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Bridging the Digital Divide with Linux
mpawlo writes: "I think you would be interested in a story on Advogato submitted today, discussing the digital divide and the role of Linux: "With respect to locating parts with lowered cost on software. There is one candidate the would evenly fit the requirement. As of this writing, there are several OS out there having those properties, but there is only one having a large developer base and community scattered around the globe that can act as support contacts. The name is called GNU/Linux. ... Bridging the Digital Divide requires an enormous amount of work for the techonology sector. A huge responsibility is placed on those who wish to take up the challenge. Current technologies in software, specifically, the Linux OS is a good candidate to play the role." Read the entire story."
Linux helps, but it's not everything. Hardware is a much larger up-front cost than an OS, and there are always ongoing fees such as for internet access.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
There _IS_ no digital divide.
:) Heh, hard work and determination paid off. :)
Period.
Listen
When my family was making UNDER $20K A YEAR, hell, WELL below 20k a year, we still managed to afford a PC.
Why?
PRIORITIES. Simple.
If a family puts their childern's EDUCATION before _EVERYTHING_ else then they can do just fine. No new fancy assed $200 nike shoes (WTF is up with poor people expensive ass almost disposable quality nike shoes?), no CANDY (I saved _ALL_ of my money up for new computer HW. Every penny. Take advantage of Free Lunch programs if you have too), NO ski vacations, NO going on an airplane to visit relatives, and so on.
Repeat
THERE IS NO DIGITAL DIVIDE that CANNOT be overcome with HARD WORK AND DILIGENCE.
Now medical coverage on the other hand. . . . . grrrr.
OBTW: It was a nice feeling to be 12 years old and have more cash in the bank then your parents.
Of course aluminum went for alot higher price in those days too, heh.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
What about Windows XP having a 14% lower cost of total ownership than Linux? So much for bridging the divide!
Don't mod me, bro'!!!!
First of all... "Digital Divide". When the hell did we all start speaking like politicians?
Next: Linux has better tech support...? What? I know that many linux users are willing to help out with problems, but they don't always know what they're talking about. At all. I've had people tell me all kinds of shit that didn't work.
Now I realize that they mean well, but most people aren't going to want to try what one guy said, find out it didn't work, read through all the documentation, get quite confused, post to a mailing list, and eventually give up and reinstall. If they were using Windows or MacOS, on the other hand, they could have just called right off... and those operating systems are included free with the computer.
Sometimes closed source companies have an advantage. I think this is one of those cases.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
I think that spending large amounts of resources to eliminate the "digital divide" is a waste of time and effort.
The real problem in the world is that the economic policy of rich countries (the G7 countries---but primarily the US, given the demise of the Soviets) serves to keep the majority of people in the Third World impoverished.
Promote education, health care, and worker's rights throughout the world, and we'll be in a position to eliminate the "digital divide."
Trying to eliminate the digital divide directly is akin to going to a homeless person on your street corner and handing him a Palm Pilot with Internet access. He's not in a position to use it to his advantage. His problems are deeper than that.
It would be better to combine both operating systems to create a new OS that would compete better with Microsoft.
What is the point of having two seperate development projects of a compatible UNIX operating system? Wouldn't it be better to have just one OS base like Microsoft does when they ditched the Win9x base?
Instead of splitting development on two different OS's, one OS would be able to bridge the digital devide much better.
As another poster has pointer out, the software costs are only part of the Digital Divide. In that area, Linux has many large advantages
However, there are other areas that are part of the Digital Divide. There is also the hardware aspect (the largest expense) and the knowledge aspect as well. Again, another poster has already discussed the hardware problems.
Even if we were to give every poor/underpriviledged person in America a free computer running Linux, it would do little to bridge the Digital Divide. With it, we would need to teach them at least the basics about how to use it and, more importantly, how to find instructions on how to do more. Tools without the knowledge of how to use them are useless.
I don't buy this whole "Digital Devide" concept. Back in high school, I worked in a grocery store. There were many adult co-workers that would be considered the bottom of the working class. Some of them worked two jobs.
One day one of them brought up that he wanted to get a computer for his son, but he obviously couldn't afford anything new. I sold him a 486 class PC with monitor and modem for about $100, which was around what they cost back then, maybe a little less than what they cost. He could get on the Internet, and his kid could get computer experience.
If a man working minimum wage can get a system from the trash bin of a geek who also worked for minimum wage, for a couple days pay, then all these people whining about the "digital divide" are mostly rich people who couldn't imagine what it is like to actually have to work hard to get the things you need.
There are many other examples, some of the people I chat with on IRC are what would be considered very poor in the US sense, and have basically put together computers from with others have thrown out.
They have the exact same access to information that someone with a 2Ghz P4 does.
It may not be as fast, or as flashy, or a "rich media experience", but that stuff isn't important anyway, when you are arguing that this underclass won't have access to the same information that the upper classes would.
I don't know how it is in other countries, I don't claim to, but here in the US, the "digital divide" is a fabrication.
I know, you will say that I didn't sell him an OS license with the computer. That is true. The only thing left that can create a digital divide is software that costs too much to buy, and ways to prevent users from running unauthorized software.
So while I argue that there isn't currently a digital divide, laws like the SSSCA could easily create one by ending piracy by people who really can't afford the software.
As far as free software goes, I couldn't have put Linux on his computer. First off because this was 1995 and I didn't know what Linux was, and second off, he would want to be able to install commonly available software. I don't know what this says about free software, but when people get stuff from their friends, they want to be able to use it in their computer. Sneakernet is still big among the non-geeks. People pass around software programs, just like the 1980s C64 user groups. They want to be able to run this software.
