Slashdot Mirror
Playstation 2 Outsells both Xbox and Gamecube
Laurens writes "Despite various claims of both Microsoft and Nintendo, this article by the Los Angeles Times has the first independant salesfigures on all 3 next-gen consoles. And it seems the good ol' PS2 sold best this holiday season." I'm an hour into FFX and don't foresee turning my PS2 off much this week. Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the
Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
The only reason the GameCube hasn't sold more than the PS2 is because the PS2 has been out longer. Around here in Rochester, and at home in Connecticut, you're lucky if you find a GameCube in store. PS2s are a plenty because Sony's been making them for a long time, and there are lots of game choices. The PS2 is good, I'm not putting it down. But look where the PS2 is now, then see where the GameCube is in how many months.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Microsoft spokesman David Hufford said, "Xbox has caught fire since launch."
Not exactly the best thought-out sound-bite to be offered to the press....
T
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
Sony's marketroids have ALWAYS given them the advantage in the console arena, even when facing off against superior consoles.
Of course, it kinda helps that the PS2 catalogue is HUGE, compared to the relatively meagre selection offered by the other two.
Backwards compatibility has its advantages, in terms of brand loyalty. Nintendo had the right idea by making the Game Boy range backwards compatible. Suddenly all the money and time invested in the previous console's games hasn't wasted. That's a huge selling point, especially when parents are deciding what to buy their offspring.
...at least as far as I know, is that it's hard to program for. However, a quick survey of my friends who've bought PS2's indicates that very few of them are actually programming on theirs. Looks like shrinkwrapped software is the order of the day. <g>
Actually, it's the low-level programming that makes coding for the PS2 an order of magnitude more complex than the other boxes--but that also opens up at least an order of magnitude more potential, as any code hacker knows. The question of "which box should we target?" is usually answered with a simple number, and it looks like PS2 has a lock on that for the forseeable future.
There's also The Legend of Zelda. Most people probably don't follow this as much as I do, but I bought the N64 for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I'm thankful they released a second one for the system (even though the sounds the villagers make in the game are horrible) so it was more than worth my money. The only other game I own for it is Episode I Racer which came with the console.
Why are they selling so many? Final Fantasy owns you that's why. :)
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
To say "it's been out longer" as though that's not a good reason to buy a console misses the point. It would be more meaningful to say, "it's been sucessful after a year and change". At this time last year, dreamcast had been out longer than PS2, by about the same amount, but had few big games on the horizon, and had been losing 3d parties left and right. And you can talk about the reasons for this, but the fact is that, not only has sony got a lead, they've made good given that lead -- just as the new systems hit the market, you get GTA3, FFX, MGS2, and all sorts of other games that may or may not be associated with acronyms.
What i think it *is* fair to say is that the fact that PS2 is outselling either of the 2 new systems isn't symptomatic of the futures of either of those systems. Nintendo always has a slow start, but they're in it for the long haul, and they've shown a consistent ability to milk their franchises. And Microsoft, well, whatever, they'll probably just release the next version of office only for xbox so all their corporate customers have to buy them, so they're ensured of success.
god is just pretend.
The data used is over ten days old and doesn't include sales figures from Walmart, Nintendo's leading retailer. So the numbers aren't even close to being correct.
The PS2 has the advantage that it plays ps1 games and DVD's.
Also if you have a ps1 what unit are you going to get? PS1 games don't look great but many are more fun than there ps2 conterparts and they are cheap.
Also more and more and better games are starting to appear for the PS2 MGS2, FF etc...
Plus the fact the sony appears to be able to churn them out quicker than demand doesn't hurt. That cube seems hard to find.
One has been out for over a year, while the other two have had 2 months?
Well
i) That must be why MS choosed a strategic launch date in the christmas lead-up
ii) Why they spent so much on advertising
They don't care about specs, they care about what they think is good
Which is based on who's PR wins, primarily using the launch figures.
MS picked the fight, they can't go off crying if the bigger kid gave them a bloody nose.
I'm not saying that the figures are correct or an absolute judgement, but that those who live by the sword should be aware that they may well die by the sword.
T
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
To the PS2's credit, there is quite a nifty selection of games to choose from in Sony-land. GTA3, GT3, Devil May Cry, etc. But this is a far cry from this time last year, when most of the PS2 games were mediocre at best. Give the Gamecube a year to pick up steam.
