Berlin's Robotic Pub

Gallamine writes: "Take a trip to Berlin, and visit the Automaten Bar to have a drink served by a robot. This members-only bar is completely automated. While this may sound rather cool, the part I find disturbing is the fact that the owner plans on webcamming the security cameras so you can check on who's at the pub. The owner also wants to make it so you can have a SMS message sent to you when a particular person's entrance card is swiped by the system. I guess the idea is that you can get an e-mail to let you know that Bob is having a drink so you can stop by and chat. While it sounds like a bunch of baloney to me, it appears to be pretty popular in Berlin, as they've already got 130 members after 2 weeks without any advertising."

Comments

so..

[Beowulf_Boy]

What happens when you get to drunk?
Do you get kicked out by a robotic Bouncer?

Re:so..

[MrFredBloggs]

Dunno, but i`d be careful with hi-tech stuff in Germany - some guy got kicked to death there recently because his mobile phone ring tone anoyed someone. On the other hand, i can quite sympathize with his attacker...

Hi my name is Robo

[Sleeper]

I will be serving to you tonight. The mandatory 15% tip will be automatically deducted from off-shore bank account.

video interview with one of the creators

[Kraft]

I found an interview (German) with artist Gereon Schmitz, cocreator of Automaten bar. He also has a pretty interesting website (flash).

But no pictures of the bar!

Only popular w/single people, I bet

[Brento]

I guess the idea is that you can get an e-mail to let you know that Bob is having a drink so you can stop by and chat.

Grrrreat. Just what I need, my girlfriend having the ability to get an SMS message on her phone whenever I violate my no-carb diet.

Re:Only popular w/single people, I bet

[jmccay]

That would be just the start. What's to stop bill collects from doing the same thing? What about stalkers and other crazy people?
I bet law inforcement will like it. If they need to track down someone who frequents the bar, they can just get an e-mail!
I bet insurance companies would love it too becuase what's to stop the owner from recording what people are drinking? If you get in an accident, they could just check up on you and see how many you had too drink.
If the information is being stored on what you drink, it could then be sold to Health insurance companies. The health insurance companies can then charge based on the good, and bad, practices you have on drinking. They could, and probably would, use it as a cost saver.

Bender

[FullClip]

If the bartender is as cool as Bender,
I think I might consider becoming a member :)

Without advertising????

[uberkuba]

C'mon its been on slashdot! I bet most of those 130 members have slashdot accounts :-)

Re:Without advertising????

[panthro]

It wasn't on Slashdot when the submission was written. :-P

Robotic Pubs?

[fleeb_fantastique]

We are Devo.

I find it sad to read that the owner of the bar feels the reason folks in Berlin might be going for the bar is because they're a future-going people... and the reason they're a future-going people is because their past has sucked so much.

Still, it looks like it would be fun to go to such a bar. I'd probably study the machinery (if it's interesting enough) and try to find bugs.

Whoa, wait a tic... 'bugs' in a bar!?

Never mind.

What about the drunks?

[cfulmer]

Hmm... So, in the US, there are all sorts of liability suits about things like "The bartender knew I was drunk, but he let me drive myself home anyway," and there's always the occasional bar fight to respond to. Don't know how they handle that in this bar. Or, how does the bartender respond to the suicidal guy whose wife just left him? Bartenders do a lot more than just serve drinks.

I wonder if they have electronic "Norm"s and "Cliff"s as well....

Re:What about the drunks?

[entrox]

I dunno, but people consider it a problem here; especially youngsters, who after drinking at a disco, end up hugging the next tree.
This shows in the laws: you may have 0.5 per mill alcohol in your blood and after that you get punished.. badly (don't let this fool you: if you have an accident and you were under this limit then you are in deep trouble). A friend of mine lost his drivers license for 2 years + 2000eur charges. Not too shabby if you ask me (he had 1.65 per mill).

Re:What about the drunks?