I don't know if this message has a point, at least upon re-reading it, it seems pretty disjointed, but I hope it makes sense.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
The digital divide is often an ethereal concept without any hard facts to show its actual existence. However, it is easy to see when various indicators are compared and contrasted. Take this "Globalization Index" prepared by Foreign Policy Magazine. The results are very much skewed towards countries with advanced tech sectors. This chart of the gulf in the digital divide over the past 5 years is particularly interesting.
Many people here were complaining about the project where a computer in every home was promised.
The biggest complaint was Linux upkeep, and hardware. Hardware doesn't have to include GeForce cards, or even x86 machines. Any cheap maybe even diskless machine could be enough.
In my area, one of the neighborhoods that need help is adjacent to the downtown area. Many of the people live in a relativly small area too. It's also within blocks, including surrounding blocks, of our main library branch.
A network of computers could be linked the this existing system. I also suggest that the 'net' should be wired with/to the library. You can fight over small details such as what type of connections should be used - but if we are talking a 'kick start', much isn't needed.
We all know that an old[er] machine can run linux well, and even better; they can be controlled and configured from a distance.
Why give away free computers to play quake? Give people enough to get on the internet easily and quickly. Because we have all the source-code available, anyone can tailor the computer to boot into the gui and give maybe, a few icons to point you to the web or other services.
Don't give anyone 'root' passwords. The computers are public property and are managed by the library. If the user wants a printer, they can get one. If they want to save things that are private: use a disk. Restrict snooping by the city, but simply remind the users that it's not 100% safe. Logs will be kept, but not reviewed unless asked by a judge.
The users basically have no rights on the system. They can play games, go to uproar, even post to slashdot. But since the library controls the system they control the software, the maintenance, and access.
Maybe offer two DNS servers and let the user just hit a button: "Restricted Access" or "Unrestricted Access". Once set, it's set. The computer pics the correct DNS server with the correct DNS entries.
Basically, no frills, no problems. After initial setup, one skilled person could maintain all the computers. Journaling filesystems save the computer from crashes and if something breaks, the user reboots it with the CD in... reformatted, reinstalled.
If the city chooses to do so, offer a place to save settings online.
Get your Unix fortune now!
I have seen a comparison done on the difference between MS Tech Support vs. The Psychic Friends Network.
:)
It is obvious who should win but just in case you want to be sure go and see for yourself
What a lot of people want is a machine where they don't really need to get help. What they want is something that is about as complicated, or even easier, than programming a VCR.
1.) Linux with a major-league GUI (Gnome/KDE) is getting almost as resource-hungry as anything out of Redmond or Cupertino.
2.) Most Linux distributions are pointing themselves towards the Latest And Greatest hardware, not towards making elderly machines useful again. There are 486en being ground up for scrap every day or winding up in landfills.
The answer to this would be a distro specifically designed for old machines. Much of the groundwork has already been laid by attempts (both successful and not) to bring Linux into an embedded environment. It's not as sexy a project as writing kewl games but it's NEEDED. The old computers that enterprises throw out on a daily basis could be put to use by the less fortunate. However, the big distros aren't gonna get it for this old iron. Certainly not Mandrake. Maybe not Red Hat. Maybe not even Debian or Slack.
If you want to really DO SOMETHING to help the less fortunate get wired...this is what it takes. I'm not a programmer, so I really can't be a part of this. But not being a programmer doesn't mean I can't see the need.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
* Girls ever wish you could pee standing up? Stop squatting in the woods, start using urinals. My ex-girlfriend showed me. I can teach you. Individual or group lessons available.
This is going to sound like a broken record, but its hard to have a computer when you don't even have electricity.
Id like to hear people from countries where they had to skimp and save for computers, like India, where even thou the pay is low, people still buy computers and Internet access.
I have a friend in Croatia, and he talks about how he seen people get killed in the local wars, worried about getting drafted, and not being able to finish college. Digital Divide, how about stopping the damn race/holy wars so people can at least progress from the iron age.
-
War is not nice. - Barbara Bush
From the article:
The name is called GNU/Linux
I read this as 'The name is stored in a variable called GNU/Linux'.Fine...
I don't care what the name's called, what is it?
Consider basic telephone service. Almost 6% of households in the US do not have telephone service. (See also here and here.) If we as a society were really interested in bridging the "digital divide", shouldn't we be trying to help the 6% of our population who are still living in the 1800's, rather than trying to help the (relatively well-off) 50% or so who have most 20th-century technology but simply don't have internet access?
and trash their equipment rather than recycle it back to those who use it have a wealth of hardware available that could be used for this bridging purpose.
:)
Even equipment that is 3-4 years old is still useful for a linux workstations and web browsers. Older equipment like this which could be donated, could give these people a chance to figure out how to use computers and the internet without a huge investment of money. It would also have the added benefit of starting them out with Linux and other open source software and they would have a better chance of being loyal to our cause.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
What exactly does "underprivileged" mean anyway?
If you take the word at face value then anyone who is not privileged is in fact under-privileged. By that definition the majority of people in this country are "underprivileged."
But that isn't what the word means of course. No, this particularly evasive euphemism is nothing but a PC (aka BS) term for being poor.
For the land of the free and the home of the brave there sure seem to be a lot of people who are either too much of a coward or are not at liberty to call a spade a spade.
Sad......
P.S. This post wasn't aimed directly as the previous poster, I know the term is used even by people who aren't full of shit (AKA politically correct)
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
I work for a Boys & Girls Club in one of the more depressed cities in the Unites States. We get tons of equipment and software donated to us from all sorts of companies, organizations, etc. The real problem is not the cost of the items, but rather the cost of the support and the lack of qualified people who want to work for a non-profit.
It's all well and fine to say that Linux costs next to nothing, but it is much harder to find people to support it. I know most places would rather use software which cost more up front but didn't need a software guru to set up and maintain. Sadly, we don't get the volunteer support we need to use most of the free software out there.