How could either of them possibly outsell the PlayStation 2 when neither had shipped enough units to even compete. Both Gamecube and Xbox are sold out, they couldn't have possibly sold more than they did. To make it seem as if they lost some sort of non-existant competetion is rather silly. Remember the first month of the PS2? I bet lots of consoles outsold it that month. Playstation One, probably even the old N64. It's not becuase they were better or anything, it's simply that Sony shipped fewer PS2's that month than most consoles happen to sell in an average month.
If there were more Xbox's/Gamecubes to sell (enough to meet current demand; there are a few of each still availalbe, but only in those god-forsaken bundles, and almost only entirely through the internet), I'm sure they would have probably handily outsold the PS2.
Considering Nintendo sold their entire 750,000 first shipment in the FIRST WEEK of release. That article is stating they only sold 602,000 in *4* weeks which is WAY WAY off.
Are you a distributor or are you simply a rabid fanboy? "Sold" has multiple meanings. It could mean that Nintendo shipped that many to units to retailers. Or it could mean that Nintendo has sold that many units _from_ retailers. The classic mistake is looking at the first of these numbers ("sell-in") and equating it with actual sales ("sell-through"). If a company quickly shoots out a press release with high numbers on it, it's usually sell-in.
You'd think that the PS2 would have lost its flash since the other consoles have newer technology. Technology moves quickly (think about computers one year ago..)
But it seems to be about the games, quantity and quality that is driving sales.
Also the figures are for the holiday shopinging season 2002. In total units shipped sony is way ahead.
Competition is good though.. Better systems and games no matter what unit you choose.
...can be found here concerning the Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 sales. The gist is that the PS2 will outsell all the others primarily because of the massive software base (remember that it plays PS1 games as well), and developers will be skittish to plunge resources into "the next new thing" when there's a well established audience for the PS2.
It's humorously written - and check out the rest of the site, it's a hoot.
Last Christmas, it was the Dreamcast that was the incumbent leader outselling the upstart PlayStation2, with far more Dreamcast games and peripherals on the shelves than PS2 stuff. Now the Dreamcast is floating belly-up in the top of the bowl and PS2 is king.
A lot is going to change between now and X-mas 2002.
-----
A console's success is based on the games it supports. The Playstation 2 has been out for a year and as a result, has a great library of games. The XBOX and Gamecube are brand new, and as a result, only have a handful of games each. If you want to compare capabilities of hardware, then the GPU of the XBOX is superior to that of the PS2. If you want to compare portability, then the Gamecube trumps them both. If you want to compare number of systems owned, then the PS2 wins ... but take a look at the picture a year from now ... when the XBOX and Gamecube have matured to the level that the PS2 has reached and those are the numbers that really count.
I've been thinking about a console for myself for oh, the past month. I'm really leaning towards the PS2.
Why?
It's the games.
Grand Theft Auto 3, specifically. But that's just me.
I've been looking at the offerings for GameCube and Xbox, and none of them are really all that appealling. Tony Hawk 2x? What the hell? Why not just get Tony Hawk 3? Sure, we all know it's the same game as the first two . . .
I don't want a star-wars game. Halo looks good, as does Luigi's Castle, but I really don't want to play them. I'm just not drawn to them.
PS2 has Final Fantasy 8, 9, 10, whatever they are. Metal Gear Solid 2 (hell, even the first one will play on it). Regardless:
I think Nintendo really fumbled. Really. Great that it's 100 bucks cheaper than the other two major consoles, but still, the games aren't there . . . bettter than the Xbox, but not enough, you know.
And this all is because of PS2's lead time to market.
I think that's about right.
Dan
Nintendo insists those are sell-through numbers. But who can trust them? They claim their initial shipment of 700,000 (150,000 of which went to rental places like Blockbuster, display kiosks, and the Mexican and Canadian market) sold out in the first two weeks and that they have sold - to consumers - more than 800,000 total.
If that's true then that is the fastest Nintendo has ever gotten rid of 800,000 TV consoles. If it's true.
Let me ask you this. Nintendo complained when NPD released their figures (which mirrored the article exactly, making me think they're using the same research) that they didn't take department stores like Wal-Mart and K-Mart into account, that they only surveyed speciality retailers like Babbages and Electronics Boutique and whatnot, and that Wal-Mart is in fact the biggest seller of GameCubes.
