2001 UCLA Internet Census

Merry_B.Buck writes: "UCLA's Center for Communication Policy has finished its second annual survey on Internet usage. Some interesting claims: online shoppers believe prices are lower in brick-and-mortar stores, and experienced Interneters are less likely to use chatrooms, play games, and download music than their newbie counterparts. An unrelated report from Forrester Research claims that Internet newcomers tend to gather at LookSmart and MSN portals, while old-timers prefer InfoSpace and Yahoo. [I'm suspicious of both surveys -- neither had a Cowboy Neal option.]"

Comments

Price

[Jonathan]

Having a lower price isn't really the advantage of Internet shopping -- the point is that brick-and-mortar stores quite often don't have the products you want. I simply can't find the books, movies, or CDs I want to buy locally, so I buy on-line.

Re:Price

[Lars T.]

And on behalf of all the privacy paranoids out there: they don't know who bought what.

I'm an 'old-timer' and...

[jcapell]

I used to use Yahoo exclusively until they started placing search results higher for pay. Now I use Google, and will until they start doing the same.

Niche Market

[kawaichan]

Online will always be serving the niche market, not the mainstream, I mean I rather drive down to the nearest futureshop to get my stuff rather ording it online and have to wait for it.

If oldies don't download music, p0rn, what do we do? paying 40 bucks a month just for slashdot?

I personally don't use any of those crappy portals, Google all the way!!!

Re:Niche Market

[Tuzanor]

Future shop has got to be one of the worst places to buy anything. If you look even somewhat at any prices that aren't in thier flyers, and you'll see what a rip off they are. The sales people are all commission driven and nag and chip away at you. If i see a good deal on CD-Rs i'm usually asked by 2 or 3 people to get to buy a damn computer and they don't stop at using every dirty trick in the book to get a sale!
If you are buying a brand name product(like a logitech mouse or something) then you can't really go wrong if its cheaper there, but thier computers are SHIT. They are all integrated with some of the worst computer components out there. I've seen some fucked up mobo/CPU combos coming from computers from that store!

Re:Niche Market

[Kwil]

I'm the exact opposite. I'd rather order it from home and get it in two-three days than piss around with traffic, bad store layout, sales-drones, crowds, and out-of-stock goods.

I figure I not only gain the time that comes from avoiding all those things, I also add a few hours on to my life by avoiding the stress.

Plus, I don't impulse shop as much.

Charts?

[The Great Wakka]

One of the charts looks like this, I kid you not...

All of the different education levels rose in percentage from 2000 to 2001! Apparently in 2001 381.7% of people on the internet had some level of education... hmm...

MSN is only popular

[Starship Trooper]

because it's the default homepage for Internet Explorer, and as we all know, 90% of people don't bother to change their defaults. I wonder how many of those MSN hits are people who actually stay on the site, compared to those who just let IE load it up on startup then immediately go somewhere else.

Re:MSN is only popular

[HMC CS Major]

because it's the default homepage for Internet Explorer, and as we all know, 90% of people don't bother to change their defaults Unless you buy your computer from an OEM, such as HP, which sets their startup page to a yahoo based, but HP customized portal.

Re:MSN is only popular

[RayChuang]

I respectfully disagree. :-)

You're forgetting that many online users do not default to the MSN home page due to the choice of ISP they use.

Remember, EarthLink/Mindspring users (that includes me) default to http://start.earthlink.net; AOL users default to http://www.aol.com; and other ISP's use their own selection of start pages.

Anyway, experienced 'Net users will choose their own choice of start pages or even start on a blank page (a pretty popular option for very experienced users).

yeah right

[vsync64]

online shoppers believe prices are lower in brick-and-mortar stores

Working in a brick-and-mortar store, let me just tell you:

HAHAHAHAHA!

We routinely sell items for at least twice the PriceWatch price. And people continue to buy from us.

survey techniques.

[Alien54]

somehow surveys that just ast what a person does without asking how they feel seems a little off base.

a better example is one I 've seen at radio free nation, where the current survey asks if you stongly support the war, or is it worried support, or relectant support, or conversly strongly oppose, or is it worries opposition, or reluctant oppsition.

There's a bunch of folks who think everyone's crazy!

This woould show soft the support for a position is. I can imagine a similar survey on the internet experience, Micorsoft, or Open source, or whatever.

How many people would have reluctant support of Microsoft, or are frustrated by their ISP?

more than one way to skin a cat.

Growth of the Internet itself

[bstadil]

These report is pure drivel. There is a very interesting report / Rebuttal from Odlyzko of University of Minnesota about the growth of the Internet itself. It seems that the numbers banted around is between 400% year and Zero. Second the makers of these reports can't do basic math.

Downloading music

[__past__]

Experienced net users are less likely to download music?

I think it's more likely that experienced users just create a pseudo-
newbie indentity on the fly, rather than waiting for a friendly
lawyer to speak with them about the advantages of Digital Rights
Management...

Old Timers vs. Newbies

[GreenHell]

*cough* *cough* I would like to point something out about this article vs. the item it points to, and I quote:

Some interesting claims: online shoppers believe prices are lower in brick-and-mortar stores, and experienced Interneters are less likely to use chatrooms, play games, and download music than their newbie counterparts.