I know that there are some distributions of Linux out there that are pretty easy to use and set up, but they still don't compare to Windows or MacOS in overall ease. Sad, but true.
BTW - If anyone is in the Bridgeport, Connecticut area feel free to look up the Boys & Girls Clubs of Bridgeport. We have piles of old donated equipment and only limited time to fix and set up. Any help would be a godsend! Thanks.
Sapere aude!
When you say "bridge" my molars start aching. please stop it Hemos
* Shift the cost away from the consumer.
* Lower the cost making it affordable.
* Minimize parts to near zero cost.
* Subsidize the cost.
* Use parts having zero cost.
With respect to locating parts with lowered cost on software. There is one candidate the would evenly fit the requirement. As of this writing, there are several OS are out there having those properties, but there is only one having a large developer base and community scattered around the globe that can act as support contacts. The name is called GNU/Linux.
The author is so desperate to push a GNU/Linux adjenda that he is willing to warp reality as shamelessly as a Microsoft PR employee.
To make a claim that the ONLY choice is GNU/Linux is a flat out lie. *BSD is an equally fine choice. Why? Given most of the user space and user applications are the SAME across the UNIX space, if the statement "community scattered around the globe that can act as support contacts" is true, and most of the code in a complete GNU/Linux system is the same across the UNIX world, then *BSD is as good a choice as *Linux.
The Author even KNOWS he's lying, look at his verbage. He states "there is one candidate [that] would evenly fit the bill" Ok, so he's establishing there is one. Then he says "But there is only one" - this is the slip up in verbage. He'd already established there is 'but one choice' then he claims only one has the 'global reach'....why make the claim if there is only one?
Having the GNU blinders on, means the author misses the reality that wealth is built on Intellectual Property. The idea behind the GPL is to tear down IP. Using a BSD licence and BSD software means you can create economic value by choosing to protect IP. By actualling having IP to bring to the economic table, the "digitally divided" have IP to barter for money.
As you can see, the author doesn't actually CARE about the global condition....unless the answer to that condition is GNU/Linux.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
The digital divide is not between the rich and poor, but between the interested and uninterested (or even the young and old). I regularly run into upper-class middle-aged people who don't own computers, don't know anything about them, and really have no interest in using them. Meanwhile, I know a janitor who is addicted to video games and has a high-end system that puts mine to shame. Computers are a big part of his life.
Also, in my experience, computers are not the biggest concern of poor people. There are plenty of other things they would do if they had money other than buy computers. When I was in debt, I was more concerned with paying my bills than upgrading my ancient computer. The myth of a sad, doe-eyed black girl saying "My mommy can't afford no computer" is not the digital divide. "Digital divide" is a term invented by middle and upper-class liberals who think they know what poor people need. It sure isn't Linux.
The goatse guy for president. Win one for the gaper!
1 -- require Microsoft (and other software companies) to make abandonware revert to free-use by anyone. Don't require company to necessarily make old versions available for download at now cost, just eliminate copyright protection for versions that are no longer supported.
2 -- Change copyright protection for software to a maximum of 5 years. Abandonware would simply accelerate the push into public domain.
3 -- Eliminate shrink wrap agreements, these are onerous burdens on uneducated consumers. Specify a standard commercial conduct code for shrink-wrap software.
4 -- Eliminate patents for software. Copyright protection is nearly automatic, favors the small developer compared to patents, and would eliminate a large cost of software development.
5 -- Encourage other governments to follow a similar set of reasonable rules.
My personal comments on these rules follow.
Microsoft might actually have to innovate to provide enough value to make consumers but software within the shortened copyright period.
Maybe Borland would revert to like a book license agreements -- in fact, that sounds like a good criteria to be included under point 3 above
Linux -- no damage here, if its all about freedom for the developer and consumer, Linux would be unaffected directly, although stiffer competition from a revitalized commercial sector may inspire more insanely great software here too.
Ten years ago, relatively few people knew how to operate a computer, and they were more expensive. A generation from now, almost everyone will know how to use a computer and they will be even more accessible than they are today.
The "digital divide" will clear itself up. Computers are not really as ubiquitous as people tend to think , especially in low-income areas. That will change though. Until then, I think we have better things to worry about than getting internet access to John Q. Welfare and his kids.
- Zach.
Learn to Play Go
yes you can pay less for a cheap entry level computer than for a microsoft OS. that is not including other software eg word processors.
Microsoft don't sell 95 anymore. I want a copy with all the patches.
I'm sorry, but if education is a priority maybe the white trash and hood rats can stop buying Newport smokes and skittles along with FuBu and Tommy gear.
A pack of smokes costs $3. A moderate smoker could go over 200 packs a year. Save that, stop eating at taco bell and arby's and you can get an adequate PC.
I think the notion of giving poor people and downtrodden schools computers to solve their problems is nothing but the usual feel good liberal shit. How is that computer going to make up for you mom smoking crack or your dad being in jail or away with his other kids other moms? Lack of computers will not solve anything. Geting kids in better homes and getting these kids out of failing public schools will help and is proven to help.
Fuck PC's I don't even think schools should have them until Jr. High.
The only divide Linux can bridge is the crack of my ass, when I use it to wipe me clean.
WTF do you guys waste your time dreaming about a world "made better by Linux"? If you would just get real jobs, at least you could earn some money and maybe increase productivity.
Sheesh. Get real, losers!
I've spent some time in Morocco. Not a third world country, but certainly not first world either. There are large towns, cities, where the majority of the community shares a phone. (I've been absent a few years, so forgive me if things have changed.)
Digital divide?! Most people in world don't even have telephones!
So, the argument goes, we must, with all due haste, do all we can to make sure that anyone anywhere can reach anyone else anywhere, at anytime. We must make all information available to everyone at all times.
