Dot-Commers vs. Government Contractors

StrangeBeer writes: "When the dot-Com movement went bust, it sent thousands of former employees running for cover (or the unemployment line, whichever was closer). One place they didn't go was the way of the Government Contractor who, incidentally, is doing just fine right now with or without a recession. Various reasons are given for this and one I'd like to point out is that the government managers would rather hire an underqualified person with a security clearance and later train them in their tradecraft. The vast majority of these kinds of employees are coming from other kinds of federal work (military, civil service, etc.) and not defunct dot-Com companies."

Comments

SEI CMM

[xphase]

I think the main reason that 'techies' don't want to work for Gov't Contractors is the strict development environment. Think of this in terms of an open source project. Generally there is no strict QA, no extensive version control, no set requirements, etc.

Now this, the general OSS development model, doesn't represent all techies, but I think many programmers, esp. the dot-commers, don't want to deal with all this crap. It's not that they can't deal with it, it is just that they don't want to.

The software development programs are many year long projects that have continual reviews: Design reviews, code reviews, SEI CMM(Software Engineering Institute Capability Maturity Model) or some other model reviews, documentation reviews, etc. These projects have *MASSIVE* code basses, and track *ALL* changes made. No one programmer can just decide to re-write a large portion of code. There are entire sections devoted to testing the software. Some employees do that, and only that. No bug fixing, no looking at the source, just testing.

Also time accounting is exact. You can't just decide to leave 15 minutes early and not report it. You must record all time worked, if you leave 15 minutes early, you must report it, then report again when you make up that time.

Sound fun? Some enjoy this model of work/development(me), but it is not for everyone, i.e.someone who is used to the dot-com lifestyle.

--xPhase

Re:Why not to work for the government.

[TWR]

Bullcrap. I've found that private sector techies tend to be woefully under-trained and under-educated, and the quality of their work shows it.

Count the programmers at the average dot-com who actually have degrees in CS. Then count the number of people working in federal research labs who have MSs or PhDs.

When you're working on mission-critical systems, where "mission critical" means "lots of people will die if you fuck up", the stakes are higher and people understand that. Dot-commers tend to do highly slapdash work because they figure they'll just sell the bug fixes as an upgrade.

-jon

Don't Do It!

[Anonymous Coward]

I started out in the gubmint sector, got a big security clearance, had permanent job security, etc. But I left, because it sucked (for me). Now I work at a dot-com filled with guys who ought to be working for gubmint contractors, because they like to work 9-to-5, if something needs doing, it can probably wait until tomorrow, close enough for gubmint work. That sucks too.

Before You Take That Gubmint Job:

1. They'll tell you that a security clearance is a form you fill out, wait a while, no big deal. Wrong. It's a whole culture. All the briefings, waivers, combinations to safes, need-to-know, access, 2-man rule, etc, etc add up to a lot of overhead on your life. If you're thinking about a security clearance because you need one for a job, don't take that job. If you're getting a clearance because you've got to have one to do the work you want to do, you're more likely to be able to handle the frustration.
2. Slashdotters who care about YRO stories might balk at the notion of signing a stack of blank privacy waivers that will be filled in later for medical, bank, financial, whatever information they want to get about you. Of course, you don't have to sign a blank waiver, but it is really a super-secret "team player" test. Guys who don't sign waivers upon request don't get their clearances processed very quickly.
3. It is hard to get out! I had to work pretty damned hard to break out of gubmint work. I knew a lot of people who were trying to get non-gubmint jobs but who just couldn't. I was lucky, I guess.
4. If you're not ex-military or not related to someone in the military, forget it. It's way too late for you to figure out the nuances of military culture, which is the absolute key of gubmint work.

Having read all that, if you're still interested in that gubmint job, great, because the country really needs technically-astute people doing the tough, sometimes boring work of making that kind of stuff. If you're really into it, there's nothing quite so satisfying.

The downside of having left gubmint work is that some days it is really hard to make myself believe that it matters a rat's ass that it's now easier for people to buy cheese graters online. On the other hand, in my gubmint job, I could see the direct application of my work, because it was in the field putting Ivan's ass in a wringer.

Re:I work for a DoD contractor

[Red Weasel]

This is along the lines of what I've been telling anyone who asks me about the Military.

I got out of college after 2 years bored to tears with it. I had a computer for games and that was it. No plans or what not. Not even a decent job.

So I walk into an AF recruiting office and they send me to take some tests and say that they have a slot open for a programming position. One year later I'm a computer programmer with 65 more college credits under my belt and a job and training and a top secret clearance and they paid me for it.

Granted the position mostly sucked but what the hell 4 years later and I got out and into a contractor position without any hassle other than moving. I now have my company tuition assistance and the GI bill so I actually make money going to school. On top of that the people you meet now will remember you later so I've got friends in all kinds of positions that can throw my name out if I get bored with what I'm doing and want to work on some other contract.

Only took 4 years and now my college is free, I have a job and My contract just got extended.

The military is great when you have nothing better to do and no way to find out what you enjoy.

Plus its and In for contractor work as well as showing that you can deal with any little pressures that come along.

The only problem is that you see things a bit differently. Most problems can be viewed as "No one is dying, it will be fixed soon." Panicky people don't enjoy that view very much and will continue to run around like an idiot.

So in closing if you have no career aspects or no chance of college you could do alot worse than signing up for the military. (just make sure you have a confirmed job (AFSC if you will) going in)

Man I sound like such a cheerleader.

Re:Why not work for the gov right now?

[Two Dogs Fucking]

Not entirely accurate. Interim clearances take a relatively short amount of time (a month or so). Plus, a great deal of defense work is unclassified.

The DoD contractor I work for is actively hiring, and, while we make sure the applicant is a US Citizen in order to eventually get a clearance, we don't require it.

experienced govt contractor says

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been a government contractor for 5 years now, and I can say we:
Get paid moderately $40.00-$60.00/hour

work slowly, projects take 2-6 times longer than in private companies

Are less knowledgable (I've been doing this for five years and I still know squat+1)

Are apathetic (do a good job get the same pay, do a bad job, get the same pay)

Generally I would say a government contractor is a mediocre position. The bosses aren't horrible (ala uninformed stressed out private industry managers). The technology is generally old, and the job is not too demanding. This mediocre position does however create mediocrity.