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LindowsOS.com Email Lists Collected For MS Suit
Over at the LindowsOS website is a message from company chief Michael Robertson, who advises readers that, in the course of discovery for the ongoing lawsuit instigated by Microsoft against Lindows.com, the company was "compelled to disclose your email address to Microsoft." The email addresses aren't just those who have submitted product names with a connection to "Windows", but rather "everyone who had
submitted their address asking to be signed up for the Lindows.com mailing
list since we turned on the website," according to email from Robertson. He adds: "The information which Microsoft
received in the list was name, email address and physical address. It was
not just people that posted to our forum, but basically every address for
every person that we had collected." (Note: If you'd like to contribute to the list of "Windows" products, it would be helpful to include more than just a product name photocopy -- e.g. a company name, URL, or photocopied manual.).Update by HeUnique: And here is Michael Robertson comment.
Next thing you know Joe_potential_Lindows_User
will be "sending" a letter to congress praising M$'s "Right to Innovate", along with his dead cat, fish, and web server.
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS: Requests for information are not offered to residents of the state of Washington.
Why is that?
What possible use could that email list be in a trademark case? Additionally, how can MS force them to hand over the addresses and even some of the messages when the Lindows privacy promise explicitly said they would do no such thing? (Yes I am aware the promise wasn't written for this purpose, just seems like it should have an effect.)
This is the guy who completely sold out MP3.com and made it a hellhole of commercialism and a place where now, any artist who ever posted their mp3s on the site, has no way at all to remove them from their database. They have officially become 'property' of MP3.com, which is basically a subsidiary of Universal at this point.
In any case, he has a pretty bad track record when it comes to lawsuits. Expect to start getting fabulous offers (that you can't afford to refuse!) sent to your physical mailing address 'compelling' you to upgrade to future new subscription-based versions of Lindows XP. Ha.
JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP IRRIGATE
Give the usual MicroSquish business ethics, you will be signed up for "product information and news" for everything from X-10 to porn. Good luck, your mail box will soon look like my AOL account. I wonder if M$ have anything to do with that as well, there can'nt be that many dumb asses who buy a penis enarger sales kit. It would not be beyond the company that pays to have dead people write congressmen. Such is the stuff of software ownership and "aggesive" marketing.
As an internal email from M$ once told, there were two conditions for a new NT product that interfaced with Unix, that it make money for M$ and that it kill Unix. Needless to say, that project useful project did not happen.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Your privacy is no longer protected by a web site statement. Beware!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Dear Lindows.com Friend,
As a Lindows.com Friend, we at Microsoft hold you responsible for encroaching on the Microsoft brand with the naming of the Lindows product. Microsoft is shocked and appalled at the countless number of people that each made the executive level decision of approving this product name, and plan on holding every one of you responsible. In addition, you will be added to all of the Microsoft, MSN, and MSDN mailing lists to further convince you of the uniqueness of the Microsoft brand. We also might forward all of the blocked SPAM at Hotmail.com to you, since we now have your email addresses.
Sincerely,
*******, Head of Corporate Branding
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
...and starts more MS bashing, refresh yourself on the actual post first. Granted, the article brief makes you inclined to think that this post is another chance to bash Microsoft, but something good has come out of it nevertheless.
The "Michael's Minutes" article which is linked to has a primairy purpose of NOT bashing Microsoft or jumping to conclusions about the "seizing" of the emails, but instead ask everyone out there in the Lindows.com community to help them in their case. They've developed a strategy to aid their case by trying to find AS MANY products out there on the market that have some kind of "Windows"-derrived name. Here's the actual important text:
Here's how you can help. We are composing a list of the many hundreds of products named "Windows Something" or "Something Windows" or even variations on the word windows, which are not from Microsoft. We know there are many, many products that fit this characterization and we could use your assistance to help us create this list. We are looking for hardware products, software products, products for any operating system and even operating systems themselves.
You can help us generate this list at www.lindows.com/list in three different ways:
1. By submitting titles which can be added to our
list by filling out this simple form www.lindows.com/listform
2. Send in printed materials which use the term "window(s)" generically such as software boxes or complete manuals to our offices, the older the better:
Lindows.com, Inc.
Attn: Legal Info
4350 La Jolla Village Drive Suite 450
San Diego, CA 92122
I say go for it. The goal is to catch Microsoft's real motivation for pursuing this lawsuit against Lindows: targeting competition rather than enforcing their trademark. So, rather than bash Microsoft here, take some time and actually help out the fight against them!
No matter how reviled M$ is... the term Lindows DOES infringe on the name Windows...