Well, maybe. But, despite my white male American technoliterate sysadmin background, I don't give any of these objectives high priority.
What is life like, when you can't drive? Can't make ad hominem (sic) social arrangements with your friends across town? Can't keep pace with the gyrations of the NYSE? Well, you probably know your neighbors.
Answer this: What are your neighbor's names? Where did they grow up? What do they do for a living? What are their ambitions? Are you good friends? Could you, with all of your magical technological sophistication, do something to make their life better? Do you think maybe, if you got to know them, techo-illiterates though they may be, they might be able to make your life better?
I have a sick number of computers at my disposal. Throw them all in the river, and give me tajine on the mountains overlooking the beaches of Agadir. For all our wizardry, we are still existential infants. Don't let your sophistication get to your head.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Poor people are going to be less likely to own a computer than, richer upper class people. Well Duh?
I cannot believe people even question the existence of the digital divide, it is something that anyone with reason could understand.
Why even bother categorizing this problem. There have been disenfranchised people since the day humans stopped hunting and gathering and turned to an agricultural system.
The problem with this article is that it assumes that the digital divide problem is software related. It is not even a hardware problem. The problem is poverty. Yes I do know that point is obivious! But it is a social problem that world leaders have failed to fight directly.
The problem is that politians constantly restate the problem of poverty by categorizing diffent it into different subsets. It is as if catogerizing poverty into different subpoints helps solve the problem. I think politicans and civil rights leaders are ill equipped to solve the problem directly, so they divide it into subpoints inorder not to be held accountable for their inablility to fight it.
A poor kid in the shanty town in South Africa with a computer, is still a poor kid.
By "bridging digital divide", you do nothing to address what caused the divide in the first place. "Bridging the digital divide" does nothing to affect the infrastructural problems that allow the poverty to exist in the first place. The resources that could be channeled into finding a soultion to poverty, are waisted in a futile effort.
I bet, when the radio started to overtake written forms of communication, people started to worry that there were not enough radios for everyone. Once the radio problem was solved, TV appeared. When there was a TV in every home, computers appeared an so-on. The problems derived from poverty are dynamic an complex, once you solve one, another appears. To solve only a subset, but not the root, is a futile effort at best.
We could wire every house in America, but without an infrastructure to support it, it will fall apart. In order fight poverty you have to provide the direct cause of the poverty not the results.
Don't get me wrong, I love linux, as soon as I get my open gl working, I am killing winblows, but thats beside the point. this is just as bad as when people were complaining about the atm fees in California. this is just like saying, I want a car, but I can't afford it, so lets see, government, can you buy me one. I mean honestly, computers are not a civil right. and someone does have to pay for the severs, hardware, telco/broadband lines. In closing I would also like to state if you realllly wanted a computer you would come up with means to do so --See the new G.H.O.S.T system, the ultimate in paitball concealment at:http://www.unitedpaintball.com --
at home, try it out, its kind of funny in a bizarre way.
So as much as I loathe to feed the trolls, there is some strong evidence to suggest that the BSD community is losing interest, motivation, or both. Its hard to deny that they are slowing down.
So I'd say Linux is the quite obvious choice, but note that this community is also being splintered as people move on to other interesting technologies as they linux hype wanes. I suspect OSX will capture some of this audience, particularly those linux users who have given up on desktop linux (you know, those people who don't describe themselves as "gluttons for punishment"). XP and Win2k will also get some users, now that they are bridging the stability divide (and once people realize most of the tools they love on linux are in cygwin).
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Most college students don't need to play games why would they need ms windows?
"Games" don't need Windows. You can hook up a linker from lik-sang, copy all your Game Boy cartridges into your computer, and then run them on VisualBoyAdvance. You can also get the ROMs for many Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, and Super NES games at pe2000 and edgeemu; pick up emulators at Zophar's Domain.
Will I retire or break 10K?
This is just more of the self serving tripe of the "self-entitled" crowd. Let government provide everything for you -- even if it isn't your own government.
As an American, I know that the only true way is to bomb third world nations into oblivion, carpet their land with unexploded live mines and then bring them to the light of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Okay, Linux solves the "Cost of the OS" part of the problem, and since it can run on old hardware, it solves tha part of the problem... But who is going to teach these people how to use linux?
Admit it people, Linux isn't that user friendly. When we are talking about the under-edeucated population, and something that represents a significant cost to these people... they are gonna need a LOT of tech support.
Heck, I know people who easly afforded their computer, but are afraid to do anything on them for fear of "messing something up".
I don't think a computer in ever house is the solution. A computer in every classroom, library and community center is the way to go.
Centralize the computer in these communities, keep them well maintained, and free for all.
--T
http://www.theMediaBunker.com
Politicos come up with props like this precisely because they know no one will ever pick the scab off and determine what they mean - its treated as self evident. Now that its treated as a given that the divide exists, it can be used as leverage in government spending bills.
In any case, this begs an entirely other different question - why do we care if people have computers at home??? Do we concern ourselves with a "TV divide"? How about an "SUV divide"? Home computers, particularly those connected to the net, are primarily used for entertainment, and you know what I'm talking about.
Gee, I thought it was common knowledge.
There will always be people who are wealthier than others. Considering that the poorest in America have medical care available to them that the royalty of Europe could not obtain a century ago is worth noting. Clean water, a place to live, an assurance of the ability to obtain food..and of course a wealth of creature comforts and diversions (to keep them mollified) and you have to conlude that these people, who often contribute little to society or contribute resources that are not highly valued (like manual labor) are not doing too bad.
That's all nice and feel-goodish (in a noble savage kinda way); but if it's so all-blessed communal and close...why'd you come back to civilization?
If they want to save things that are private: use a disk.