I have no way of knowing if that really matters or if that would change the numbers, but I can say that while my local Target, Babbages, and EB have been sold out of GC's for weeks, they keep reappearing on the shelves of my local Wal-Mart (as in, Nintendo is making Wal-Mart a priority for shipments).
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
The problem with these numbers is that it excludes Walmart. This really hurts Nintendo.
Nintendo priced the Gamecube $100 cheaper, and sells it as a family system. This combination makes Walmart especially significant for Nintendo. Walmart is their largest reseller, and is excluded from these numbers.
This is in addition to the obvious problems that during this time period, not all three systems were out. For installed base, of course the PS2 has the early selling advantage, but extrapolating anything from three weeks is meaningless when one of the three competitors wasn't on the market for one of those weeks.
However, if we pretend that it is relevants:
Sales per day:
Nintendo: 28666
Xbox: 38916
PS2: 35629
At this rate, Xbox will catch up with the Plastation 2 in a few decades. Nintendo should look better when the real numbers come out, as Walmart should help them catch up by a few thousand per day on their competition.
As far as platform adoption, Nintendo will be more dependant on Christmas numbers than the other consoles simply because it appeals to a younger crowd. XBox and PS2 are competing for the 16-25 market, Nintendo owns the rest of the market and has some presence in that market.
Look, ever since the "Sega does what Nintendon't" ads and the Mortal Kombat scandal in the SNES/Genny wars, Nintendo's weak side was exposed. In making a fun, colorful gaming system, it is easy to manipulate teens into thinking that other companies make "cooler" stuff.
Shrug, I loved my NES, my SNES, my brother's N64, and I'll love my Gamecube when I get it this weekend. My friends love their gamecubes. If the fiancee isn't kept entertained by the Gamecube games, we may pick up a PS2 and 6 or 7 games if the price drops (I'm not dropping $300 for the right to buy Frequency, FF7, FFX, Dragon Warrior 7), but even if so it is more likely to be for the PS1 compatibility.
Anyway, anyone who hasn't played SSBM (Super Smash Brothers Melee) or SMB (Super Monkey Ball) with three friends for hours doesn't understand how fun console gaming is. I play consoles mostly with friends, and we'll knock back a few beers while screaming and yelling during SMB or talking trash during SSBM.
I mean, to me, 4 player is more important than Final Fantasy, as I'll choose fun with friends over an RPG.
Alex
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Okay, your post was quite amusing.
1) PC games & hardware upgrades are cheaper then concoles
If the people have the "crappy" computer for work or school, they'd need to do a LOT of upgrading for most modern games to run well. Video card (which can be more than a console itself sometimes), RAM, CPU... you have to have a pretty fast computer to run today's games, and it's just going to get worse. The consoles will last for years to come without any upgrades. Will your computer? Most likely not.
3) The PCs get both the "cool new ideas"
This is the most laughable thing I've ever heard. Consoles ALWAYS get the strange new ideas. Jet Set Radio, Dance Dance Revolution, Fantavision, Chu-Chu Rocket, Vib Ribbon, Super Monkey Ball... the list could go on FOREVER. PC games are almost NEVER innovative. They constantly release the SAME GAME over and over with prettier graphics and maybe a few new features, but they're still the same damn game.
Finally, the PS2 is really designed to capture the "we can not afford a computer or DVD player" market
Actually, it's more aimed at the "we actually want to play games" market. Metal Gear Solid 2, Grand Theft Auto 3, FFX (today!), etc. These games have everyone raving, and are what most people buy their consoles for. People don't buy consoles because they're too cheap to buy a computer. They buy consoles because they know that the games will kick some hardcore ass, and they won't have to worry about "can my system run this?" or "which version of DirectX do I need to play this?".
-- Dr. Eldarion --
And here's why.
You say VCR's are standardized. As in, they all play the same tapes.
I look at the GC game shelf. I see:
Super Smash Brothers. Wave Race. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky. Madden Football. Crazy Taxi. A nice lineup of Sega games.
I look at the X-Box shelf. I see:
Halo. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky. Madden Football. A nice lineup of Sega games.
I look at the PS2:
FF X. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky, Madden Football,a nice lineup of Sega games...
Get my point? Soon you'll be able to play 80% of the world's software library regardless of which console you buy. The only difference will be a few unique games and extra features (want DVD playback? Want a hard drive? Spend a little more for a different console. Want a better picture, better sound, more features? Spend a little more for a better VCR).