[thenerd]

So, in the US, there are all sorts of liability suits about things like "The bartender knew I was drunk, but he let me drive myself home anyway,"

I think the main problem is that really, one shoudl be responsible for your actions. If you drove while you are drunk it is nobodies fault but yours. You are stupid to do it, and if you hurt someone, you deserve to be punished. It's a silly thing to do. The bartender can't possibly be able to accurately guage whether the 200 people in his bar are above the legal limit for the region, and planning to drive home. It is unreasonable.

thenerd.

Re:What about the drunks?

[rm-r]

I don't know about Germans, but any Brit who is caught drink-driving recevies an automatic ban of at least one year and has to take a much harder test afterward to regain their license. Anyone who causes an accident whilst drink-driving can expect up to ten years in nick, even more if someone dies and never see their license again. There has also been a consilidated push by government to over the last ten years to real bastardify drink-drivers (you should see the TV ads we get around Christmas, they get worse each year) so that drink-driving is simply no longer socially acceptable (a few years ago it was seen as ok to 'just have a couple' or 'have one for the road')

Police are allowed to stop any when they suspect of being drunk and breathalyse them, it is an offence to refuse a sample, anyone near the limit (which works out at about 1 litre of 5% ABV beer in an average sized man) is taken to the station for a blood test (if you refuse on religious grounds you get a urine test, but they hold you longer)

I heard that the US was a lot more lax, maybe that is why it has more of a problem there- any USians care to tell us what the rules are, is it State based or Federal?

Most people over here have no sympathy for drink-drivers and I think it is this unacceptability that has driven it down more than anything else.

Re:What about the drunks?

[mcubed]

I believe it's because they don't have quite the hang-ups about alcohol that you find here in the U.S. Of course, I'm speaking in gross generalities, but that's kind-of the only option you have when talking about national characteristics.

In France, certainly, it's quite common for children to be allowed a glass of wine at dinner, or at least wine mixed with water. Every Frenchie I know has told me they drank wine at home from age 10-12 (Note: I'm not reporting the finding of an official study!) and that there was nothing unusual about that. So you find fewer instances of 18-21-year-olds who take the first opportunity, and many subsequent opportunities, to go out and get blasted.

I don't know for sure that a similar attitude prevails in Germany; I've only been to Berlin once, for a week. They do love their beer!

Re:What about the drunks?

[radish]

All true, but I think the real difference is the legal culture. If I got arrested for drink driving after leaving my local, the last thing I'd think of doing would be too sue the barman. The british culture is one of "responsibility for your own actions", rather than the US one which is all too often "find someone else to blame".

Re:What about the drunks?

[Kierthos]

Well, here in the U.S. (or at least in South Carolina) the cops can still pull you over for pretty much any reason they can think of, and the breathalyser test is used frequently, especially on Friday and Saturday nights. The penalties, from what I understand (never been charged with a DUI) are not as severe. A drunk driver can "get away" with a few points being shaved off of his license (which translates to higher insurance rates). Or he could have the book thrown at him. It all depends on the judge presiding over the case and who the defendant knows.

Thing is, there are cases reported fairly regularly about drivers who have been busted numerous times for drunk driving, lost their licenses, kept drinking and driving, continue to get busted even more, serve little to no time, continue drinking and driving and eventually kill someone. The U.S. judicial system needs a severe overhaul, IMAO, for anything to be done. Of course, the U.S. population is much higher then any one European country AND I think we have a much worse drinking problem.

What we need is a good Orwellian system to keep drunk drivers under control.

Kierthos

Re:What about the drunks?

[remande]

In the US, bartending requires a license, which requires training. Patrons are fully responsible for their actions (if one gets pulled over for drunk driving, they can't pass the buck to the bar), but the bar and the bartender are at least partially responsible for making sure that inebriated patrons don't get behind the wheel.

That is to say, if somebody gets sloshed at a bar and then T-bones you on the street, you can file two different lawsuits. You can sue the driver, who is fully responsible for driving drunk. You can also sue the bar if they didn't take reasonable precautions to prevent it (like offering to call a cab, asking for the keys, etc.). The bar can't keep you from driving drunk, but it has to put some effort into trying.

So under US alcohol law, drinkers are fully responsible for their actions. The bartenders are responsible for their actions as well; the act of serving drinks.

Re:What about the drunks?

