New Clie Handhelds from Sony

A Commentor writes: "Sony has release two new handhelds including a super slim high-res color model, which has 16M and "AV Remote Control feature". It is also covered at news.com." Looks like Sony will continue to hold the coolest Palm clone crown.

Comments

Remote Control

[Nick Number]

There's already shareware out there that allows you to use a Palm's IR port as a remote control. I only get a range of about 10 feet with my Visor Deluxe though. Hopefully these new ones will work from across the room.

Re:Remote Control

[Sc00ter]

the IR for data transfer and the IR for controlling your TV are in different parts of the spectrum, that's why you Visor and most Palms for that matter don't do a good job at controlling your TV. You can get an IR transmitter for a Visor that fits into the springboard slot that's in the correct part of the spectrum.

Re:Remote Control

[Nick Number]

the IR for data transfer and the IR for controlling your TV are in different parts of the spectrum, that's why you Visor and most Palms for that matter don't do a good job at controlling your TV. You can get an IR transmitter for a Visor that fits into the springboard slot that's in the correct part of the spectrum.

True, but 60 bucks is a little steep when you can get a universal remote for around 10 at Radio Shack.

Now what these things would really be good for is cheating at laser tag. Too bad it's gone out of fashion.

HandEra!!!

[Ender_Stonebender]

Sorry, but in my book, the HandEra 330 takes the crown for coolest Palm-compatible PDA. 240X320 screen, virtual Graffiti area. All it's missing is color.

Ender

Re:HandEra!!!

[Gambit Thirty-Two]

I know how you feel. When i was tossing around ideas on what to upgrade to, i was jumping between the s320 clie and a handera 330. The old palm IIIe was a bit outdated, and i needed more than 2megs of space.

Handera's virtual graffiti was what almost won me over. That is DAMNED impressive, and i can say that in all the achievements that these new models have been coming out with, the retractable gf area is the most appealing.

I decided to go with the S320 though. The memory stick was very appealing to me, and with sony's promises for a memorystick camera and gps, i decided it was worth the investment. however, now those are only going to be available for the 600/700 models, i feel i may have made the wrong choice. too late now.

I wanted to get a handheld that was different than the typical palms and handsprings. To me, 2001 showed no vast improvements to the handhelds of those two product lines. More memory, and better color screens. Whoopie. Palm found it necessary to flood the market with very similar handhelds... m100, m105, m125, m500... only big difference is the memory and the availability of a memory slot. There was no single new improvement that REALLY made it worth upgrading this past year.

For the most part, unless you drop or sit on your handheld, theres no real need to upgrade. PalmOS based systems do the same stuff. OS changes arent significant enough to make it worth buying a handheld just for the upgrade. If you've got a memory expansion slot, then theres virtually no reason to upgrade. Need more memory? pop in a bigger memorystick or compact flash and sell the old one on ebay. There are numerous applications now that let you run your apps right off these expansion cards, so thats not even a drawback now.

I honestly feel that palm has to slow down and focus more on what they're putitng into their products to make them stand out and be different. Achievements that set them apart from the other PalmOS models, and from their own previous product line. Just adding more memory is not enough for me to dump my current unit and upgrade.

Re:HandEra!!!

[Chelloveck]

When I went looking for a new Palm last summer, I looked long and hard at both the Handera 330 and the Sony 710. The virtual Grafitti area is sweet; I wish other manufacturers would come out with it. But two things drew me to buy the Sony instead.

1. The Handera's 240-pixel width isn't an integer multiple of the standard 160-pixel width. To view standard low-res Palm apps in full-screen mode means the machine must scale by 1.5. In some of my tests, this caused bitmaps to look really bad. The Sony's 320-pixel width is exactly double the standard. While doubling the pixels makes things look blocky, they still look better than a stock color Palm or Visor.
2. The Sony's screen had much better contrast in all lighting conditions. I wanted a hi-res screen specifically so I could read books. Sony's screen wins, no question.

The Memory Stick format blows. I really wish Sony would adopt something the rest of the world agreed with. But frankly, the 8MB stick included with the 710 is more than enough for me. I just treat it an extra non-removable 8MB of storage anyway, so it doesn't really matter that it's incompatible with everything else I own. For my uses (books, once again; I don't care about MP3s) the stick is fine.

Re:HandEra!!!

[pbiba]

You can listen to MP3s and use the other apps at the same time! Go into the audio player and set options/preferences to background play.

Re:HandEra!!!

[abischof]

Actually, FWIW, ScreenWrite v2 uses "Inkverse Extensions" instead of HackMaster.

Sony to loose the crown?

