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Improving Computer Form Factors?
eschasi asks: "Recently we've been seeing some trend towards
smaller footprint machines like the new iMac or the tiny PC system
shown in this
recent article. All these tiny systems have scalability or quality
problems for me, and I don't think it has to be that way. But all the
solutions I see require discarding much of what we think is standard
to desktop/deskside mechanical design for PCs. Apple has been able to
do with much more freedom becuase they own the whole process. PC
makers, however, don't. The last major improvement to PC
motherboard/case design was the ATX design, and that was evolutionary
rather than revolutionary. I think that major improvement can still be
made in an evolutionary way. I want both worlds: I want a small
footprint; I want it in a premium system; I want it to have enough
room for a pair of hard drives, a 5.25" external slot, and a 3.5"
external slot; and I want it using largely off-the-shelf components,
and I don't want to have to re-invent ATX and PCI and ya-da-day to
get it!" Do you feel the same way? How would you improve the
current crop of PC form factors?
"IMHO large chunks of the problem could be solved by taking
advantage of both sides of the motherboard. Put the CPU and most of
the misc. chips on one side, put the expansion slots and RAM on the
other. The case design would have to change but that's quite doable.
Using both sides of the motherboard does more than reduce footprint
by half while returning to full expandability. You also get the
benefit of having the RAM sit directly opposite the CPU, reducing
trace length problems and permitting RAM bus speed increases. Other
timing problems might also be reduced.
I've left aside the rest of my extensive arguements for why this is
or isn't a good idea; what I'm interested in is this:
- Do other people see the same drawbacks with small-footprint systems?
- What seems to be out there on the drawing board for post-ATX systems?"
I'd love not to need to open the case, move all the cables around, and try not to slice my fingers on the case when changing or adding a card. I'd like to see the PCI and AGP internal slots replaced with cPCI cards that slide in on rails from the outside.
RIBBON CABLES. I hate the things. I would much prefer something where you just plug the drive in like it were a card and off it goes.
All a coder really wants, are fast cars, fast women and fast algorithms.
Is easy if you live in the US. Just run all your components at 220. You might need to get an electrician to set it up for you, but it's got to be worth it in the long run. The components will run cooler as well. Most powersupplies take variable voltage nowadays.
What the PC industry needs is an optical motherboard standard. By this I mean a way to have tiny SIMM-like cards, each for the CPU/BIOS, RAM, Networking components, HD/CD interfaces, USB interfaces, etc, and then have them all communicate via one unique serial optical interface. This way the cards can be made VERY small, and each one could be placed in any position (sideways, upside down, flat, vertically) inside almost any motherboard available. As a matter of fact, with this simple innovation anyone could easily copy the iMac (old and new) looks and still have a 100% Wintel machine. So the bottom line: We need a super high-speed "optical motherboard interconnect" technology to solve this problem, and trully revolutionize the PC architecture. I can actually imagine an "inside out" PC where all internal components are actually external components, with only one single special cable carrying optical data and electrical power among them.
What about changing the way the AGP/PCI/ISA cards fit onto the motherboard? SBC's use cards that stack onto one side of the board. If this was done, you'd save about 4" of height. Just have the AGP stack on one side of the motherboard and the PIC cards stack on the other. Cooling would be a factor, but a single fan would push air more directly over the components, so I think it would work out ok. Laptop sized hard drives could become industry standard in time, and hopefully at some point floppy drives won't be used anymore (I dont have one in my system). Finally, CD/DVD drives could either be made smaller by making them slot-loading, or by using external drives (ala SCSI or USB). I guess that leaves the power supply, which I don't know much about, but it seems like there's a lot of wasted space in that little metal box. :) My computer, using a stacking concept, small footprint motherboard and an external CDR/DVD would probably be able to fit inside a 5"x5"x5" cube.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
1) Improve the layout to facillitate air flow. Perhaps if there was a way to vent the cpu, vid card, and power supply and atmospher cool the rest, then perhaps it could be done with fewer fans.
2) Make front-mounted slots a standard so that adding front mounted devices such as the Creative EAX, USB and Firewire ports, headphone jack, could all be done without making custom modifications or using up an external drive bay.
3) Edge-mounted cabling? Nothing bugs me more than having to unplug all of my IDE drives to change ram.
