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It's The End Of The Be As We Know It
JRAC writes "Be Inc. has replaced their web site's entire contents with information on the sale of Be to Palm.
Stock holders can find all relevant info on the Stock Information page.
BeOS 5 Personal Edition is no longer available from the site. Looks like it's time to hit the mirrors. Try ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/beos for files.
" The official sale was approved just over a month ago.
If only Be had released the source under the GPL prior to going under, BeOS could have continued and evovled. As it is it's something of a Neanderthal - an evolutionary dead end.
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
Is it me or is the black armband at the top of the logo new?
I just downloaded BeOs about three weeks ago. It didn't work with my video card, so I got rid of the installation file. The thing was ~50 MB and I was downloading on dial-up. Imagine how long that took. It would of been a shame if I had wasted all of that time, the video card had worked, and then this happens. We'll miss you BeOS, you sure were pretty.
BeOS... sigh... Such a great OS. Maybe Palm will GPL it, or the OpenBeOS (no URL, sorry: http://openbeos.sourceforge.net, i think) people will finish their clone. But the kernel... maybe it will live on. Maybe. New Apps will be released, but it will eventually fall into an Amiga-Style situation, except that Amiga is still around. Cross your fingers, and hope for a release of all the source code!
Everything is mainstream now.
A few days ago I went to Be's site to check out BeOS (as I had been meaning to for some time now).
My machine doesn't quite cut it for running Be (which is kinda sad), but it's bizzarre how the site barely seems to acknowledge that such an OS exists (they at least mention it once in their legal page)
What song is that from?
rofl. I'm using XP right now. been using it for 3 days. it the slowest OS I've ever used. even slower than KDE 2.2_2 on RedHat Linux, which is REALLY slow. Mostly because Linux can suck my balls :) FreeBSD and BeOS ownz you.
Why didn't you rub her tiny hairless pussy with your finger?
And the answer, unfortunately, is not to Be. I don't know much about the company, but I played with the OS, and it was pretty nice. I liked the GUI enough that my Afterstep desktop is clearly BeOS-inspired...
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
Even though BeOS may not be the most user friendly and feature rich operating system around, it was one of the most advanced OSes of its' time. It's still a great little OS that is excellent for multimedia development. BeOS can play BeOS talking blues.mp3 louder than all my other operating systems :)
As operating systems have come and gone, one trend has been impossible to avoid. Driver support is next to nonexistent for anything other than Windows, and increasingly Linux on the x86 platform. This doesn't have anything to do with the ethos of open source, nor does it have anything to do with the quality of the operating system. BeOS absolutely kicked ass, it was an incredible attempt at exactly what the industry needs - a clean OS designed for today's desktop needs.
Unfortunately, this isn't what hardware manufacturers want to support. They want to support Windows and maybe Linux. From a conspiratorial standpoint, you could always think about it as the hardware manufacturers simply sticking to Windows because the power curve keeps increasing so often, new parts are always in vogue. From a more realistic standpoint, it's likely because the manufacturers are broke due to economic conditions, or simply too inexperienced to handle multiplatform development. Can open source volunteers make good drivers? Sure, we've seen this with xfree86, but look at what's happened to X. It's huge, considerably bloated, and with the exception of a very few window managers, ugly and unwieldy.
The Be kernel and design methodology were excellent, with few major flaws. The file system design was incredible and should be the first thing remembered if anyone does try and develop another operating system, or add support for it to Linux. Unfortunately, I just don't see evidence that the open source community can come together to create the kind of experience we're starting to see from Mac OS X, in regards to the Be effort. You need hardware, you need vendor support, and you need -rapid- development to get momentum going.
OSX's major flaw so far has been performance, because the BSD/Mach codebase it's built on it simply unwieldy without further refinement. Too much RAM is sucked up by the GUI, which at least manages to be the most functionally attractive one out there. It does what it needs to do, looks good doing it, and actually does mange to innovate, something that hasn't honestly been done since the original MacOS. Say what you will, but the windowing paradigm hasn't evolved much until transparencies became a feature of a commercially successful OS. Apple was able to make this leap by having control over the drivers, and the operating system. As a ten percent underdog, that's not the bad kind of monopoly. Particularly as Apple increasingly, yet slowly, warms up to open source.