A CD burner will add upwards of $100 to the cost of the machine.
Will I retire or break 10K?
You address a massive issue. Consumerism, industrialization, modernization, digitalization, all fine ideas. But do they provide any sort of happiness. Fundamentally, a professor of mine once described our desires as the desires of the aristocracy, from a Foucaultian perspective - to own a castle (house), segregate our personal lives from that of those around us, and choose our fate to a tea or tee time. What has happened, perhaps, is that we did not in our individualization ask whether or not the aristocracy was happy.
From a paleolithic perspective, we are certainly anything but in our element - packs animals that do seasonal hunting and foraging and farming. We turn nowadays to television, and in cases internet, for the elements of our physio-psychology in derth. Yet we are supplementing artificial inventions for natural (presumably natural) environments.
One case in point is a family of refugees where I live here in Canada, a man from Berundi and his wife. The man's ex-wife was killed, and some of his brothers, sisters, cousins, were killed in war, he cannot see his children and cannot afford a vehicle and relies upon donations for essentials. Yet he is the happiest person I have met.
I enjoyed reading your note on the matter.
Yes, just like half the people around you have below-average intelligence.
Not necessarily. "Half are below" the median. "Average" most commonly refers to the mean. Not many statistical distributions have enough symmetry to make mean == median (normal and uniform do).
Will I retire or break 10K?
I've spent some time in Morocco. Not a third world country[...]
Morocco is a third world country
This is inane. Are you claiming that with the release of XP, Windows ME should be free??
The rest of your comments are just ill-conceived anti-market pap. Employing rules as you describe them would wipe out the commercial software business as we know it in ten years.
Really, anyone who has grown up in a depressed or impoverished area (as I did) will tell you that the beer and cigarettes are never lacking in these areas, and most of them are set up pretty well for home entertainment and other ways to dither away your tax dollars.
In many ways these people live more comfortably than royalty did a century ago. Its time we quit calling them "poor" and started calling them "less wealthy".
Do you really want to give low income families access to computers and the internet? A welfare family gets a computer with an internet connection- is that going provide motivation for this family to get off thier ass and get a job? No, its going to give them a more entertaining thing to park thier ass at, even better than the TV. The digital world is a nice place, but we need to worry about the real world first. This will get modded down because people won't agree with me, and thats fine.
>Damn these ACs, too scared to tell who their name >is.
Dumb motherfucker, I guarantee that "Scorcherer" ain't the fucking name yer mama gave you. Now go fuck yerself
It is truly pathetic. Sad male heads-of-department of a certain age, realising they're no longer in the youth, or even middle-aged category, suddenly attempting to alter their lifestyle to compensate.
And so it is that the head of IT, with designer-coloured cellphone and laptop and brand new convertible car, has appointed a flashy young smooth-talker to the position of executive liaison officer.
It's easy to see how her previous experience in the modelling industry is so close to information systems that a couple of days of reading glossy mags will have her up to speed...
"I can't see that she's such a problem," the boss cries.
"She can't even spell IT, let alone be in the position of making service delivery promises to all and sundry," I protest.
"She must know something about IT to get appointed," the boss responds, confirming my suspicion that he's a card-carrying member of NaivetÈ International.
"I see. And how long did it take her to get her desktop machine going again?"
"The power switch is quite difficult to find," he replies, as loyal as a terrier.
My worst fears are confirmed when she decides to buy up a whole swag of network computers, "Because we won't ever have to worry about upgrading." This poorly researched decision has obtained the official stamp of approval and a purchase order has appeared on my desk for a 'technical sign-off'. I stuff it into the shredder quicker than the average user could say "Where's my hard disk gone?"
The boss is on the job in record time.
"These network computers are great," he gasps, flashing a glossy brochure.
"And why is that?" I ask.
"Because they act just like PCs without disks," he cries. "They're good because everything they need to operate is loaded from the computer."
"Sort of like a dumb terminal, with graphic and sound capabilities."
"Uh... no, much faster, and in colour."
"So it's a bit like changing a black and white TV for a colour one."
"Uh... Not exactly."
"So we're going to move from independent computers to ones dependent on a server - like ASCII terminal days. So when the main machine is down, no work gets done. Isn't that why we got desktop machines?"
"Ahhhh... No, not really."
"Oh. So they're different from, say, an NCD in what way?"
"Because we'll never need to upgrade the equipment. It'll be like your colour TV set," the boss blurts triumphantly. "Once you've got one, it'll never need upgrading - just upgrade the server software."
"Not even when the software grows and needs more memory?"
"No."
"Not even when the software wants to make use of whizzy new features like Nicam stereo, Dolby surround, and wide screen?"
"Look, we're bloody buying some, so sign off on them," the boss shouts.
What the hell, I scrawl out a signature. Not mine of course, but who's to know? Except the boss, should someone check it against his.
"In fact," the boss continues, "I think you should be using the same technology as users, so order a couple for the control room as well."
BASTARD!!
A few days later they arrive and are dispatched to the test cases in various departments. The PFY and I get ours into gear - true, we did replace the motherboard with that of a small-footprint PC with high-speed laptop disk drives, but to all intents and purposes it looks like the real thing.
Let the carnage commence!
SNMP management is a damn fine tool for a machine, especially when it lets you reboot the thing remotely. I patch a game of Network DOOM with sprites of the NC users' faces and get the kills piped to the SNMP reboot command. Kill a user, their Network Computer goes down.
Of course, it's not very sporting, so I ring the users and tell them, to give them a fighting chance. Well, as much of a chance as you can get using the apps-server-based copy of the game which only lets you pick up a handgun. Still, it's amazing how good a beancounter can get at pistol shooting when two hours of spreadsheet work are at stake and you have to win a game to use the Save option.
