New Clie Handhelds from Sony

A Commentor writes: "Sony has release two new handhelds including a super slim high-res color model, which has 16M and "AV Remote Control feature". It is also covered at news.com." Looks like Sony will continue to hold the coolest Palm clone crown.

Comments

Remote Control

[Nick Number]

There's already shareware out there that allows you to use a Palm's IR port as a remote control. I only get a range of about 10 feet with my Visor Deluxe though. Hopefully these new ones will work from across the room.

Re:Remote Control

[Sc00ter]

the IR for data transfer and the IR for controlling your TV are in different parts of the spectrum, that's why you Visor and most Palms for that matter don't do a good job at controlling your TV. You can get an IR transmitter for a Visor that fits into the springboard slot that's in the correct part of the spectrum.

HandEra!!!

[Ender_Stonebender]

Sorry, but in my book, the HandEra 330 takes the crown for coolest Palm-compatible PDA. 240X320 screen, virtual Graffiti area. All it's missing is color.

Ender

Re:HandEra!!!

[Gambit Thirty-Two]

I know how you feel. When i was tossing around ideas on what to upgrade to, i was jumping between the s320 clie and a handera 330. The old palm IIIe was a bit outdated, and i needed more than 2megs of space.

Handera's virtual graffiti was what almost won me over. That is DAMNED impressive, and i can say that in all the achievements that these new models have been coming out with, the retractable gf area is the most appealing.

I decided to go with the S320 though. The memory stick was very appealing to me, and with sony's promises for a memorystick camera and gps, i decided it was worth the investment. however, now those are only going to be available for the 600/700 models, i feel i may have made the wrong choice. too late now.

I wanted to get a handheld that was different than the typical palms and handsprings. To me, 2001 showed no vast improvements to the handhelds of those two product lines. More memory, and better color screens. Whoopie. Palm found it necessary to flood the market with very similar handhelds... m100, m105, m125, m500... only big difference is the memory and the availability of a memory slot. There was no single new improvement that REALLY made it worth upgrading this past year.

For the most part, unless you drop or sit on your handheld, theres no real need to upgrade. PalmOS based systems do the same stuff. OS changes arent significant enough to make it worth buying a handheld just for the upgrade. If you've got a memory expansion slot, then theres virtually no reason to upgrade. Need more memory? pop in a bigger memorystick or compact flash and sell the old one on ebay. There are numerous applications now that let you run your apps right off these expansion cards, so thats not even a drawback now.

I honestly feel that palm has to slow down and focus more on what they're putitng into their products to make them stand out and be different. Achievements that set them apart from the other PalmOS models, and from their own previous product line. Just adding more memory is not enough for me to dump my current unit and upgrade.

Re:HandEra!!!

[Chelloveck]

When I went looking for a new Palm last summer, I looked long and hard at both the Handera 330 and the Sony 710. The virtual Grafitti area is sweet; I wish other manufacturers would come out with it. But two things drew me to buy the Sony instead.

1. The Handera's 240-pixel width isn't an integer multiple of the standard 160-pixel width. To view standard low-res Palm apps in full-screen mode means the machine must scale by 1.5. In some of my tests, this caused bitmaps to look really bad. The Sony's 320-pixel width is exactly double the standard. While doubling the pixels makes things look blocky, they still look better than a stock color Palm or Visor.
2. The Sony's screen had much better contrast in all lighting conditions. I wanted a hi-res screen specifically so I could read books. Sony's screen wins, no question.

The Memory Stick format blows. I really wish Sony would adopt something the rest of the world agreed with. But frankly, the 8MB stick included with the 710 is more than enough for me. I just treat it an extra non-removable 8MB of storage anyway, so it doesn't really matter that it's incompatible with everything else I own. For my uses (books, once again; I don't care about MP3s) the stick is fine.

Sony to loose the crown?

[toupsie]

Looks like Sony will continue to hold the coolest Palm clone crown

Though I wish the "iWalk" wasn't a fake, I got a note in my e-mail from Palm that they are releasing some whiz bang, got to buy it, new Palm Pilot (oops cant call it that anymore). But, of course, they won't tell me what it is and I haven't found a Palm rumor site like the Mac guys have. Given that most of the Palms released after the Palm III sucked, I am really hoping Palm does something cool. I haven't bought a new PDA since 1999. There has been nothing on the market to excite me since.

Note to Apple: BRING BACK THE NEWTON!!!

Coolest Palm clone?

[Cutriss]

It's got great color, and it plays MP3s, but I hesitate to say that it's the coolest. I'm absolutely in love with my HandEra 330. This sucker has support for SD memory as well as CF+, meaning that it supports Ethernet connectivity, 802.11b, GSM cell modems, etc. etc., as well as huge honkin' memory cards and the Microdrive. I can run a shell on my HandEra to my uni's Unix server. Can yours do that?

