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LindowsOS.com Email Lists Collected For MS Suit
Over at the LindowsOS website is a message from company chief Michael Robertson, who advises readers that, in the course of discovery for the ongoing lawsuit instigated by Microsoft against Lindows.com, the company was "compelled to disclose your email address to Microsoft." The email addresses aren't just those who have submitted product names with a connection to "Windows", but rather "everyone who had
submitted their address asking to be signed up for the Lindows.com mailing
list since we turned on the website," according to email from Robertson. He adds: "The information which Microsoft
received in the list was name, email address and physical address. It was
not just people that posted to our forum, but basically every address for
every person that we had collected." (Note: If you'd like to contribute to the list of "Windows" products, it would be helpful to include more than just a product name photocopy -- e.g. a company name, URL, or photocopied manual.).Update by HeUnique: And here is Michael Robertson comment.
NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS: Requests for information are not offered to residents of the state of Washington.
Why is that?
What possible use could that email list be in a trademark case? Additionally, how can MS force them to hand over the addresses and even some of the messages when the Lindows privacy promise explicitly said they would do no such thing? (Yes I am aware the promise wasn't written for this purpose, just seems like it should have an effect.)
This is the guy who completely sold out MP3.com and made it a hellhole of commercialism and a place where now, any artist who ever posted their mp3s on the site, has no way at all to remove them from their database. They have officially become 'property' of MP3.com, which is basically a subsidiary of Universal at this point.
In any case, he has a pretty bad track record when it comes to lawsuits. Expect to start getting fabulous offers (that you can't afford to refuse!) sent to your physical mailing address 'compelling' you to upgrade to future new subscription-based versions of Lindows XP. Ha.
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Your privacy is no longer protected by a web site statement. Beware!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
...is that Microsoft has a very high chance of winning this case.
For example, take a look at the list of other product names that have "Windows" or something similar in them. All of these products run on Windows. They aren't a competitor to Microsoft's core operating system business; rather, they enhance that market by providing valuable third-party add-ons to Windows.
Lindows, on the other hand, is obviously capitalizing on the popularity of Windows. To make matters worse, Lindows has a real problem becuase the name is phonetically so similar to Microsoft's product. Try to say "Lindows" out loud in a sentence. In fact, try saying the following out loud to someone else and see what they think you said:
"Lindows is an operating system that runs on your personal computer."
In fact, this is the worst possible outcome for Microsoft, because they HAVE to sue to protect their trademark. Suing a) creates negative publicity for Microsoft by geeks who think Microsoft is just trying to lay the smack down on a smaller competitor; and b) creates a lot of publicity of something that may be a threat to Microsoft's core business.
I would hazard a guess that this lawsuit will generate more publicity and hype for the-soon-to-be-former-"Lindows" than the product would have on its own. Had it not been named so similarly to Windows, I doubt that many people outside of the geek community would have even paid attention to it. As it is, even though it costs $99 per user and can't run everything as well as the real Windows, it still puts egg on Microsoft's face.
It must really stink for Microsoft to have to give tons of free publicity to a direct competitor. I'd look for Microsoft to push for a quiet settlement and get the "Lindows" pill swallowed as quickly as possible.
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At first I wanted to immediately go to lindows.com and sign up so that Microsoft would see how many people were interested in an alternative to their product. However, after thinking about it for a minute, perhaps they are going to argue that all the people signed up at the lindows.com site actually wanted to sign up at windows.com. They could then claim lost revenue and "strengthen" their case.
Far-fetched you say? Didn't AOL win an injunction against GAIM for something similar?
Linux User #296508 Get Counted!
Why don't the Lindows people subpoena MicroSoft's customer list? I'm sure they could find out a lot of potentially useful information from MS customers. Er, useful in the court case, I mean.
Given MS's record with getting the courts to like them, it doesn't sound too implausible that the court would order them to comply (or drop the suit).
It's true that MicroSoft has a good case here, but that doesn't mean they won't mess it up. They seem not to have realized that, while justice is theoretically blind, it can still you giving it the finger.
I think everyone's missing the point.
As far as I am concerned, Lindows voluntarily handed over the marketing information(e-mail, physical address, etc.) since I have not heard of a judge ordering Lindows to handover the information or anything like that.
Considering Michael Robertson, former founder and CEO of MP3.com, is a total sellout, it isn't unlikely that he sold out on Lindows too.
I seriously do not see why people are so sympathetic to Robertson. Lindows is definetely a closed-source program and the claim that it can run both Win32 and Linux programs has not been confirmed. Furthermore, if you want to be "Lindows Insider" and want a "sneak preview", you have to pay $99/year. Did someone say "subscription-based software"?
That's it, I am stating my own OS called Winux. It'll be sweet, run Linux and MS stuff. Ignore all the other Winux stuff on the web, they are posers, my CHIMP* is real
CHIMP - Chimp Has Incredible Monkey Power
There is a SW company in Charlottesville, Virginia, called Macrosoft Systems. It's been around at least 4 years (maybe more), and I can't believe Gates hasn't gone down there to give them the ol' hook and ladder.
A couple of questions: can you really put your hand on your heart and say that the choice of the name "Lindows" isn't a deliberate attempt to ride off Microsoft's name? Let me put that a different way: if Microsoft Windows wasn't called Windows, but something else, say "Microsoft Doors" do you really think that Lindows.com would still have chosen that name? Somehow, I don't think so. But you might disagree.
Secondly, examine the issue of handing over email addresses and so on for a minute. This issue is raised in the context of trying to start a campaign in defense of Lindows.com. Do you think this isn't an attempt to drum up sympathy? Why do you think Microsoft's attorneys (note - this isn't actually Microsoft, a subtle but important distinction) would have specifically asked for this data? Isn't it possible, or even probable, as part of the normal discovery process, that they would just ask for everything on their servers? That is, after all, the normal procedure. The reason it's called "discovery" is because they're asking for everything in an attempt to find what might be there - in other words, they don't know a priori what's on their servers, or in their filing cabinets. Why focus on this one piece of information? It could just as well be that Lindows.com have chosen to focus on the fact that personal details get scooped up in the normal discovery process, and publicise that as part of a campaign to get people on-side, and whip up some anti-Microsoft frenzy. Do you think that Microsoft's attorneys walked in and demanded the contact database, and nothing else? If not, why only mention the one set of data?
Just trying to apply some healthy skepticism here...
As to the actual trademark issue, Microsoft calls their products "Microsoft Windows XP Professional" and we call ours "LindowsOS". There is no confusion.
Also, Microsoft is alleging that anytime someone uses the word "windows" that means Microsoft. Take a trip to your local computer shop and see for yourself how many products are called "Windows something" on the store shelf that AREN'T endorsed by Microsoft in any way and yet aren't sued.
Apparently, when it's convenient for them, Microsoft claims that any use of "windows" is an infringement and unleashs their 600 person legal department and Bill's dads 350 lawyer firm Preston Gates as well. But only at rare times when its a convenient measure to block competition and chase away potential funding sources.
If you're helping extend their monopoly through use of windows term or not a perceived threat, then your use is ignored. Not a bad strategy to continue their hold on an illegally created monopoly if the courts will let you get away with it.
-- MR
Maybe I'm wrong, but consider this:
The main reason napster became as huge as it did, was because of all the controversy caused by the RIAA, Lars, etc. It makes you wonder, would it have ever gotten that big had they not made such a big deal out of it? Thanks to them, napster became a household word, and then music sharing exploded on the net. Had they kept quiet, who knows...
My point being, since MS is making such a big deal out of this, it could actually work against them. More and more people are going to get the word, and be curious, maybe want to try it (the whole "any press is good press" deal).
I know I've been approached by my non-computer friends asking about this "Lindows thing", which surprised me, as they would never had had the slightest interest in linux.
So who knows, maybe it will work in their favor.
Damn straight! Someone please show me some evidence that this "LindowsOS" isn't simply a modified RH/Whatever Distro with Wine? I certainly haven't seen anything to suggest the contrary.
I would say right now that you would be a fool to pay $100 for LindowsOS when you can buy a good quality distro like RH/Mandrake containing the very best of Open Source development (both of which include Wine, ready to go on install) for a mere $10 - I suspect the quality of these distros will be much higher with better installers (mind you, I suppose they could pinch HardDrake or one of those since they are OpenSource).
Michael sounds to me like a bit of a "Chegwin", trying to earn money off the backs of others hard work and contributions and I say boo to you Michael!
I mean, come on, $100 a pop? Will the developers of Wine see any of that? Will Mr Torvalds? Will theKompany or the GNU people see any of that? Bet you a zillion trillion quid your "LindowsOS" uses software made by all these people. If you make money from their work, why shouldn't they?
Oh by the way, I still hope you win the court case, just because I still consider you the lesser of two evils.
(But only just!)
There _is_ confusion, between 'Windows' and 'Lindows', as the majority of the crowd will call both products. Ask an average joe in the street if he knows the OS 'Windows' and he probably will say 'yes'. It's also not up to YOU to decide that there is NO confusion. the 'dows' in your name IS refering to Windows, not to Dow Jones or anything else.
/. By your own reasoning any name the contains a subset of the characters in windows is confusing and therefore should not be allowed.
And please, stop the yadda yadda about 'if you want to help extend their monopoly'... you try to make a living out of the hard work of others as you also did with MP3.com. If there is ONE person that should be ashamed, it should be you.
This is one of the most stupid comments if ever read on
I went to the store the other day and bought some window cleaner and brought it home and was confused because i couldn't run it on my PC. Those bastards should not be allowed to call their product Window cleaner if it does not have anything to do with microsoft products.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
First of all, a Winmodem is not an OS.
Second of all the sole purpose of the name Lindows is to sound like Windows. They are profiting, or attempting to, off of Windows popularity, then it is an infringement.
Now Microsoft is under no obligation to sue everyone who profits off of its' trademarks, but they have every right to sue those that choose to go this path. It is not surprising that Microsoft chose Lindows. If Lindows would have come up with a more generic name, Microsoft would have no case. Microsoft is just making sure that whatever competition they have out there is fair. An unsuspecting user might buy Lindows thinking that it was a Microsoft product, and that makes the competition unfair.
Is this how Lindows wants to make its money? Or do they want to prove to the world that they are a better alternative. If so, then a simple name change will take care of both issues.
Just because it's Microsoft doesn't make it evil.
Why is it that people always hear what I say, and not what I mean?