4) How about let's all de-evolve into s-bus computers form factor, then scale by adding cpu-self contained boards (what was that, the compaq 386?) that plug in the bus.
5) screwless drive bays?
6) how about a 1U alternative designed for the home?. I'd think more home appliances things with WiFI could be made with a equipment rack-mounted system if it didn't take up so much room.
I'm in the IT department of a company that handles calls for other companies. With PC's getting smaller and smaller, a problem arises with preventing theft. (I'll try not to rant about people not doing their jobs.) Supervisors are apparently too busy to watch their people who are all sitting on the same 2 rows. The PC's we're using now, are small enough to fit into a large backpack. Security can't search everyone as they leave the building, and metal detectors and such are quite an expense/hassle.
The last center I was at before transferring to Arizona had large towers. There was no way someone was going to walk out with one of these without someone seeing them. The only reason we had large towers, is because the systems were old (166's). From that perspective, I regret that it is more difficult to order large PC's in bulk. Sure we could order the chassis and put all the parts in them ourselves, but that takes a lot of time, too.
It's easy to stand out when the general level of competence is so low.
I'd love to see a modular case, whereby you could add components as you see fit while at the same time EXPANDING the case. Maybe it would use Firewire or USB2 internally, as well as PCI and IDE. With a sleek, modular design, you could make it look good, and you'd never run out of expansion slots again.
Really. Legos.
I was given the idea by looking at the original Google server in the basement of the Stanford CS department. Its case is built from Legos (or, maybe Duplos in reality... they're pretty big).
But why not start with a small form factor for the mobo+busses+limited drivespace. Then, anything you want to add on gets clicked together with another piece. Need two external 5 1/4 bays? Use a 2H piece. Build it as you see fit.
The real issue at that point is a standard bus architecture to bridge the components, but I think the flexibility potential is immense. Got too many devices? Click in an additional 1H powersupply. Need to move your CDRW between boxes? It's a "snap" (insert "hardy-har-har" here).
The drawbacks are of course heat and redundancy. Each module whould have to be self contained at the start, but I can even envision a series of holes bridging components as well... like those old hamster tubes worked. Need more flow because you've got a stack of 43 devices? Add an extra fan module somewhere along the path.
Anyway, it's not here yet, nor will it likely ever be, since it's not mass-marketable (I think). But, it would allow flexibility to grow, a small footprint and size for home users, and massive physical component compatability.
Legos were always the answer when I was 12, too. Some things never change.
I always thought it would be a neat idea to instead of running cables from the board to the drive, have a large card edge connector on the end of the motherboard and have it slide in on a rail. Then the card edge connector expands out to the ports on the system. It could significantly decrease the cost of motherboards because all connectors would be built into the case. I've seen a part-way implementation of this in the old Macintosh performas. The motherboard slid in on a track and locked into place.
Maybe even make a modular grid on the back of the case that you can punch out to add more ports (i.e more firewire, usb etc..) The cables for everything would be secured to the case itself, routed by the case mfr.
But then again, the biggest problem in cases is the IDE cables. When everything starts riding the Serial-ATA bus, that will be a great improvement.
Maybe its just me but I think they should take a clue from William Gibson's Idoru where the decks were in all sorts of odd cases: hand-carved hollowed-out nuts and clear plastic gel.
I'm compute from one desk anyway and I don't move much so I want something that is decoratively interesting: tesla coils, neon, blinking lights, smoke effects, lasers, and gysers of flame!
What is music when you despise all sound?
turn your computer around that way all your connectors are in the front now you have a mess of wires in front of your computer... happy? didnt think so their in the back to get them out of the way most people dont want anything confusing a power and reset button are almost too confusing for alot of users i know
This must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
First, there are a few limitations to this that should be discussed.
CPU The cpu needs room to breathe. Athlons and p4s output lots of heat. The heatsink cannot be obstructed... Period! An obstructed cpu is an accessability pain, as well.
Drive bays 1 internal 3.5 bay and 1external 3.5 and 1 5.25 would be plenty. Very few users have 2 hard drives (most geeks do, but this is geared twoards end users. If they do, they can sacrifice their floppy drive, and possibly buy a usb fdd). Adding an extra internal bay wastes precious space... Of course, there could be exceptions made to the specification for some cases with more bays. Anyhow, firewire drives are getting dirt-cheap nowindays...