Unless there's prior permission given by the company, it's illegal...
I mean, after all, if a company came along calling itself Lisney, and had a character named Lickey Louse, there would definitely be concern. Perhaps we must think in a broader, more even-handed perspective in order to fully grasp the basic facts of the case.
"Here's how you can help. We are composing a list of the many hundreds of products named "Windows Something" or "Something Windows" or even variations on the word windows, which are not from Microsoft. We know there are many, many products that fit this characterization and we could use your assistance to help us create this list. We are looking for hardware products, software products, products for any operating system and even operating systems themselves"
Hardware, well only thing I can think of is that pane of glass in my wall... umm, unless he's talking about boxes of hardware that say "Designed for Microsoft Windows."
Software. Wow. Hmm... how about anything named "XXXXX for Windows".
My favorite part is the "even operating systems themselves." That's funny. Cause the only OS that I know of that has 'Windows' in its name is...well... Windows!
This guy hasn't a leg to stand on. I think he likes getting himself into trouble and then making up bullshit excuses for why his interpretation of the law is right. I'm certainly not for the RIAA (H.R. can lick my nards), but it's kind of like him explaining why the MP3s on my.mp3.com were..uh.. 'legal.' By his interpretation anyway.
Face it, this guy knows he did wrong. Just think what would have happened if Microsoft named their Internet browser Metscape Mavigator.... But it begins with M (for Microsoft)! It's different!
Oh, and for the curious, here is their privacy policy:
"Contact Information: Some areas of the Site request or require contact and other information. During the registration process, we collect information such as your name, mailing address, and e-mail address. Your contact information may be used to get in touch with you when necessary with respect to transactions conducted through the Site or for other internal purposes. We do not share your contact information with any third party without your consent, except to a court or governmental agency if permitted by law, as authorized by a court of competent jurisdiction or to the limited extent described below under "Certain Third Party Transactions". "
Looks like that just flew out the door... er, window.
they'll make you turn over all our user account info soon
Good! It's about time MS learned about my awesome Karma - that'll teach 'em some respect!
sic transit gloria mundi
...is that Microsoft has a very high chance of winning this case.
For example, take a look at the list of other product names that have "Windows" or something similar in them. All of these products run on Windows. They aren't a competitor to Microsoft's core operating system business; rather, they enhance that market by providing valuable third-party add-ons to Windows.
Lindows, on the other hand, is obviously capitalizing on the popularity of Windows. To make matters worse, Lindows has a real problem becuase the name is phonetically so similar to Microsoft's product. Try to say "Lindows" out loud in a sentence. In fact, try saying the following out loud to someone else and see what they think you said:
"Lindows is an operating system that runs on your personal computer."
In fact, this is the worst possible outcome for Microsoft, because they HAVE to sue to protect their trademark. Suing a) creates negative publicity for Microsoft by geeks who think Microsoft is just trying to lay the smack down on a smaller competitor; and b) creates a lot of publicity of something that may be a threat to Microsoft's core business.
I would hazard a guess that this lawsuit will generate more publicity and hype for the-soon-to-be-former-"Lindows" than the product would have on its own. Had it not been named so similarly to Windows, I doubt that many people outside of the geek community would have even paid attention to it. As it is, even though it costs $99 per user and can't run everything as well as the real Windows, it still puts egg on Microsoft's face.
It must really stink for Microsoft to have to give tons of free publicity to a direct competitor. I'd look for Microsoft to push for a quiet settlement and get the "Lindows" pill swallowed as quickly as possible.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
From Lindows.com
:)
Lindows.com may disclose personal information to third parties we engage to provide services that involve data processing on our behalf. Also, if some or all of the assets of Lindows.com are sold to a third party, such third party will be entitled to use the personal information disclosed by users of this Web Site, but only in accordance with the terms of this Privacy Statement.
Now, someone explain. Does Microsoft help them with data processing? No. Have any assets of Lindows.com been sold to a third party? No. Therefore, they're in breach of their Privacy Policy, which is clearly stated here.
They do cover themselves by saying this: "Lindows.com reserves the right to change this policy at any time by posting a new privacy policy at this location." However, there's been no change to their privacy policy. Somebody made a boo-boo, it seems, because no amount of forcing should compel Lindows.com to break their own privacy contract with their customer/supporter.
Actually, reading it again, there's one place where the website COULD share your information: "We do not share your contact information with any third party without your consent, except to a court or governmental agency."
Then again, the Microsoft branch of our government probably didn't authorize this anyhow.
It's not like no one ever heard of X-Windows.