While I haven't reached the stats on online shopping yet (at 95 pages, this thing is massive), but I would like to point out to the submitter of this article a few stats from one of the charts (new users (those less than one year) and very experienced users (five or more years in 2001) that is located on page 18):

1. Chatrooms:
   • New users: 6.5%
   • Experienced users: 1.6%
2. Games:
   • New Users: 5.7%
   • Experienced Users: 2.8%
3. Download Music:
   • New Users: 2.0%
   • Experienced Users: 2.8%

Now, last time I checked, 2.8% > 2.0%, so while, yes, newbies do play games and hang around chat rooms more (geez, they had to do a survey of that? I could have told them that), it seems that the 'old-timers' are (slightly) more likely to download music.

So let this be a lesson for you: Always make sure your facts are correct when submitting an article, it's a little less embarrasing.

Re:Old Timers vs. Newbies

[ThatComputerGuy]

Now, do you think by "chatrooms" they're including irc channels?

Seriously. I know damn well a lot of "experienced" people that are always on irc grabbing the latest mp3 packs or other warez on irc.

Taking that into account, I'm skeptical of the results for at least chatrooms.

Re:Old Timers vs. Newbies

[tomknight]

Hmm....

I suspect that the union of the sets of "New Users" who play games, visit chatrooms and download music is greater than a similar union of sets "Old Users", performing these activities.

In that respect, the statement "experienced Interneters are less likely to use chatrooms, play games, and download music than their newbie counterparts" looks to be valid. Let's face it, you're nit-picking, and that pettiness over 0.8% is pathetic.

If there's anything appalling about the statement you've taken exception to, it's the way that the noun "Internet" appears to have been made into a verb. Interneters, indeed....

Tom.

Portals?

[The Ape With No Name]

MSN

Looksmart

InfoSpace

Yahoo

Personally, my portal is Google for searching, Mutt and Sendmail for messaging, and /. for lameness....

Online shopping *can* be more expensive...

[bnavarro]

...If you have to pay for both sales tax AND shipping.

I have found living in California, where many of the e-tailers are, that having to pay CA sales tax (& sometimes even being forced to pay the higher Los Angeles city rate, even though I don't live there), and having to pay $2-$5 for Shipping & Handling per item, totally wipes out any online discount off of the retail price for a product.

See, B&M Stores do bulk shipping from major distributors, so the actual shipping cost is low enough to them so that they can "eat" the cost -- actually, the cost winds up being built into the retail price nicely for them (Plus, you pay the cost for the "final mile" shipping, by driving the merchandise to your house).

Online stores don't have that luxury. Their shipping costs are much higher. So they have to tack on the shipping costs, or lose a bundle, and go dot-bomb up.

I have no problem with this. But, when I am also forced to pay sales tax, the price of the product is likely to be un-competitive with the final B&M price, even though they have to charge sales tax too.

So every time I hear mom & pop stores and state governors whining about lost revenue to Internet sales, it really boils my pot. Because if they have their way, and ALL Internet sales are charged state sales tax regardless of point of origin (to say nothing if the govt. one day decides to levy a special federal level Internet tax on purchases), all online shopping will be un-competetive price wise, and nobody will buy anything online except for those hard-to-find items. And guess what, people? those hard-to-find items won't be there if companies can't make money off of common items as well!

Re:Online shopping *can* be more expensive...

[jandrese]

The trick is obviously not to live in CA. I live in the Northern Virginia area (in the "rich" suburbs of Reston) and the brick and mortar stores are almost always more expensive than ordering online (especially with Pricewatch scouring the net for low prices for me. The shipping costs are generally similar to what I would have to pay in sales tax. The worst part is that the shipping costs have gradually decreased over the years (adjusted for inflation) while the sales tax has increased. Still, if you are buy cheap items ($25-50 or so) you need to make sure the shipping isn't going to kill you, but how many people buy really cheap items online, or even comparison shop at the local brick and mortars? Most people I know just go down to wherever is convienent and pick it up. I'll probably never buy a standard NIC online because the local Best Buy sells nice Tulip based cards for $5-10. There's no point in really comparison shopping at that point.

Am I the Only One

[SevenTowers]

who thinks that portals suck? What kind of experienced user uses a portal? I'm just curious as wether somebody can enlighten me on this. I'd think experienced users know what they are doing, meaning they go directly to the most relevant specialised site that gives them the info they are looking for at that point in time. Personally, google is my choice. Fast, reliable, popup and ad free, and it contains a link to absolutly everything I could want (or almost)... I'm interested to hear your thoughts on why anybody experienced should use a portal.

Re:Am I the Only One

[Hal-9001]

all them girls at yahoo suck anyway, btw

Is that a bad thing? ;-p

What about Pricewatch / Shopper / etc?

[Hobart]

Brick and mortar stores have cheaper prices than online, eh?

• I guess that
• these sites have
• a lot to learn
• about that then ;-)

Who Did They Survey?