And don't get me started on PC gaming. I put in 16 hours trying to fix Max Payne issues on my PC before I got it running smoothly (new video card drivers! Download the patch! Check their message board for a workaround! Call tech support! Reinstall Windows! Download the latest version of DirectX!!!) Screw that. Let me pop in Halo or Perfect Dark or MGS2 and go. Plug and play, baby.
If it weren't for the Starcrafts and Civ III's of the world I wouldn't do PC gaming at all... somebody explain to me again why those games can't be done on the X-Box?
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
Y'know Taco, some of us WORK or STUDY all day.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
Xbox has about all the games the PS2 does. Hell, even an enhance FFX, untrue MGS2"X", completely unconfirmed GTA3 in severe doubt right now, no release date and Rockstar has pulled all mention of it from its website and all the ea sports titles and everything else is coming over..
XBox doesn't have Gran Turismo. It doesn't have Devil May Cry. It doesn't have Jak & Daxter.
Not to mention Xenosaga, GrandiaX and a whole host of RPGs coming out first half of next year for PS2...
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
A number of people have pointed out that the newer consoles are in short supply so they don't have as much of a chance to sell.
Yet, if you check eBay XBox and Gamecube systems are going mostly at cost at this point (the ones that are selling at all). I personally think that XBox and Gamecube sales figures are bound to be a touch inflated at this point by MANY people who bought extra to sell on eBay, so there might be a bit of a soft market for both systems for a month or two.
I don't know if it's because there were two systems released this year or what, but at no point of either the XBox or Gamecube had the eBay demand the PS2 did last year. I'm not saying that means the PS2 is a better system or that it means anything about who will come to dominate in the future - just noting that demand for each new system is simply not nearly as high as the PS2 demand was (though they also had a more limited supply than the GameCube or XBox, I think).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Strong third parties are BAD for Nintendo.
1. Nintendo would rather sell you Nintendo games than other games. If a console owner will buy 15 games over its lifetime, Nintendo would rather 12 of them be Nintendo than 7.
2. Strong third parties got them in trouble. They tried to keep them down during the NES days, but some of them got big. A few bolted to the Genesis, a LOT later bolted to the Playstation. Sony has no real longtime franchises.
3. Square is in financial trouble. Nintendo wants them weaker. The Sony investment helped them, but didn't make them too beholden to Sony. Apparently Nintendo owns (or owned) 20% of Square, at least at one point.
4. Square is the example. Nintendo wants developers to know that they can't screw with them. They are still the 800 lb. gorilla in this space, even if the Playstation had better penetration than the N64 (although not as much as Slashdot would have you believe... something like 30m N64s to 45m PS2s). Nintendo puts forth the least efforts to attract developers and is able to push systems. The 3rd parties tried to cut deals with Nintendo, so Nintendo ignored them and released its own games.
Users aren't loyal to Third Party franchises. They are loyal to franchises, period. Nintendo is in a strong position given that they have more strong franchises in house than anyone. Their franchises are probably almost as good as ALL of the Third Party ones, and that is by design. In the NES days, a Third Party could only release 5 games/year. This accomplished NOA's goal of only having great games, and NCL's goal of keeping the companies week.
Square is over a barrel. They are strapped for cash, and they are getting manhandled by Sony. Sony played nice while Nintendo was the big boy, now they are beating up the third parties. Everyone but Square gets to negotiate with Nintendo. Square will probably never be allowed to release another Nintendo system game, but who knows. They just have to kiss the ring... a LOT.
They helped kill the N64, which forced fans to either miss out on Nintendo franchises, Sony games, or buy two consoles. Buying a Sega console is one thing, Sega makes great games. Sony doesn't make games. I don't want to buy a second (or now third console) because Square decided to be retarded.
Square should suffer, then come back to the fold.
I have never even heard of Amped and Munch's Odysee. I have played Project Gotham Racing and I don't see what the big deal is. It seemed stuck between an arcade racing game and a sim like GT3, with the benefits of neither genre. To each his own I guess.
Like I said, the Gamecube is the clear winner in my eyes becuase it has what I want out of a console gaming system. Nintendo relases games that I can play with a group of friends easily. Like Super Monkey Ball and Smash Brothers Melee. No learning curve, anyone can play, but they have tremendous replay value. Add on to that interesting and very unique titles like the upcoming Zelda and Metroid Prime to play when friends are not around.
It is a matter of personal preference I suppose, but you keep your PC retread titles and I'll keep my Gamecube :)
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.