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What Industry Certifications are Worth It?
aries78 asks: "I've recently obtained my CCNP certification, and am contemplating on going for the oh-so-scary CCIE certification. In the meantime, I have been considering other potential certifications to supplement my resume while I'm working toward my bachelor's degree. I am curious, though, as to what kind of professional certifications Slashdotters have, and how, if at all, they have been of help."
Having a intentional lack of certs has gotten me more jobs because I have experiance.
Funny, but my CNE is now worth a lot more than it used to be, since they are so rare. I was a 4.x CNE that upgraded to 5.x in time to never touch it again until recently.
While I need other experience, the CNE has made people notice me in my interviewing lately. Kind of proves you've been in the field awhile.
I plan to go CCNP but CCIE is a waste to me unless you have a job already lined up that requires it.
MCSE, well nice to have, nothing I mention typically.
I guess it all depends on your goals. If you want to be a CCIE and travel a lot, etc, sure. NOT ME!
YES, there is a McDonald's in Hanoi Square.
I have a B.S.E.E. and a membership in the I.E.E.E. (ieee is not on my resume.) Do you need anything else? not really, although some people will go so far as saying you don't need the B.S. either.
I seem to get certified every couple years for Solaris Admin and Network from Sun. Not once has anyone ever asked me about it on an interview. I started leaving it out of my resume intentionally for a while just to see if it made a difference. And when I've brought it up at an interview I always get this look of "oh, thats nice" then a shift in topic to practical questions of how you would do something. So to answer the question , nope, years of on the job real world experience is always more important. 9 times out of ten they aren't going to teach you the real important stuff anyway. They are gonna teach you how to do the generic day to day of using the software and equipment when things are running smoothly for an out of the box environment. I guess it might be nice place to start after reading a book on how to do something or a little extra clought. But from what I've seen certification = desperate. Just prove yourself in the interview as being intelligent and a fast learner and then shadow the local guru in the group when you get there. And if you are already an expert, then no ones gonna care if you got it or not.
Aren't those little crunchy candies?
:) For what it's worth, I am also going back to school for my MBA in 2003, but that's more to let me break into management (everybody and their dog's got an MBA around here!)
But seriously.
I am A+, CNE 3/4, HPUX 9x/10x, AT&T Sys-V and I have various odd little programming and hardware certs (e.g. ISPF/PDF, HP-CZ etc.)
The only cert which has really meant anything is the CNE. In today's job market though, I'm noticing that a lot more head-hunters are scanning for certs just as a way of winnowing the mass of resume's which flood in for every position. (There's several thousand IT pro's out of work here in the Seattle area).
As such, I've done a bit of research myself, including some salary analysis and talking to various headhunters and have come up with the following list (which I hope to have acquired by June of 2002):
MCSA, MCSE, MCDBA, Network+, Linux+, LPI,
i-Net+, CNE 5/6, CCNA and CCDA
These are in no particular order, and please note that my experience is abnormally broad. I would normally recommend a much narrower selection based on a given individual's interests.
I just happen to have the background to pick these up with a minimum of studying so, hey, why not?
Hope this helps. Best of luck!
Assuming that you're talking about a big company, with all the HR people I've ever talked to, a college degree was the only certification they ever looked at. The other certs might be tie-breaking material, if you've got two equally qualified candidates, but that happens so rarely that it's not IMHO worth bothering with.
With smaller companies, it depends on the person (usually singular) who screens you: either all certs and degrees will be worthless, or that's all they'll base their opinion on, depending upon who they are.
Really depends what job you want, I suppose. A CCNA is good enough to get them to look at your resume for a lot of admin-type jobs. Smart employers will put much more importance on job experience than industry certifications. The only other certification that will really be useful to you is your degree.
OTOH, if you don't already have any job experience, your time is best spent getting an entry level end-user support job, and working your way up from there. Without a degree it's pretty much the only way in. Based on what I have seen in most support call centers, the mindless nature of such jobs is best alleviated by eating lots of bananas, scratching yourself, and swinging on the office lighting fixtures. Get your degree soon.
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In your current position (assuming you dont work fulltime yet), I suppose it is worth noting on your CV, and it may help you to avoid being caught with your thumbs completely green the first day on the job. But, most jobs are really about learning the environment, and the people, and the existing methods. As an interviewer, I am more impressed by someone who has made some free software that is usable, than I am with a certificate. Thats the honest truth, especially for a junior position, but even for more experienced slots, provided the applicant can demonstrate a good working knowledge of what the position requires, in addition.
Anyways, there have been lots and lots of extremely useful insight into this matter stored, for your viewing and learning pleasure, in the past.
Good luck. Just the fact that you asked here says something about your prospects...
sort of on the same vein, what do ppl think about post graduate degrees. My parents pushed me a little bit to go for a graduate degree, I chose instead to take an offer at a startup, citing work experience as being possibly more valuable than a degree might make me (I am primarily interested in the internet arena, not research).