Do I support work on OpenBe and like projects? Sure. Do I expect they'll change the world? Not at all. I -wish- they could, but if a system with as many developers as Linux still fails to impress me as a desktop solution due to clunkiness and the interface nightmare that is X11, I just don't think open source will be able to develop an interface that'll compete for user friendliness.
Will I use Linux and X11? Yes, of course. But I'm not the average home user, and that's where the battle for vendor support for an OS lies. I hope someday open source will come around and realize this.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Wrong. XP is the fastest and most secure operating system available.
Microsoft said so.
I've only recently jumped on the bandwagon with BeOS, but I'm already Extremely impressed with the responsiveness, feel, and power of the Operating System.
I was looking forward to some kind of os updates... with the right supporting programs, this OS could be what makes me switch full time from Wi...er...that other OS...
This is absolutely fantastic...I mean...I've been using and experimenting with computers since I was 13 years old...(so...cripes...18 years???Yeesh...) And this new (to me, at least) os is making me feel like a little kid again...when hardware wasn't cheap, and coding HAD to be tailored to be fast...It's very apparent that a LOT of hard work and love went into crafting this...
Palm? Are you listening? PLEASE don't kill this... Extend it. Release it. Open Source it...Continue it...ANYTHING but kill it...
And..um...Yeah...it's pretty keen...
Sig currently under construction. Mind the gap....
Is there anyway to get the PPC version of BeOS R4 anymore? The one that ran on the original dual processor BeBox, and the PCI series of 604 PowerMacs.
It's a shame, 'cuz I was just thinking about installing R4 on my old PowerMac 7500/604... I was really looking forward to some OpenGL red spinning teapot action.
~Jeff
In their opening statement, notice how "Customers" comes a dead last behind "Shareholders" and "Partners" in who they value?
Perhaps if you value your customers more, you wont run into these sort of problems.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Here is an interview with David Nagel discussing some of Palm's plans for the Be assets. This second story is from OSOpinion, and is more speculation about a BeOS based 32-bit OS for Palm due in 2002.
Found these links through BeGroovy.
"And like that
if you are homeless, then where do you put your nice pentium computer? a computer is equal to a homeless man's lunch and i think a homeless person would rather eat than surf the internet.
Now you can turn that argument around on me and say that a platform isn't worth porting to until there is a set of ported apps existing that make it worthwhile, so someone has to take the risk at some point, with the possible benefits of being first-mover.
That may be true if it weren't for nearly total sautration in the desktop OS market. Everyone in the US who wants a desktop PC already has one (or two). There is very little grwoth in this market, in fact it is arguably flat. Couple this with the fact that 95% of desktop users use Windows, and that is why you will never get ROI on an alternative desktop system at this point.
Last time I downloaded BeOS personal edition, I was able to lockup the entire OS by issuing the "kill" command on any process, even the notepad app. Which led me to think, why put something like a kill command into the OS if it's going to go schitzo when I use it?
This was on a stock install of BeOS personal edition, on a machine with memory I tested that turned out perfect. Has BeOS been "fixed" since then? Any good community resource sites?
I always found it frightening to talk to an Amiga user. There were lots of reasons but probably one of the biggest was this strange opinion towards software developers. I think the reasoning went something like this: If we pay for anything and everything that gets written for our platform, companies will see it is profitable to write applications for our platform and so we'll get a whole lot of applications. This is sort of the "begging for scraps" mentality that BeOS users felt too. It makes sense in a way, but it has some undesirable effects. Firstly, a lot of fly by night companies jump onto the platform and sell really crappy software at rediculous prices and people buy it, not because it is good or even useful, but to "support the platform". Secondly, the majority of developers for the platform become commercially driven. How can I say this about the Amiga platform you may ask? After all, the Amiga was *the* platform of the enthusiast programmer. I think the gaming industry and to a lesser extent the demo scene sucked all them up by the end and you cant really include them in the equation. In my opinion, the real killer is shareware, and in particular "nagware". Firstly it baits you with the illusion that the software doesn't have to be paid for, and then it switches to a "gimme gimme" ultimatum mode that it cant really back up. Strangely, a lot of people even paid for crappy shareware. Not that I'm saying all shareware is crap, but some of it is and if after 30 days you're not satisfied then you should delete it. But that's not the way it worked. Either people would reinstall it for another 30 days or they would actually pay for it out of misplaced guilt or this idea that if you pay for crap you will get something other than crap in return. I've never heard of anyone demanding a bug fix or an extra feature before they sent in the registration fee, have you? But that's the kind of actions that really could make shareware great, I pay you, you supply the product I actually want. The same goes for Free Software, however, in this case I need not pay the original programmer, I can pay anyone to fix my bugs or add features, but does anyone do it? Anyone? No. Both systems fall short of the mark for delivering a feedback loop that can be controlled by the software consumer to deliver great software to an alternate operating system. Maybe in a few years AtheOS will be trying to woo software developers and we'll see it all happen again, but maybe, just maybe, someone will come up with a way to get good software onto the platform in proportion to the enthusiasm that fans feel towards their alternate OS. I cant wait.