[toupsie]

Looks like Sony will continue to hold the coolest Palm clone crown

Though I wish the "iWalk" wasn't a fake, I got a note in my e-mail from Palm that they are releasing some whiz bang, got to buy it, new Palm Pilot (oops cant call it that anymore). But, of course, they won't tell me what it is and I haven't found a Palm rumor site like the Mac guys have. Given that most of the Palms released after the Palm III sucked, I am really hoping Palm does something cool. I haven't bought a new PDA since 1999. There has been nothing on the market to excite me since.

Note to Apple: BRING BACK THE NEWTON!!!

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[kisrael]

There is palminfocenter.com for Palm rumors, but I haven't noticed anything about this teaser campaign there.

Someone else in this thread point out that the palm site has a "Shhh" link on their frontpage. Which is kind of funny, because when you click it, it has not just a add me to mailing list link but a set of "Spread the news." blanks, to enter your friends' email and first names. So they're not being as secretive about it as their e-mail teaser tried to imply.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[TheGreenLantern]

Common opinion seems to be the new Palm is going to be the i705, which was rumor-mongered here when the FCC let the cat out of the bag a few months early.

Oh, and Palminfocenter is probably the best place to go for Palm-related news and rumors.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[aussersterne]

Note to Apple: BRING BACK THE NEWTON!!!

No doubt. I'm still using my Newton 2100. I recently bought two more on eBay as a "just in case it breaks" measure.

The Newton display's color limitation (no color, only 16 shades of grey) sucks, but the 480x360 resolution of the Newton 2100 is unlike anything else ever in the PDA world. The StrongARM processor at 162.0 MHz is still very snappy and compares well with other PDAs currently on the market. I have 24MB memory and a 3Com PCMCIA ethernet card in the unit and use it to browse the Web, e-mail, read news, etc. And the NewtonOS operating system and Rosetta handwriting engine kick ass--far beyond anything else on the market right now. Far beyond. Hard to believe this thing has a manufacture date of 1997.

I owned a Palm III, a Palm V, a Vadem Clio and a Cassiopeia E-11 (two PDAs from each of the other families). Since owning these I also have played with friends' color iPaqs and a HandEra 330 that I was given on loan for a semester earlier this year.

So far, I haven't seen anything to want to make me trade in my Newtons. Now if only Apple would get their head out of their ass and re-release Newton OS, in a new device with a 480x320 color display with two CF slots down the side and a thickness of 0.5 inches, I'd be willing to pay $1000+ for it.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[Mike@AP]

I really hope Palm does do something good, and soon. There hasn't been a reason to buy a Palm produced device since the original Palm V and Palm VII. Most of the innovation on the platform has come from Handspring and Sony, while Palm has sat relatively still (and don't give me that m500 stuff...that was a complete stopgap upgrade just so they could have product in the pipleline).

And as for Apple, I tend to doubt it. Makes no sense for them to get into PDAs when Palm, Handspring, Microsoft and Sony are all spending millions and slugging it out -- unless Apple can really, REALLY add value to a PDA device, like it did with music players via the iPod. And I have no idea how Apple would do that.

Unless Jobs & Co. bought Palm...hmmm... :)

That's the market for the Philips Pronto gone.

[armb]

I can't see anyone buying just a remote for more than half the price of a PDA with AV remote functionality built in. Mind you I couldn't see anyone paying that much for a remote in the first place and people did.

Re:That's the market for the Philips Pronto gone.

[mccalli]

I can't see anyone buying just a remote for more than half the price of a PDA with AV remote functionality built in.

Well, if more than one person lived in the house they'd either all need a PDA, or you'd need to leave one of these constantly in the home. Otherwise, as soon as you took your PDA out of the house everyone would be scrabbling around for the original remotes again.

If you're going to leave one constantly in the house just for use as a remote, then you may as well get the Pronto for half the price.

Cheers,
Ian

New Clie over Palm m505

[Ween]

If I had my time to go over, I would have purchased a Sony Clie instead of my Palm m505. These new ones with memory stick (you can buy it at walmart and its cheap, unlike the m505 cards) and the oh so impressive audio out feature make this a must have. Palm should pay attention before their market share on devices dwindles more.

Coolest Palm clone?

[Cutriss]

It's got great color, and it plays MP3s, but I hesitate to say that it's the coolest. I'm absolutely in love with my HandEra 330. This sucker has support for SD memory as well as CF+, meaning that it supports Ethernet connectivity, 802.11b, GSM cell modems, etc. etc., as well as huge honkin' memory cards and the Microdrive. I can run a shell on my HandEra to my uni's Unix server. Can yours do that?