I understand it can make a difference what area you are going into, but for the most part (read as most programming jobs) do ppl think there degree gets them much more than perhaps higher pay?
http://monkeyserver.com --- weeeeee
The "Certified Information Systems Security Professional" ® (CISSP) designation is a recently developed international designation for people involved in information security work. It is handled by the non-profit organization called " (ISC)2", the "International Information Systems Security Certification Consortium, Inc." They administer, test, and have a trademark on CISSP®. The first CISSP designations were conferred in 1994, and each year the numbers have increased.
With certification of computer professionals becoming more important, and the incursion of the Engineering field into computer-related work areas, it's a good idea to consider getting a formal designation. The ISSA and CIPS organizations have also been very supportive in promoting professional certification among their members. I've discovered that certification makes a difference in getting consulting contracts, and provides a higher level of trust, ethics, and expected professionalism in client relations. Recently, an incresing number of government RFP's for INFOSEC-related services have requested that consultants preferably have CISSP accreditation.
Applicants must subscribe to a formal code of ethics, and must have at least three years of direct work experience in one or more of the ten information security domains of the information systems security Common Body of Knowledge, in order to sit for the examination.
The ten domain areas are:
Access Control;
Communications Security;
Risk Management & Business Continuity Planning;
Policy, Standards, and Organization;
Computer Architecture & Systems Security;
Law, Investigation, & Ethics;
Application Program Security;
Cryptography;
Computer Operations Security; and
Physical Security.
The exam questions are multiple choice, and are oriented towards knowledge gathered by experience. Someone who just read some text books would have a very hard time passing the exam. Exam preparation training seminars, and a study guide with sample questions are available from (ISC)2.
For more details, see (ISC)2's new WWW site at: http://www.isc2.org/
"I figure you're here 'cause you need some whacko who's willing to stick his finger in the fan. So who are we helping?
I have one certification (Java Certified Programmer), and a Master's Degree in Computer Science. I have not needed any other certifications.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Or a juggernaut.
I have a cert with retsyn....
It was for a DBA position at an insurance company. I had a great interview, and they almost offered me the job on the spot. I got a call a coupla days later saying they gave it to someone else. He was Oracle Certified, fresh out of college, and came on about $30k/yr cheaper than I would have.
Since he was certified, they figured he was trainable enough to be worth their while. I guess they could have sent him to $20k worth of training and still come out ahead.
That is, however, the ONLY time it happened.
- Freed
"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
How helpful have you, O, revered slashdotter, found the SCJP or its many brethren?
With grammar like you have, English certification best get now.
Your employer will never know...
I can see your resume now:
"CCF, NJP, NEW, CCCDP, EEFG+, NET+, FU, CKY, OU"
The tresury board sets the Standards for qualifications of federal government workers. Currently they want minimum college diploma, plus relavant certifications to the job posting ie, A+, MCSE, CCNA,CNE etc.
I work in IT At A local college, less then 6 months out of school. my certs are
A+, Apple Product Profesional, AppleCare Service, IBM Desktop Laptop and Server and my College Diploma.
i plan to write the Network + before the year is up, and the CCNA after i get more time on CISCO gear.
Reading about all you guys deeply getting into one cert after the other, I wonder who pays all the courses and cert tests? You, or your employee? Having thought about some certification myself, I quickly left that path after realizing that I could easily spend like $20,000 on rather basic things. Yes, I have some experience in programming, adminning and networks, and my experience with lectures and test in general: they dont get you any further, maybe the cert papers do, but thats it.
Just wondering...
In the realm of industry certification, I believe there are three primary metrics that one must measure to determine which (if any) certifications are appropriate. In no particular order they are career path, geographical location, and current level of education.
I believe these all to be critical factors in the following ways:
Career Path - In the broad expanse that is today?s field of information technology, there are a vast number of specialties, niches and areas of work that one can engage in. If you find that you are particularly fond of a specific area, then it only stands to reason to pursue certifications that will not only bolster your existing knowledge of relevant material, but that are also widely recognized as credible by the industry. Of course, there are also generic certification such as network+, A+, I-net+, etc?however, I find these to be very common and less impressive to prospective employers?
Geographical Location - This is a biggie!!! The area in which you live will largely dictate the type and number of I/T jobs that are available to you. As such, it is important note trends and to tailor your certifications to meet the needs of the companies in your area. This will lead to a greater number of offers and more lucrative compensation.
Current Level of Education - This is arguably one of the most determinant factors in whether or not certification is appropriate for your situation at all. While I hate to speak in generalities, I believe that will be best to illustrate this point. Generally, an individual with a high-level, relevant college education is in need of additional certifications far less that one who may have only an associate?s degree or simply a high school diploma. The reasoning is actually quite simple in that the certification lend credibility to the knowledge and ability of the otherwise scholastically unproven individual, where the a person with a masters in computer science is far less likely to be questioned on their intellectual aptitude. However, as I stated, this is a generality?
Ultimately, I believe that attaining industry recognized certification can be highly beneficial in the short term with the ultimate challenge being to maintain and upgrade the certifications appropriately.
As for myself, I was a shameful college dropout with but two years of college to my credit. However, I almost view this as having been a head start on the computer revolution and have done quite well for myself with the aid of some certifications. I currently hold a MCSE+I (NT4.0), MCSE (Win2K), CCNA, MCDBA, CCA (Citrix), and a MCSD. Thanks to these certs, my years of experience, and a good line of BS I am now working at a fortune 500 company pulling in six figures!!!
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
Your thinking is all wrong. The real money is in the selling of certifications. Just make up some bullshit certification and test, charge people 50 bucks a pop to take the test, and stamp them as certified. You would make a killing. Just think of the money those test centers make from all the MCB's (Microsoft Certified Bullshitter) paying 100$ a test, pass or fail. The whole certification thing has gotten way out of hand to the point that all it is is paid advertising for the companies in many cases. Just put your experience on your resume-if a company likes you, you will get a job.
No-one seems to mention the Linux certs here well. I am aiming to be Linux+, LPA, LPI level 2, etc, along with the MCSE that I am. Anyone here knows the value of the linux certs compared to say MCSE and CCNA??
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
and am contemplating on going for the oh-so-scary CCIE certification.
If you think the CCIE is scary, you aren't ready to take it. Give yourself a few more years of work experience as a senior cisco engineer before you attempt it, and it will be easy. The CCIE is designed to be given only to people with lots of hands-on work experience.
Cisco has two types of certification programs.
The CCNA/CCNP tracks are part of "the revenue process", designed to sell books, training classes, and expensive exams. These lesser certs are just to prove "knowledge". You can pass a "knowledge" exam by taking a course, reading the books, without ever touching a router. Note that obtaining a CCNP only requires passing a simple written test and no other demonstration of experience.
The CCIE program is run by the customer advocacy group, and is loathed internally in Cisco by the CCNA/NP groups. The CCIE is a "skills and experience" exam, which cannot be sold as a neatly packaged course. The written part covers knowledge that can mostly be obtained only in an engineering program, and concentrates on a solid low level understanding of communication science. The written exam is used to weed out the wannabes from taking valuable seats in the true exam. The true CCIE exam requires you to demonstrate skill at cabling and troubleshooting, and presents problems that only years of experience will allow a quick enough response to the incredibly short time allowed.
Cisco uses the certification programs to ensure their channel partners have enough knowledgable people to keep the customers happy, and to reduce support expenses. Just last month Cisco audited all their partners in Europe, which had every headhunting agency scouring for CCIE's. I got about a dozen calls during one week with pathetic job offers. CCIE's who are abused or poorly managed tend to wander off into better jobs, there are very few Gold Partners who know how to keep their CCIE's happy (a lab full of toys, 6 weeks training/year, 6 weeks vacation/year, project commissions).
Most other company certifications are "knowledge" tests. Micro~1.oft's certs are a joke, and I know of several places which will not consider any candidate with MCSE on their CV. Novell's used to be considered a joke, the term "paper CNE" was coined because there were schools turning out CNE's who had no more than 20 hours total time with computers. I've enough horror stories of paper CNE's and MCSE's to last several lifetimes.
Some certs can only be passed with an appropriate level of knowledge and experience, I have a new appreciation of Oracle after reviewing their new tests. The CISSP is considered a comprehensive exam which cannot just be passed by simple studying, and they require you to document at least two years of direct work experience in security before allowing you to take the exam.
In the meantime, I have been considering other potential certifications to supplement my resume while I'm working toward my bachelor's degree.
As someone who hires, I can tell you I value a real degree from a real university much more than any certificates. A real degree means you learned many useful skills, not just passed a couple of written exams. I might be hiring for a network monkey position, but the job also requires good language skills, maths, report writing, drafting, and accountancy. If you have studied art history, music, or politics, you will be a much more interesting cow-orker during our bar trips^W^Wteam meetings.
Get your degree. In this shitty economy, you'll need that to get your foot in the door. When you do get a job, you'll certainly start at the bottom, but do everything you can to get your hands on equipment, even if only in your spare time. Later add some certs, and then you will be able to get the jobs you want.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
One interesting result was that the fastest growing certifications were Linux Professional Institute Certified (LPIC) Level 1 and the Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE).
I've often thought about getting my MCSE (back when I lived in Washington). I actually took one part of the test two years ago. I however, never spent the time to finish all of the parts. I now live on the East coast and it is almost impossible to find anyone who teaches or gives the test. I find it amazing how little of an influence Microsoft has out here compared to back in Washington.