Now, for my suggestions
45 degree expansion slots. Probably my most radical argument. It's pretty self explanitory: PCI and AGP slots are on a 45 degree angle, thus reducing the amount of space needed. This is assuming that the motherboard has 3ish slots to begin with. It's not as efficent for pcs with only 1 or 2 slots.
"Unspecified hole" On the rear ports template, place a rectanglar "hole" there, where the motherboard maker can place any extraneous ports it wants (s-video, extra usb or firewire ports, video capture, scsi.. etc).
Rear template The rear template needs more connectors then a regular pc. This is becasue these compact pcs will have few expansion cards in them. This is where ATX really falls on its face. The ports it should have are
4 usb
2 firewire
2 ps/2
1 ethernet/modem (hole big enough to fit either/or)
2 serial/video
1 parallel (legacy, my friend, legacy)
4 sound (for s/pdif or rear channel)
Game port?? This seems rather extraneous with the rise of USB joysticks. Perhaps a bracket should be provided instead. Any die-hard gamers will have a dedicated sound card, anyway...
CPU at the BOTTOM of the board Place all the cool-running components at the top of the case, under the drive cage and PSU, and put the cpu and the connectors at the bottom. Sheesh. Didn't the ATX people think of this... It's also a shorter fall when your heatsink falls off. Possibly put the IDE connectors at the bottom too??
ATX power supply It ain't broke, it seems to work fine, the units aren't horifficly big, either. An idea would be to have super-compact units accept d/c power with an external a/c adapter...
Non-conductive motherboard mount points. It's quite annoying when you're installing a motherboard, and it requires washers at the mount points, in order to function. This adds about $0.25 to the manufacturing process.
Drive rails. Every case should have these. Sure, it's a luxury... but, it's a nice one. So are thumbscrews, and removable motherboard trays, etc...
All in all, we have a case that is signifigantly smaller then normal ATX cases, yet not too small to loose it's functionality... I got a bit carried away, and it looks like some of my specifications would possibly add size.... oh bother! Did i forget something?
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
One of the largest problems with the ATX design however (at least for the argument of this article) is the size of the motherboard itself (no pun intended). I mean, even if you said - let me build my own case, you are limited by the size of the MoBo you have.
From what I am reading from this article is that the writer wants to pursue as whole new motherboard design, lets call it MAT - for Mini AT. With this MAT design, you would be able to still have the current expandabiliy of the desktop, but have it in a smaller system.
Look at the bulk of current systems - you have a side mounted MoBo. If MAT kept this, BUT was able to use this double sided printed - you could take much of the depth of you case out. The height might not change much. Or you could keep the same depth, but change the height, amd move much of the stuff (like the power supply) to the front where you just vacated much of the MoBo. This would result in a case that is slightly wider than what we see now, shorter, and still just as deep.
What I envision when I am thinking about what the auther is talking about is to take the MoBo and do a top mounted design (you will see why in a bit). The processor and most of the chips would reside on the side of the MoBo that faces UP. You would mount your cards on the other side (probably same size cards). Your power supply and drives could be mounted at the bottom of the system, under the cards. The main issue would be venting - and with that, I would propose vents along the TOP back of the system, with the MoBo doing most of the channeling of air. It would direct air in a way that it would have to go to the front of the case, OVER the MoBo and then out the back - this would HOPEFULLY displace the rising air off of the CPU and other chips. You could use a number of fans to input air from the lower side of the system. Overall, you would end up with a wider, but possibly shorter and not nearly a long front to back.
This would be a very interesting project to undertake. But while making a case would probably be easy to do OR get done, making a MoBo that would fit to these standards is probably beyond the range of most people who are reading this.
-RonB
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
At one of my old jobs, they had a "console" for an old mainframe. An Amdahl IIRC. Anyway, it was basically the size of a desk with a dashboard of lights and switches along the back of the desk. It was easily big enough to use as a normal desk if you wanted to, as it had a ton of flat space on top. But the best part was it had an honest-to-god mechanical odometer in the dash part which counted CPU hours (I think.) Anyway, I always wanted to liberate it and take it home, as it sat there unused for years because no one wanted to move it. But alas, it disappeared before I had the chance. Would've made a great desk. Oh well. At least I have my Sun 3/160 end tables.
your suggesting something sort of like the 'trapdoor expansion' slots that Amiga 500/600/1200's had?
like so?