Mine also has a high-resolution screen which makes many programs easier to use since they can fit more data on the screen. It also has a Lithium-Ion rechargeable battery pack available, it comes with a built-in microphone and voice-recording software (Which can record straight to SD or CF if you want), it has that cool jog-dial button so that you can scroll text or start apps with it...and it has a virtual Graffiti area, so that I can reclaim the space it uses if I'm reading e-mail or PDFs. Also, using CardPro, you can install Palm apps directly from SD or CF without syncing. You could even get an FTP app or a web browser and download apps and install them that way.

If color is your thing, HandEra's already got a color model slated for release in a few months. But the flexibility and capability of my unit *far* outweighs the benefits of a measly MP3 player.

Re:Coolest Palm clone?

[BlueStreak]

I too have a Handera; all the points above are very true.

What is particularily interesting about the Handera is the fact that it has the CompactFlash and SD ports, thereby making it available for use with all the pheripherals that are currently available or that will come out soon. It's terribly useful for when you have a memory card for data and a pheripheral (you can use them both at the same time).

Also, the Handera has kept with the Palm III form factor so a lot of add-ons (especially older ones, like old hard cases) fit perfectly.

These two main features of the Handera make it perfect for a work environment; companies can buy add-ons for this device without having to buy more specialized devices (i.e. some of the Palm OS powered devices from Symbol). It ends up being cheap and very powerful.

An example: my father owns a septic & toilet rental business. With a Handera I've connected to his database of customers & work orders (keeping all his clients on the memory card), I can add a GPS unit to keep track of the location of his toilets (especially useful when they are way out in the woods), a bar-code scanner can be used to keep track of inventory and quickly identify toilets when he's servicing them. He can also use one of the many Palm III keyboards to enter data on the road.

I've heard that one of the more popular uses of Handera devices are in warehouses with 802.11 networks & barcode scanners to manage inventory.

Sony PDAs are great but they are consumer oriented. BTW, the Handera has a 240x320 resolution (very crisp).

With Included Content "Protection"

[Eagle7]

From the product info page for the one that play's music:

A standard 8 MB Memory Stick® media is included with your CLIÉ? PEG-N760C handheld. This is adequate for storing a few, non-secure, music tracks at a time. To carry more than a few tracks at once, or to download and play secure music (ATRAC3? audio content) requires a larger MagicGate? Memory Stick® media (sold separately).

It seems that it will play all the "insecure" MP3s you throw at it - but I love the wording of this. In-secure music vs. Secure music - as if the insecure music will somehow send out emails on the device to your boss or something.

Bravo to Sony for creating a neat product... but a slap on the wrist for attempting to brainwash the consumer into shooting him/herself in the foot.

Better the real or another totally different thing

[mirko]

I'm actually a little afraid of the Sony thing as it imho doesn't seem as easy to integrate under linux or others environments as the original thing (for example, I don't like this memory stick thing that looks it's here to force me to adopt a newer kind of yet unrecognized device under non-proprietary envts... The Sony spec also read "windows" and neither linux nor even MacOS[9X]).

One, month ago, Palm announced some forthcoming evolution (multitasking,e tc.) to their OS which seems quite promising since they actually bought Be...

I may wait a little and either buy some of these new devices or something totally different, yet exciting but pricier.

Doh!

[conan_albrecht]

Great. Anyone want to buy my Clie 760 which I just purchased for $100 more?!?

Re:Doh!

[Chelloveck]

If you find a buyer, ask if they have a friend who wants to buy my 710 (with 4.0 upgrade).

My only complaint with the new models is that they replaced the up/down buttons with a dinky little paddle thing. Not too bad for "serious" applications (since I use the jog dial more than the buttons), but it blows chunks for games.

Re:Better the real or another totally different th

[ZZamboni]

I have a Clie N710C, and I use it both with a Mac (MarkSpace sells the software for doing this) and Linux (kernels since around version 2.4.13 have worked OK with it, maybe even earlier). Sony does not officially support anything other than Windows, but that doesn't mean it does not work :-)

The MarkSpace product allows mounting the memory stick under MacOS, and on Linux, it can be mounted as a usb-storage device, it is formatted as a VFAT file system.

Weird Memory Stick stuff

[jvmatthe]

From the page on the N760C:

A standard 8 MB Memory Stick® media is included with your CLIÉ(TM) PEG-N760C handheld. This is adequate for storing a few, non-secure, music tracks at a time. To carry more than a few tracks at once, or to download and play secure music (ATRAC3(TM) audio content) requires a larger MagicGate(TM) Memory Stick® media (sold separately).

This makes me wonder a couple of things.

• With language like "non-secure", which probably sounds to the uninitiated like something bad, how serious is Sony about pushing secure content? After all, they do own the rights to a ton of music. Wording like this makes me think they're planning to lock it all up and make the general public think they're doing the right thing when they rent their "secure" music from Sony.
  
