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New Transgaming WineX Release
Thunderbird writes "Transgaming released a new version of WineX. Winex allows you to run x86 windows games and programs on x86 Linux. It includes allmost full directx support (up to 7 including direct3d). " I'm still skeptical of their business model, but I subscribed anyway in the hopes that The Sims and its expansion packs will work soon. They look legit, although I only own 2 windows program (The Sims, Diablo 2, and their expansion packs)
so I don't have much to test it on.
Did someone else noticed that transgamin has licensed macrovision safedisc copy protection ?
At least linux programmers will be able to protect their work from piracy and stop the widespread copying of cd containing GPL software.
That's a big hope for the hole FSF foundation which will be able to maintain its value and retribute its shareholders.
#include "coucou.h"
...but will it run Civilisations 3?
This is about the only game that I want a windows box for at the moment.
Over at LinuxGames, a multi-day flamewar is starting to cool down a bit after a biting discussion of whether WINEX is good or bad for Linux gaming (or Linux as a whole). We should be discussing those same issues here.
In a nutshell: WINEX potentially gets more Windows people into Linux where they can use WINEX as a crutch to play the games they need while using a "better" operating system. (good) However, WINEX also promotes the use of Windows software and insulates programmers from cross-platform considerations. (bad)
Games like the Sims (remember the Mandrake bundle a while back?), Half-Life, Starcraft, Alice, Baldur's Gate II, and others already work and are supported. Games (in order of usability) can be found at http://www.transgaming.com/dosearch.php?order=work ing
Disclaimer:
(from http://www.transgaming.com/gamepage.php?gameid=9 - The Sims)
TransGaming's fully optimized Linux version of Maxis' hit title works perfectly. Packaged Windows version will *not* work well with standard WineX due to lack of optimizations
It seems like they still have to optimize, but it's encouraging that these things are working in the first place.
It isn't just The Sims. Transgaming and the Wine developers have done an incredible job. If you haven't looked at the game compatibility list recently, do so. Anything with a 5 (officially supported by Transgaming) or 4 (runs nicely) should be fine. It's up to an incredible number of good games now.
Nonrandom Link
Quote from transgaming's website: "Packaged Windows version will *not* work well with standard WineX due to lack of optimizations".
So if you own the sims for windows and want it to run on linux, you're SOL unless you want to shell out another 70 or 90 dollars.
You're too late; there won't be a boxed Linux version of RTCW, because not enough people bought the boxed Linux version of Q3:A.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
Not to start another flame war, but this is something that Linux needs. WineX is an excellent piece of software and achievement!
Many people complain that there should be a Linux port and not to use emulation software. Wine is not an emulator and provides a set of APIs for cross platform conformity. This makes it possible for those companies that want a Linux port but do not have the resources to create a Linux port to program for these APIs in their Windows version making the software Linux/Mac/BeOS/etc compatible. This also allows for a single executable to be maintained instead of several versions.
It also allows those of use that dual boot to have one less application to switch to Windows for. Once we no longer dual boot and Windows leaves our hard drives, then the Linux ports will come as Linux will be more of a mainstream OS.
No, this is not better then a native Linux port, but it IS the next best thing!
The lack of a Linux version is the only reason I don't play Anarchy Online any more. Funcom made sure to drop enough hints about a Linux client to make us Linux-users hopeful, starting with a press release on the blessings of QT a year before launch, then later carefully moderating their statements to something like "we may make a Linux version, if we feel like it, at some point after launch". Now, several months after the release, there's still no word on a Linux client, and I strongly doubt there will ever be.
Too bad there's not enough of me to have an effect on any market statistic relevant to game developers.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
This has got me thinking about the whole WineX thing. I think it's a good idea and brings off the shelf software to Linux users. However isn't Transgaming breaking this with their package and special versions of games? Transgaming has their own, apparently optimized version, of The Sims that they bundle with this package that runs under WineX. Apparantely the commerical Windows version doesn't. So it means that if you want to run The Sims under Linux you have to buy their version (and perhaps their future versions of other Windows games). I'm not sure what optimizations they make or how they make them or what involvement Maxis had in all this. The concept of WineX was to allow you to run Windows programs under Linux so it would open up more software (including games) to people wanting to run that operating system. So if you go down this route, you're stuck buying your "Windows" games from them (since they're somewhat changed from the off the shelf Windows versions) and thus if you decide to go back to Windows as an operating system, you have a game that might not work with it right? A little odd if you ask me. Anyways, one step closer to removing that multi-boot that I have to do everytime I want to run Linux.
liB
"I've tried to compile wine many times over the years, and sometimes it does compile. When it doesn't instantly segfault, sometimes I can get the title screen of my favorite game to come up. Once I heard that someone got a game to run under it, but it crashed a lot. Anyways, isn't WINE great?"