It's not like anyone ever looked out of a hole in a fucking wall that had glass in it, either.
There's a difference between trying to innovate the commercial OS market and being slapped with a big, juicy subpoena. Don't blame the Lindows people here.
Learn to Play Go
Well, Windows was first released in 1985 and the Athena Project was started in MIT in 1984 - I am not sure about the actual "X Window System" name.
BTW, "X Windows" is not the proper name, just something people call X because it sounds like MS Windows ;)
sic transit gloria mundi
At first I wanted to immediately go to lindows.com and sign up so that Microsoft would see how many people were interested in an alternative to their product. However, after thinking about it for a minute, perhaps they are going to argue that all the people signed up at the lindows.com site actually wanted to sign up at windows.com. They could then claim lost revenue and "strengthen" their case.
Far-fetched you say? Didn't AOL win an injunction against GAIM for something similar?
Linux User #296508 Get Counted!
Couple of thoughts here.
(1) Even if Lindows.com, Inc., slipped somewhere, I don't see it
as significantly hindering open software in general. To me it seems
Microsoft is partly demonstrating its sour grapes via legal muscle.
It would be interesting if that notion could be lobbied to the public, but
that doesn't make us any better (i.e., it leads
to the Dark Side I guess).
(2) [cut to courtroom scene. Whovian on stand.]
"Your Honor, it says LindowsOS(TM) will have the ability to run both
Windows(R) and Linux(R) software. On the other hand, Microsoft(R)
Windows(R) runs just "Windows" software. So, your Honor, there is no
confusion in my mind that these are two distinct products."
I wonder if this list of contact informations could be turned into
some kind of affidavit attesting to the users NOT being confused
between the two OSes.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
the website www.x.org says: "Since its first commercial release in 1986, the X Window System has..."
so i would guess 1986 for X-Windows?
-sam
burn the computers. go back to the abacus.
Actually, it's not X Windows, but the X Window System. And actually, Microsoft Windows predates it -- Windows was released in 1983, and the X Window System's first commercial release was in 1986.
I'd guess that most product names that could help Lindows have already been submitted. Really, the name "Lindows" is pretty much doomed at this point.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Strictly speaking, it's "X Window System" or something like that, and it definitely predates Microsoft Windows by many years.
But you forget about the special place for Microsoft under the law. It can use "Window" without infringing on "X Window System," it can even use "X" (for X-box) without infringing on "X Window System" or causing the slightest amount of confusion about what "X programming" is.
Meanwhile, it's nothing but piracy if any other company uses "Micro-", "-soft" or more than three consecutive letters out of "Windows."
We might think this shows the emotional maturity of a 2-year-old, but we're not billionaires.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Think about this. The second they use this information to communicate product related spam, either direct advertisements or Windows related propoganda, they violate the purpose of collecting the information.
Any self-respecting judge or attorney would not allow the subpoena of information in a trademark dispute case to be turned into undeserved financial gain. This doesn't make sense. If Microsoft uses the information improperly, obviously they will be reprimanded for it.
However, this doesn't mean efforts shouldn't be taken by Lindows counsel to make sure the lists are not established as part of the public record, in which case they would be free domain. Unfortunately, this is another issue altogether.
Technically, it's the "X Window System", although, if ignorami insisted on calling it "X Windows" from the beginning, this may be just a minor quibble X.org claims that the protocol was released publicly in 1986, one year after MS Windows 1.0.
A brief, naive search of the uspto database indicates that microsoft filed for trademark status on August 28, 1991 (Trademark S/N 74198891)
In this case, I'd love to see the defense attorney tell the judge:
Why don't the Lindows people subpoena MicroSoft's customer list? I'm sure they could find out a lot of potentially useful information from MS customers. Er, useful in the court case, I mean.
Given MS's record with getting the courts to like them, it doesn't sound too implausible that the court would order them to comply (or drop the suit).
It's true that MicroSoft has a good case here, but that doesn't mean they won't mess it up. They seem not to have realized that, while justice is theoretically blind, it can still you giving it the finger.
I think Mr. Robertson should send an email to everyone whose information is being sent to Microsoft, warning them of the disclosure.
While he's at it, he should also provide a link to a poll on his website, asking whether any of those people had been initially confused when researching the new OS.
I think the results would be staggeringly positive, and I suspect they would make an impression on the judge.
(Better include a unique code with each email; wouldn't want Microsoft to stack the deck yet again...)
I think everyone's missing the point.
As far as I am concerned, Lindows voluntarily handed over the marketing information(e-mail, physical address, etc.) since I have not heard of a judge ordering Lindows to handover the information or anything like that.
