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Infogrames Serves Civ3 Fans With Cease and Desist
janolder writes "According to multiple articles on heise online (German only), the leader of an effort to localize Civilization III for Germany, Kai Fiebach, has been slapped with a cease and desist letter, including $500 lawyer bill from Infogrames Germany. A grassroots effort to help Kai and tell Infogrames off is forming."
"Background: Most European versions of Civ3 are late. With a slated release for March 2002, Kai and a group of Civ3 fans decided to translate portions of Civ3 to German and to make the result available as a set of files to be applied to the US on time for Christmas. Kai informed Infogrames of his effort and even offered to join forces with their localization team if only the game would be released sooner. Sadly, Infogrames reacted by sending Kai a cease and desist letter, alleging copyright infringement. The home page of the translation effort has already been taken down.
The reason for Infogrames' reaction seems to be that Infogrames Germany doesn't make a single penny on the US version of the game sold through Amazon Germany and other vendors."
Watch out for those I tags, there, Chris.
Cheers,
levine
Kai and a group of Civ3 fans decided to translate portions of Civ3 to German and to make the result available as a set of files to be applied to the US on time for Christmas.
Well, I hope I have time to finish typing this before das ereignet.
seems to be that the game is not yet available in Germany and that the effort going on will cost Infogrames a lot of money (the heise article, which, btw, is here says so, too). Also there will be issues with support. And it is there intellectual property. So, by altering a closed source program without permission they stepped over some border line. Wouldn't it be prosecuted here in the US under DMCA?
- Just my 0000010 cents
It's a nice gesture to offer to work with the official translation team, but they are probably (hopefully) have the entire process planned out. So it wouldn't be of much help to have some random guy "helping out."
Besides, even if I had to wait I'd rather have a real version instead of a hacked up patch that comes with no guarantee.
The problem here seems to be that the text those guys are distributing is (c) Infogrames.
Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
A clarification here.
:)
Providing patches for a binary-only software product may be a violation of the EULA, but that doesn't in itself make it a COPYRIGHT violation.
EULA violations are purely civil, there might not be any statutory or punitive damages, etc. (depends on the local laws). EULAs are based in CONTRACT law.
Copyright violations can be civil or criminal (FELONY (*) in some cases), there are statuatory damages (you can be ordered to pay even if they weren't harmed AND you didn't benefit), punitive damages, contributory and vicarious infringement theories (which don't seem to exist with EULAs) which judges follow, etc.
The DMCA may apply in both cases, depends on the country and the judge. If you get Judge Kaplan, you might as well sell all your stuff and live on the street right now and get it over with. 1/2
Ask a lawyer (in your jurisdiction) for legal advice.
(*) In the US. I don't know the situation in other countries.
P.S. If a company acts so irresponsibly as to try to assess a $500 bill for sending a cease and desist letter because you were trying to be helpful, then to hell with them. Asking you to pay for the costs of their legal attack is unconscionable.
But what I heard about the laws in Germany, that practice seems to be blessed by the gov't there.
"abmahnung" I believe it is called.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Kai was not doing anything malicious. He wasn't try to compete with Infogames, trying to hurt their profits, or even trying to make a profit from himself.
Instead, he was trying to help his fellow German gamers with localization. Infogames should have overlooked the fact that his might have been copyright infringiment.
In the end, it is horrible for their PR, if nothing else.
At least you had the brains to post that as anonymous COWARD. They have just as much right to speak german as you do to speak english. Secondly, you are blaming something that started in Germany that is long over on the people who live there now. Just because someone speaks german does not mean they supported WW2. It doesnt even mean that they are german. Austria and Switzerland are two more german speaking contries yet the people there are not germans.
This is in germany... and that something similiar (opportunistic lawyers using a german law to fatten their own wallets)
see what happened to Kontour (was Killustrator because of a similiar german lawyer tactic...
it's like ambulance chasing but for intellectual property... so... don't necessarily jump on infogames case, because they didn't initiate the cease and decist...
E.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
It's not like the entertainment companies have to worry about alienating their fan base. It's pretty well been proven that they can fuck their fans over without vaseline or K-Y and the fans will still line up and pay them for it the next time something comes out. And doing that is fine but please, a little less whining the next time they get the giant legal dildo out and tell some part of the community to bend over. We seem to feel that being mildly entertained for an hour or two is worth the price of having to bend over for that dildo, so I don't think we have the right to complain when they stick it up our collective ass.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I find the $500 lawyers bill to be insane though - I mean, seriously, the guy was just trying to help, no?
According to the heise article (in Krautish, sorry), the $500 bill has been declared void by Infogrames. They still threaten with a $10,000 fine if he won't cease working on the translations and remove all the work done so far from the 'net.
I know of two unofficial fan translations of Harry Potter books into German. This high quality, multi contributor one was torpedoed before completion. However, this one man effort hit the web early, and was allowed to stay up by a court because it was inferior to the official translation.