(that's kinda a poor picture, but you get the idea)
Your suggestion about removable drives appeared in Apple laptops in 1995, possibly earlier. But you don't even need to remove a screw. You just slide a spring-loaded switch. The machine I'm typing on now is a more recent PowerBook. It has two bays, both of wich can be used for either batteries or removable drives, and all you have to do to remove them is pull a lever towards you. They're even hot-swapable. That, and slightly older models which were thick enough to accomidate a type-3 PCMCIA card could use a removable hard drive there too.
As far as cards that slide in from the outside, Apple thought of that in about 1993. If you look at the Macintosh LC575, apple's first large All-in-one, the whole mother board slides out on a tray, and has one tab at the front with contacts that slide into an interface with all of the cables on the other side of it. You can pull out the mother board and install memory, cards, and processor upgrades without getting tangled up in cables or slicing yourself on stamped sheet metal. Apple continued similar designs in the PowerMacintosh 5xxx series, and the Power Macintosh G3 All-in-one. All you had to do was remove two or three philips screws and pull the handle toward you, and you had instant expansion! They discontinued this design when the iMac was introduced. The iMac is an absolute pain to take apart, but that's what the form-factor would allow.
Changing a cliché:
One of the big problems of modern PC design is cooling. Perhaps the answer is in plain sight - the side of the case.
Just provide a thermal path from the CPU to the side of the case. This may not be easy, but is solvable.
Ideas:
Heat pipes. Overclockers have used them, spacecraft use them - they're proven. A heat pipe with rounded ends and mounts with rounded receptacles and a bit of thermal paste. Conduct heat to the side of the case, and allow for variations of the CPU location.
Thermal strap. Some spacecraft use these, too. They conduct heat well. They are not as multidimentionally adjustable as above, but can be worked out.
At least one side of the case would have to be thermally conductive. Aluminum or copper would suffice. The case side could then be made flat or ridged. The "side" could also be the upper panel of the case, provided you don't really want a big, heavy monitor on top of it. Just imagine a sculpted, polished copper case sitting on top of your desk. A pain to clean, put purty.
The idea takes the concept of shrinking the PC, and also answers another problem - noise. One can eliminate a fan (or more, extend the idea to other components) and gain coolness.
I think I may start designing a case for myself.
Screw form factor. I can deal without that one square foot. What *I* want is for case manufacturers and motherboard manufacturers to agree on some sort of standard for hooking up chassis LED/switches.
Yeah, I know. It sounds trivial. But with a lot of motherboards, it takes more time to futz around with those little wires than it does to install the motherboard, CPU, and memory. There's something inherantly wrong there.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
First small boxes should only be used when there is no choice. Heat travels upward and it is hard to beat a large tall case for its ability to keep systems running in a cool state. Small and heat are joined at the hip.
However we are about to see components moved outside the box and radio linked to the PC. Your hard drive will be in a closet some place. Your video card will be inside your minitor and your sound card will reside inside your speakers. Powerful CPUs are getting so cheap that there is simply no reason a sound card can not have its own dedicated CPU and the same with other components. No longer must we depend upon some embedded micro processor and spoon feed it data. Just slap the equivalent of a pretty good computer inside every remotely located comopnent and etherlink the rig as a network. I'll bet on it!
I remember the 'Jonathan' design prototypes Apple developed in the 80's. Essentially the computer would consist of modules that plugged into a common backplane, extending the plane as it went.
It looked a lot like a row of books standing on a desk. Working out the various buses would be an interesting challenge, (just put everything onto fiber optics?) but it could be very small or large, depending on user tastes and what hardware they'd acquired. And parts could easily be reused or replaced.
Naturally, being a really cool idea, nothing came of it. (particularly since Apple was considering opening the standard to everyone)
There's some pictures in the book "Apple Design" but I haven't seen any online.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
I would like to see thin computers. It's possible to make the whole thing 2 centimeters tall spreading over a larger plane area.
So it could be attached to walls, doors, etc.. Inside them also.
I think these are unused places, and could save desk and office spaces.
Buy a Nintendo DS Lite