Considering Michael Robertson, former founder and CEO of MP3.com, is a total sellout, it isn't unlikely that he sold out on Lindows too.
I seriously do not see why people are so sympathetic to Robertson. Lindows is definetely a closed-source program and the claim that it can run both Win32 and Linux programs has not been confirmed. Furthermore, if you want to be "Lindows Insider" and want a "sneak preview", you have to pay $99/year. Did someone say "subscription-based software"?
Statistics lie, and you just told some whoopers.
1) That site you linked to clearly states that MS Windows was not released until late November, 1985, two years after the announcement. It may have been announced in 1983, but every Windows release has come out years late. Windows 95 was not originally called '95, and it barely made it. Same with Windows 2000.
2) MS Windows 1.0 followed the Microsoft tradition established by MS DOS 1.0. It was unusable crap that satisfied nobody but the lawyers. Did Microsoft release software in 1985? Sure. It was totally unusable on any real system, but it satisfied the terms of the contract and gave Microsoft some breathing room to try again.
And just like DOS, Windows did not become a viable package until the 3.x days.
(IIRC, Office followed the same pattern. Microsoft is nothing if not consistent.)
3) The first commercial release of X might have been in 1986, but that's completely irrelevant since X was developed in the academic world. The X Window System was out for years by this point.
4) For the same reason, X was a viable package by the time it was commercially released.
Put it all together, and you have the situation reported by many people here - the X Window System predates MS Windows by about a decade, and is roughly contemporary with the Lisa and Mac. Microsoft may have announced its windowing system at about the same time, but in practice *everyone* used their own or third-party graphics routines until Windows 3.1 came out... and suddenly Microsoft applications couldn't run on DR-DOS, etc.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
As I mentioned elsewhere, the X Window System came out of the academic world, so the first COMMERCIAL release is irrelevant. What matters is when other academic users started to use that system, and it was well before 1986.
As for Windows 1.0... I was working as a professional graphics programmer when Windows 1.0 came out. It was unusable crap. Windows 2.0 was unusable crap. Everyone used their own libraries or third-party packages until the release of 3.x.
Pre-Motif X was also a pain to use, but it could be used if you had the display hardware. (VT100s tend to be hard on any GUI.)
BTW, I am not the person who claimed that MS Windows was released in 1983, and "proved" it with a link that clearly stated it was "announced" in 1983, but not released until late 1985. You're awful fast to label other people "liars" and "zealots"
Go back into your Redmond cubicle and tell Bill that you've been caught astroturfing.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Privacy statements are not intended to protect your privacy. They are often marketing ploys specifically engineered to gain your trust so the company can exploit it.
Think about it -- would you really know if the Web site was not honoring its privacy statement? Are there any laws forcing the site to follow its stated policy? If so, are those laws enforcible?
In some cases (perhaps pertaining to certain bank or medical information) there are laws protecting you, but never assume you're protected simply because a "privacy statement" says you are.
Microsoft can use the same list Lindows is compiling to go back and harass or sue the companies/authors of the programs now that it's a hot-button issue... because they can't be inconsistent in the eyes of the court. And it looks like a couple items on the list are open source projects. They'll be real easy pickin's for Microsoft lawyers.
Forget the lawsuit entirely. It's simply not relevant to the important issue. Microsoft has no legal reason whatsoever to obtain the customer email addresses. Period.
If Sears had a dispute with WalMart, they couldn't demand WalMart's customer list. These technophobic neanderthal judges need to be taught this.
-- Will program for bandwidth
It is not X-Windows, It is either reffered to as just X, or The X Windowing System or The X Window System. X Window System is the only term registered as a trademark by The OpenGroup/The X Consortium. The system is also sometimes rreffered to as its major version, that is X11 or major version and revision, that is X11R6.
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
Often being involved with commercial software makes users the target of aggressive behavior.
This is why Open Source software seems so good.
Bush's education improvements were
-Legion
January 14, 2002
I'm not sure if this helps, but from my understanding USP#3534338 basically patents the idea of multiple screens on one computer system user interface (basically the precursor to 3270) and thus multiple programs running on the same computer are accessible via different interfaces. Secondly, USP#4555775 basically patents the idea of multiple graphical virtual screens (called "windows") to represent the multiple physical screens. And of course we all know that neither MS nor Apple created the idea of a window based GUI. USP#4939507 (issued to Xerox for Virtual and emulated objects for use in the user interface of a display screen of a display processor) even refers to the screen interfaces as "windows". And thus Lindows is simply using common industry terminology to describe what it does "Linux-Windows" - running multiple applications through a graphical user interface that displays multiple bitmapped windows running on a Linux OS.
