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Pay to Play II - Project Entropia
Gonzago writes: "God knows how many hours I spent mining or chopping down trees while playing Ultima Online. The dedication (spelled a-d-d-i-c-t-i-o-n) I had to that game would have made me some serious cash if I applied it to a real life job. Now I can have my cake and eat it too! At least that's what the people behind Project Entropia would have me believe. Not only does the premise behind the game look cool, but players will trade amongst one another with real money. Anyone want to buy some armor?" There's an article on CNN which briefly covers the game's premise: pay the company for all the equipment you need in-game, and it all slowly degrades - Entropia, get it?
So, you basically give up real life to become a player in this game, which would eventually evolve to the point where you could buy a game (in the game) that would become your new life...
A redundant article, so I get to make a redundant post.
Selling virtual items in-game was pioneered by this text based MUD, which is financed entirely by sales of virtual items to players.
And since we're talking about "virtual addiction", take a look at their MUD Addiction Page. Now substitute the word "play" for the words "get high", and read it again. Scary, isn't it?
This could work two ways for me:
With the conversion being 10:1, and assuming the currencies don't fluctuate that means time with a prostitute will actually be attainable for me on a regular basis! Although, I don't know if I like the idea of her pimp DoS'ing me when I try to run off...
the article mentions that people who dont wish to give money to the game will still be able to play. I wonder if this means there will be a whole society of non paying gamers wandering the streets of the game, begging for handouts, thieving gold when they can to save up for a tunic...
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
They better make DAMN sure that nobody's cheating. It was bad enough when cheating ran rampant in games like Ultima Online, where in a few days some players were able to build up their characters and wealth when other players had to spend months to accomplish the same goals legitimately.
And just think about the PK'ing that will be going on. It used to be that people PK'ed because it gave them an ego boost. Now it can almost be equated to a real life mugging.
And in UO, items would mysteriously disappear. Close up your house one day and everything's there, then a server crash, come back in, its all gone. When frustrating things like this happen in a game where everything is virtual, about the most I can expect is to quit and deprive them of their $10 a month. But if I invested serious money in such a project and suddenly its all gone, that could be a serious problem.
To be ultimately viable, the company, however it works, has to somehow produce something, in such a way that they end up with more worth than what was put into it. I don't see this happening really, and at some point, when things peak out, there will be a falloff of revenue and things will slowly lose value and degrade.
However, if players can earn in-game dollars by completely real world tasks, then this could ultimately be a really cool way to offset employees. Instead of hiring employees, you have people play your game, and do your work in exchange for the privilage of playing. Think of all the source code projects you could crank out by gamers trying to one-up their in-game adversaries. There might be some potential here.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
...whether I think that this is stupid and won't fly or cool, and I want to play, I can't definitely see how it would be cool to actually have a small chance of getting a monetary return on the time I spent paying a game instead of waving bye-bye to monthly fees. I wonder though, how imbalanced the game will be if you spent A LOT of money on stuff. Granted thsi is the way the real world works too, so does it then become less of a game and more like real life?
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
But the house always wins ...
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)
One of the reasons that many players of games have frowned on these practices in the past is that most of the time people with the cash to throw around like this are a$$Holes. Nothing makes a player madder than to have his carefully crafted player, who he has lovingly worked on for months, trashed because some 14 year old has a larger allowance than the gamers paycheck and bought a powerfull character just to kill other characters.
These kind of personalities have kept out of games like this traditionally because they did not have the personality and patience to develop a character of sufficient power to be a threat to other players. With this system it just comes down to a matter of cash, and those type of people alwasy seem to have cash.