[SubtleNuance]

So, in the US, there are all sorts of liability suits about things like


In other parts of the world, ones with less conservative puritan moralizing, people arent committing a crime just by being drunk. Further, they are responsible for themselves, and have no Plutocratic Judicial system setting up Lawyers-R-US liability free-for-alls.

Think about it.

note to troll moderators: its only karma, and ive got lots.

Re:What about the drunks?

[markmoss]

Thing is, there are cases reported fairly regularly about drivers who have been busted numerous times for drunk driving, lost their licenses, kept drinking and driving, continue to get busted even more, serve little to no time, continue drinking and driving and eventually kill someone.

For instance, if the drunk's last name is Bush...

Re:What about the drunks?

[markmoss]

You may be right about wine-making getting a very late start in America. Distilled liquor was an early American product -- there was even a small rebellion against the federal gov't in the 1790's because of a tax on distilled spirits. The basic issue was that with dirt roads and all, farmers living more than a few miles from the cities couldn't get their grain to market. But turn that grain into whiskey, and it was worth shipping out even through terrain that only pack-mules could handle. This was gradually eased by roadbuilding, the acquisition of Louisiana (giving the Ohio and Tennessee valleys the option of simply rafting their produce down to New Orleans), and railroads, but by the time most farmers could ship grain economically, there was quite an American tradition of distilling whiskey and drinking too much of it, and not much tradition concerning weaker stuff.

Carefull what you order

[Andy.T.BOFH]

Cant quite be sure what you'd get if you ordered a screwdriver ;-)

SMS message

[morie]

I would really like to decide for myself to whom I send an SMS message saying that I'm in a specific bar...

Robotics

[Maran]

So, we've got the robotic DAT changer and the robotic bar. The DAT changer was probably much more fun to engineer, but I know which wins the "post-creation fun" contest.

Maran

Cynthia's Cyberbar in London

[twoshortplanks]

Has had a robot bartender for years...

http://www.cynbar.co.uk/

The robot was rather clunky and took ages to serve drinks...nothing at all like the nimble robots out of Short Circuit that mixed drinks. Also, it was all very 'mix this and mix this.' None of the cool presentation you get from a decent bartender. The worst thing is that they have to have a human to take your money anyhow (something to do with not having automated alchol serving machines by law IIRC).

Don't really like the place myself...when I went in about a year back it was all covered in mirrors and hady the most tacky decor. The Anchor nearby is a much better pub, with real beer, seats by the river for the summer and warm fire in the winter in a classic hundred+ year old english pub.

Re:Cynthia's Cyberbar in London

[chiddiscokid]

we were not even allowed to key in the order and after the second drink the robot broke down.

Also, the control screen in the back room had a bluish tint to it but I'm sure that was just coincidence :-)

(and I agree, the Anchor is definitely better)

Breathe Into My Ear...

[heretic108]

... purred the synthesised female voice of the sexy-looking robot.
The patron willingly obliges.
The robot's voice loses its seductive charm and, growing sterner and less human, intones:
"Blood... alcohol... levels... excessive... no... more... alcohol... for... seventy... three... minutes..."

Timothy, get that compulsive knee jerking seen to

[Rogerborg]

• the part I find disturbing is the fact that the owner plans on webcamming the security cameras so you can check on who's at the pub

You do know what "pub" is an abbreviation of, right? Public house.

I'll (selectively but honestly) pick one definition of public:

• Open to the knowledge or judgment of all

Get a clue, get a life, get a job, get a haircut, whatever. But do yourself a favour and don't write single sentences that highlight that you're either trolling or a moron. Although I concede, that's not necessarily an "or" proposition.

Dry bar?

[Britney]

How does anyone get a drink without breaking the laws of robotics?

• A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
• A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
• A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
• 
  
  From Handbook of Robotics, 56th Edition, 2058 A.D., as quoted in I, Robot. In Robots and Empire (ch. 63), the "Zeroth Law" is extrapolated, and the other Three Laws modified accordingly:
  
  A robot may not injure humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

But can it pour a Guinness ??