Now, I am aware that this is a trademark issue and not a patent issue; however, trademark law does not allow me to create a creamy sandwich spread and call it "Butter" and then sue over "Butter Buds", "Land O'Lakes Butter", "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter", etc for trademark infringement and declaring their names "confusingly similar". This is the exact reason that Kraft Foods names their delightfully tasty fruit flavored gelatin Jell-O because gelatin is the common word for the product and the marketing and legal staff at Kraft knew calling it Kraft Gelatin would be a bad idea..
The term windows is about as common as calling dirt "dirt". Hence Microsoft's choice of the word Windows for their OS is just their own short sightedness. Unfortunately, 800 pound gorillas aren't known for their intelligence just for their jumping up and down and banging their chest.
Lets show M$ what the /. effect really is, submit till the servers burn, no list if they have an office fire.
FSCK OFF M$
Truth-in-advertising types of laws, implied contracts, ...
If so, are those laws enforcible?
If you have deep-enough pockets, then there's a good chance they're enforcable. Otherwise they can run roughshod over you, and there's nothing you can (afford to) do about it.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
There is a SW company in Charlottesville, Virginia, called Macrosoft Systems. It's been around at least 4 years (maybe more), and I can't believe Gates hasn't gone down there to give them the ol' hook and ladder.
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/vnews/display.v
What an effective way for Microsoft to discourage participation in Open Source projects: find legal ways to insure that if you ever breathed anything online about Open Source your personal data is forfeit to them.
Sounds like a good time to adopt a handle and start making all my contributions anonymously.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
I'm surprised someone else hasn't submitted this yet. Do any of you remember a spoof program named "Microshaft Winblows"? It was released back in January 1998 by Parroty Interactive (who, it looks like, has been out business for quite some time). They also released a program called Pyst (as you've probably guesed, it was a Myst spoof).
/ pc/jan98/winblows.html . Check out how close the artwork is to the MS stuff (which makes sense since it was intended to be a parody)
As far as I can tell "Microshaft Winblows" is the closest name to "Microsoft Windows" ever used for a non-MS piece of software. You can find an old review for the app here: http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews
-GameMaster
Rules of Conduct:
#1 - The DM is always right.
#2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
A couple of questions: can you really put your hand on your heart and say that the choice of the name "Lindows" isn't a deliberate attempt to ride off Microsoft's name? Let me put that a different way: if Microsoft Windows wasn't called Windows, but something else, say "Microsoft Doors" do you really think that Lindows.com would still have chosen that name? Somehow, I don't think so. But you might disagree.
Secondly, examine the issue of handing over email addresses and so on for a minute. This issue is raised in the context of trying to start a campaign in defense of Lindows.com. Do you think this isn't an attempt to drum up sympathy? Why do you think Microsoft's attorneys (note - this isn't actually Microsoft, a subtle but important distinction) would have specifically asked for this data? Isn't it possible, or even probable, as part of the normal discovery process, that they would just ask for everything on their servers? That is, after all, the normal procedure. The reason it's called "discovery" is because they're asking for everything in an attempt to find what might be there - in other words, they don't know a priori what's on their servers, or in their filing cabinets. Why focus on this one piece of information? It could just as well be that Lindows.com have chosen to focus on the fact that personal details get scooped up in the normal discovery process, and publicise that as part of a campaign to get people on-side, and whip up some anti-Microsoft frenzy. Do you think that Microsoft's attorneys walked in and demanded the contact database, and nothing else? If not, why only mention the one set of data?
Just trying to apply some healthy skepticism here...
You should not give such companies any information that you want them to keep secret.
If Lindows if phonetically (sp?) similar to Windows, why not just callit Linders or something? That takes care of the phonetics.
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
According to the law, Microsoft MUST sue in order to avoid what is known as trademark abandonment.
Sure. But they're also entirely welcome to accept that "Lindows" isn't an infringement and let it go.
The law doesn't prohibit them from being reasonable.
They did say; it was part of the 'discovery' phase of the lawsuit, when each side can ask the other for *whatever* documentation they feel is necessary for their case. Discovery can be a very wide ranging expedition.
Is this a "you must hand over anything the other side asks for". Or can one side or other ask the court to void requests on the grounds they lack relevance.