How we know is more important than what we know.
i ran xp for ~3 days as well. it wasnt that slow. the eye candy was fun to toy with at first, but then i realized that the os is s'posed to look like that and i would have to fight through a mac-esque environment in order to get any work done. that wonderfully bloated piece of crap was wiped off my machine quickly. I've never run kde on redhat...actually, ive never run kde...i dont like task bars...im an enlightenment kinda guy...tho with how ass redhat is, the slowness of it, the bulk, and the broken applications that come with it, I would be up for renaming it to redmond linux...cept that name is taken see? ...
id agree with linux sucking your balls...esp if you thinking redhat is what linux is :) what a crappy distro that is...tho free bsd is right up there in my mind with redhat...but i cant argue...i have been hooked on be since 4.5...i was tear bound when I read that Be was no longer...so sad. but i have my be 5 prof, and i will continue to use it...my dualboot of openbsd/beos works just fine for me....
$>apt-get install slackware
XP isn't particularly stable compared to whatever UNIX flavor you want to name, but it's a hell of a lot better than any of the older Windows versions. It's also a much faster interface than KDE or Gnome, and more intuitive.
Be will be missed. I have BeOS R5 on my old IBM ThinkPad (Pentium 133/32 megs RAM) and it flies. It is rock solid and reads my PCMCIA Ethernet Card without drivers. If you look at BeBits.com, you'll see new apps are being released for BeOS all the time. Be will live on. I love using AbiWord on it and transfering those files seemlessly to my Gnu-Darwin box.
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
BeOS might not be done yet - the Palm - OS version aside, I have heard rumors that Palm is looking to build a sub-pc notebook (i.e., WinCE league) using BeOS, which is a lot closer to the PC operating system than somthing which runs on an 8mb Palm device.
Even if the source isn't released, any work that is done commercially to keep the code alive is better than what has happened to date.
Hopefully Linux will be next...
For those who are interested in the possibility of the BeOS being continued, check out BeUnited.org. Originally "a place to find and support teams for the development of high quality BeOS software", they are now "leading an initiative concerned with the licensing of the BeOS from Palm, Inc. and its subsequent upgrading, development and professional marketing on a global scale".
If they can be successful in licensing the OS from Palm, then the BeOS can continue. They currently have 136 new products or projects in their developer survey. Head over to the site to see how you can help!
Also, for those that don't know, there are several other really good sites dedicated to the BeOS:
The "sourceForge" of the BeOS: BeBits.com.
News and a discussion forum: BeGroovy.com.
Another news site: BeNews.com.
And, of course, the site that sells BeOS 5 Pro, and the Office Suite (available for Windows, too!) that goes along with it: Gobe.com.
libertarianswag.com
Must suck for all those people who baught Be at it's IPO price of $6.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
...but there is nothing there. An empty directory.
Deluxe Galaga still is the most addictive shooter I have ever come across. Deluxe Pacman is the best Pacman available as well. BTW these two games are now totally FREEWARE!
Tank was a great shareware game as well. Alot of the newer artillery games are based on it. Worms also started out as a bedroom shareware game, a kind of cross between Lemmings and Tank/Tanx. There are literally thousands of worthwhile shareware/freeware titles available.
The last available commercial developers are currently mainly solely concentrating on AmigaDE and AmigaOS4.0 software developments. In alot of ways freeware/shareware make more sense than open source software. For instance if Linux would actually truly become a desktop operating system it will be extremely vulnerable to hackers. Software source code is freely available to them and it extremely easy this way to abuse securety holes. Commercial closed software is the way to go for the desktop IMO but not from morons as MS. But with more competition we will finally see some good software developments taking place.
Mark Twain went broke investing in the best linotype machine on the face of the earth. It could do anything and everything. However, people wanted the machine that was easier to get and "good enough".
There are tons of great software titles available for the Amiga. If you consider the sheer amount of FREELY available high quality software titles avaiable for the Amiga, it`s not a bad idea to get AmigaOS XL running on your PC.
The .com I worked for considered GPL'ing our code to save it from the bankruptcy courts and nasty property lawyers but our lawyer said that would not work. Other companies have tried to dump IP and other physical property to save it from the creditors but it doesn't work. That is probably why Be didn't do it. That and Gasse is a stupid French man. French people deserve whatever life throws at them.
I d/l'ed Beos litrally last night - the ftp site was still up, not a whiff of closing down on the site.
Truly sad.
Buy some shares of Palm stock, then go to the stockholders meeting and demand to know why they would refuse to license BeOS to a publisher, and receive checks every 3 months. There might even be a shareholder lawsuit in that.
OSX's major flaw so far has been performance, because the BSD/Mach codebase it's built on it simply unwieldy without further refinement.
Gah. No. OSX has performance issues, yes, but they have zilch to do with Mach/BSD. That codebase is over 15 years old, and is quite mature and refined, thank you.
If you don't believe me on this, grab a PPC mac somewhere, install LinuxPPC and Darwin (the Mach/BSD core of OSX) on it in turn, and time some test compiles in console mode. Linux will win, but the margin will be small and consistant.
OSX's performance issues are all several layers up, in the presentation and windowing systems. Apple scrapped NeXT's old Display Postscript windowing system to build Quartz and Aqua from scratch, and that is one huge heap of immature, unoptimized, and feature-iffic code there. Additionally, a quick look at "top" on most OSX boxes will show you that an inhuman amount of memory and cpu slices are being eaten by the "TrueBlue" OS9 emulation process, aka "Classic."
The first problem will be resolved as the Quartz codebase matures and as newer video drivers start to offload the work onto the cards. The second problem will go away as people find fewer and fewer reasons to run Classic apps.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
While talking about alternative futures it's interesting to think about what would have happened had Apple used the NT kernel instead of NeXT or Be. According to Gil Amelio, Gates was on the phone almost every day trying to convince him that NT was the best route. Amelio's book is an interesting read for this very subject and gives some insight as to why Apple went with NeXT instead of Be or Microsoft.
>that.
Give it up. The sanctions against you for filing that *frivolous* and bad faith suit won't put enough into Be's/Palm's cofferes to bring the OS back.
The bare statement, "We believe that the long term prospects are better if we don't do that" are sufficient to win the cas. It's called the "business judgment rule."
Of course, the case would never get that far before being dismissed with sanctions . . .
hawk, esq.
Well, crap.
This is a sad moment for me. I remember being thrilled upon first discovering BeOS. Multi-threaded down to the kernel level. I could at last put something on my Mac that would give me a 'modern' OS. Started learning how to code for it. They tried. Guess it's like making decisions in a maze. Sometimes you run out of options and get stuck.
BeOS will still run on my computer, I don't have any plans of switching over to a different platform at the moment. See, the sad thing is not that further BeOS development is halted and we will probably see it lose more and more of its users and developers until it's really gone; no, I could live with that. If there was a replacement. It was no problem for me to sell my Amiga, because I saw a new future: BeOS, A system in the same spirit, small footprint, exceptional performance and a straightforward architecture so you could tell what every file was for. Try this with any other current system, you will fail.
But now it's hard for me to leave the BeOS platform: I don't see anything replacing it, there is no successor. The current GNU/Linux distributions (and I still don't like the term GNU/Linux as it does not inlcude the non-GPL'd XFree86) are by far too complicated in their architecture and there is no common API with a documentation to it like the BeBook. Developing a full-blown application is a PITA, as you have to look in dozens of places to find all the information you want. Windows XP is as well incredibly bloated compared to BeOS and is behind in the responsiveness and although it is not based on the DOS derivates it still carries lots of legacy stuff in its API. MacOS X comes closer, but it needs some optimization to get near BeOS.
Don't get me wrong, all of the systems mentioned abover are in most parts good, modern operating systems and I use all of them almost daily. But whoever proposes one of them as a replacement for the BeOS experience obviously never really used BeOS, or wrote a program on it. You can read many reports in BeOS forums from people who tried Mandrake or Windows but just don't get the joy in computing they had with BeOS. And the article from Scot Hacker on OSNews, it's filled with disappointment between the lines. From his past articles on BeOS you can tell that Scot was a real fan of the the BFS and BeOS' filetyping and he surely misses it in MacOS X as much as I do.
So technically our situation ain't different as it was at the release of BeOS R5: The BeOS is still as exciting as it was and it still offers the same power and performance as it did. That's why I will continue using it. When will I stop? As soon as I find some other system that creates the same kind of fascination in me. Until then, all other systems will be tools to get work done, but not a fun hobby as BeOS is.
Hey Bob -- if Linux has a 0.24% desktop marketshare, how big is (was) BeOS's? 0.11% Whatever -- there's probably more people who run Windows 286 every day than ever ran BeOS.
In summary, you are trolling a pretty small userbase.
My machine has been all Linux for several months now. Its not as bad as I thought it was going to be, but its not great either. After tons customization (XFS, pre-kernels, preemptive + lock breaking patches, custom compilations, f**king with fonts for days on end, etc) Linux feels almost as fast as Win2K. Most of the time, anyway. All my Galeon windows still freeze up for several second at a time while one of them is loading /. (I miss multithreading), AbiWord still has butt-ugly non AA fonts, XMMS still sometimes skips when I'm doing multiple compiles at the same time, GTK+ apps still dump on me at totally random moments, Sylpheed won't copy and paste into gedit, and the GNOME file panal is still as braindead as ever. Its not all bad, however. Compiles run faster than they used to. Urpmi is truely nifty. Sylpheed is a good mail client, and XFS is an awesome filesystem. I finally have good compile tools (ICC), and I've found the power of 'vi' because I've been forced (thanks /etc!) to use it so much. Still, its not BeOS. This is depressing...
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
if you are homeless, then where do you put your nice pentium computer?
How bout up your arse?
Isn't it funny. If all the resources of one community sacrificed for the other we'd have one superior OS to stand up to the monopoly.
It looks like everything will stay splintered. One OS down, another to go, says Redmond.
OS X is trying to do it but too many people won't support it for that "extra" couple hundred bucks of premium and superior hardware.
Eew. Nice visual. ^_^;
>Be Inc. changed directions so many times that it made your head swim: MacOS replacement, BeBox, PPC, ia86, desktop OS, media OS, embedded PDA OS, yadda yadda yadda.
Actually I always thought they should have stuck with the BeBox concept and ran with that as a sort of Third Way between Mac/PPC and Windows/x86. Yes, I realize that making hardware is expensive, but by starting small and going for the multimedia/publishing market as well as positioning themselves as a possible replacement for the Mac (back in the days when it looked like they were going under) they might have been able to build a small niche for themselves. They could also have advertised themselves to the remaining Amiga users as a replacement for their fave machine after Commodore went belly-up back in '94. From there, who knows? Just a thought.
With the "it coulda been a contender if it was only open source." Excuse me but the reason be was so great is because it wasn't open source but the concerted effort of a few brilliant developers, not the fragmented bloatware byproduct of a million amatuer code monkeys like your average linux distro. I love open source and all, but it's not a good model to build a fast, efficient and stable operating system like BeOS. I like to enjoy using my computer, not spend hours of my time trying to get the latest, slow-as-hell version of X running so I can finally have support for something that was included in every other OS from the get go. Seriously people, you berate microsoft and all, but the last time I checked the average Suse or Mandrake install is larger than my Win2000 install, and 5 or 6 times that of an average Beos install.
So R.I.P BeOS, the only operating system that was ever a joy to use. I would pay serious money for any linux distro that could still run smoothly while playing 4 videos, a music CD, and rip a track from that CD at the same time while compiling the latest BeShare source with mods in the background. Alas....my mandrake partition still has problems crashing when I try to play solitaire.
I'm sorry, but I resepectfully disagree. I do not think that "open sourcing" it would have been good for BeOS. Open source software seems (to me) to have a less-than-quality feel and look, except for the *BSDs.
BeOS would've ceased to be BeOS.
I highly doubt any open source initiative could've created OS X. I highly doubt and open source inititative will successfully copy OS X.
Just my two-bits, NO flames intended.
..BeOS will Be the only OS that can get my nipples hard for a long, long time.
No matter how good another OS is, now matter how outdated BeOS will become, to me nothing will ever Be as good. No OS will ever Be as sexy, as much fun to use. (I'm sorry is all this writing Be with a capital letter becoming annoying?). I guess I'm a zealot.
Linux lacks any trace of cohesion and X is too slow, especially after Be's mega-responsive-fully-multithreaded goodness. I simply can't stand KDE and Gnome, not after using Be's oh-so-close-to-perfection GUI. Windows is too slow, bloated and insecure. Moreover, I oppose Microsoft on principle grounds. Mac hardware is too expensive and OSX probably too slow.
..Will I ever fall in love again?
Here are a couple of good mirrors for BeOS 5.01 I noticed:
e
t ion.exe
http://ftp.pcworld.com/pub/system/other/beospe.ex
ftp://ftp.kando.hu/.3/beos/beos/BeOS5-PersonalEdi
"I have not failed. I've simply found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Edison
I meant that shareholders of Palm stick deserve to know why the company would turn down the chance to license BeOS to an outside publisher.
That's about as stupid a decision as cutting off all your revenue to pursue internet appliances was for Be.
mr. Gates will be smiling again.
if there was a good office suit for BeOS (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation program, calendar, mail client with appointments etc), BeOS would have lived and thrived.
To the people who actually have used BeOS (I still ust it). I believe the reason we never saw a 3D driver for nVidia or an official 2d driver, was M$FT was tying up nVidia's hands because it was using GeForce in Xbox. I think nVidia would have released drivers for it, but M$FT bullied them not too or they would drop them from Xbox.
I know we have the 2d driver from a 3rd party and there really was no real need for 3d yet on BeOS, but just the same monolothic company crap of MSFT.
BeBits
BeUnitedis heading up the initiative to license BeOS from Palm and if that doesn't succeed then OpenBeOS will be the primary focus of the BeOS developer community.
Once you've tried BeOS it's very difficult to go back to another OS. Yes i use Linux on one of my servers and am very happy with it, but i have two other PCs running BeOS and an old PowerPC running MacOS (slow slow slow).
BeOS is my OS of choice. I can connect to Sybase or MS SQL Server databases, PostgreSQL databases, run Apache etc etc etc.
Checkout BeOS, BeBits and BeGroovy. And checkout exactly what BeOS can do for you.
cheers
peter
Biggest problem I see with X? No real data compression for remote X sessions. If X offered the ability to work well in low bandwidth environments for remote terminal sessions, then you'd have a Citrix Metaframe killer - and *that* would make a lot of companies reconsider their heavy Windows investment.
Microsoft has seen the future, and developed the Windows Terminal Server product to efficiently support remote GUI sessions. Sure, the idea itself stems from Unix - but they took it to the next level. The Unix world still really hasn't. (Unless you count the commercial Tarrantella product, which like Citrix, is big and expensive.)
Of course people settle for "good enough" sometimes. In a perfect world, we'd all want the best of everything - but finances limit that.
I've honestly never seen someone drive a Geo Metro who made a lot of money, unless it was a spare car to rack up mileage on.
What usually happens is money runs out, so you have to pick and choose which things you'll go "all out" on, which things you'll save some $'s on and live with simply "good enough".
In the world of OS's though, it's not quite the same situation. You hit on the key point though. People use whatever comes with their new PC. They don't consciously think "Windows isn't as good as Linux, but it's good enough for me so I'll just stick with it." in most cases. Instead, they just fear the unknown. (If I erase this hard drive, will I ever be able to get something else up and running properly on it? Will it be worth all the time I'll have to spend to do it, even if I can?) If all new Dell computers shipped with Linux, then people would use that, rather than wipe the drive, buy a copy of Windows, and load it on.
Back to the car situation, it's sort of like an aftermarket dealer offering high-performance drop-in replacement engines for Geo Metros. If you just bought a Metro, would you do this? Maybe, but probably you'd say "Aw gee, that'd void my manufacturer warranty, and I don't know if I could really install that myself, even though they claim it just drops right in. I better forget that idea."
I'd like to give that a try now that the proceeds for its sale won't be going anywhere.
Anyone know of a mirror that has it? (the PRO edition, not the personal edition).
Thanks.
How is this a troll post?
I disagree. The XP Luna GUI is much slower than even KDE 2.2_2.
Enlightenment rocks. XP is the best Windows version so far, but it's still crap as. It's way too user friendly and slow. I need to be in control of my OS. I can do that with BSD :)
Yes, RedHat is a pathetic distro, and I was only using it as a performance comparison. It is one of the most bloated and insecure Linux distros around.
XP would be nice on a 1ghz, 512mb RAM, 20gb HDD, 64mb display card system.
I just did a quick check and BeOS5PE is available on Morpheus/KaZAA.
http://www.JournalOfTheRandom.com
I have Xp pro on this machien and dual boot with Mandrake 8. Both have been trimemd of all the fat and useless crap. The machine is a 333mhz Cyrix MK2 with 320 mb ram and Win XP runs circles around linux running KDE or gnome
If you do not know how to take control of any Winbox, then you shouldn't be spewing. You have many ways to touch almost any aspect of Windows possible. Some stuff like your hardware drivers you do not need to touch because the hardware companies know infinately more about their hardware than you ever will.
Seems like some of the stockholders and investors would sue Be Inc. for failing to follow thru with due diligence or something for all of the bad business decisions they made along the line.
You dont make much of an argument. Due to the immoral practices of today's "animal industry" you choose not to partake in the consumption of their product. Is this supposed to achieve anything? I guess you are of the belief that if enough people stop eating their product they will go out of business and all the friendly little animals will be set free. Well it aint happening. The industry neither knows, nor cares about your silent protest, for exactly that reason, it's silent. Believe it or not, there are actually people on this planet who are opposed to the same thing as you (animal cruelty) who proactively do something about it. They infultrate piggery units and get pictures of red neck cowboys beating animals to death. They use this intelligence to convince people to boycott on a massive scale, or have units shut down in countries that have animal cruelty laws.
But that's not what a vegan is about now is it? A vegan doesn't eat any animal products, including milk and cheese. I think you would be hard pressed to find a maltreated dairy animal (with any reasonable definition of exploitation that is). Apparently our vegan friends would have us believe that animal life (at such a low level as their individual cells) are somehow more important than plant life. ie, it's ok to eat a turnip, but it's not ok to drink cow's milk. To be purely reductionist, cell nucleii are sacred. But I submit that if vegans were to somehow achieve their goal of the elimination of the "animal industry" they would have a profoundly negative effect on animal life. Both the chickens in my moral conundrum we bred in captivity. Actually, they were probably bred in cages and had their beaks torn off at an early age so they dont damage each other, but that's your argument, not theirs. Our vegan friends would have us never have brought these chickens into existance in the first place. Apparently our exploitative intentions somehow forfit the animal's chance to have a life (no matter how short or unpleasant that life may be).
If your gripe with the animal industry is limited to the maltreatment of animals I would suggest that you behave proactively about it, but dont support those who would do away with the animal industry in the name of sacred animal rights -- these people want to end animal's lives before they have even started.
But assuming that both the chickens below were (and respectively will be) maltreated, what do you do? What is the moral thing to do? Do you eat the chicken (having consumed meat that came from an animal that suffered) or do you condem the live chicken to die a long horrible death?(note that this is a modification purely for your moral ideology).
How we know is more important than what we know.
If they have *any* expectation of using *any* of the technology in the future, it is far from obvious that licensing it is in the best interests of the store.
hawk, esq.
http://get.qnx.com/
Similar look and feel and nice multiuser features...and the fastest install ever...
XP is more stable than 2000? I'm not so sure about that. I'm not even sure that a typical Redhat system is more stable than a typical 2000 *Server installation, even though Redhat isn't Unix, it's GNU.
Just because XP is newer doesn't mean that it is better. NT4.0 with current patches is very stable, but 2000 is much more flexible, and the interface is really usable. There are even some tasks where I'd prefer to be using 2000 to Be 5.0 Pro, I'm slightly embarrased to say. I'm quite likely to actually use BeOS inside of VMware soon just to see how it handles, and that will be on top of Win2k Advanced Server.
As great as BeOS is, it still has't reached Unix-class stability, and if you count Terminal services, then Win2k *Server is better at being a multi-user system.
Regardless of which is more performant between KDE and XP sludge, the BeOS interface has elegance and responsiveness to spare. KDE (and every environment I've used on X11 to date) is awful to use because of it's single-threadedness... even Windows for the past 5 years has had a responsive environment despite buggy applications hanging or crashing. With Unix alikes, then Nutscrape will just die, and disappear on you with no warning. Windows will usually pop up an error message and lock up your browser windows, until you accept that it has crashed and that you are slightly screwed. with BeOS, I push the error message to the side, and continue to peruse the rest of my web pages until I am satisfied, then When I am done, I save any interesting bookmarks as empty files with metadata attributes, and finally let the crashed application take out the damaged browser. That is the ONLY way to browse.
Now if only a decent Java VM was ever implemented.... well, at least I didn't need to worry about porn pop-ups.
-castlan,
Unfortuantely for all, I have mod points right now.
And BeOS to blow them on!
The "moral" thing to do, is unchanged by the threat. If I was going to eat the chicken anyway, then no problem. If I have reasons for not eating it, then I don't... I cannot be held resonsible for your later acts of violence. My not eating the chicken will not bring it back to life, just as my eating the chicken will not prevent further poultricide.
The only hope we have is to function as a society, with trust, communication and accountability. If I cannot trust you with the life of a creature I value, then I have a judgement upon you for future reference. If you send a steaming pile of shit to my employer, I can deny that it was mine. Hopefully there is a good avenue of communication between my employer and myself, or else my employment would have been in jeoparydy anyway.
-castlan
don't want to void my mod points.
DoH!!!
Now I RELLY hope that my post was helpful.
"It's also becoming increasingly clear that the only honest-to-gods challenge to Windows desktops is going to be as it always was, Apple.
as a serious OG Apple user (Apple II and a 128K Beige Toaster, have a G4 Tower 2' away from me right now, so please keep your flames to yourself)
It's actually becoming increasingly clear that Apple is on Microsoft's Life Support System, probably for antitrust reasons.
The high-end home/soho/small biz market that has kept Apple going would bail in legions if MS withdrew Microsoft Office from the Mac platform. That's why Steve's Funny Fruit Machine Company has been on MS' tip these last few years...
for one example, where's Apple's own great browser, the number one most important app for ANY consumer platform?
"Apple's finally rising to the challenge, with the -support- of Microsoft's Macintosh Business Unit"
this would be how many times in the last decade that Apple has "fully committed" itself to the business market?
i remember 3 major announcements on this, and one of my coworkers remembers 5.
for just one biz sector example, Where's Apple's Killer SQL Server RDBMS? that's the biz equivalent of the browser, the key app that would sell to midrange businesses....
"Instead of considering Apple a closed-source evil, look at them as a company that knows how to do three things well. They know how to design killer hardware, they know how to create a user interface that doesn't suck, and they know how to -survive-. You don't get bitch-slapped in the marketplace by Microsoft for nearly two decades and remain in business by living on your stock inflation alone."
i COMPLETELY agree with all 3 points.
None of which has anything to do with what the business market wants.
1. Commodity Prices on H/W
2. Near-Commodity Prices on S/W
3. Readily available VAR/Integrator/Consultant services at competitive prices.
4. Huge accumulation of shrink wrapped biz apps with minimum expenditures on data conversion
5. Off-the-shelf mid-tier solutions that are installable/operable/maintainable by lower-cost employees
I've loved virtually all my Mac's over the years. (except one LC and one Performa) Just about slept with my 840 and my VX, but Steve and Apple are NOT driven by consumer needs
they are driven by the "Neat Factor", it's given me a lot enjoyment over the years, but it's not a perspective that will earn you a big consumer and mid-sized biz market share, they care much more about the "Cost Factor"
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
Several months ago, the "Save BeOS" campaign sponsored an auction, designed to raise money for and gauge interest in BeOS. I signed up for a "Save BeOS" T-shirt and a limited-edition BeOS CD. Only 154 of the numbered CDs were made, and they were sold on a "first-come, first-served" basis. In case someone ordered a limited-edition CD too late, charges were not billed to credit cards until the final products were shipped.
I just got my merchandise in the mail today (January 2, 2002). I have the prize! I got SAVE BeOS Limited Edition CD-ROM Number 000057!! And, yes, my whole point in posting is to brag and show off my prize! I am *so* thrilled! I'm almost afraid to touch it (but, I'll manage, I assure you).
I salute a really great operating system, and the developers who worked to make it so.
Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)