Mine also has a high-resolution screen which makes many programs easier to use since they can fit more data on the screen. It also has a Lithium-Ion rechargeable battery pack available, it comes with a built-in microphone and voice-recording software (Which can record straight to SD or CF if you want), it has that cool jog-dial button so that you can scroll text or start apps with it...and it has a virtual Graffiti area, so that I can reclaim the space it uses if I'm reading e-mail or PDFs. Also, using CardPro, you can install Palm apps directly from SD or CF without syncing. You could even get an FTP app or a web browser and download apps and install them that way.

If color is your thing, HandEra's already got a color model slated for release in a few months. But the flexibility and capability of my unit *far* outweighs the benefits of a measly MP3 player.

Better the real or another totally different thing

[mirko]

I'm actually a little afraid of the Sony thing as it imho doesn't seem as easy to integrate under linux or others environments as the original thing (for example, I don't like this memory stick thing that looks it's here to force me to adopt a newer kind of yet unrecognized device under non-proprietary envts... The Sony spec also read "windows" and neither linux nor even MacOS[9X]).

One, month ago, Palm announced some forthcoming evolution (multitasking,e tc.) to their OS which seems quite promising since they actually bought Be...

I may wait a little and either buy some of these new devices or something totally different, yet exciting but pricier.

Doh!

[conan_albrecht]

Great. Anyone want to buy my Clie 760 which I just purchased for $100 more?!?

Weird Memory Stick stuff

[jvmatthe]

From the page on the N760C:

A standard 8 MB Memory Stick® media is included with your CLIÉ(TM) PEG-N760C handheld. This is adequate for storing a few, non-secure, music tracks at a time. To carry more than a few tracks at once, or to download and play secure music (ATRAC3(TM) audio content) requires a larger MagicGate(TM) Memory Stick® media (sold separately).

This makes me wonder a couple of things.

• With language like "non-secure", which probably sounds to the uninitiated like something bad, how serious is Sony about pushing secure content? After all, they do own the rights to a ton of music. Wording like this makes me think they're planning to lock it all up and make the general public think they're doing the right thing when they rent their "secure" music from Sony.
  
• Since they've clearly got "secure music" in mind, will we see a day when their stock MP3 player won't play "non-secure" music? If they did so, how open is the Sony hardware to creating third party players that would play "non-secure" music.
  

I mean, to me it looks like they want to (a) start sell^H^H^H^Hrenting their "secure" music while (b) tying the use of that music to increasing hardware sales (of MagicGate Memory Sticks) and then (c) use scary language and possibly locking up their hardware specs (Warning! Wild speculation!) to prevent the unsaavy from playing "non-secure" music.

Again, just wild speculation there.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[Keith Russell]

IIRC, Sony never sold a "Network" or "Memory Stick" Walkman that directly supported MP3 or non-DRM sticks. They all convert MP3s to ATRAC3 before uploading.

Interesting note: The Network Walkman is the only Memory Stick device that forces DRM. Clies will play MP3 or ATRAC3. VAIOs with built-in stick readers typically support MagicGate, but add-on readers (USB, PC Card, or floppy) don't. However, Memory Sticks are removable drives to the OS, so you just have to mount, navigate to PALM/PROGRAMS/MSAUDIO/, and tune in.

Sony is attempt to force me to accept digital rights/wrongs that I don't won't. When will the companies remember--"the customer is always right"?

You remind them every time you vote with your wallet. Instead of buying an NW-MS9, buy a Nomad. Or an Archos Jukebox. Or an iPod, if you're in that 5% of the market enclosed in the JRDF. Let them know that, given a choice, consumers will choose the path of most convenience. (See also: Circuit City DiVX vs. DVD) Maybe if everybody imposed DRM as vigorously as Sony, the Network Walkman would be competitive. As it stands now, their only customers are members of Hillary Rosen's immediate family.

Impressive

[image]

From the site:

Enhanced IR can reach AV products several feet away

So can my arm.

Re:Might Win Me Back

[mliu]

I have a Clie 760, the Japanese version of the 750. It works great. The high res makes all the difference in the world. There's a reason after the Clie 700 was released in Japan it stayed on the #1 best selling Palm OS spot ever since (maybe not anymore now though). After you use hi-res you just can't go back anymore. The standard 160x160 screens just look like pure crap. Especially here, with the Japanese fonts with the extremely intricate details, on the 160x160 displays I would call that borderline useable, just barely legible. 320x320 produces a beautiful smooth chinese character. Add in using an ebook reader like Wordsmith that can do ClearType (the LCD font smoothing technology) and they really look completely smooth to me, no jaggies at all. So if the reason that you stopped using Palms was because of the bad screen resolutions, I urge you to drop by your local electronics retailer and take a look at the new Clies on display and see what you think.

PS the Clie 415 is an exception to this. It is B&W and has a hi-res 320x320 screen, but is completely illegible due to bad contrast. Don't use that as an example.

Re:nice...

[bpowell423]

USB Cradle $50 bucks
AC Adapter $30 bucks
Stylus 3 Pack $15 bucks
Doesn't seem too bad...

Also, only compatible with Sony software? It runs the PalmOS, which means it's compatible with the largest selection of software available for any PDA.

Or maybe you were just trolling...

Re:I don't get it

[bpowell423]

Couple of things...