Here are the games that have a working rating of four or five (out of five possible). Altough the sims shouldn't really be there since it isn't the windows version. Quite a good list and it's growing really fast too.
:)
Yes, this is karma whoring but the site felt kinda slow and I thought we needed to know what we are talking about
The Sims
Total Annihilation
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2
Total Annihilation : Kingdoms
Raiden II
Atomic Bomberman
Redline
Ultima Online Renaissance
American McGee's Alice
Mortal Kombat IV
I-War
Starcraft
Freddi Fish 2 Haunted House
Sudden Strike Forever
Allods 2
Rehash
Warhammer 40k: Final Liberation
Fallout 2
Panzer General 2
Manx TT SuperBike
NHL 98
1nsane
Elasto Mania
Darius Gaiden
In the hunt
Return To Castle Wolfenstein
Funkflitzer
WarCraft II
Half-Life and Counter-Strike
Carmageddon
Diablo 2
Commandos 2
Sacrifice
Command & Conquer Red Alert 2
Baldur's Gate 2
Air Offensive: The Art of Flying
7th Legion
Grim Fandango
Dune 2000
Myth The Fallen Lords
Championship Manager 2001/2002
Caesar III
Hitman CodeName 47
Shattered Galaxy
Jedi Knight
Red Baron 3D
Command & Conquer: Red Alert
Tigershark
Baldur's Gate
Russa-German War
the good news is if you pop over to linuxgames.com they have a link to the linux binary that will run the windows CD. Also look for tuxgames to sell the binary and windows cd soon. They report to ID as 'linux sales' so try your hardest not to buy the windows version.
how much is a copy of win98 going for these days?
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
Hmmm...
I've been following the WINE project for quite some time now, and I've been cheering for them from the sidelines the whole time. They've picked exactly the right way to go about their project (provide a Linux version of the Win APIs, not emulate Windows) and once complete, they will have contributed a signifigant service to the community.
But I wonder about their choice of licence.
The nature of WINE is that it is very modular; it's not so much a great big tool, as a toolbox full of little tools, where each "tool" is another successfully ported Windows API call. Wine will be "complete" when every possible Windows API is duplicated in Linux-native code.
As such, it's a program that is very responsive to massive development parallelism - once you have a certain core functionality established, you can hand off large chunks of the API-space to other developers, and they can hack away at it at their leisure. Once they have a given API call working, it can be folded back into the main tree.
It's analogous to the SETI@Home or Distributed.net efforts, where an "API call" is a "work unit" Once the entire API "search space" has been completed, the project is done.
(Of course, this is an over-simplification. Windows itself is not so nicely modularized, with APIs calling APIs and lots of undocumented side-effects. But at a course level, WINE does suit parallel development pretty well)
But WINE is licenced BSD. As such, there is no compelling mechanism that requires that any "work units" be re-submitted back into the main project. It is entirely possible for aome entity to port a core series of Windows APIs, and then withold the source from the WINE community. Entirely legal, but very, very bad form.
And yet, that appears to be what TransGaming is doing. They are working on (from what I can tell from their website) porting the DirectX APIs - absolutely essential for getting games (probably the most compelling reason for using WINE in the first place) to function. They have staked out a key, core component of the WINE project "search space".
And they have licenced their portion of the work in such a way that it taints the entire project. In a nutshell, you are prohibited from _selling_ any product that uses WINE and their source. So if you want to write a DirectX Linux app, and sell it, you're FUBARed.
Furthermore, you can't use any of their source as examples or help in porting other APIs that may be related, because of the tainting effect.
The end result is very much like Microsoft's "Shared Source" where you can see the source code, but you can't actually _use_ it in any meaningful way.
It's worth retelling the story that lead to the creation of the GPL - Stallman was having problems getting a printer to work. He knew that if he had access to the source, he could get the printer to work, and that he could pass out copies so that everyone with a similar printer could get it to work too. The manufacturer refused to provide source, on the grounds that they made their money selling the drivers.
Which is more important, a company making money, or people getting their stuff working?