[Amerist]

How did this Internet surveys even get off of the ground? While MSN and Yahoo are certainly two of the most prominent search-engines around I myself still shun Yahoo because of its commercialism and MSN because I never know if I can trust the outcome of what I'm searching for.

Ever since I first discovered AltaVista I used it over Yahoo. Then, ever since I discovered Google I used it over Altavista. One would expect that as an Internet user "matured" they would move away from gaudy directory services and see the appeal of a less complex and more raw interface that brings them more direct information like Google.

I find it extremely hard to believe that Google didn't show up in the top two of "mature" Internet users.

(Of course being able to set my language to Gaelic on Google didn't hurt either.)

Amerist.

Re:Just because you have a PHd

[ThatComputerGuy]

And it's done by people from EUKLA! EUKLA! What good can it be if it's from EUKLA?!

(Just a little ribbing from the Cal Bears. Remember, a Bruin is a baby bear... now, who's yo daddy??)

Thou shalt not criticise Slashdot

[Sanity]

It has been noted that you criticise Slashdot in your post. You are clearly not aware that the purpose of Slashdot is to spread criticism of Microsoft, it is not intended to spread criticism of projects considered cool by the majority of readers, and it is definitely not permitted to criticise Slashdot itself.

Take note in future, any posting which expresses an opinion other than that held by the majority of Slashdot readers will be moderated down as "Flamebait" or "Troll". We don't want any debating on our website!

How to Spin Surveys

[Alien54]

The suggestion that comes to my mind is, "strongly" and "weakly" are weasel words that the surveyors can use to nudge the outcomes of the survey any way they like.

Mosty professional surveys by politcal consultants do that anyhow, by prefixing the survey question with biased viewpoints.

For Example:

1. Are you in favor of Advancing Technology?
2. Are you in favor of Innovation?
3. Are you in favor of Making Computers Easier to Use?
4. Would you consider supporting Microsoft if I told you that Microsoft was a Leader in Innovation, Advancing Technology, and Making Computers Easier to Use?

You would? Could you sign this petition?

End result: Most People support Microsft for being a Leader in Innovation, for Advancing Technology, and Making Computers Easier to Use

You can see how the biase was applied. you list out all the good things that people agree with, then align your candidate, product, company etc with the desired characteristics. This is far more complex then finding out how people really feel about something. But most posters are truly clueless about reading human emotion, and so you use a simply list.

For example "Strongly supporting the war " covers a world of sins, including Strongly supporting with an Evil Laff, or with Anger, or with Pain, or with Joy (happy to go to war) or what ever.

So it really depends on what the purpose of the survey is. Simply put while a majority of Americans do support the war, many do so with some kind of second thoughts. It is definitely not "Rah Rah Rah!" for this whole thing.

While surveys should ask what you "need to know", what you think you need to know, and what you really need to know often differ. To say that 90% of the people support the war is misleading if you do not know that many people have reservation, and will cut someone to ribbons when they start to really screw up.

Re:How to Spin Surveys

[Alien54]

This is about offering people an arbitrary (because the cost is nil) choice, then inferring from that what they will do if the cost is non-nil.

Well then the survey question would have to account for the circumstances, such as "if Bin Laden had killed your Significant Other, would you support the war?" Which is somewhat difficult to gauge as far as the validity of the result goes.

The actual effective support of the war via taxes verse the support vs votes and expressed opinions are mixing two classes of support. And the amount of opposition of needed to actually withhold payment of your taxes in opposition to a war is great indeed. Most people pay their taxes.

So the only way to conduct a survey that would satisfy your conditions would be to put people under an actual test. This could be considered cruel, given how many people are simply supported by social mechanisms, and would have a hard time without them.

From the questions, note that they do not ask people what they would do, but how they feel.

which is not invalid.

Do experienced users answer surveys.

[n-baxley]

I wonder how much these studies were skewed by the fact that most very experienced Internet users stopped filling out surveys years ago. They're either too busy, too paranoid, or have burned too many times by "surveys". How many of the people here would have contributed to this survey if asked. I'm sure somewhere in these 95 pages it talks about this, or at least gives the numer of experienced vs newbies, but I didn't read it all the way through. Will there ever be a poll that accuratly shows what experienced users do?

Looks hit-or-miss to me...

[ncc74656]

experienced Interneters are less likely to use chatrooms, play games, and download music than their newbie counterparts

I can buy two out of three...I had my fill of IRC eons ago and I've never been much of a game player (online or off). I'm not so sure that J. Random Newbie would know where to go looking for music, though; your average AOLer won't want to tie up his phone line for hours to download an album (assuming that his connection doesn't get dropped halfway through each file). MP3 downloaders usually have fat pipes available to them; your average new user won't want to fork over the extra $$$ for cable or DSL at first.

An unrelated report from Forrester Research claims that Internet newcomers tend to gather at LookSmart and MSN portals, while old-timers prefer InfoSpace and Yahoo.

My homepage is set to about:blank, the CowboyNeal of portals. :-) Their idea of an old-timer must be like Las Vegas' idea of an old-timer (if you've lived here at least two years, you're considered to have lived here forever). Real old-timers don't fart around with portals...if you have a homepage set at all, it's something useful like Google.