2002-01-10 21:59:08 Is the XP name copyrighted already? (askslashdot,microsoft) (rejected)
This is from a story I submitted earlier. I'm not going to type it again, but here are the links, you check it out. Look at the copyright date and remember that XP is a generic term for WindowsXP, and Microsoft often uses the term "XP" for Windows XP. It's used in commercials, and elsewhere. Does this cross the line?
XP - an XML Parser in Java
Google:Searched the web for XP. The above page is the second one down.
Get your Unix fortune now!
As to the actual trademark issue, Microsoft calls their products "Microsoft Windows XP Professional" and we call ours "LindowsOS". There is no confusion.
Also, Microsoft is alleging that anytime someone uses the word "windows" that means Microsoft. Take a trip to your local computer shop and see for yourself how many products are called "Windows something" on the store shelf that AREN'T endorsed by Microsoft in any way and yet aren't sued.
Apparently, when it's convenient for them, Microsoft claims that any use of "windows" is an infringement and unleashs their 600 person legal department and Bill's dads 350 lawyer firm Preston Gates as well. But only at rare times when its a convenient measure to block competition and chase away potential funding sources.
If you're helping extend their monopoly through use of windows term or not a perceived threat, then your use is ignored. Not a bad strategy to continue their hold on an illegally created monopoly if the courts will let you get away with it.
-- MR
Maybe I'm wrong, but consider this:
The main reason napster became as huge as it did, was because of all the controversy caused by the RIAA, Lars, etc. It makes you wonder, would it have ever gotten that big had they not made such a big deal out of it? Thanks to them, napster became a household word, and then music sharing exploded on the net. Had they kept quiet, who knows...
My point being, since MS is making such a big deal out of this, it could actually work against them. More and more people are going to get the word, and be curious, maybe want to try it (the whole "any press is good press" deal).
I know I've been approached by my non-computer friends asking about this "Lindows thing", which surprised me, as they would never had had the slightest interest in linux.
So who knows, maybe it will work in their favor.
They only have to hand over anything to Microsoft that they themselves are intending to use as evidence in the trial.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Or to set a competitor up so that the best-for-the-shareholder path (hah!) is to be bought out by Microsoft (and often shut down, as was apparently the plan for Hancom Office).
Anyway, if LindowsOS hits market and works as advertised I'm sure a large market segment will buy your product just to spit in Microsoft's eye.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Microsoft Windows XP -- 14 days without a remote hole in the default install!
Bush's education improvements were
Nice therory. Which well have you been living at the bottom of for the last two decades?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Wrong. RTFShA (Read The Fscking Sherman Act). Even I as a european know that much. Here's the first sentence of the 2nd section, straight from the DOJ website:
In other words, having a monopoly is definitely illegal under the Sherman Act.
Sorry if I sound a little harsh, but I am getting tired of having my favourite fora overrun by Microsoft shills trying to downplay their crimes. Not that I am saying that you are such a shill, just that I am fed up with this line of baloney.
Mart"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
There is also a genetic company called Microsort who let you choose the sex of your baby! Not quite a direct market connection HOWEVER with the rate MS is extending it's monopoly how long could it be (well how long before they start releasing genetic processing software anyway). Unfortunatley /. refused my story post of "Microsort chooses your sex" all those months ago when I first discovered it, I was aghast at the concept until I discovered the name of the country and then I pissed myself:-)
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
If sex were liscensed under a BSD liscence, would you simply have to distribute "how-to" manuals, or would you still have to allow spectators?
I'm the stranger...posting to
Why shouldn't they?
Why should they?
These people have already given their software out to the greater good. They've given up their ability to directly profit from it, and how is that bad? It's their decision.
As for price, let the markets decide if it's worth it. DOn't call anyone stupid for using the program, let them decide if it's worth it to them and trust in their own judgement. If Lindows fails then it fails and it's not skin off of anyone's back.
If it succeeds, though, it will help move linux out into the real world a lot more and in the end it will actually help the rest of the distributions. The people who wrote these programs will benefit in that indirect way. This is really what they signed up for in releasing their software under OS.
Hopefully Lindows will contribute improvements back to the main projects, but even if it doesn't it's still a good thing. I think you're completely offbase with this attack on Michael's project.
There _is_ confusion, between 'Windows' and 'Lindows', as the majority of the crowd will call both products. Ask an average joe in the street if he knows the OS 'Windows' and he probably will say 'yes'. It's also not up to YOU to decide that there is NO confusion. the 'dows' in your name IS refering to Windows, not to Dow Jones or anything else.
/. By your own reasoning any name the contains a subset of the characters in windows is confusing and therefore should not be allowed.
And please, stop the yadda yadda about 'if you want to help extend their monopoly'... you try to make a living out of the hard work of others as you also did with MP3.com. If there is ONE person that should be ashamed, it should be you.
This is one of the most stupid comments if ever read on
I went to the store the other day and bought some window cleaner and brought it home and was confused because i couldn't run it on my PC. Those bastards should not be allowed to call their product Window cleaner if it does not have anything to do with microsoft products.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Apple has a license with Xerox, and the MS suit was settled (much to the detriment of Apple, I'm afraid.)
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Have you tried using the DOMAIN\Username format for your user name?
Most likely the admin doesn't know how to configure basic authentication properly.
Of course, if you're reading your mail in a web browser, you really should get whoever runs it to set up SSL if they haven't already...
Christ, it's a standard part of discovery. You hand over EVERYTHING to the opposing lawyers, and they look for goodies.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
So, basically, what most of you are saying is that if Microsoft wanted to put out a version of UNIX and call it, oh, 'Winux' or, say, Microsoft Linux XP Server, that would be OK?
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I understand that many people use specific accounts for their mailing lists and other spam-generating traffic. It helps keep the signal-to-noise ratio of your real account low. (Assuming you don't use some sort of filtering system.)
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
I used to work a lot with Digital's offerrings. They have had the name DECwindows for their implementation of X since the eighties. It is even a registered trademark!!!
See my journal, I write things there
I'm not saying that it's likely, but some of the peices fit.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
On google, I found references to Lindows and Winux in 1998. Years before Lindows.com even existed.
... yadda yadda yadda..
If Microsoft didn't attempt to stop use of the term "Lindows" (in one case, directly referring to Red Hat 'becoming' Windows 95"), wouldn't it be free to use by now?
Besides, do you call your "Windows" installation Windows, or Windows 2k, or Windows 9x or Windows XP? There are so many of them that are distincly different..
Kinda of like the Kleenex thing (You can't legally call non "Kleenex" tissue paper "Kleenex", but everyone does it anyways..)
Lego tried the same thing 10 or 15 years ago.. I remember reading "Lego would appreciate it if our loyal customers called Lego Building Blocks by their true name, "Lego Building Blocks", and not just "Lego's"
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
People can whine all they want or misread what I ment to say, but it's up to the judge to decide if Lindows is sounding similar to Windows and can THUS cause confusion, it's NOT up to Michael and gang, nor me nor MS.
:). In the field where heads role when something/someone f*cks up, you get the right tools for the job, so f.e. when a router should be installed, most people call cisco and get one of their boxes. Monopoly or not.
The comment of Michael about supporting MS monopoly is utterly stupid. You know why? because in a lot of cases MS' products are the right tools for the job. Who carez about a monopoly, a job is there to be done. Bashing that remark of Michael is probably 'flamebait' in the eyes of the college kids with linux boxes, dunno
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
First of all, a Winmodem is not an OS.
Second of all the sole purpose of the name Lindows is to sound like Windows. They are profiting, or attempting to, off of Windows popularity, then it is an infringement.
Now Microsoft is under no obligation to sue everyone who profits off of its' trademarks, but they have every right to sue those that choose to go this path. It is not surprising that Microsoft chose Lindows. If Lindows would have come up with a more generic name, Microsoft would have no case. Microsoft is just making sure that whatever competition they have out there is fair. An unsuspecting user might buy Lindows thinking that it was a Microsoft product, and that makes the competition unfair.
Is this how Lindows wants to make its money? Or do they want to prove to the world that they are a better alternative. If so, then a simple name change will take care of both issues.
Just because it's Microsoft doesn't make it evil.
Why is it that people always hear what I say, and not what I mean?
And yet, everyone and his little dog calls it X Windows. Which is the important part, as far as trademarks go. Incidentlly, the only trademark on "Windows" as, specifically, a GUI OS, is marked as cancelled. The active one is Microsoft Windows. Theres a current one on just OSes in general, however.
Not at all like the Kleenex thing. You can't legally call non-Kleenex-brand tissue paper "Kleenex," and *NO ONE* does... not in any commercial situation.
Find me a novel in which the lead character blows her nose into a Kleenex. Find me a TV show where a character asks someone to "pass the Kleenex." Or a computer monitor-cleaning product named "Kleenex."
Good luck. Because Kimberly-Clark is a company which has learned its lesson from Bayer: those who don't retain control of their trademark, lose their trademark. If you'll please go to your local magazine shop and look at one of the "Writers Guide"-style magazines, you'll soon find advertisements from K-C telling authors exactly how to use the Kleenex trademark.
Microsoft's protection of the Windows brand is exactly unlike Kimberly-Clark's protection of the Kleenex brand. To wit, it appears that Microsoft has done bugger all to ensure that the term "Windows" is not used in conjuction with computer software of any sort.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I wish I could be sure this was funny. Past practices, however, and difficulty of proof mean that I wouldn't be too surprised.
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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Even if you were to have deep enough pockets, just finding the evidence that they disclosed the evidence would be difficult. Unless you have a very systematic way of misspelling your name or address (and keep good records).
... but that's a much larger wad of cash than just hiring a lawyer.
Of course, with deep enough pockets anyone you choose is guilty of whatever you choose
.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
If that and Outlook won't kill Unix (Solaris in this case) I'm not sure what will. Silly M$ all your plans have come to nothing.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
If they choose to, they could license the use of the name for a penny per year, and that would count as "protecting" it.
So there's no legal requirement that they attack visciously. That's just the MS SOP.
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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Hi, Please add "billg@microsoft.com" to your subscription list.
Thank you.
P.S. My buddy steveb@microsoft.com is interested in receiving more information about your product.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Except they havn't. The Internet is a new medium, and up until now, Microsoft allows use of the term 'Windows' in ways other than in Microsoft Windows (version) througout this medium.
As I said, there are example of this on Google from 1998. That was a 2 minute search. If K-C can dictate how authors use the term "Kleenex", and Microsoft has not done so for the terms Windows, Lindows, Winux, when used by reviewers, it has become commonplace, and should not be protected.
Didn't Bayer lose 'Aspirin'? Maybe that was a better example.
I would say use of the word "Windows" in other product names, and "lindows" being used on the internet, in conversation long before Lindows.com existed, only strenghtens Lindows.com's case.
but. Tis all IMHO. I think MS should be broken up too.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
That was not the reasoning at all.
... ;-)
In fact Lindows contains "indows" of Windows, not just "dows" (I'm fascinated by how many people can't read here). The point being made by the previous poster is that the reason they chose "Lindows" over, say, "Leenex" is because they're making an alternative to "Windows" not a tissue
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I'd think that SGI should be the one suing GLock.
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Hmm Xwindows was around a long time before Windows, and there is only one letter differnce and the name Windows was chosen bacause it also is a windowing system. Who's calling the kettle black?
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
The name was obviously chosen because at the time (about 1990?) "kool" computers used something called "X".
Bayer lost aspirin because it was siezed by the government, along with a lot of other German assets at the beginning of WWII. Bayer still holds the trademark everywhere else in the world, AFAIK.
Kleenex, Coke, and Pepsi, are all vehemently defending their trademarks, though I think they're all in trouble.
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
The system itself did, but I am not sure about the name - do you have a source for that of some sort? I don't even remember (or know, rather) when 'X' was renamed to 'X' from 'W' (some geeky Latin alphabet thing; I am gonna take a guess that 'W' stood for a 'window' derived word of some kind); but I seriously doubt that anything was known as the "X Window System" any time before the MIT project... I'd love to know if anyone has more concrete information.
sic transit gloria mundi
First.. As everyone always says.. There is no such thing as "X Windows". it's "X" or "The X window system"
Also, X predates microsoft.
ALSO... Windows is NOT a 'generic term for a type of GUI'. It is a specific, trademarked name of a line of operating system products sold by Microsoft.
I certainly wouldn't try this in Texas and would definitely hesitate to in anywhere outside of the Peoples Republic of California.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
So where do you stand damnit?!?
:)
(I'm so f*cking lost now..
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
is "Suite" or STE
:)
I put "Suite #####" or "Suite SLASH" for instance on a lot of my mail, and they DO put it through, and keep it there, because they believe it's important.
I'll give you that for free
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Bear in mind that the first Windows wasn't actually graphical (and never mind the fact that it didn't actually work either, this is Microsoft we're discussing) so at release it didn't accomplish what X already did, namely a WYSIWYG-style GUI interface.
Now, given that X is descended from Paul Asente's W Windowing System, which already existed in 1984, tell me, which Window(s|ing) has the longer history?
...which in turn can't be confused with Macintosh or Lisa, but that didn't stop Microsoft from suing Apple, and vice-versa. Did you know that variable-sized elevators are an idea that BillG personally squashed in the first graphical version of Windows because it didn't look exactly like the Macintosh?
But I digress: the Windows system can indeed be confused with any glass-plated hole in the wall which isn't actually a door. The X Windowing System is a little more difficult to confuse with the glassed hole, but still easy to confuse with the Windows system.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing