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LindowsOS.com Email Lists Collected For MS Suit
Over at the LindowsOS website is a message from company chief Michael Robertson, who advises readers that, in the course of discovery for the ongoing lawsuit instigated by Microsoft against Lindows.com, the company was "compelled to disclose your email address to Microsoft." The email addresses aren't just those who have submitted product names with a connection to "Windows", but rather "everyone who had
submitted their address asking to be signed up for the Lindows.com mailing
list since we turned on the website," according to email from Robertson. He adds: "The information which Microsoft
received in the list was name, email address and physical address. It was
not just people that posted to our forum, but basically every address for
every person that we had collected." (Note: If you'd like to contribute to the list of "Windows" products, it would be helpful to include more than just a product name photocopy -- e.g. a company name, URL, or photocopied manual.).Update by HeUnique: And here is Michael Robertson comment.
Next thing you know Joe_potential_Lindows_User
will be "sending" a letter to congress praising M$'s "Right to Innovate", along with his dead cat, fish, and web server.
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS: Requests for information are not offered to residents of the state of Washington.
Why is that?
What possible use could that email list be in a trademark case? Additionally, how can MS force them to hand over the addresses and even some of the messages when the Lindows privacy promise explicitly said they would do no such thing? (Yes I am aware the promise wasn't written for this purpose, just seems like it should have an effect.)
This is the guy who completely sold out MP3.com and made it a hellhole of commercialism and a place where now, any artist who ever posted their mp3s on the site, has no way at all to remove them from their database. They have officially become 'property' of MP3.com, which is basically a subsidiary of Universal at this point.
In any case, he has a pretty bad track record when it comes to lawsuits. Expect to start getting fabulous offers (that you can't afford to refuse!) sent to your physical mailing address 'compelling' you to upgrade to future new subscription-based versions of Lindows XP. Ha.
JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP IRRIGATE
Your privacy is no longer protected by a web site statement. Beware!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
...and starts more MS bashing, refresh yourself on the actual post first. Granted, the article brief makes you inclined to think that this post is another chance to bash Microsoft, but something good has come out of it nevertheless.
The "Michael's Minutes" article which is linked to has a primairy purpose of NOT bashing Microsoft or jumping to conclusions about the "seizing" of the emails, but instead ask everyone out there in the Lindows.com community to help them in their case. They've developed a strategy to aid their case by trying to find AS MANY products out there on the market that have some kind of "Windows"-derrived name. Here's the actual important text:
Here's how you can help. We are composing a list of the many hundreds of products named "Windows Something" or "Something Windows" or even variations on the word windows, which are not from Microsoft. We know there are many, many products that fit this characterization and we could use your assistance to help us create this list. We are looking for hardware products, software products, products for any operating system and even operating systems themselves.
You can help us generate this list at www.lindows.com/list in three different ways:
1. By submitting titles which can be added to our
list by filling out this simple form www.lindows.com/listform
2. Send in printed materials which use the term "window(s)" generically such as software boxes or complete manuals to our offices, the older the better:
Lindows.com, Inc.
Attn: Legal Info
4350 La Jolla Village Drive Suite 450
San Diego, CA 92122
I say go for it. The goal is to catch Microsoft's real motivation for pursuing this lawsuit against Lindows: targeting competition rather than enforcing their trademark. So, rather than bash Microsoft here, take some time and actually help out the fight against them!
No matter how reviled M$ is... the term Lindows DOES infringe on the name Windows...
Unless there's prior permission given by the company, it's illegal...
I mean, after all, if a company came along calling itself Lisney, and had a character named Lickey Louse, there would definitely be concern. Perhaps we must think in a broader, more even-handed perspective in order to fully grasp the basic facts of the case.
they'll make you turn over all our user account info soon
Good! It's about time MS learned about my awesome Karma - that'll teach 'em some respect!
sic transit gloria mundi
...is that Microsoft has a very high chance of winning this case.
For example, take a look at the list of other product names that have "Windows" or something similar in them. All of these products run on Windows. They aren't a competitor to Microsoft's core operating system business; rather, they enhance that market by providing valuable third-party add-ons to Windows.
Lindows, on the other hand, is obviously capitalizing on the popularity of Windows. To make matters worse, Lindows has a real problem becuase the name is phonetically so similar to Microsoft's product. Try to say "Lindows" out loud in a sentence. In fact, try saying the following out loud to someone else and see what they think you said:
"Lindows is an operating system that runs on your personal computer."
In fact, this is the worst possible outcome for Microsoft, because they HAVE to sue to protect their trademark. Suing a) creates negative publicity for Microsoft by geeks who think Microsoft is just trying to lay the smack down on a smaller competitor; and b) creates a lot of publicity of something that may be a threat to Microsoft's core business.
I would hazard a guess that this lawsuit will generate more publicity and hype for the-soon-to-be-former-"Lindows" than the product would have on its own. Had it not been named so similarly to Windows, I doubt that many people outside of the geek community would have even paid attention to it. As it is, even though it costs $99 per user and can't run everything as well as the real Windows, it still puts egg on Microsoft's face.
It must really stink for Microsoft to have to give tons of free publicity to a direct competitor. I'd look for Microsoft to push for a quiet settlement and get the "Lindows" pill swallowed as quickly as possible.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
From Lindows.com
:)
Lindows.com may disclose personal information to third parties we engage to provide services that involve data processing on our behalf. Also, if some or all of the assets of Lindows.com are sold to a third party, such third party will be entitled to use the personal information disclosed by users of this Web Site, but only in accordance with the terms of this Privacy Statement.
Now, someone explain. Does Microsoft help them with data processing? No. Have any assets of Lindows.com been sold to a third party? No. Therefore, they're in breach of their Privacy Policy, which is clearly stated here.
They do cover themselves by saying this: "Lindows.com reserves the right to change this policy at any time by posting a new privacy policy at this location." However, there's been no change to their privacy policy. Somebody made a boo-boo, it seems, because no amount of forcing should compel Lindows.com to break their own privacy contract with their customer/supporter.
Actually, reading it again, there's one place where the website COULD share your information: "We do not share your contact information with any third party without your consent, except to a court or governmental agency."
Then again, the Microsoft branch of our government probably didn't authorize this anyhow.
It's not like no one ever heard of X-Windows.
It's not like anyone ever looked out of a hole in a fucking wall that had glass in it, either.
Well, Windows was first released in 1985 and the Athena Project was started in MIT in 1984 - I am not sure about the actual "X Window System" name.
BTW, "X Windows" is not the proper name, just something people call X because it sounds like MS Windows ;)
sic transit gloria mundi
Couple of thoughts here.
(1) Even if Lindows.com, Inc., slipped somewhere, I don't see it
as significantly hindering open software in general. To me it seems
Microsoft is partly demonstrating its sour grapes via legal muscle.
It would be interesting if that notion could be lobbied to the public, but
that doesn't make us any better (i.e., it leads
to the Dark Side I guess).
(2) [cut to courtroom scene. Whovian on stand.]
"Your Honor, it says LindowsOS(TM) will have the ability to run both
Windows(R) and Linux(R) software. On the other hand, Microsoft(R)
Windows(R) runs just "Windows" software. So, your Honor, there is no
confusion in my mind that these are two distinct products."
I wonder if this list of contact informations could be turned into
some kind of affidavit attesting to the users NOT being confused
between the two OSes.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
Actually, it's not X Windows, but the X Window System. And actually, Microsoft Windows predates it -- Windows was released in 1983, and the X Window System's first commercial release was in 1986.
I'd guess that most product names that could help Lindows have already been submitted. Really, the name "Lindows" is pretty much doomed at this point.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Strictly speaking, it's "X Window System" or something like that, and it definitely predates Microsoft Windows by many years.
But you forget about the special place for Microsoft under the law. It can use "Window" without infringing on "X Window System," it can even use "X" (for X-box) without infringing on "X Window System" or causing the slightest amount of confusion about what "X programming" is.
Meanwhile, it's nothing but piracy if any other company uses "Micro-", "-soft" or more than three consecutive letters out of "Windows."
We might think this shows the emotional maturity of a 2-year-old, but we're not billionaires.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
In this case, I'd love to see the defense attorney tell the judge:
Why don't the Lindows people subpoena MicroSoft's customer list? I'm sure they could find out a lot of potentially useful information from MS customers. Er, useful in the court case, I mean.
Given MS's record with getting the courts to like them, it doesn't sound too implausible that the court would order them to comply (or drop the suit).
It's true that MicroSoft has a good case here, but that doesn't mean they won't mess it up. They seem not to have realized that, while justice is theoretically blind, it can still you giving it the finger.
Statistics lie, and you just told some whoopers.
1) That site you linked to clearly states that MS Windows was not released until late November, 1985, two years after the announcement. It may have been announced in 1983, but every Windows release has come out years late. Windows 95 was not originally called '95, and it barely made it. Same with Windows 2000.
2) MS Windows 1.0 followed the Microsoft tradition established by MS DOS 1.0. It was unusable crap that satisfied nobody but the lawyers. Did Microsoft release software in 1985? Sure. It was totally unusable on any real system, but it satisfied the terms of the contract and gave Microsoft some breathing room to try again.
And just like DOS, Windows did not become a viable package until the 3.x days.
(IIRC, Office followed the same pattern. Microsoft is nothing if not consistent.)
3) The first commercial release of X might have been in 1986, but that's completely irrelevant since X was developed in the academic world. The X Window System was out for years by this point.
4) For the same reason, X was a viable package by the time it was commercially released.
Put it all together, and you have the situation reported by many people here - the X Window System predates MS Windows by about a decade, and is roughly contemporary with the Lisa and Mac. Microsoft may have announced its windowing system at about the same time, but in practice *everyone* used their own or third-party graphics routines until Windows 3.1 came out... and suddenly Microsoft applications couldn't run on DR-DOS, etc.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Privacy statements are not intended to protect your privacy. They are often marketing ploys specifically engineered to gain your trust so the company can exploit it.
Think about it -- would you really know if the Web site was not honoring its privacy statement? Are there any laws forcing the site to follow its stated policy? If so, are those laws enforcible?
In some cases (perhaps pertaining to certain bank or medical information) there are laws protecting you, but never assume you're protected simply because a "privacy statement" says you are.
Truth-in-advertising types of laws, implied contracts, ...
If so, are those laws enforcible?
If you have deep-enough pockets, then there's a good chance they're enforcable. Otherwise they can run roughshod over you, and there's nothing you can (afford to) do about it.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
As to the actual trademark issue, Microsoft calls their products "Microsoft Windows XP Professional" and we call ours "LindowsOS". There is no confusion.
Also, Microsoft is alleging that anytime someone uses the word "windows" that means Microsoft. Take a trip to your local computer shop and see for yourself how many products are called "Windows something" on the store shelf that AREN'T endorsed by Microsoft in any way and yet aren't sued.
Apparently, when it's convenient for them, Microsoft claims that any use of "windows" is an infringement and unleashs their 600 person legal department and Bill's dads 350 lawyer firm Preston Gates as well. But only at rare times when its a convenient measure to block competition and chase away potential funding sources.
If you're helping extend their monopoly through use of windows term or not a perceived threat, then your use is ignored. Not a bad strategy to continue their hold on an illegally created monopoly if the courts will let you get away with it.
-- MR
You remind me of the moron I got into an argument with who claimed that Microsoft had stolen the look and feel of Motif for Windows 3.0 as if everything first originates in the Unix world.
BTW, in case you didn't know the look and feel of Motif came from Microsoft. The goal was for X11 to look similar to other Windowing UIs. Check the copyright for Motif and you'll see Microsoft's name listed in the credits.
Sometimes anti-MS attitudes can go to far.
Why shouldn't they?
Why should they?
These people have already given their software out to the greater good. They've given up their ability to directly profit from it, and how is that bad? It's their decision.
As for price, let the markets decide if it's worth it. DOn't call anyone stupid for using the program, let them decide if it's worth it to them and trust in their own judgement. If Lindows fails then it fails and it's not skin off of anyone's back.
If it succeeds, though, it will help move linux out into the real world a lot more and in the end it will actually help the rest of the distributions. The people who wrote these programs will benefit in that indirect way. This is really what they signed up for in releasing their software under OS.
Hopefully Lindows will contribute improvements back to the main projects, but even if it doesn't it's still a good thing. I think you're completely offbase with this attack on Michael's project.
That was not the reasoning at all.
... ;-)
In fact Lindows contains "indows" of Windows, not just "dows" (I'm fascinated by how many people can't read here). The point being made by the previous poster is that the reason they chose "Lindows" over, say, "Leenex" is because they're making an alternative to "Windows" not a tissue
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)