There are 3 essential aspects of software freedom: Universal availibility of source, Freedom to modify that source, and Freedom to redistribute modified source any way you want (as long as these freedoms are not denied to those further down the chain) TransGaming is providing the first two, but steps on the third - and by doing so, sabotages a worthy community effort.
If only WINE had been been released under the GPL, then this situation could not have occurred!
And a big, HUGE thumbs down to TransGaming, for taking this step in the first place! Yes, they are simply trying to protect their business model, and I understand that. But I offer than any business model that requires poisoning a community effort in this way in order to ensure its success is a business model that should not have been attempted in the first place.
I will not be making use of TransGaming's code, and I encourage others to do the same.
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Someone said it a few days ago in a discussion on Slashdot regarding console gaming, but I think it's worth saying here again:
It is a good thing that almost all games are written for Windows.
The reason is that we don't want a moving target for developers who are writing commercial titles. In the console gaming market, you can buy a PS2, XBOX, SNES or whatever, and only play games for those platforms on those boxes. Any developer who wants to capture the whole market must port to each platform. This is slow, frustrating and helps neither the game house nor the consumer.
In the PC market on the other hand, you can write only for Windows and not worry b/c you know you'll hit the vast majority of consumers. John Carmack is fond of saying that all Linux game sales ever don't add up to one medium selling Windows title. So people aren't about to write games for Linux unless they want the techincal challenge/fun.
WINEX is great. We need to accept the fact that people will continue to write games exclusively for Windows (and that they should!). And we need to find ways to make those games work on other platforms if we want to use other platforms to play them.
I really don't think this should be a pro/anti Microsoft discussion, just an evaluation of the reality of the situation.
well it's true, there is no reason that Linux can't be a superior game platform, it certainly has nothing to do with hardware limitation. the problem is this that Microsoft aggressivly went out and courted game developers, then they started the whole active/direct X program, while it was full of fits and starts ultimately it ensured that PC games led driving force behind PC sales and upgrades.
meaning it's wicked easier for developers to make stunning games on a Windows platform, and then it's stunningly more lucrative.
three years ago Steve jobs tried to start the same initiative and john carmack (who you should damn well know) was brought in to consult/lend legitimacy. still, three years later the state of Mac gaming is "much better" then it was but still "shitty" compared to what is released exclusively on Windows.
now the point i am making is this (and this refers to gaming so don't read too much into it), MS spends billions, and won. Apple Spends millions and stays alive, linux does not spend.
there are native linux games that kick so much ass, we should all be assless. and dammit, i will buy them, i will buy them all just because of the penguin on the freaking box.
but i like games. A lot. so I have to have a 2k box running. that's all there is to it. yes i have a PS2 and a Dreamcast and a game cube on the way. but that is for the tony hawks and the grand turismo's and the sports games. the stuff i prefer to play is not available on consoles (and would suck if they were) not available on Linux, and might be available for the Mac next Christmas (maybe).
So I hope WineX kicks all the ass left after all the native linux games got tired and stopped kicking so much ass. that way I won't have to duel boot my wee 12Gig laptop HD. and i can play Arcanum and Tux Racer on the same platform when i am out of town. (or hiding in my office)
A lot of people are complaining they have to pay cash for WineX, not quite true. Only pre-packaged versions. The source is available under the terms of the Aladdin license. If this codebase is not complete, would someone please correct me. I personally maintain two different installs of Wine, the main branch of winehqs wine, checked out of CVS every so often, and the WineX branch, again from CVS ever so often. Why both? The WineX branch provides DirectX support, but other advances in the Wine project are slow to get into WineX, for example I can get the QuickTime player to install under standard Wine CVS builds, but not WineX. :)
So if you don't feel like paying, build the source if you can. Takes a long while, and if it fails, oh well, shell out a bit of cash for your software for once
Transgaming is a decent company, even if they don't bend over backwards to give away all their work for free. This is a bad expectation for Linux users to have, and when commercial Linux projects receive such criticism, it makes commercial vendors more and more hesitant about releasing linux products.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
When it comes to boxed version, you sell all the platform ports in the same box.
Remember BeOS 4.5, if you purchased that you got both the X86 & PPC versions in the box.
Same again flr Claris Works, if you purchased that you got both the Win16 & Mac Classic versions in the same box.
Gobe's now doing it to, they are porting their BeOS office suite to Windows & Linux. If you buy the boxed version you will get all 3 versions in the box.
That's what Id should have done.