Surprisingly enough, the NCs weren't a hit with the users and were decommissioned after only four days (and 327 kills).
"I was thinking about a PC version of that game," the PFY comments.
"You mean the same game, except that it causes the Pentium Hang bug on their desktop machine?"
"You mean you've thought of it?"
"Thought of it, installed it, and am waiting for new players with the chaingun."
Nymia is on fucking drugs. That is the only way I can seem to figure out the mental mechanations behind this crap. His quotes are retarded, using a quote saying "imagine an America with compitent teachers and boutiful access to information". Yeah well I can imagine it and there would be no digital divide if teachers knew what the fuck they were teaching and had more skills then what is required to currently teach high school and elementary students. There are only a small percentage of teachers who teach a subject they actually have any actual training in. Math and science teachers come from the PE department and English teachers haven't read a book with any more depth than a Danielle Steel novel.
Secondly the statistics are complete crap. The conclusion is that 10% of people without internet access actually want it. Man some divide, ten percent is little more than a margin or error. Some old computer with Linux hacked onto it is not an easier or cheaper way to get someone on the internet. Linux doesn't have a lower cost than any other OS in the realm of computers. Because you can download the source code doesn't mean shit. A good 99% of people with computers don't even know what the hell source code is, it is of no use at all to them. Complex software requires training. Not equating the cost of support is irresponcible and unconvincing. It is further irresponsible to say that there are X number of users of a piece of software therefore someone has X number of resources for help. That is just retarded. If I use a piece of software I'm not going to write down my phone number so some jackass who doesn't know a microchip from a potato chip can call me and ask me how to defragment his monitor.
Crap about subsidizing the cost and minimizing the cost of parts and all that is just bad accounting. I hope this guy never hopes to be an MBA. Besides the obvious fact nothing is free, not even putting Linux on a discarded 386 PC clone from yesteryear internet access isn't free. The concept of a free ISP died out because it wasn't economically viable. Even if all somebody had to do was subsidize the cost of ISP service and software support giving free computers to everybody would STILL be uneconomical jackassery. Why should somebody get for free something I have to pay for? If some welfare kid gets a free PC and internet access for doing nothing I want a free PC and internet access for doing nothing. Slashdot needs a story moderating system. I'd rate this -1 Editor of crack.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
This is a serious question. I have seen poverty in the us. (Go to Arkansas or West Virginia...looks like Calcutta).Does being RAISED in poverty propagate poverty? My mom was NOT rich, not even close. Making minimum wage part time raising 2 kids. I, however, refused to continue in that way of life (it's called greed). So I busted my horns, and am now upperclass. I have also given back, so to speak. What causes people to stay poor? Is it the decisions they make? Is it their education level? Is it their intelligence? I have RARELY seen a genius who is dirt poor (unless they have chosen that). I know quite a few VERY intelligent people, one is a Physicist who lives meagerly, by his OWN choice. He does not consider himself poor.(Although many would). He has High speed internet access but no phone. He couldnt care less. All his needs are met. So, is poverty in the eye of the beholder? He is poor in comparison to Bill Gates. He told me that poverty is when the needs you require are not easily met. All his needs are met, hence he is not poor. So, if someone makes only $15,000 a year, but all their needs are met, are they TRULY poor?
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
while it would solve many monitary issues, a large part of the divide problem is education. unless you've grown up around computers or been schooled in them to a relatively high degree, you're not going to have any idea how to use Linux. regardless of however good the open source GUI is. if a problem arose, which it most likely would, who would fix it? hard to find free help these days if your internet is broken. the only OS i can realistically see working when it comes to usability is the MacOS, but of course there are the money issues there. you have to admit a load of iMac2's would do fabulously in low-income communities were the price tag picked up by some generous donor (perhaps michael bloomberg could have done something useful for citizens with his millions, instead of further contributing to the woes of a bought out political system...but that's another rant altogether.)
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
I will just try to spark some discussion, here is a few points to consider followed by my own thoughts on this matter. Open Economies participants will recognise the content of this submission.
I think theses issues are worth to address to try to find some common ground (or than again, maybe we will not) to take action from.
1. Is there a gap? What is it then?
2. Where is the gap? Are we talking about the gap worldwide in developing countries or even on a national level in welfare countries with internal differences and gaps (i e USA or Sweden)?
3. Should we bridge the gap? (Should you answer no to this question, the rest of the questions may not be useful.)
4. Do we have a responsibility as humans to brdige the gap? Why / why not?
5. Are there any negative consequences of bridging the gap? Do we (i e the rich filthy bastards) profit from the differences?
6. Are there any positive consequences of bridging the gap Do we (again the rich filthy bastards) profit from minimising the differences?
7. How do we bridge the gap in short time with lack of funds?
8. How do we bridge the gap in long time with lack of funds?
9. How do we bridge the gap in long time with lots of funds?
10. Name one measure you can initiate today to bridge the gap. Will you do it?
- - -
I will try to address some issues to get the discussion going. I hope you do not mind me doing this.
>1. Is there a gap? What is it then?
Yes. There is a gap in countries and between countries and between continents in respect of:
1. computers
2. access
3. general IT knowledge and
4. use.
If one of the factors 1-4 is missing in any given community, the digital gap will eventually evolve. In a community with high rates of 1-4, the digital development will flourish.
>2. Where is the gap? Are we talking about the gap worldwide in developing >countries or even on a national level in welfare countries with internal >differences and gaps (i e USA or Sweden)?
I think the gap is relative and could be applied and considered both on a domestic and international level.
>3. Should we bridge the gap? (Should you answer no to this question, the >rest of the questions may not be useful.)
