for the mood of the series.
Of the shows current on, here are some of my ratings. All IMHO, of course.
shows I like with few reservations
24 (VERY GOOD, try it out.)
ER (there's more to life than SF)
Buffy
Angel (I actually far prefer this to Buffy these days, it has a "quirkiness" that reminds me of Herc & Xena)
Stargate SG-1 (best SF currently on, ties with B5 overall, on course to overtake it)
Junkyard Wars
Good Eats (the cooking show that's so good it inspired me to learn to cook)
The Sopranos (on hiatus)
Six Feet Under (on hiatus)
Malcolm in the Middle
shows that I watch despite some pretty serious flaws, though I feel kind of dirty after a viewing
Enterprise
Alias (Sidney has terrible, terrible fieldcraft and most of the tech is totally silly, otherwise pretty neat)
X-Files (increasingly incomprehensible!)
shows I really wish I could learn to like
Farscape (Saw it twice: blue-girl got a cold, and a monster in a cheap-looking mine. Lame.)
shows that even prisoners of war should not be made to watch
Lexx
Andromeda
Earth: Final Conflict
Dark Angel (She has cat DNA, so she goes into HEAT. That was the last of many straws.)
It's late and I have probably forgotten something obvious.
and what's even worse it's got my nickname on it.
But. maybe I'm a little biassed since I just saw bladerunner and I am still recovering from the pure plot, music and light creativity in that one.
With great power comes great electricity bills.
I am sick of touchy feely episodes:
Man meets alien,
Alien tries to kill man,
Man understands and empathises with Alien in a non confrontational way.
Alien says, Okey Dokey, you good man, me not kill you.
How is this any less formulaic than Soap? Its not even realistic, on Earth we are top of the food chain, anything above us in the food chain has been hunted to extinction. We didn't negotiate peaceful coexistance with tigers, they were a threat to us, SO WE SHOT THEM.
In space why wouldn't aliens see us as food or enemy or danger?
Also why should the NG/V/DS9 people eat replicator food? Why not go out and have a nice Martian rock skipper BBQ?
From the sound of it this man was responsible for the touchy feely crud and I for one am not sorry to see him go.
...Lexx is a great show. It's hilarious!
Simple. "Time" exists in the exact same way that 3-space does--it's a long stream where one moment follows the next, even if man doesn't measure it.
Heck, if time was just a human invention, it'd be EASIER to travel through it.
Less internal conflict
I haven't seen any Enterprise so I can't offer a direct criticism, but as for DS9 and Voyager, I gave up on them years ago; as soon as I realised that I was watching the "Bold and the Beautiful" in space. So, "less internal conflict" is a winning idea for me.
No need to hope for EFC to be cancelled. This *is* the last season. The show was meant to run for 5 years, and, guess what? This is the fifth year. The EFC site even has a trailer for this season that says it's the last one.
is not the writing or the acting. It's the Design. This is one UGLY show, with some very bad design decisions taken at nearly every level. The ship looks like a hairdryer, giving no impression of its scale. Is it 50 metres long? a kilometre? who knows? Then there's the aliens. Sure the Magog are SUPPOSED to be ugly, but they're ugly in a sad way. Not cool, not scary. And Trance looks like, well, a girl in purple makeup. It looks like it was pasted on with a trowel. The whole show has that slightly cheap, overcoloured look that a lot of Canadian shows have (don't flame me, I love Canada). The colours are unnatural, everyone has a strange reddish tint to their skin. Shame really, the writing was pretty good, especially Tyr, a really strong characterization.
Is everybody forgetting that part of Wolfe's task on DS9 was to make it more action-oriented, and easier to "follow" for the masses?
Like it or not, it's a fact that if the masses don't like it, it doesn't make much money, and if it doesn't make enough money to justify airing it instead of something more marketable, we don't get to see it at all.
Action-oriented? Little continuity of plot? Sounds like the original Star Trek to me...
A song without anywords how is this possible jim??
Dr Who was a nice in-between, I believe each of the episodes was in 4 parts.
A single one hour episode is just too short for much of any kind of story.
The worst thing about Trek is all the characters are such 2 dimensional pussies fresh out of the Federation's PC boot camp in search of a personality.
Complexity doesn't necessarily make a good narrative. Most of what are regarded as the best narritives are often very simple and easy to understand. Take Shakespeare for example -- there are very few storylines that don't have a direct parallel to a Shakespeare play, and his plays were written to amuse 16th century Londoners, a group probably much less educated than even today's soap opera viewers.
I think there's good reason for a SciFi TV show to focus on aliens, technology and action and shy away from overly involved narratives and excess character development. Most SciFi writers, when aiming for "deep" narratives make Paradise Lost look like an Archie comic and they're terrible at character development. I can't think of a single Voyager character that was either memorable or even interesting.
Speaking of Soaps, have you ever actually *tried* to watch one? I think they're unbelievably complicated. We tried in college to follow All My Children one quarter (on before lunch, no classes, etc) and found it inexplicable. Yet I've known people (mostly women) who can describe months of plotlines and intricate character motivations. Don't underestimate the soaps.
>Robert Hewitt Wolfe has parted company with the >last bastion of scifi for people with half a >brain - Andromeda.
Well, it's a good thing that for those of us with a COMPLETE brain still have shows like Farscape, and yes the aformentioned 'godawful Enterprise' which has been better in it's first season than ST:TNG was the first season and better than ST:Voyager was most of it's complete run , EXCEPT for it's theme song (what are they thinking! Get rid of the Rod Stewart'ish song and get something inspiring.).
While I wasn't too impressed with the first season of Andromeda, I caught the season finale and then really enjoyed the season premiere. I've been trying to catch it whenever I can. I look forward to seeing what changes occur, I believe that for a show to survive it CANT rely on getting a 'routine' down and following the same story over and over again, just changing the dialog a bit and putting a new alien (with something different on their face than the last weeks alien) as the bad-guy.
What we all need to do, is support whatever sci-fi show is on, it's the only way they'll keep creating them. Otherwise the airwaves will be taken over by Survivor knock-offs and Celebrity Weakest Link episodes.
And in other news, HBO decided that 10 hours was too long for most viewers of the World War II miniseries "Band of Brothers." Rather than follow EZ-Company from D-Day to VE-Day, the series will be reduced to one hour of some firefights with the Germans.
"We felt that the internal conflict between the characters, and the historical background, was too complicated for most viewers."
HBO is also planning on editing the 12 hour miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon." It will be re-released as "From the Earth to Shepard's 15 Minute Sub-Obrbital Flight," so as not to discourage viewers with a short attention span from watching the 1/2 hour special
this isnt that much related to this but your post reminded me of something i was wondering? if Andromeda is so huge and had a large crew why/how are they running w/ 5 or so people and if so why not have a crew of like 10 than capt. dylan wouldnt have to be soo sad about loosing his crew
This must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
This is probably going to get modded down as "Troll", but its an honest question.
Why, exactly is Andromeda so great? I was really suprised to see it lauded. I caught about 20 minutes of it once, and it seemed to be on about the same level of quality as the "Lost World" "Sheena", etc. It had "fan boy" written all over it. My wife left after about 2 minutes, laughing hysterically. The acting was horrible; there was a lot of other stuff wrong with it, but Ive repressed that knowledge apparently, because I cant remember specifics. Id have to watch it again to list its other faults, and id rather not.
If I wanted to watch bad sci fi, i would watch Andromeda. So im not really getting the "best sci-fi on tv" comments.
Take the original, thoughtful premise. Have everyone except Sorbo and the AI leave for their own series. Then Sorbo can do goofball episodic fluff like the last three years of Hercules, and everyone else can get to the real business, like all but the last year of Xena.
How about: A new drug is developed which - when used in a Wayist, super(wo)man, love machine setting with the right dodad in the neck-jack - transforms members of various (sub)species into truly peaceful, cooperative, enlightened folk. The crew realize that among them they have the resources to transform civilizations by distributing this drug. Sorbo won't go along because the "High Guard" mission statement holds too much consciousness to be a bad thing. Sorbo becomes recurrent guest character Last Unhappy Man - sort of a Flying Dutchman against the background of expanding waves of utopian transformation.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Some of the best ideas are frozen in books & not in TV.
Eh. It's all in the writing. The really good sci-fi TV productions have been written by accomplished print authors like Ellison and Sturgeon.
Woe that Babylon 5 never produced the Ellison script for the sequel to "Demon with a Glass Hand".
If I had made that statement in a reply, I would have been marked down as a Troll. Why is it that we cannot mark the original posting as a troll?
"It was part of his severance package. Thank-you, patch-upgrade your waitron, /. audiences are the greatest in the world!"
The song's terrible, but I love the actual opening sequence. The nebulas/stars/going-to-warp had been overdone.
Anyway, back on topic - I'm not a "casual" TV watcher. I'll make time for a few good shows a week, and watch them religiously. I don't like the idea of shows that are supposed to be at least partly "drama" that don't have a continuous storyline. Making Andromeda more episodic may make it more popular, which is what they want, but you'll lose the people who tune in *every* week. What's the point if you can just catch it on rerun without losing anything?
Last post!
I really liked the series once they brought in the Cro-mags. Instead of just "we're in a reality...now we're in another reality", there was actually some continuity. So I started watching it.
In the 5 episodes I saw before I realized it was a futile effort, there was *one* that included any sort of continuous plot. What a pointless effort <sigh>
Last post!
Second, you're even more of an idiot talking about the 'strong leading man'. Buffy managed to do fine without Angel leading the first year. And Angel certainly couldn't be called the lead, by any means, the second half of the second season, which is the season all seasons aspire to be.
And, third of all, all evidence points toward Spike being the leading man anyway, so your entire comment about 'strong leading man' is just silly, as Buffy has one at the moment.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Buffy's much more character and dialogue-driven than plot-driven. Something that seems not to sit well with technical types. Most of the hardcore fans I know are liberal arts people in their late twenties.
In the end its all a matter of taste. Compare it with Babylon 5, which had far superior plotting but seriously inferior dialogue and acting. Getting all of the elements into top shape is nearly impossible, because nobody's interested in all of them at once.
she was distancing herself from Earth Final Conflict because it was godawful and was nothing like Gene's notes and outline anymore, and that she was also stepping back from Andromeda because things were going well, and she had asked Sorbo (who is taking on some producer responsibilities) to keep an eye on the show and keep her informed. That was several months ago. I wonder what she would say now.
Andromda has been one of the more interesting shows - Granted, the occasional bad episodes have been unspeakably putrid, but they have a dynamite premise, some fascinating background, and interesting characters who aren't necessarily what they seem at first glance.
Bad points - those unspeakably putrid episodes, of course, and gack!! two time travel episodes in the first season.
I'm very disappointed that they're apparantly planning to trash everything that made the show worth watching.
Enterprise is growing on me. The last episode, "Fortunate Son", had some real stupidities, but there was enough good stuff to overbalance them - The stuff about the freighter crews, which really made this seem like a real world with real people, other than just Star Fleet and non-player-characters, as too much of the rest of Star Trek seemed to be. They seem to have accomplished one thing they were after, anyway, which is the sense of wonder, that they really are going where no human has gone before, and it's all exciting, fascinating, wonderful, and a more than a bit scary sometimes. Other recent Trek incarnations had lost that.
Those who think that Earth being at odds with the Vulcans is inconsistent with the rest of Trek don't seem to have watched Kirk-era Trek that closely - There was some very real suspicion of Spock in the old series (especially in "Balance of Terror") and some rather snide remarks about "Vulcan mysticism" from pretty high up in Star Fleet in "The Search for Spock".
Voyager I thought was a load of crap, and I quit watching it early in the first season. The Kazon were such goofball "bad guys", and why in the world were they hanging around in Kazon space for the whole season? They were supposed to be trying to get home, right?
Goofball villians were what ruined DS9 for me, which I liked the first few seasons. I just didn't find the Jem Hadar remotely believable, and didn't want to watch them every week.
DS9 did have my all time favorite line, from the "Temporal Police" -- "James T. Kirk -- The man was a menace. Seventeen separate temporal violations."
All TV skiffy shows need to have a technical advisor with a large-caliber gun and a license to kill.
Case in point, Farscape, which I wanted to like, but I quit watching it back in the first season. Pilot, and the living ship, are marvelous. Some of the other characters, less so, but are tolerable. But Rygel... Give me a break. Would someone please explain to me what sort of metabolic processes could possibly produce enough helium so everyone in the room talks with a high-pitched voice when the character passes gas? Someone just isn't clear on the concept of what "inert gas" means. Rygel's body can not produce helium, unless he's fusion-powered, and to produce that much helium, he'd have to be producing more energy than Superman would need. (The 60's "Stupendousman" version, not the more limited current Superman).
I didn't get into Stargate, mostly because I do not subscribe to Showtime. I think it's showing on some Fox stations? I'll have to check it out.
There's an episode where they blow up the abandoned station because "it's now a navigation hazard. (Hello! What about the debris!) Obviously they were just using up SFX they had bought for the original "by his bootstraps" ending.
A better example is the new series 24, which tries to tell a story occurring in a single day in "real time" with 24 one-hour episodes. It seems to be popular enough. One way they deal with the continuity issue is by posting detailed episode summaries on the Fox web site. Which, given the complexity of the story (I count at least 5 subplots!), is useful even if you didn't miss any episodes!
Although it's very continuity-driven, I'm rather glad I missed the first 3 seasons of Buffy. Unless you're into teenage melodrama, the early episodes are not that interesting. Although I did enjoy watching them after I got hooked on the starkly original imagry and storytelling in the later episodes.
Digital video recorders are great for the continuity-compulsive. I never would have watched Earth: Final Conflict it my Tivo hadn't spotted the first episode and made it easy for me to give it a try. (Now if I can just figure out why it freezes up if I don't reboot it every day!) Rather better than I expected. Alas, SciFi pulled it after a few weeks due to bad rating. Oh well, I understand they wrote out the main character on that one too!
I loved the first Star Trek series, and TNG had its moments. But even before Paramount reduced the whole thing to a bad soap opera written by scientific illiterates, it was struggling with the need to appeal to the Least Common Denominator. You can see this in the first series, where they had to promote Kirk from Lt. Commander (notice his insignia) just so they wouldn't have to explain that the word "Captain" has more than one meaning!
I don't understand why these threads keep putting down the acting on B5. Picard is the only major character on any Sci Fi show that I can think of that was preformed half as well as the roles of G'Kar and Londo. The roles of Sheridan, Ivanova, and Delenn were exceptional as well.
Even the minor characters were great. Lennier could get more across with one look than the typical Trek character could with an entire scene of their hand-wringing monologues. And who could forget Lord Reefa or Mr. Morden or the Emperor Cartagia? How can someone say these were poor performances, especially in comparison to, say Voyager, or Enterprise, or any of those Sci-Fi channel shows that got cancelled after six weeks?
I agree. From looking at the world today, and the history that preceeded it, I'd have to conclude that powerful people in influential postions never scheme against each other to attempt to increase their power. They never take advantage of the tragedies of the day to advance their own agendas. They never allow personal slights to interfere with the discharging of their duty towards the states they lead. Babylon V certainly was unrealistic, both episodes that I saw.
Wolfe said: "Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters. Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory."
I tried to watch Andromeda, and occasionally will manage to get thru an episode, but I really like Enterprise much better.
I don't think it's the internal conflict among the major characters. It's not the action or lack thereof. I wouldn't mind more space battles and aliens.
But I'm not going to suddenly start watching it more. It's probably too little, too late.
-
Will in Seattle
> every day!)
you got the dreaded experimental model, which uses widows . . .
:)
hawk
What are you complaining about? Andromeda is utter crap. It looks more like Conan the Barbarian in space. A bunch of big tough guys with rediculously large weapons who're followed around by a not-so-tough-but-cool guy and throw in a few hot chicks dressed in leather and lots of cleavage? Tell me again how removing the "continuity" of this show will make it worse, because I'm having trouble with how it could possibly get worse.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy to find the
Star Trek:NG episodes are being shown again. In my opinion, they were the best. I was raised on The Next Generation
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.