[macarthy]

... Irish concerns

Re:Larry Ellison pops up at any moment

[pubjames]

Why is it that when Ellison pushes stuff like this, everybody screams invasion of privacy, but when a German bar owner does it, the rabid /. paranoia doesn't show up?

Because it is completely different, that's why.

This is a trendy bar, that people who like tech can go to, and the bar owners use tech in a cool way. Nothing to be paranoid about. What Ellison is proposing however...

This is cool, not "disturbing"!

[pubjames]

While this may sound rather cool, the part I find disturbing is the fact that the owner plans on webcamming the security cameras so you can check on who's at the pub.

Is this a site for nerds or what? This bar owner is doing something cool with technology, and the main point you make is that you find it disturbing? What is there to be paranoid about? Really?? I can't think of a reason to find this disturbing. Please explain...

Re:This is cool, not "disturbing"!

[radish]

"Without your knowing" - except you know the bar has webcams, so if you were trying to hide you'd have to be pretty dumb to be there.

"private place" - errr....pub?(lic)

"without being present" - so it's OK if the bar has windows and he walks past and sees you?

Re:Larry Ellison pops up at any moment

[BELG]

How about that you can decide not to visit the bar, but would be forced to resign your citizenship to get away from the ID card privacy issues?

You're comparing a hamster to Darth Vader here.

Education

[aepervius]

I can't speak for all the French, but I was educated by my parents on what is alcohol, why adult like to drink it, why it is sometimes bad (driving), why abusing is bad etc... Then they let me drink under their supervisory like other adult in my family a milimetter of red wine with many centimeter of water. Education and explanation is the snag. They did the same with cigarette,drug, and yes when I was very young (but too late), on sex. Now the very few US friend I know personally (2) told me about the same things : they werent educated, they were told *not to*. Which is the best way to force a teenie to "try" sometimes. It isn't probably a majority of parents doing so (2 aren't a statistic). But it can be clearly an indication. Now I am not sure we in Europa drive less drunk. How many death per million people is there each year due to drunk driving ? Anybody a statistic for US and europa ?

No tipping required!!

[JJ]

This alone will cut back on my costs.

Everyone should believe in something . . .
I believe I'll have another drink.

Robots compteting for "food"

[Alien54]

I am going to be self serving this morning. This was posted early this morning over on Radio Free Nation.:

The BBC is reporting a sort of experiment with robots, where robots are being let loose in a colony of machines in an attempt to find out whether they can learn from their experiences. The Living Robots Experiment will be open to the public from 27 March at the Magna Science Adventure Center in Rotherham in England. The scientists behind this unusual experiment describe it as an evolutionary arms race for robots. The robots have one goal - to obtain enough energy to survive and breed. The "prey" robots find their food from light sensors within the arena, while the robot predators feed off prey by stalking and chasing them before sucking away their power. 'Living Robots' is a world-first experiment into artificial evolution." huge amount of info at the Living Robots link

yeh, and there is an electronic form of genetics too. Links on the RFN site in the story

Now to get some coffee

Cams in bars...

[UM_Maverick]

Depending on the bar, cams can be a fun addition...at The Rack in Boston, they have webcams all over the place, and you can control them online...www.therack.com

I guess when your clientele is as attractive as the people who frequent that place on a friday/saturday night, it can't hurt to make views of the place available online...

Re:Cams in bars...

[lordkuri]

hey all.... how about the right link

Re:Cams in bars...

[UM_Maverick]

doh...my bad...I was a little paranoid about checking the link here at work...they're watching, you know!

thanks for the correction!

Drink Driving in America

[ArsSineArtificio]

The federal government (theoretically) has no power to enact drunken-driving laws. (Typically called DUI or DWI - "driving under the influence" or "driving while intoxicated".)

The states all have their own legal standards, which are generally 0.08-0.10 percent blood alcohol levels. Each has its own varying penalties for DUI, multiple offenses, compounded by actually killing someone, etc.

Alcohol consumption is, in the aggregate, less socially acceptable than in the UK; actual drunk drivers are on a social plane more or less with Taliban John.

Drunk driving is more of a problem in the US largely because virtually nobody lives within walking distance of a liquor establishment.

Re:Drink Driving in America

[ArsSineArtificio]

> Drunk driving is more of a problem in the US
> largely because virtually nobody lives within
> walking distance of a liquor establishment.

Bullshit, it's a cultural thing. There are such things as public transportations, taxis and designated drivers, you know.

I'd be fascinated to hear what you thought public transportation, taxis, and designated drivers had to do with "walking distance". I'm talking about people living half a block from a pub.

Re:Drink Driving in America

[markmoss]

Public transportation in most American cities shuts down long before the bars do, and isn't all that safe to ride when you're staggering and looking like mugger meat -- and where most slashdotters live (outside the cities) generally either buses don't exist or they're back in the garage around 6 PM. Taxis cost too much -- the driver has to make a living after paying for gas, car payments, and repairs, cleaning up after drunks who barfed in the cab, paying sky-high insurance, etc. Designated drivers aren't always available or trustworthy... So too damned often the drunk winds up attempting to drive himself home.

The legal climate is close to what was described for the UK, only the actual legal penalties normally assessed are quite a lot less. E.g., a guy I knew about 20 years ago got drunk and crashed his car, while his license was suspended due to previous drunk driving convictions. He slept in the county jail and picked up trash along the roadsides for six months, but that was all. He wasn't kicked out of the Air Force or even busted in rank, although I think his brother in law the congressman had something to do with that. Surprisingly, he did learn from this -- at subsequent squadron parties, he stayed at the soft-drink end of the bar.

The penalties now are stiffer, but nowhere near 10 years unless you kill someone, and even then you are probably going to get paroled early to make room for some really "dangerous" prisoner like a marijuana user... Do Brits actually spend 10 years in prison for drunk-driving accidents? I had the impression that -- same as here -- most _murderers_ get paroled in less.

Re:Timothy, get that compulsive knee jerking seen

[Spunk]

Although I concede, that's not necessarily an "or" proposition.

No no no, it is necessarily an "or" proposition. Just not necessarily an xor one.

Heres a novel solution...

[Captain_Frisk]

If you're single. Now your wife will know that you are in the pub, because she was emailed when you entered. :-)

Or you could just tell your wife that you're going to the bar. She's your wife, she has the right to know these things.... you'd want to know if she was out at a bar right?

Re:Robots competing for "food"

[Alien54]

God bless SlashHosting.com of course the Server went down hard at the worst time

so here are the links

BBC News story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid _1 801000/1801985.stm

Magna science adventure centre
http://www.magnatrust.org.uk/

Robotic Center with the good info
http://magna.livewwware.com/acg/acgsmg01.dll/gen /t /robotics/ptxt/robot/ptxt2/000000

Webcamming not bad

[cybercuzco]

I wish that more security cameras were webcammed. Who says that only the police shoudl be allowed to know whats going on? What if theres a brutal police beating and the police just "happen" t o lose the video tape? I think corruption among law enforcement officers would be greatly reduced if every security camera were webcammed. What if that quick-e-mart clerk is taking hotdogs off the floor and selling them? webcam his ass. The only way that public cameras dont violate any rights is if they are truly public and available to everyone, not a select few.

Re:State-based

[Andy Dodd]

Good point w.r.t the powers of federal government. The Feds have no influence whatsoever on drinking aged and speed limits, but it's amazing the power little green pieces of paper and their electronic brethren have... The reason the legal drinking age is 21 in *every* state in the US is not because the government passed a nationwide law, but because the government withheld highway maintenance funds from all states that didn't comply.

Penalties, etc. for drunk driving vary a lot, but they're getting much stricter very quickly these days. Laws are definately stricter in the Northeast than in the South or Southwest. Most Northeastern states (NY, NJ, PA, etc.) have "open container" laws - There are stiff penalties for even having an open container of alcohol in your vehicle, even if you're not the one drinking. (i.e. you can get heavily fined and jail time is a possibility if your passengers are drinking and you're dead sober.)

On the other hand, according to a friend that went to Rice University in Houston, "open container" laws are a completely alien concept in Texas, where a bunch of college students can sit in the back of a moving pickup (illegal in the Northeast in and of itself) and drink to their heart's content.

Re:Timothy, get that compulsive knee jerking seen

[dilger]

Sigh. That wasn't Timothy's comment, it was from the poster. That's what the italics mean.

Apparently that error is worth mod points. Go figure.

cbd.

Und now is de time...

[Graff]

I can see it now:

Und now is de time on Sprockets ven ve dance!

Thank you Mike Myers and Saturday Night Live...

like IRC, but real

[zaf]

complete with bots; only, by bringing drinks, they're actually useful!

What's wrong with webcams?

[Restil]

Are we so damn privacy concious that the very thought of stepping in front of a camera violates some deep rooted right? Its simple. There are cameras in there. Everyone in the world can watch them. If thats a problem......

DON'T GO IN THERE!!!!!!!

This would be like telling someone who's about to go on a game show that it will be televised, and having that person balk. Oh no... I thought it was just the hundreds of people in the audience watching. Didn't know there would be a CAMERA for the live televised show.

I've got webcams in my house. I tell anyone who walks in here that only the entire world can watch them. While some seem a bit aprehensive about it at first (and more so when the lights are constantly going on and off), they can at least accept it. I've thought about putting a huge notice by the doorbell that by ringing that bell they provide permission to be broadcast to the world (which they are the moment the doorbell is pressed when the camera in the front door takes a picture)

As with my house, as with the bar, you know the cameras are there. You know that people might get IM'ed if you swipe your card. Your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/boss/annoying best friend/dog will know you're going into that bar. Consider this fact carefully before entering. But don't get disturbed by it. There are for more serious issues in this world than that.

-Restil

Re:What's wrong with webcams?

[ekrout]

So damn privacy conscious? Since when is privacy so underrated?

As I type, the federal government is probably passing yet another post-9/11 "anti-terrorist" law which will most likely serve to take away the average citizens' privacy while doing nothing to make the country a safer place.

So, yes, privacy is important to many people. And these days, once you step over a certain "line" of privacy infringement, you can't go back.

It's entirely fine with me if you feel that you need to broadcast video and sound of yourself as you walk around your house, but please understand that others may not share your viewpoint.

Re:What's wrong with webcams?

[Restil]

And all of that is fine. Regardless, if I want to broadcast to the world in my house or my place of business, then that is my choice and I hardly see why its "disturbing" to the rest of the public when they are under no obligation to participate.

-Restil

Re:What's wrong with webcams?

[Restil]

Who's forcing anyone to be in my place? Nobody is forced to enter my house, just as nobody is forced to go in that bar.

-Restil

human or mechanical

[K7001]

A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

The only thing I want to know...

[Robotech_Master]

...is do they have beer that's "free as in software"?

Sign over entrance:

[sharkey]

ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS!

Das computermachine ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das blinkenlichten.

Rocky IV

[asv108]

Robot bartenders are old news, the great technolgist known as Rocky, had one in his fourth movie.

Not particularly novel...

[Kymermosst]

In the 80s my grandma used to take me to a place called "The Robot Restaurant" in Pasadena, California. The had robots there that took your orders and brought you food.

I'm sure they didn't do much autonomous thinking, and were probably more like rolling tape recorders than "robots", it was cool, and the operator could take control from the back room and play tic-tac-toe via the robot with an unsuspecting kid.

It was all very impressive to an 8-year old. :)

There's not that much novelty in being served by robots, at least to me!

Re:State-based

[markmoss]

Depends where you are in Texas. Deaf Smith county (west of Lubbock) is dry (Prohibition still in effect by county law), or at least it was when I was in the Air Force near there 1978-1987. That is, the cops saw you with a drink, in or out of a car, it could be an instant bust. OTOH, _someone_ was selling the booze, and I wouldn't have been surprised to find out it was a close relative of the sheriff...

Remember Back to the Future 2!

[wackybrit]

They had this in Back To The Future 2! How cheesey was that! It was a face on a stupid 14" TV that flew around on an arm or something, and it served you up with coke. We laugh at the predictions of the future in 1950, but Back To The Future 2 was the worst.

Nice film though.