And there's the problem. A translation can be treated as a derivative work with enough original content to protect it under copyright laws. It doesn't have to be worse, it can be better - it just has to be different. However, if the copyright holder (in another language) has not yet done a translation, it becomes problematical to prove that your translation is substantially different.
As this is a civil case, it'll come down to a judge deciding what is (here comes that word again) a reasonable delay of the official version before translators can take a shot at it. A three month delay is probably reasonable, a three year one probably unreasonable, but it will be decided on a case by case basis (at least in the UK, I'd be interested to hear if there's a specification of duration in Germany)
So, if the translators waited for the official CivIII German version to come out, then produced their own resource files that differed from the official ones, that would be allowed. But they can't force the copyright owners to hurry up.
What a tangled web we weave.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
> So where can I pick up my 'Boycott Sid Meier' shirt/Tshirt/bumper sticker?
Research "Tee Shirts" and "Printing", and then you can build them in any city with a textile mill.
Or you may find it easier to just plunder neighboring civilizations that already have them.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Infogrames Germany have released a statement about this issue on their homepage.
Google's translation is astonishingly readable, but just in case, here's the text in a nutshell:
- It's a clear violation of the copyright and Infogrames is required to enforce it.
- The official German localization is already in a pretty advanced state - its advantage over the "guerilla translation" is that it covers the entire game while Kai's translation only deals with certain parts of the game. [At least that's how I understand this part]
- In general however, Infogrames are very pleased about fan initiatives and plan to support them more in future. They are still trying to work out ways to cooperate with them.
If, according to some of the posts, an inaccurate translation is the safest way to go, then they should have used Babelfish.
"You have discovered the wheel."
"You have discovered metal employment."
"You have discovered waffle pigeon."
When Apple released the Macintosh in 1984, the system was heavily based on the use of resources (it still is). Apple's User Interface Guidelines pushed keeping all strings in resources to make it easier for third parties to localize the software.
Reading these at the time, I didn't experience any cognitive dissonance. I thought that, surely, nobody could object to a third-party's deliberately increasing one's market share, for free. I imagined that EULAs of the future would specify that anyone who made such modifications should submit them for approval by the original author.
How times have changed!
The controversy over the translation of the US play Civilization 3 (Civ3) by fans of the play escalates. The company Infogrames, which possesses international rights to distribute the game, sent the 39-year old project manager Fiebach additionally for the provisional order an omission assertion and a lawyer bill of over 1,000 Marks...In the omission assertion Fiebach is requested by the lawyer of the company, Stephan Wiedorfer, to omit any processing of the computer program Civilization 3 and to cease distribution of 'processing' created so far. With an offence against this agreement Fiebach would have to pay a contractual penalty at a value of 20,000 Marks as well as attorney's fees.
The rub is that Fiebach is also being nailed for further distribution of his translation over the internet (not sure what copyright law precedent is in regards to this sort of thing):
(He is being held) responsible for further files which are based on his translation which are distributed by third parties over the internet.
Infogames' German-language version of Civ3 is not due to be released for four months, at least:
The controversy over the translation of the US play Civilization 3 (Civ3) by fans of the play escalates. The company Infogrames, who possesses world-wide the rights to distribute, sent to the 39-jaehrigen project manager dock Fiebach additionally for the provisional order an omission assertion and a lawyer calculation at a value of over 1.000 Marks. The calculation called, requires Infogrames fast groundless however further the delivery of the omission assertion. Fiebach needs more time according to own specification however, in order to confer with its lawyer over the individual points exactly.
In the omission assertion Fiebach is requested Stephan Wiedorfer, by the lawyer of the enterprise, to omit any processing the computer program Civilization 3 and so far created to ' processing ' no more to spread. With an offence against this agreement Fiebach would have to pay a contractual penalty at a value of 20.000 Marks as well as transfer the lawyer costs.
Fiebach could not fulfill these demands according to its predicates -- however the condition to be responsible for further files which are based on its translation which distribute third over the network. " as I am to control ", express myself Fiebach annoyed opposite heise on-line.
Besides it is impossible in opinion of Fiebach to consult within the set period its lawyer. It is annoyed about the behavior of employer speaker Michael Wetzel, which guessed/advised it to the lawyer assistance, it however for it no extension of the period not described more near enables in particular. " Mr. Wetzel even guessed/advised me to switch a lawyer on. Mine is however in the vacation and I at present knows myself not, as I with restraint is ", does not deplore myself Fiebach. The demand, Civilization 3 might be translated not through third, is to opinion of Fiebach besides in the glaring contrast to the comments and the initial assistance of a support coworker of the Civilization developer Firaxis. This had helped Fiebach at the beginning of the translation work and even for its Community support had praised.
Likewise under bombardment the operators of the German-language Civilization-3 largest according to own specification are guessed/advised - Fansite Civ3.de , which is led even on the Firaxis homepage in the column Fansites. The two operators likewise received an omission assertion. Fiebach explained in the meantime, he respected the decision of the Site operators to delete the project web page and lock the FTP acces.
Infogrames speaker Michael Wetzel understands the disappointment of Fiebach, does not want however despite the protests of the fans not from the course to deviate and a time extension grant. In a discussion with heise on-line it made clear that it concerns itself with the play around property of Infogrames. Therefore be out of the question a translation through third, particularly since Infogrames Germany counts on not insignificant incomes with the sales starting from March 2002 of the available German version of Civ 3.
The fact that the fans of Civ3 do not agree with the behavior shows various forum contributions to the Infogrames Website.Auch those daily more than 200 Mails, which achieve the enterprise according to firm speaker Wetzel daily, makes by the majority their displeasure over this situation air -- partial in quite harschen words ( daa / c't)
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
One would have to put some humor into the translations.
Tough to prove, there. If humour is a required element, how would a court define humour? Some stuff is obviously humourous (Marx Bros, Jerry Lewis, Jim Carrey, etc) while other things are not so cut-and-dried.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Actually, for those of you living in the US, EULAs may be completely invalid in your state. For instance, here in Kansas the law states that if you are not able to see the complete contract (EULA) before paying for the software, a sale takes place and you are free to do whatever you want with the software. However, if you are able to read the EULA before the exchange of money, you are licensing the software and are bound by the restrictions of the EULA. Click-through agreements seem to be bound by this law as well, as long as the above conditions are met.
Does this mean people who are working on translations of Japanese game ROMs are going to stop for fear of lawsuits? I hope not.
Maybe it's time for a career change. Those lawyer cocksuckers make a bundle for nothing more than being sheer assholes.
-Legion
...ask for a world map, two technologies, and half the treasury, then gone to war anyway.
Yeah, I guess I've been playing too much. ;-)
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
Here's one method off the top of my head: Put the files on a Linux filesystem, exported via SAMBA. Add a hook that intercepts text, routes it through the fish, and sends it on the the game system. The first time the file is accessed, things will be slow, but the file server can cache the translations so that subsequent accesses will be much faster.
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
Why would you want to? Sid Meier has absolutely nothing to do with what Infograms does or doesn't do. The best Sid can do is say 'wow, that sucks. Remind me NOT to renew our publishing contract when it comes up.'
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
A lot of people are in here arguing that "Infrogrames has a right to make money", as if this were a piracy issue. Had you read the blurb on Slashdot more closely, you would realize that this translation is only for people that legitimately bought the US version of the software, usually online.
Infrogrames may not be making money specifically the way it wants (small licensing fees going through Infrogrames Germany and into the US Infrogrames)... but they're actually making more money this way than they would be on the official German translation of Civ3.
I think you have confused trademarks with copyrights. Trademarks must be defended to avoid the mark becoming part of the public domain.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Here's the address you can send your displeasure to:
askthecivteam@firaxis.com
Please be civil.
Remember, if you _own_ a product, you are not _copying_ it or infringing Firaxis's rights in any way. As long as the patch (which I believe will involve a translation of the "Text" subdirectory) will not work unless you have the real thing, I can't see how Firaxis can lose... unless they heavy handedly stomp and piss on all their fans. Of which I am one.
For shame, Firaxis!
Andrew van der Stock
Regarding Civ III and Infogrames, I've got a gripe with them Stateside.
They marketed a "Limited Editon" which promised designer notes(which were pretty much the only worthwhile goodie added). They shipped the Limited Edition, which said it contained the designer notes, and they never included them. Just plain forgot to include them in all 75,000 of the "limited" Limited Edition.
People have squawked about it, but Infogrames and Firaxis (Sid Meier's company) have been silent on this rip-off. This is particularly galling as Firaxis used to be a real standout in terms of standing behind their products with patch support and decent documentation.
Sometimes you wonder how the bean counters really can manage to screw up a thing of beauty.
evanchik.net
If a 3rd party releases a patch, who is making the derivative work? The patch-maker or the person who applies the patch?
Of course that leaves open the fact that the patch maker had to have a modified version from which to make the patch (possible infringement) and that the patch itself could be contributory infringement (contributes to the user's infringement).
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
As I understand it, it's illegal to republish or redistribute copyrighted material, even if you aren't charging for it.
So if they take the copyrighted text from the game, even if its something as basic as "You will have to sweeten the deal if you want the {{civ}} to accept, {{civ_leader}}" and redistribute that, it's probably illegal. Even if you are translating it into another language.
I'm not saying I think thats a good law, just that that's the tack the company will take. That it's a copyright violation.
Now, if they changed the text more than just a straight translation, they'd have a better case, probably. Of course, IANAL.
The thing is, they don't even have to take it to court... There is no way the developer can afford to fight this, unless someone like the EFF steps in to help him out. Which is probably their REAL tactic.