• Since they've clearly got "secure music" in mind, will we see a day when their stock MP3 player won't play "non-secure" music? If they did so, how open is the Sony hardware to creating third party players that would play "non-secure" music.
  

I mean, to me it looks like they want to (a) start sell^H^H^H^Hrenting their "secure" music while (b) tying the use of that music to increasing hardware sales (of MagicGate Memory Sticks) and then (c) use scary language and possibly locking up their hardware specs (Warning! Wild speculation!) to prevent the unsaavy from playing "non-secure" music.

Again, just wild speculation there.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[snowbike]

will we see a day when their stock MP3 player won't play "non-secure" music?

I saw the day about two months ago, and it really bummed me out. I hope someone can correct me, but the very attractive (except for the Magic Gate) MP3 player by Sony (the NW-MS9) requires the magic gate memory stick and software which only works in Windows (possibly Mac OS?). I have the Sony Vaio Picture book with a memory stick slot, and the Sony PC-3 camera which uses the memory sticks. I love the memory sticks, they work fine under Linux. And I would love to be able to just slap mp3s on the memory stick and throw them in the Sony NW-MS9--it is exactly what I want in an MP3 player. No stupid cables to find/carry around. Tiny, tiny, tiny.

If anyone can (truthfully..) tell me that the NW-MS9 will play mp3s on a non-magic gate memory stick, I'd order one today.

But alas, the day has come, Sony is attempt to force me to accept digital rights/wrongs that I don't won't. When will the companies remember--"the customer is always right"?

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[Keith Russell]

IIRC, Sony never sold a "Network" or "Memory Stick" Walkman that directly supported MP3 or non-DRM sticks. They all convert MP3s to ATRAC3 before uploading.

Interesting note: The Network Walkman is the only Memory Stick device that forces DRM. Clies will play MP3 or ATRAC3. VAIOs with built-in stick readers typically support MagicGate, but add-on readers (USB, PC Card, or floppy) don't. However, Memory Sticks are removable drives to the OS, so you just have to mount, navigate to PALM/PROGRAMS/MSAUDIO/, and tune in.

Sony is attempt to force me to accept digital rights/wrongs that I don't won't. When will the companies remember--"the customer is always right"?

You remind them every time you vote with your wallet. Instead of buying an NW-MS9, buy a Nomad. Or an Archos Jukebox. Or an iPod, if you're in that 5% of the market enclosed in the JRDF. Let them know that, given a choice, consumers will choose the path of most convenience. (See also: Circuit City DiVX vs. DVD) Maybe if everybody imposed DRM as vigorously as Sony, the Network Walkman would be competitive. As it stands now, their only customers are members of Hillary Rosen's immediate family.

I don't get it

[Lxy]

So, this is the latest and greatest... why? $400 seems like a nice price for a color PalmOS based PDA with 16 MB, considering the only thing similar is the Visor Prism for around $300. So it's got a remote control feature. So does my Visor Deluxe. It's got Omniremote, a pretty sweet shareware remote app (www.palmgear.com). I suppose I could get audio addons and software for it, but how many MP3s can you really store in the 16 MB Sony anyway? Cool product, yes, but all this talk about blowing Palm and Handspring off the market... not a chance. Where's the expenasion slot? Can I pop a Magellan GPS unit onto it? Can I get a V.90 modem for it?

IMHO the Handsprings beat the crap out of every portable on the market because of the Springboard slot. Sure, you have to pay $$ for those expansions, but at least they're available.

One last rant: If Sony is bragging about how thin they are, why do they only show them from the front? :-)

Re:I don't get it

[bpowell423]

Couple of things...

First, you're right about the springboard slot, in a way. There are lots of modules available for it, then again they're a little pricey. On the other hand, Sony has a camera is supposedly will have a GPS module soon, for the memory stick slot.

Okay, so what really makes this thing tempting? 320x320 color screen. Compare that to 160x160 for the Visor Prism or the color Palms. Throw in Documents-to-Go, which is included with the Sony. It'll cost you $70 at PalmGear. Throw in an enhanced IR port, which I take it would compare to the Handspring OmniRemote module ($60 from Handspring). So right there is $130 in add-ons that are included with the Clie, already making it a better deal than the Prism.

Also, looks like the best price for a SpringBoard 16MB memory card is about $80. For that you can get a 64MB memory stick.

One last thing: Click on the product tour for the Clie. First pic is a side shot of the Clie. Yep, it's thin.

Now, I'm not necessarily sold on this Clie. I'm currently the proud owner of a Visor Deluxe, which I've had for a couple of years now. But it cost me $300 originally, so $400 for 4x the resolution, plus color, plus style, plus whatever else seems to me to be right on the money.