My prediction is that this game will fail not based on game play but on the fact that most players will give up on it quickly as they become frustrated by the less socially adapted version of script kiddies that are let loose on them. While high cash players will make the game look good, it will still take 100,000 paying monthly customers. If a small percentage drive the rest off because of the type of people they are, and because they are to powerfull to be ignored, then the whole system will collapse.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
1. If this game caught on, it may be possible to earn an actual income from this game...
2. If you were earning an income from this game, how would you report it on your income tax?
I signed up for beta testing many months ago in hopes of trying it out. I wasn't accepted into any of the pools but still held out hope of a public beta.
a sp
A couple of months back I received an email from the beta mailing list stating that they were going public with a "commercial beta test". This test would entail everyone paying in $10 to help test the ability of their servers to handle the financial transactions. This sounded quite contrary to their statements that there would be no need to put any money into the system. Here's a copy of the email:
Dear Sir/ Madam You have previously registered your interest to be a Beta tester for Project Entropia. MindArk is now preparing to start the commercial trial phase. An expanded panel of users will be selected to participate in the trials. Those are in the addition to the users that are already in the Beta phase II.
The commercial trial phase will include many of the planned features of the finished product. One of which is the financial system that has been creating ripple effects far beyond the MMORPG market. This financial system will be designed around real money exchanged into a virtual currency. Giving users a chance of actually make real money while inside the Project Entropia Virtual Universe.
Project Entropia will be free to obtain and use, only your connection fee to the Internet will cost you anything, there will be no monthly fees payable to MindArk. The fact that real money will be an issue in Project Entropia requires us to test this system to its full extent. This is why we are searching for users who are willing to insert small amounts of money in exchange for the chance to make much more.
In addition to the funds inserted into Project Entropia, MindArk will add funds to the Virtual World; an excess of 100.000 USD will be available for users to claim inside Project Entropia. This is a first in history; you can actually make a small fortune and at the same time be one of the first to explore Project Entropia.
The transfers are necessary for testing mass transaction flows through the system servers. And will help us track funds through the entire system, this is necessary to ensure that the system is fully functional when we head into the open phase. To achieve this, we elect to create a system where an avid user stands a fairly good chance of making a small fortune by testing this product.
Note that the transfer requirements does not constitute a change of the original specifications, Project Entropia will be free to obtain and use, according to everything that has been stated previously, nothing has changed on that point. This fee is only imposed to test the systems handling real money transactions. Without these tests we would have no chance of providing the service of real money transfers safely.
If you are interested in participating in these trials, you have to follow the link below. You will not be required to pay anything at this point. You only have to agree to the rules stated for a commercial trial participation. http://www.project-entropia.com/phase3/firstpage.
Kind Regards.
Erik Johnels Mindark AB
Note that they state in the email that they aren't going back on their word; this deposit is merely part of a test to see if their servers can handle the transactions.
After getting my hopes dashed by another MMORPG in the making (DAWN, which turned out to be complete vaporware) I was sceptical about the reality of Project Entropia...more so after they asked for money to participate in a beta. I went to their IRC channel to see if I could find anything out about previous betas, but all beta testers must abide by a strict non-disclosure policy which even prohibits them from saying they're in the beta (sounds a little too convenient). A lot of the talk in IRC was people planning their Project Entropia pyramid schemes.
Something tells me that this is simply a petty scam.
---
I didn't want to leave this space blank.
Is it just me or does this leave the game designers very much in control of the cash flow? I'm guessing we'll see:
-Extremely expensive stuff that decays rapidly but that the most addicted "must" have.
-Pushing the prices to the very limit of what people are willing to pay, we're talking monopoly here.
-Extremely little stuff you'll get any real money for (Bronze sword 10 PED, Giant-über-leet sword of Doom 10000 PED? Don't think so. prices will have to be much more uniform.)
Personally I don't like the idea of a company setting the value of the equipment. It's virtual world communism (all is controlled by the "state", in this case the company running the world), and I don't think it'll fly.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
One of the main reasons I play computer games is to get away from this crap world where those who start rich get everything and the poor have to struggle to survive.
Why would I play a game that was just the same?
I'm happy to pay to play online games, but I really don't see how a game where the amount of money you have IRL directly affects your status in play could possibly be fun.
- Muggins the Mad
This seems like a HUGE liability. What happens when bugs in the game allow players to steal money? Or when someone DoS' the servers, and people can't play for days, or weeks? Many players would be quite angry that their personal finances would be interruped, perhaps even destroyed.
Of course it is not a good idea to rely on the game for your income, but there will be people that will do this, and they will complain loudly when problems arise.
I don't see how any lawyer would allow this - the liability is too great.
A way to restore balance: you may be able to buy cool toys, but you won't have the experience points to use them with 100% effectiveness.
Well, it's not perfect, but the idea of a kiddie blindly firing his shiny new BFG-9000 amuses me...
I'd also make the really cool toys *really* expensive. Want that BFG? $100, please. Top-of-the-line armor? Another $75. Don't price things linearly. Well, maybe that's a bit much, but you get the idea.
I'll continue avoiding MMTSs (Massive Multiplayer Time Sinks) regardless...
God knows how many hours I spent mining or chopping down trees while playing Ultima Online.
That's nothing; I had a 9-to-5 job driving a forklift on Shenmue. I even had to freaking COMMUTE. Only people who've finished this game will understand the flashbacks I get when I see a forklift irl...
www.enthea.org
Losers like myself are screwed the first time some millionaire decides to pay them $500,000 to be able to re-enact some Hitlerian nightmare. I can already see the invoice.
$500,000 Supreme totalarian command of medium-large nation.
$250,000 Weapons of mass destruction 10 years ahead of any other developing nation.
$100,000 Impressive cadre of NPC's, minus ethical/moral scripting.
$79.95 Fascist uniform design and tailoring.
$999.95 K-line authority for up to 50 standard subscribers per month.
$4995.95 Immunity from TOS, including all harassment, cruelty and anti-social policies.
FREE "I'm not God, even though I play one on Entropia MMPOG."
From January to September of 2001 I was employed by MindArk AB in Gothenburg, Sweden, doing some of the game design work, especially bunches of scripting in an odd in-house OO language they made up themselves so that even the designers could produce useful code. ..which, I suppose, in essense means that there were no designers... but I suppose I had better take care what I say about my former employer lest they sue me or something.
Not that I'm really afraid they would, 'cause I would sue them right back. I didn't particularily enjoy working at MindArk. Oh, the people were nice, especially the ones that got fired whenever some high-up thought they looked too scruffy from working overnights. Whoops, there I go with the legally flammable stuff again. Thing is, MindArk like firing people who get sick and stay at home to take care of themselves. This might sound natural and reasonable to some of our US readers, but here it's illegal practice. Here in Sweden a company is legally bound to monitor the health of employees, because if they don't, they can be forced to pay for work-related damages. If they DO monitor health, dealing with sickness is a paid by the state, so there's no cost attached.
MindArk doesn't like doing things by the book though. One co-worker was fired for working over night, bumming out on the couch when the brass came to visit. Nevermind the fact that he just got the community forum online, that was apparently secondary. Then there's me, who originally was proud enough to think that I was (also illegaly) fired for being too critical.. turns out I had had one flu too many (no, I don't drink). After that, I also heard that the most driven of the artists got fired, and the effect these kinds of things have on co-workers.. well, I don't have to tell you, do I?
But I suppose most of you want to know about THE GAME, right? Well, that's where I don't want to go. I probably can't say jack squat about the game. If I did, I'd better play some Frank Black "Men In Black" real loud and hope they mistake me for one of them when they come knocking speaking in legalese.
However, I'm a clever guy.. what I can't say I can still insinuate, so read carefully between the lines here. I may only have 4 years of experience in the business, and granted that P:E was my first and only MMORPG, and the work I did was partially generic sound system design and partially extremely high-level theoretic community system design (that I doubt anyone will read my documentation for, or implement my classes for) but ..did you see the guy here on /. who said that the NDA "sounds a little too convenient"? Have you noticed how few have ever even seen the game? I've seen it. Eddy has seen it, so it does exist.. but how come nobody has really played it and told us about it yet? I can't answer that because I would get sued. I can't suggest an answer to that. Too bad because I could probably have told the lot of you a bunch of interesting stuff.
What I think I am allowed to say however, is that I will not be playing Project: Entropia. Maybe nobody ever will. Maybe I already said too much.
/ Per
/ Per