First, you're right about the springboard slot, in a way. There are lots of modules available for it, then again they're a little pricey. On the other hand, Sony has a camera is supposedly will have a GPS module soon, for the memory stick slot.

Okay, so what really makes this thing tempting? 320x320 color screen. Compare that to 160x160 for the Visor Prism or the color Palms. Throw in Documents-to-Go, which is included with the Sony. It'll cost you $70 at PalmGear. Throw in an enhanced IR port, which I take it would compare to the Handspring OmniRemote module ($60 from Handspring). So right there is $130 in add-ons that are included with the Clie, already making it a better deal than the Prism.

Also, looks like the best price for a SpringBoard 16MB memory card is about $80. For that you can get a 64MB memory stick.

One last thing: Click on the product tour for the Clie. First pic is a side shot of the Clie. Yep, it's thin.

Now, I'm not necessarily sold on this Clie. I'm currently the proud owner of a Visor Deluxe, which I've had for a couple of years now. But it cost me $300 originally, so $400 for 4x the resolution, plus color, plus style, plus whatever else seems to me to be right on the money.

Now, I have a birthday coming up... I wonder if I can convince my wife how much I NEED a new PDA...

Why Sony, why Palm?

[dzym]

Get one of these babies instead. There's ActiveSync type software for Linux, and if you tire of PocketPC 2002 OS, you can always put Linux on it.

For $430 (after rebate) you get 240x320, 96MB of storage, 206MHz StrongARM processor, expansion pack capability including "compactflash" and PCMCIA cards, infrared capability, USB, and it plays whatever audio Windows Media Player will take, up to and including MP3.

The question is, why Palm?

Re:nice...

[Keith Russell]

Or maybe you were just trolling...

We have a winner. Either that, or Slashdot need a new moderation option: Misinformed.

Right off the bat, Sluggie is quoting specs from the wrong model. He's looking at the N760, not the T615.

The T615 doesn't have a headphone jack at all. It uses an external MP3 decoder that connects to the hotsync port. The external decoder, and N700's built-in audio, use standard headphones.

bpowell423's points are correct. Sony's prices for cradles, AC adapters, etc. are comparable to others. And PalmOS is PalmOS.

Sluggie's right about expansion, though. For simple memory expansion, I don't think there's a practical difference between Memory Stick and MMC/SD. Step outside the handheld space, and support for either format is equally thin. But I really wish Sony would add Compact Flash support. There's a sled for the T-series in Japan, but it's not available in the States. (If you follow the link, it's the PEGA-CF60. Babelfish helps, but with Japanese, it's as, um, entertaining as it is useful.)

Sony Handheld Boycott

[BonziDogFace]

I recently purchased a Palm m505. While I really like Sony's features and such I really don't like Sony's actions as part of the big 5 entertainment group. They are a strong advocate of the DMCA and seem to be on the forefront of actions to restrict a consumers ability to use their personal property. As such I have made a decision to avoid their products.

finally, a no-BS handheld

[xeno]

I wholeheartedly agree, and I put my money where my mouth is. I bought the 330 this christmas, and don't have a single regret. The screen is excellent (I only see scaling artifacts in one 3rd party app), the memory flexibility is nice, the voice recorder almost crosses over from nifty to useful, and the form factor allows me to use the doodads I've invested in (such as the keyboard, modem, extra cradles, palmpix camera, etc).

I spent a long time looking for an upgrade from my Workpad 20x (Palm III), and looked long and hard at the Sony PalmOS handhelds. But when the rubber hit the road, I came to some comparatively negative conclusions about the Sony:

• color is nice but not really useful to any app I use (except maybe the PalmPix, which is just a toy)
• the form factor/size isn't so much better as to justify buying a new keyboard & cradles
• I'll buy into that proprietary MemoryStick(TM) crap when they pry my CF+ and MMC cards from my cold dead handheld.

OTOH, the 330 gave me some killer advantages:

• Screen rotation combined with high-resolution text and spreadsheet apps is a compelling combination. Being able to reference items from large collections of synchronized information is why I carry this thing around. Seeing more of it at once (esp in landscape mode) is better. I'm anxiously awaiting the update to Brainforest, which Aportis says (as of last week) is in the queue behind a scalable/rotatable version of AportisDoc.
• I can use memory expansion (MMC), network connectivity (CF), and a keyboard (serial) all at once. And I can plug in the power at the same time. It's not a laptop-killer, but then again, everything I've seen pitched as a laptop-killer is so bulky as to become what it's supposed to kill. This is as close as you can get and still shove the whole mess of system and accessories into a coat pocket.
• The buttons are concave. I wouldn't have believed the difference this makes, but after using a Workpad for almost 3 years, the buttons on the 330 are a godsend. It really does make a huge difference in ease of use if you can just poke a button with the stylus and keep writing, rather than shifting your hand to finger it, then going back to the pen. These guys were being thoughtful in the design.
• The LiIon battery is a very nice touch, balanced by the practical ability to pop in some AAA's if you don't have the recharger with you.

Overall, I just found the 330 a better combination of practical features than any other option.
That's my $0.02
-Jon