I think we should consider the world throught the John Rawls veil of ignorance. Rawls is well-known to all scholars of jurisprudence and most likely all of you, but just to make sure we are on the same page: the basic idea is that the choice of the pinciples of social organisation is to be made by persons who have no idea of the actual position they will occupy in society or of their interests and inclinations. Rawls is wideley critised, maybe best by Nozick, but I still consider his ideas as a good tool and framework for any regulatory or policy discussions.
Seen through the eyes of Rawls we should bridge the gap at least if we do enjoy the benefits of a digital society.
>4. Do we have a responsibility as humans to brdige the gap? Why / why not?
Yes, according to the answer to 3.
>7. How do we bridge the gap in short time with lack of funds?
I think we should be very generous with our knowledge. It will not cost us much to set up web sites spreading our knowledge and works to other communities. The open source and free software movement could be the most important step towards digitalisation of Africa. Sweden is one country spending a lot of funds on financial aid directed towards developing countries (often referred to the Group 77 countries). Maybe we and other nations should refocus and educate and ditribute or knowledge instead of cash.
At the United Nations Millenium Summit the prime minister of India, Shri Vitar Bhapal Vhajpayee stated:
"A 'New Economy' drives the world today. Yet, nearly a quarter of the people this Assembly represents have neither prospered nor gained from these developments. Often,they find themselves further marginalised and more vulnerable as development economics gives way to unbridled market economics and social objectives are erased by profit motives."
>8. How do we bridge the gap in long time with lack of funds?
Actually, the same answer as 7. We also probably could donate a lot of outranged equipment to the Group 77 countries or to less fortunate people in our own contries.
>9. How do we bridge the gap in long time with lots of funds?
I think we should address these issues through the United Nations or a similar organisation and fund a special program aiming to wire the world.
>10. Name one measure you can initiate today to bridge the gap. Will you do it?
I have translated the GNU GPL v 2 into Swedish, which - to my surprise - was very much appreciated by Swedes lacking knowledge of the English language. If you are not a programmer, easy things like this could actually improve the world, although it may seem simple and naive on the verge to pathetic. I have also published some of my works online, which has turned out to be helpful to a few people. It is not a huge effort, but if we all do something it could have some impact. You do not have to go into Pay it forward-sleazy movies extremes .-)
My new task will be to write easy to grasp guidelines to use computers with free software or open source software. It will cost me a few hours, but hopefully someone will be helped.
If you read this far, I am very impressed. Thank you for your attention.
Best Regards
Mikael
Pawlo.com
You just post a question to the relevant newsgroup.
Within minutes some helpful person will reply "RTFM".
Problem solved.
Actually, it isn't a given that vaccines (as they currently stand) are good in all situations. In fact, it may be the case that over-vaccination is leading to adaptation of infectants to the vaccine.
In addition, it is quite common for vaccines to cause severe reactions in children, as can be attested to by this link (top hit on Google, "Vaccines"):
Children's Gallery
In any case, it should always be the parent's choice as to whether to vaccinate their child or not. For diseases which are at epidemic proportions, especially in developing countries, vaccines may be a positive good, but in America and other "first world" countries, vaccines are overused, and potentially dangerous.
Life's a lot like money-- you spend it, then it's gone. Spend wisely.
OK, so give people Linux.
That's really going to help them learn the Windows and MS Office skills that might actually get them a job, isn't it? {Just one example from many possible.)
Here's another example: Part of this is about equality of access to public services, which are more and more moving online. You're not helping people if you give them a browser that doesn't work with public information and transaction sites designed for IE.
Sounds to me like a recipe for making sure the people on the wrong side of the digitial divide stay there.
If you're going to help people by improving access to hardware and software it needs to be mainstream stuff, not something that will be seen as "welfare ghetto" stuff that will stigmatise the children when they turn up at school not knowing what the richer kids know.
Why all the rancor?
In any case, regardless of which license you prefer, it is simple fact that Linux is more widely used, has a larger developer base, and better hardware support (in general) than the BSDs. You will tend to find support for (e.g.) the latest gadgets on Linux sooner than on the BSDs.
While you may find exceptions to this, the tight groups of developers that maintain the BSDs simply cannot keep up with new hardware as well as the mass of Linux developers. Not that it does exceptionally well either, but if you're looking for free software, you have to take what you can get.
Alternately, the BSDs tend to be more stable, since they aren't trying to be on the cutting edge as much.
However, when you look at the licenses, the GPL tends to favor developers who aren't looking to "create wealth" built on other people's work. If you create your own software, you can use a GPL license and also license commercially for commercial users. The original author gets the advantage.
Whereas, with the BSD license, any subsequent author can take advantage of the generous terms, and build wealth from the base contributed by others. This has worked favorably for companies in cases like X Windows (a similar license), and the Wine project (where companies are creating extensions based on it, they would be unlikely to create if it had been GPLd).
It's a tricky balance of power. If you use the BSD license, a "free software" based company may use the software to create a successful product, thus increasing the use of that codebase. If you're trying to establish a standard, that's good.
However, the company could also keep their changes private, indefinately, and multiple code forks could occur, thus fracturing the code base and depriving the community of a return for their original investment in the code.
The GPL tends to reduce the chance of forking, but makes it harder for companies to add proprietary "value" to create their own products. (Notice I said *harder*, not *impossible*).
Neither license is "bad", they just have different purposes. Developers should make an informed choice as to which license they prefer, for a given project.
Life's a lot like money-- you spend it, then it's gone. Spend wisely.
Take a look at all the factors keeping them down (and I do realize that there are causal factors in play that to a large extent excuse their behavior) - crime, alcoholism/drug abuse, abusive parents, gangs, lack of jobs and corrupt government, along with general bureaucracy that raises the bar for starting your own business.
Now ask yourself : what will the internet provide that a library doesn't for these people? or discussing with your peers at a café?
And finally look at library usage in poor areas. Then look at how many of them watch Jerry Springer and Ricki Lake, and not the news or PBS. Are you sure Linux or bridging the Digital Divide can do anything to help this?
Stop the brainwash
But sewage treatment plants aren't as glamorous as 'net access.
Every time I hear about Linux being used to bridge the digital divide I wonder to myself: "How are they going to bridge the Microsoft divide?"
:-).
I think it's wonderful to teach computer skills to inner city students, I'm considering become a teacher for this purpose myself. The problem remains though, these kids are going to get into a work place and be effectively totally uneducated. Using Gnome and Open Office as I do will not prepare someone with no computer experience for using Windows and MS Office. Granted many metaphors are the same between the two. Still, if you have no computer experience and only know Linux, you are going to have a tough time with Windows (especially it's crashes
I think Lindows might be an answer to this problem because you can run it (Linux) on older donated PC's and presumably run Microsoft Office on it. Another answer would be for Open Source desktop software to gain more acceptance in business, until this happens though, these kids are going to be (as usual) the victims of misdirected compassion.
Overheard at LinuxWorld:
``The name of the OS is called GNU/Linux''
``Oh, that's its name, is it?''
``No, the name is Linux''
``Oh, so I should have said, `that's what the OS is called'?''
``No, the OS is called FooBar Linux''
``Then what is the OS?''
``Linux+GNU+X+BSD+EveryOtherFreeUnixOutThere, and the packaging format's my own invention.''
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
This is a serious thought, not a troll.
The *point* of 'bridging the divide' isn't just about bringing convenience and e-services to the masses. If you're just handing out systems so users can start buying into Hotmail/job search sites/whatever, so be it, chuck just about anything cheap on there, heap a browser on it, and you're good.
However, the initial point in briding the gap- what the futurists were thinking of, before they got sidetracked by eGroceryDelivery- was to create economic opportunity. Computers are *easy,* and in theory, they were supposed to get people thinking about science and engineering, before the likes of 'wizards' came out of the UI labs.
As such, BSD may be the better choice when economic development is concerned. If someone comes up with a good extension to SocialistBSD, or whatever the gov't is providing, they can pitch it to their neighbors, on whatever terms they want. If they come up with something compelling enough to sell as a commercial/closed product, more power to 'em, they start a company, create some jobs, and pull some money into the area.
Sure, the products may suck, and you could do the same thing with Linux- but the costs of making source available might be a barrier to entry- unless the gov't is willing to loan every startup webspace to host their source on.
Seriously, it sounds silly, but the people who need this 'digital-divide crossing' aren't the people who have a spare $300/month to pay for DSL, hosting, etc.
D*mnit, I really feel like a troll today, as I'm responsible for 2 other pro-BSD posts.
I just don't get it- have no Slashdot readers ever tried NetBSD or OpenBSD?
I lived off OpenBSD 2.8 on a 486DX2-66 / 16MB / 540MB for 4 months, when my main machine died at college. These distros are *already* geared towards this level of hardware. Sure, compiles take a while, and that 540MB disk was a bit cramped, but it *worked.* I could browse with lynx and links, read mail (cheating, since I'd just telnet into PINE on the school's Solaris box), view graphics with svgalib and some lynx hackery, and even decode MP3 (downmixed by 4, of course).
Linux could do the same thing, but it's hell picking a distro that'll do it. You could just run an older distro, but then you're screwed for the hardware support issues that put me on BSD in the first place, back in 1999. (Remember when Debian didn't support 'Tulip'-style network cards?)
Please, someone, *try* NetBSD (FreeBSD's a bit bloaty, OpenBSD's security makes svgalib a bit of a pain), and you'll see why I'm whining so vocally. Linux-the-kernel is great, but do you except a guy in Africa to be trying to bring up KDE2 or Gnome on his eBay-$20 486?
foraging and farming.
(Obviously a guy who's never attended a LAN party
One of the companies that I recently worked for spent 8 million on Sun hardware (E10k's, Solaris, Veritas, etc.) and 16 million on Oracle 8i software licenses. That's right, the hardware cost was half of what the software cost. And the hardware was scaled for one year's increase in work load. When they plan to add more hardware guess what, Oracle will get even more money.
This is the where the real software costs are. Forget about your piddling $200 for an OS crap. The other apps which run on that OS are often MUCH more expensive that the OS (i.e. WinXP versus MS Office).
I guess that is why the above mentioned company is planning on moving to a clustered Linux solution.
Yeah, well he's happy to be the fuck out of Berundi. It's all relative...
In a previous life, I used to use and support many MS products/platforms, but cannot for the life of me think that MS actually has support for their products in practice. Lately, the only support I have experienced in practice is from the hardware manufacturers who resell MS products. Telephone and online support appear to me to be a myth. I've been observing four MS-based computing environments for three years now and it seems that either applications and services work out of the box or don't work ever. YMMV.
One also gets plenty of misinformation and superstition from co-workers and local support staff regarding closed source, especially MS products. Searching the 'Net for answers to OS problems comes with the same caveats (authority, accuracy, timeliness, etc.) as with searching for other purposes.
In the "old days" closed source software used to come with concise, helpful, printed documentation. (I will point out that the last two laptops and dozen or so low-end Intel servers I've bought have not even come with MS-Windows CDs even though it was pre-loaded.)
At least with linux and other open source software you can fiddle with it yourself or even RTFM, since the manuals are included in the distribution. If the manuals are not enough, then there's always Usenet and archives of Usenet groups. Both are exactly the kind of opportunities communities need to get a quick start when starting from scratch.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
- Write specifications, and
- Write documentation.
In case you hadn't noticed, these are areas where the hard-core geeks sometimes have difficulty (or just don't want to bother). If you have skills in those areas, being unable to program is probably no handicap so long as you can think and write clearly.Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist