Slashdot Mirror
Playstation 2 Outsells both Xbox and Gamecube
Laurens writes "Despite various claims of both Microsoft and Nintendo, this article by the Los Angeles Times has the first independant salesfigures on all 3 next-gen consoles. And it seems the good ol' PS2 sold best this holiday season." I'm an hour into FFX and don't foresee turning my PS2 off much this week. Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the
Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
Walk in to Best Buy, Meijers, Toys R Us, Circuit City.
What do you see?
PILES of PlayStation 2's.
You've got to buy little Johnny SOMETHING! You can't let him play the Nintendo 64 for 5 straight years!
If Microsoft or Nintendo would have DOUBLED production, they still would have sold them out.
The problem is, they thought with the economy, and layoffs, they'd play it safe and only sell the small amount they did.
Now, Sony just gets farther ahead.
...at least as far as I know, is that it's hard to program for. However, a quick survey of my friends who've bought PS2's indicates that very few of them are actually programming on theirs. Looks like shrinkwrapped software is the order of the day. <g>
Actually, it's the low-level programming that makes coding for the PS2 an order of magnitude more complex than the other boxes--but that also opens up at least an order of magnitude more potential, as any code hacker knows. The question of "which box should we target?" is usually answered with a simple number, and it looks like PS2 has a lock on that for the forseeable future.
I've seen a few people saying 'Well, X-box isn't going to sell because its a Microsoft product' and I've heard a few say 'It WILL sell because it is microsoft' And when I was in the store last week shopping for my son, I realized something. Consumers usually don't really care about this, they care about price, because after all, they don't play it, their kids do. On top of this, kids could almost give a shit who its made by, just as long as mom and dad will buy it, their friends think its the shit, and the marketing is in the right direction. Its pretty obvious if you sit in a walmart this time of year and listen to all the little kiddies go, 'But brian has an X-box!!!!!' or 'I don't want that stupid X-box, brian has one and it sucks, I want a PS2!'
On the other hand, you have the older people that like to play them.. like myself. But thats a different story. =)
Can all fish swim?
Umm. That argument has been around for a while, and I don't get it. I'm not going to go to a Walmart looking for a Gamecube, and when I find they're sold out, say "Hm, I haven't bought a Playstation 2 in the past year, but since I can't find the thing I want, I'll buy it now!"
That argument might work if GC's/XBoxes were hard to come by for months like the PS2 was. If you shop around town or wait a week or two, you'll find the console you want.
I personally think it's just because both systems (Xbox and GC) have crap for games right now. I can only think of one game between the two I'd shell out ~$50 for (Super Smash Bros)!
The data used is over ten days old and doesn't include sales figures from Walmart, Nintendo's leading retailer. So the numbers aren't even close to being correct.
But, the games really make the difference, and I'm sure that the PS2 is killing on them this christmas :)
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
Actually, last Christmas was the most successful Christmas Dreamcast ever had - they sold a ton of games and systems, plus they had a year's back catalog to work with. However they still lost millions and ditched the DC.
Now I'm not saying Sony's going to ditch the PS2 or that the PS2 is going into the toilet but it's true that this sort of survey is pointless at this point in time. All consoles look good their second Christmas out (except Nintendo 64, which launched in 1996, had little in the 1997 season but kicked ass in 1998 with Zelda).
Schnapple
One has been out for over a year, while the other two have had 2 months?
Well
i) That must be why MS choosed a strategic launch date in the christmas lead-up
ii) Why they spent so much on advertising
They don't care about specs, they care about what they think is good
Which is based on who's PR wins, primarily using the launch figures.
MS picked the fight, they can't go off crying if the bigger kid gave them a bloody nose.
I'm not saying that the figures are correct or an absolute judgement, but that those who live by the sword should be aware that they may well die by the sword.
T
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
How could either of them possibly outsell the PlayStation 2 when neither had shipped enough units to even compete. Both Gamecube and Xbox are sold out, they couldn't have possibly sold more than they did. To make it seem as if they lost some sort of non-existant competetion is rather silly. Remember the first month of the PS2? I bet lots of consoles outsold it that month. Playstation One, probably even the old N64. It's not becuase they were better or anything, it's simply that Sony shipped fewer PS2's that month than most consoles happen to sell in an average month.
If there were more Xbox's/Gamecubes to sell (enough to meet current demand; there are a few of each still availalbe, but only in those god-forsaken bundles, and almost only entirely through the internet), I'm sure they would have probably handily outsold the PS2.
...can be found here concerning the Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 sales. The gist is that the PS2 will outsell all the others primarily because of the massive software base (remember that it plays PS1 games as well), and developers will be skittish to plunge resources into "the next new thing" when there's a well established audience for the PS2.
It's humorously written - and check out the rest of the site, it's a hoot.
I fully agree with the above sentiment. For years I was a poor college student unable to afford the latest and greatest consoles (Like the Playstation). That didn't stop me from playing games (and liking them) on friends/roommates machines or at conventions. Now that I'm finally out in the real world, I could finally afford to buy the console I coveted for years, but it is even better since I can buy a PS2 and get access to all of the old games in addition to the new ones. Throw in the fact that it is a DVD player and has component out and I was sold.
I don't care if it is harder to program for than the other systems, that doesn't seem to be slowing down the developers much so far. Even if the game developers declare it too difficult to program for, I'll rest assured that there are already way more games available for it than I'll ever find time to play.
Just my $0.02
I read the internet for the articles.
I've been thinking about a console for myself for oh, the past month. I'm really leaning towards the PS2.
Why?
It's the games.
Grand Theft Auto 3, specifically. But that's just me.
I've been looking at the offerings for GameCube and Xbox, and none of them are really all that appealling. Tony Hawk 2x? What the hell? Why not just get Tony Hawk 3? Sure, we all know it's the same game as the first two . . .
I don't want a star-wars game. Halo looks good, as does Luigi's Castle, but I really don't want to play them. I'm just not drawn to them.
PS2 has Final Fantasy 8, 9, 10, whatever they are. Metal Gear Solid 2 (hell, even the first one will play on it). Regardless:
I think Nintendo really fumbled. Really. Great that it's 100 bucks cheaper than the other two major consoles, but still, the games aren't there . . . bettter than the Xbox, but not enough, you know.
And this all is because of PS2's lead time to market.
I think that's about right.
Dan
The problem with these numbers is that it excludes Walmart. This really hurts Nintendo.
Nintendo priced the Gamecube $100 cheaper, and sells it as a family system. This combination makes Walmart especially significant for Nintendo. Walmart is their largest reseller, and is excluded from these numbers.
This is in addition to the obvious problems that during this time period, not all three systems were out. For installed base, of course the PS2 has the early selling advantage, but extrapolating anything from three weeks is meaningless when one of the three competitors wasn't on the market for one of those weeks.
However, if we pretend that it is relevants:
Sales per day:
Nintendo: 28666
Xbox: 38916
PS2: 35629
At this rate, Xbox will catch up with the Plastation 2 in a few decades. Nintendo should look better when the real numbers come out, as Walmart should help them catch up by a few thousand per day on their competition.
As far as platform adoption, Nintendo will be more dependant on Christmas numbers than the other consoles simply because it appeals to a younger crowd. XBox and PS2 are competing for the 16-25 market, Nintendo owns the rest of the market and has some presence in that market.
Look, ever since the "Sega does what Nintendon't" ads and the Mortal Kombat scandal in the SNES/Genny wars, Nintendo's weak side was exposed. In making a fun, colorful gaming system, it is easy to manipulate teens into thinking that other companies make "cooler" stuff.
Shrug, I loved my NES, my SNES, my brother's N64, and I'll love my Gamecube when I get it this weekend. My friends love their gamecubes. If the fiancee isn't kept entertained by the Gamecube games, we may pick up a PS2 and 6 or 7 games if the price drops (I'm not dropping $300 for the right to buy Frequency, FF7, FFX, Dragon Warrior 7), but even if so it is more likely to be for the PS1 compatibility.
Anyway, anyone who hasn't played SSBM (Super Smash Brothers Melee) or SMB (Super Monkey Ball) with three friends for hours doesn't understand how fun console gaming is. I play consoles mostly with friends, and we'll knock back a few beers while screaming and yelling during SMB or talking trash during SSBM.
I mean, to me, 4 player is more important than Final Fantasy, as I'll choose fun with friends over an RPG.
Alex
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Okay, your post was quite amusing.
1) PC games & hardware upgrades are cheaper then concoles
If the people have the "crappy" computer for work or school, they'd need to do a LOT of upgrading for most modern games to run well. Video card (which can be more than a console itself sometimes), RAM, CPU... you have to have a pretty fast computer to run today's games, and it's just going to get worse. The consoles will last for years to come without any upgrades. Will your computer? Most likely not.
3) The PCs get both the "cool new ideas"
This is the most laughable thing I've ever heard. Consoles ALWAYS get the strange new ideas. Jet Set Radio, Dance Dance Revolution, Fantavision, Chu-Chu Rocket, Vib Ribbon, Super Monkey Ball... the list could go on FOREVER. PC games are almost NEVER innovative. They constantly release the SAME GAME over and over with prettier graphics and maybe a few new features, but they're still the same damn game.
Finally, the PS2 is really designed to capture the "we can not afford a computer or DVD player" market
Actually, it's more aimed at the "we actually want to play games" market. Metal Gear Solid 2, Grand Theft Auto 3, FFX (today!), etc. These games have everyone raving, and are what most people buy their consoles for. People don't buy consoles because they're too cheap to buy a computer. They buy consoles because they know that the games will kick some hardcore ass, and they won't have to worry about "can my system run this?" or "which version of DirectX do I need to play this?".
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Not to trump this with outside info -- you're right about the differing periods -- but sales of XBox, at least, have fallen off precipitously since week 1. Not sure of %, but I'm sure we could hunt this down. Conversely, PS2 sales are up over the same period. So if we were to extrapolate on this basis, and not merely apply a multiplier of 5/4 or whatever, the discrepancy in ps2's favor is actually greater than there #s show.
god is just pretend.
And here's why.
You say VCR's are standardized. As in, they all play the same tapes.
I look at the GC game shelf. I see:
Super Smash Brothers. Wave Race. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky. Madden Football. Crazy Taxi. A nice lineup of Sega games.
I look at the X-Box shelf. I see:
Halo. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky. Madden Football. A nice lineup of Sega games.
I look at the PS2:
FF X. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky, Madden Football,a nice lineup of Sega games...
Get my point? Soon you'll be able to play 80% of the world's software library regardless of which console you buy. The only difference will be a few unique games and extra features (want DVD playback? Want a hard drive? Spend a little more for a different console. Want a better picture, better sound, more features? Spend a little more for a better VCR).
And don't get me started on PC gaming. I put in 16 hours trying to fix Max Payne issues on my PC before I got it running smoothly (new video card drivers! Download the patch! Check their message board for a workaround! Call tech support! Reinstall Windows! Download the latest version of DirectX!!!) Screw that. Let me pop in Halo or Perfect Dark or MGS2 and go. Plug and play, baby.
If it weren't for the Starcrafts and Civ III's of the world I wouldn't do PC gaming at all... somebody explain to me again why those games can't be done on the X-Box?
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
First, and I'm a fairly rabid Sega fan, "the most sucessful Christmas Dreamcast ever had" is true, but it hurts. You're right, of course -- it's just that at the end of the day this rings hollow given the hindsight that we've got.
Second, exactly. The only distinction that I would make is that the PS2's 2d Christmas is turning out to be just vast -- the software sales, which is, of course, where the loot is, are about 5:1 compared to console sales right now. That's HUGE.
Third, I'll tell you this -- XBox sales were off last week something like 85 % from their first week numbers. *That* is a powerful figure -- satiate the fanboys, give the rest of us enough time to lust after halo but realize that there's not much else, and what have you got? An installed base of a million, compared to ps2's 9 million -- and ps1's 45 million domestically?
I'm not a sony fan, or hater. But they own the console space. And as you point out, the big N doesn't care either way, becase of Zelda and Mario and Metroid and Pokemon.
I do wish i could play some halo, tho....
Hey, also, if you want an indication of how things are going, go check ebay -- it's very interesting. xbox's are going for anywhere from $260 - $320. that's less than retail in many cases. uh oh! for comparison, and i haven't done any rigorous analysis, cubes seem to be going for retail + 0 to 20 %.
On this topic, and now i'm wandering, is anyone doing statistical analysis with regards to modeling ebay bidding over time? I'm thinking about it a lot lately.
god is just pretend.
Strong third parties are BAD for Nintendo.
1. Nintendo would rather sell you Nintendo games than other games. If a console owner will buy 15 games over its lifetime, Nintendo would rather 12 of them be Nintendo than 7.
2. Strong third parties got them in trouble. They tried to keep them down during the NES days, but some of them got big. A few bolted to the Genesis, a LOT later bolted to the Playstation. Sony has no real longtime franchises.
3. Square is in financial trouble. Nintendo wants them weaker. The Sony investment helped them, but didn't make them too beholden to Sony. Apparently Nintendo owns (or owned) 20% of Square, at least at one point.
4. Square is the example. Nintendo wants developers to know that they can't screw with them. They are still the 800 lb. gorilla in this space, even if the Playstation had better penetration than the N64 (although not as much as Slashdot would have you believe... something like 30m N64s to 45m PS2s). Nintendo puts forth the least efforts to attract developers and is able to push systems. The 3rd parties tried to cut deals with Nintendo, so Nintendo ignored them and released its own games.
Users aren't loyal to Third Party franchises. They are loyal to franchises, period. Nintendo is in a strong position given that they have more strong franchises in house than anyone. Their franchises are probably almost as good as ALL of the Third Party ones, and that is by design. In the NES days, a Third Party could only release 5 games/year. This accomplished NOA's goal of only having great games, and NCL's goal of keeping the companies week.
Square is over a barrel. They are strapped for cash, and they are getting manhandled by Sony. Sony played nice while Nintendo was the big boy, now they are beating up the third parties. Everyone but Square gets to negotiate with Nintendo. Square will probably never be allowed to release another Nintendo system game, but who knows. They just have to kiss the ring... a LOT.
They helped kill the N64, which forced fans to either miss out on Nintendo franchises, Sony games, or buy two consoles. Buying a Sega console is one thing, Sega makes great games. Sony doesn't make games. I don't want to buy a second (or now third console) because Square decided to be retarded.
Square should suffer, then come back to the fold.
I see one X-box selling for $375 none of the other auctions have been bitten on. I see about 12 camecube auctions that are closing with sales, most in the $220-250 range. Most of the Playstation 2 auctions are on used systems going for $250. Based on the 'Ebay' factor, most people are finding the systems they want. Unlike last year where Sony cut PS2 production by 50% because of 'manufacturing problems.' If any conclusions can be drawn from the 'Ebay factor' it is that gamecube are selling out better than X box, probably because they have under a million units in the supply chain. Some PS2 owners are willing to part with their systems after a year of fruitless searching for games. More likely though these are people who have to be the first on the block to have anything new, and are selling the old PS2 units because they can't afford the xbox otherwise. Unless they're selling broken out of warranty PS2 units.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
I have never even heard of Amped and Munch's Odysee. I have played Project Gotham Racing and I don't see what the big deal is. It seemed stuck between an arcade racing game and a sim like GT3, with the benefits of neither genre. To each his own I guess.
Like I said, the Gamecube is the clear winner in my eyes becuase it has what I want out of a console gaming system. Nintendo relases games that I can play with a group of friends easily. Like Super Monkey Ball and Smash Brothers Melee. No learning curve, anyone can play, but they have tremendous replay value. Add on to that interesting and very unique titles like the upcoming Zelda and Metroid Prime to play when friends are not around.
It is a matter of personal preference I suppose, but you keep your PC retread titles and I'll keep my Gamecube :)
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.