Now, I have a birthday coming up... I wonder if I can convince my wife how much I NEED a new PDA...

Re:I don't get it

[cornflux]

$80 is not accurate for a 64mb memory stick. you should be able to get 128mb for that.

in fact, if you're in the market for a memory stick, you can get a 128mb for $61 at buy.com and there's a $15 rebate.

Re:I don't get it

[n-baxley]

First pic is a side shot of the Clie. Yep, it's thin.

I know this was the last thing you mentioned, but it's still 1/2 an inch. The Palm IIIs were about .7" Were are you sticking this thing that you need the extra .2"? Maybe I don't want to know.

Impressive

[image]

From the site:

Enhanced IR can reach AV products several feet away

So can my arm.

Re:Impressive

[jea6]

Through the aid of an enhanced built-in infrared (IR) port and CLIÉ Remote Commander software, users can transform the CLIÉ PEG-T615C model into a universal remote controller to control home entertainment components from up to 15 feet away.

Re:Might Win Me Back

[mliu]

I have a Clie 760, the Japanese version of the 750. It works great. The high res makes all the difference in the world. There's a reason after the Clie 700 was released in Japan it stayed on the #1 best selling Palm OS spot ever since (maybe not anymore now though). After you use hi-res you just can't go back anymore. The standard 160x160 screens just look like pure crap. Especially here, with the Japanese fonts with the extremely intricate details, on the 160x160 displays I would call that borderline useable, just barely legible. 320x320 produces a beautiful smooth chinese character. Add in using an ebook reader like Wordsmith that can do ClearType (the LCD font smoothing technology) and they really look completely smooth to me, no jaggies at all. So if the reason that you stopped using Palms was because of the bad screen resolutions, I urge you to drop by your local electronics retailer and take a look at the new Clies on display and see what you think.

PS the Clie 415 is an exception to this. It is B&W and has a hi-res 320x320 screen, but is completely illegible due to bad contrast. Don't use that as an example.

Re:nice...

[bpowell423]

USB Cradle $50 bucks
AC Adapter $30 bucks
Stylus 3 Pack $15 bucks
Doesn't seem too bad...

Also, only compatible with Sony software? It runs the PalmOS, which means it's compatible with the largest selection of software available for any PDA.

Or maybe you were just trolling...

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[Zocalo]

It's the Memory Stick that's turning me off Sony as well, although the two high-res colour models they now have are winning me over. This new model is just what I would want from a PDA with current tech levels as I don't need multimedia stuff, just an organizer that I can sync with my desktops/laptops and run a few other tools on to help with my job.

What I'm hoping for is that Palm's "community development" method will pay off and they will fold all the neat new Sony stuff, especially the screen, back into the general product line in time for the 515 launch around March. If not, then I'll probably end up getting the Clié and living with the semi-proprietary memory stick.

Re:nice...

[mliu]

Ouch, +4 informative for this?

"Only compatible with Sony headphones, Sony memory stick, Sony software etc etc."

Funny, my Clie 760 right now has a pair of generic no name headphones attached (didn't like the clip ons that came with it), has a Sandisk memory stick inserted, and is running a myriad of programs designed by 3rd parties. Oh, and don't forget my 3rd party stylus......

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[swv3752]

Erm... no. The best thing about it is how durable it is. If you drop it and step on it, you are not going to break it, try that with some other flash.

Re:Sony: the next Microsoft?

[aussersterne]

Sony was Microsoft before Microsoft was. People were talking about Sony being in pretty much every market even before the launch of Windows 95.

Don't you remember those "Fuck Sony" shirts from the early '90s? Or am I getting even older?

Re:The thinnest palm powered color handheld?

[mliu]

As I recall in millimeters, the Clie wins in thickness over the M505 by a slim margin, maybe by a millimeter or three. Pretty insignificant, and basically invisible to the naked eye. But I guess they are being truthful even through their marketing speak........

Why Sony, why Palm?

[dzym]

Get one of these babies instead. There's ActiveSync type software for Linux, and if you tire of PocketPC 2002 OS, you can always put Linux on it.

For $430 (after rebate) you get 240x320, 96MB of storage, 206MHz StrongARM processor, expansion pack capability including "compactflash" and PCMCIA cards, infrared capability, USB, and it plays whatever audio Windows Media Player will take, up to and including MP3.

The question is, why Palm?

What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation?

[acceleriter]

A GPL violation was brought to the community's attention here. Has Sony made the source available to those who downloaded the emulator without redistribution restriction, in accordance with the GPL? Or did we just let them get away with that little shenanigan and then advertise for them on the front page?

It would seem particularly fitting that a company so invested in protecting it's intellectual "property" (q.v. the "Churchill" speech about blocking P2P music sharing, harassment of Aibo fan sites, SDMI memory sticks) shoud be hoisted on its own petard.

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[Zocalo]

Looking down that list, there is a large number of companies that have little or no connection with PCs. There are lot's of automotive manufacturers of all things, and other industries, and I'm sure that some of them probably refine the silicon that others turn into wafers that others... Sony might be citing 218 companies, but I doubt the number of consumer facing ones is into three digits.

It's not that I have anything against MemoryStick as such, it's just that other similar technologies are far more interoperable with a broader choice of devices, and surely "durability" is a secondary goal to "interoperability". It's an old chestnut, but you have to love standards; there are so many to chose from. :(

Re:nice...

[ptomblin]

Only compatible with Sony headphones

Where do you get that from? I have a Clie PEG-N760C and at work I have a regular $9 Radio Shack ear buds that I use with it. The headphones that come with it are "better" (for certain values of better - I don't like them much) because they have a little "stick" about half way along the cord with volume, stop/pause/start and skip forward/back controls on it. I guess that's for when you have the thing in your pocket and you don't want to fish it out to control the music, but I don't tend to use that feature. Maybe when I buy a bigger memory stick.

By the way, it runs most Palm OS software just fine - you don't have to run "only Sony software". The Clie CD-Rom includes the USB drivers for the USB cradle and a slightly modified version of the familiar Palm Desktop.

By the way, it syncs just fine using coldsync and Linux kernel 2.4.17. I can even mount the memory stick as a vfat file system to delete the old mp3s and put new ones on.

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[swv3752]

Apparently it is corrected as there is now support for clies in the latest linux kernel.

Re:nice...

[Keith Russell]

Or maybe you were just trolling...

We have a winner. Either that, or Slashdot need a new moderation option: Misinformed.

Right off the bat, Sluggie is quoting specs from the wrong model. He's looking at the N760, not the T615.

The T615 doesn't have a headphone jack at all. It uses an external MP3 decoder that connects to the hotsync port. The external decoder, and N700's built-in audio, use standard headphones.

bpowell423's points are correct. Sony's prices for cradles, AC adapters, etc. are comparable to others. And PalmOS is PalmOS.

Sluggie's right about expansion, though. For simple memory expansion, I don't think there's a practical difference between Memory Stick and MMC/SD. Step outside the handheld space, and support for either format is equally thin. But I really wish Sony would add Compact Flash support. There's a sled for the T-series in Japan, but it's not available in the States. (If you follow the link, it's the PEGA-CF60. Babelfish helps, but with Japanese, it's as, um, entertaining as it is useful.)

Re:that's your opinion

[TurkishGeek]

What exactly is the "sheik styling" you are talking about? Perhaps they are targeting the affluent Saudi Arabian market, but I doubt there is a high demand for PDA's in that part of the world.

Is this "sheik style" related to "chic styling" in any way?

I've played with both

[jbf]

I've had a 3870 for about a week. I use a Vx as my regular PDA. The 3870 is kinda neat, with its color screen, but it's too bulky to carry everywhere.

I could see using a 3870 as a laptop replacement with an 802.11 card. As a PDA with WinCE, its calendar sucks compared to DateBk4, it doesn't have travel management software like TravelTracker, the lack of something like MidCapsHack on the block recognizer makes it somewhat less useful, things run super-slow, and there's no free SSH client. Oh yeah, and the dev environment is a pain in the tush.

The Linux support for the 3870 is coming slowly, but it's not going to replace my datebook. There isn't a decent calendaring program yet for iPaq linux, and that's a necessary prerequisite to being a PDA. Not to mention the total lack of an address book. And don't get me started on power management issues...

Synce doesn't work yet, either.

Obviously, there's a reason I have an iPaq, but it sure as heck isn't because I think it's a PDA. If I lost my Vx, I'd get a PalmOS box, even though switching over to the iPaq would be free.

Sony Handheld Boycott

[BonziDogFace]

I recently purchased a Palm m505. While I really like Sony's features and such I really don't like Sony's actions as part of the big 5 entertainment group. They are a strong advocate of the DMCA and seem to be on the forefront of actions to restrict a consumers ability to use their personal property. As such I have made a decision to avoid their products.

Re:Better the real or another totally different th

[conan_albrecht]

I've got a sony clie and I use Linux 100%. JPilot works perfectly with Palms (including Sony). The USB interface doesn't work, but there are two other options:

1. I use the IR port to my laptop for syncing. A little slower, but it works on the road and I don't have to take the cradle.

2. I also ordered a serial port cable for it from a third-party company in Hong Kong. I don't remember the company name, but I found it on an old post of slashdot 6 months ago or so.

The memory stick, while I wish they had used more standard cards, is not that bad. I have the sony PCMCIA card reader for memory sticks, and Linux (Mandrake) recognizes it perfectly as /dev/hdc. It's just a VFAT filesystem that can be mounted like anything else. No drivers or installs, I just slid it in and it was recognized as a removable hard drive.

760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[jmorse]

The high-end model with an MP3 player has DRM "features"...the MP3 software won't simply play MP3s off a standard memory stick. You have to buy their "copy-protected" memory stick and use their software to upload the songs....which limits your uploads to one computer and only 3 uploads per song. I bought one of these last month and am totally dissappointed. The screen res is great, but the MP3 player (the main reason I bought this model) is totally worthless. It's as if Sony wants to implement pay-per-play for music you already own.

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[ptomblin]

the MP3 software won't simply play MP3s off a standard memory stick

Bullshit. I'm playing The Pogues "Sunnyside of the Street" off the 8mb unprotected memory stick that came with it as I type this. I stuck the Clie in the cradle, ran MS-Import, mounted it in Linux (love that usb-device support), copied 3 mp3 files on, and then went into the built-in MP3 player and they all played fine.

The mp3 software won't play "protected" mp3s that you get from Sony's web site without the protected memory stick, but who the hell would want to do that?

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[ptomblin]

As an addendum to the above, I'd like to mention that I've only use MP3s that I've ripped myself from CDs that I own (using Linux ripping tools). I have some MP3s from a CD that I bought from mp3.com, but I haven't tried them to see if they have DRM "features", but I doubt it.

I certainly haven't tried any mp3s from Sony or other pay-per-play sites that would have DRM, nor have I tried MP3s from Napster or Kazaa or other music sharing services, nor do I intend to.

Coz you are not on bleeding edge....

[2Bits]

There's no way you can convince a geek to get an old model toy, dude. We are geek, and there's no way we leave ourself behind. We NEED the latest model, at all cost. How are you supposed to show your geekiness if you don't have the latest model?

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[i0lanthe]

I went to their third-party developers page one more time to check it out. It still says "source code will be available with the final version". (What's wrong with this picture...) There are two download links labelled Emulator ("PEG-T600C/T400/T415" and "PEG-S and PEG-N Series") and one download link labelled Source ("PEG-S and PEG-N Series"). This sounds to me like they have gotten, at most, half of a clue.

Not that I'm likely to develop for their platform when they require a fax number, which I don't have, to complete the handshake protocol for the ROM download contract, which last time I looked at it (months ago) didn't look like anything I wanted to sign anyway. (Not that I objected to the terms, but that I couldn't parse the terms. I can deal with legalese or with foreign-instruction-manual English but please not both at once.)

mp3s on the clie -- how?

[Erich]

Does the clie have a built-in DSP or does it send data out to that funky headphone thing? Or do they decode mp3s on their dragonball (or do they use another microprocessor)? I don't understand how it works.

If they have an extra DSP on there, if you can program it, it might be possible to support other audio formats (such as ogg vorbis).

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[cdipierr]

You can get 5gb PCMCIA hard drives from Toshiba that will plug into an iPaq (assuming you have the PCMCIA adapter). It makes the device extremely bulky for a PDA, but if you need the storage, it's there.

finally, a no-BS handheld

[xeno]

I wholeheartedly agree, and I put my money where my mouth is. I bought the 330 this christmas, and don't have a single regret. The screen is excellent (I only see scaling artifacts in one 3rd party app), the memory flexibility is nice, the voice recorder almost crosses over from nifty to useful, and the form factor allows me to use the doodads I've invested in (such as the keyboard, modem, extra cradles, palmpix camera, etc).

I spent a long time looking for an upgrade from my Workpad 20x (Palm III), and looked long and hard at the Sony PalmOS handhelds. But when the rubber hit the road, I came to some comparatively negative conclusions about the Sony:

• color is nice but not really useful to any app I use (except maybe the PalmPix, which is just a toy)
• the form factor/size isn't so much better as to justify buying a new keyboard & cradles
• I'll buy into that proprietary MemoryStick(TM) crap when they pry my CF+ and MMC cards from my cold dead handheld.

OTOH, the 330 gave me some killer advantages:

• Screen rotation combined with high-resolution text and spreadsheet apps is a compelling combination. Being able to reference items from large collections of synchronized information is why I carry this thing around. Seeing more of it at once (esp in landscape mode) is better. I'm anxiously awaiting the update to Brainforest, which Aportis says (as of last week) is in the queue behind a scalable/rotatable version of AportisDoc.
• I can use memory expansion (MMC), network connectivity (CF), and a keyboard (serial) all at once. And I can plug in the power at the same time. It's not a laptop-killer, but then again, everything I've seen pitched as a laptop-killer is so bulky as to become what it's supposed to kill. This is as close as you can get and still shove the whole mess of system and accessories into a coat pocket.
• The buttons are concave. I wouldn't have believed the difference this makes, but after using a Workpad for almost 3 years, the buttons on the 330 are a godsend. It really does make a huge difference in ease of use if you can just poke a button with the stylus and keep writing, rather than shifting your hand to finger it, then going back to the pen. These guys were being thoughtful in the design.
• The LiIon battery is a very nice touch, balanced by the practical ability to pop in some AAA's if you don't have the recharger with you.

Overall, I just found the 330 a better combination of practical features than any other option.
That's my $0.02
-Jon

MemoryStick

[Kanasta]

does anyone know the difference btwn the blue MemoryStick and the 'MagicGate' MemoryStick?

I know the MagicGate costs more and the sales persons said MagicGate can be used to hold data files (what the hell is everyone storing on the blue ones if it's not data?). If the sales people can't explain the difference...

IR Port

[nick_davison]

Hopefully the enhanced IR actually means an enhanced IR port as opposed to just coming bundled with the software.

I own a Clie and love it for almost everything - particularly the style of a Palm (as opposed to the bugly Visors) and the more sensibly priced memory sticks - so I'm generally biased towards, not against, Clies. Even so, the Clie's IR port appears to be the worst implemented of all the variants. Running the existing remote software, you can only actually control stuff if you're facing it perfectly from a few (read less than 3-4) feet away. Unless they sort out the hardware, all the great software in the world won't make it worth using.

On the other hand, it is still amusing to record people's IR keyless car entries and screw with them.

It could be great but I hope you'll end up getting more than just higher resoultion and a branded version of a web download for that extra $90 (S320s are going for about $160 at the moment).

Gray, but cool

[fm6]

Oh yes, I want one. "Virtual graffiti area" is kind of a silly term, though. What the 330 does is give you a bigger screen, then use the extra screen area to draw a graffiti area you can hide. Very, very nice.

The only deficit is that it's a grayscale display -- and is that really a deficit? Face it, Palm-based products are successful because they're basic and simple. Silly to try to make them into multimedia devices. A color display does add a little to readability, but not enough to justify the extra cost and (more important) the shortened battery life.

sony bad, bad dmca, bad sony!

[motherhead]

over the last five years i have had a number of PalmOS devices, four Palms (Pilot, Pilot Pro, IIIC, VII) and a Handspring Visor Prism Deluxe (door prize at a tech conference). I like the PalmOS and can write in graphitti as quickly as i can english with pen and paper.

with that said i just picked up an HP Journada 568. Yes i feel traitorous and wrong. no i am probably not going to install embedded linux on it. this is why i bought it: blah blah memory, blah blah expandibility, blah blah resolution, blah blah handheld gaming (which is why the HP and not the iPaq)

this is my point: Sony is evil.
I will explain; i love the PalmOS and the sexiest version is probably the Clie, it stinks of quality and chicks dig it. but the fact is sony is only allowed to sell me DVD players and a Playstation2, Why: because they feel they have a right to dictate and mitigate what digital media i choose to store on my personal devices. they are a major backbone of the MPAA/RIAA mafia and they support that vile little storage device protocol that will "inhibit" consumers from duplicating copywritten materials. They were the company behind getting the DMCA forced through washington.

for these sins against humanity i can never bring myself to blowing coin on any media device that stores my personal data that they produce.(if you want to tell me how a PS2 is just such a device, blow me, i am not putting mp3s, oggs, and whatever else on my PS2)

too bad because i love sony consumer electronic devices. but no, politically they are the anti-christ.

Re:Better the real or another totally different th

[hacker]

I've got a sony clie and I use Linux 100%. JPilot works perfectly with Palms (including Sony). The USB interface doesn't work, but there are two other options:

If I were you, I'd return it for a working unit with USB.

USB (though it's still using a serial protocol across that USB interface) works perfectly well under Linux with pilot-link and Coldsync. Join us on Efnet on #pilot-link for help if you need it. I'm releasing a new version of pilot-link which does protocol auto-detection, so Handspring (old "USB" protocol) and Sony devices (new "USB"/net protocol) is detected and used properly. People have had no issues. Works with JPilot (with a slight update) and Evolution (AC_PILOT_LINK) and other apps.

I'm disappointed

[Salamander]

I was really drooling over the 610, which seems to've been discontinued in favor of the 615. What's disappointing is that a large part of the 610's appeal for me was the viewable-in-all-light reflective screen it shared with the higher-priced 760. According to the specs, the 615 is using a boring old transmissive TFT with a backlight. Now I can only get the cooler screen if I pay more $$$ for a 760 that has features I don't want. :-(