Stores hat having to stock multiple versions of the same application. By using cross-platform bundles stores don't have that problem
it was my desire to rid my life of that heinous win partition that finally pushed me to toss $15 at transgaming. i have been VERY pleased with the results.
my rationalizations: first, gaming companies are not going to give up writing games for windows. most of them won't even produce for the mac, so how can i expect them to pick up linux anytime soon? loki, loki, loki...save it. i have loki games all over the place, but last time i checked, loki doesn't do diablo. and that is basically ALL i do.
so i use winex, which gets me diablo. call me a pragmatist, but i like to use my computer for whatever i choose. the workaround that is wine exists and i don't mind using it.
i know this all sounds rather flamish, but i am trying to point out that pragmatism certainly won't kill anyone in this arena. i buy linux games whenever they are available rather than their windows siblings. but these are games we're talking about. free as in speech doesn't really apply (in my mind) and they certainly aren't critical to my (or anyone else's) existence. that's why they are called games.
will my use of winex change the balance of gaming? nope. if i only buy games made for linux, will THAT tip things? nope. it would take more gamers than linux has users to do that. is winex good or bad for linux? i don't know. if we suddenly had more games for linux, would it necessarily draw more people to it? i don't know. what i do know is that until the games i play come in linux flavors, winex it is.
disclaimer: all i use at home is debian and the only non-free software i ever run is game related...preaching to the converted and all that...
hmmm...
"I've bought versions of Windows many times over the years, and sometimes it does recognise all my hardware. When it doesn't instantly blue screen, sometimes I can play my favourite game for ten, twenty or even thirty minutes. Once I heard that someone completed a game under Windows, but it crashed a lot. Anyways, isn't Windows great?"
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Id's problem was this:
...
They had to justify making the Linux port. So they released a Linux version in its own box to see how it would sell on its own.
If I recall correctly, Linux supporters were asked to buy the Linux version and download the Win32 executables from the web site - so you were essentially paying for 3 versions. Also IIRC, the Linux version was released later. That didn't help sales much (since most people who actually want to game buy it quickly), and it makes you wonder if id took that into account
I disagree with the statement "id fucked up" because it was probably pressure from their publisher (Activision?) that made them release the Win32 version ahead of the Linux version and skewing the numbers. I'd like to see a less biased (but similar) test done again in the future. Unfortunately, it probably won't happen at id, one of the more influential developing houses in the games biz.
----- rL
After the last transgaming story, I decided to head on over and see what it was about. It would really be nice to have one less thing to boot to windows for, so I was pretty hopeful. I looked at the titles that worked, downloaded a build, browsed the message boards, and decided to try it myself. After I got it compiled and installed, I tried running things.
The real test for me was Baldur's Gate, something that didn't work with just plain Wine. WineX got farther than Wine, it managed to play the movies and actually start the game. However, just like Wine, the games stutter like mad and never achieve anything close to respectable speeds. I think it's a problem with my sound card, but I'm too lazy to set up the ALSA drivers, which may solve my problem. And I'd be really upset if I went to the trouble just to have it not work due to something else.
Anyhow, I'm planning on trying it again if I replace my sound card, or if I get time to try out ALSA, but I'm not holding my breath. No one else that I've seen has had this kind of problem (everyone either doesn't work or does, no one seems to have stuttering in all games) so I don't think it'll get fixed anytime soon. I really wanted this to work, and I'd still like to subscribe if I could get this working. But this is the classic problem with Linux and I'm not ready to fork over money if I don't believe it's going to work for me.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Transgaming is Legit, I'm subscribed, If theres ever going to be an Open source economy, This is it folks.
It gives you far more freedom than buying products from a store.
First you get to vote on the features and on what the programmers do, so essentially you have the power of an investor moreso than someone who goes to a store and buys a license to run some software.
Second, after you pay, its released and YOU own the code, however it takes 20k people for this to happen so i suggest you all help this company out.
People who dont play games should still subscribe, while you may not pay games, if you want other Linux projects to be funded in this way, then you need to first prove this method works by supporting it.
So do your part and perhaps it will help the open source economy, tis only $5 a month so unless you are some kinda penny pinching greedy bastard you can afford this.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Duh. if you want it to work you'll have to pay. Else its not going to work.
You have to get this out of your mind, that programmers need to eat too. If you want anarchy online, then subscribe and tell all your anarchy online friends to subcribe, and vote for anarchy online.
Until then, Anarchy online is going to stay way way down at the bottom of the list because the people subscribed want Black and White, and Starcraft working perfectly along with Civ3.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac