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82-Year-Old Coder Trumps BT's Hyperlink Patent

grendelkhan writes: "According to Wired News, 82 year-old programmer, Bob Bemer, claims his creation of escape invalidates British Telecomm's hyperlink patent. He has no intentions on cashing in, he just wants BT to quit suing people and prove, in his own words: 'All this new patent stuff is crazy and counterproductive.'"

17 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. How is this relevant to BT's patent? by cehf2 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This guy claims he invented the 'escape' key. Which is necessary for BT's hyperlink patent.

    I can't see how that can have any relevance to this patent, which covers a very specific method of linking content together. Any patent can use information from another patent, but you would not be able to use what you invented (assuming it uses the other patent) without coming to an agreement with the other party. The fact remains that in that situation, both patents can be valid.

    Please correct me if I am wrong - IANAL

  2. What the hell? by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Look, I don't like BT's patent more than anyone, but this guy's claim is just stupid. Inventing "escapes" as prior art to hyperlinks? Hyperlinks as a concept have nothing to do with the particular encoding you use for them. I could have a table separate from the next with descriptions of where the hyperlinks should be, and you would still have the concept of hyperlinks.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:What the hell? by Xerithane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      RTFA.

      His discussion about prior art is talking about the use of escape sequences to link term A on computer A to data B on computer B.

      The talking of escape sequence is just a premise of what it is. It's a vague abstracted concept that basically equates to user-defined interrupt calls that can happen at any time, inserted by the end user or the program.

      Hyperlinks as a concept, are innovations build upon actual escape sequences as used previously. I'm wondering when we are going to start seeing classes coming up that deal with Computer History were people can learn about Berner, Hooper, Lovelace and the rest of the bunch.

      In a nutshell: Everything we have done since 1957 is based upon the work they did before.

      --
      Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
  3. Can't be said enough by 2Bits · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Advanced technology only happens when people take a basic idea and add to it," Bemer said. "All this new patent stuff is crazy and counterproductive."


    This can't be said enough. Read my other post here

  4. If nothing else... by martissimo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even if his claim doesn't pass judicial muster, it *will* throw a monkey wrench into BT's legal plans. At the very least i bet it costs em a few million more in legal fees as they analyze things before they (hopefully) get thrown out of court on their arse

  5. You all have it wrong by Sarcazmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And so does wired.

    If I read it right, he invented the escape sequence. Like in a shell when you type

    rm Stupid\ File\ that\ a\ window\$ lu\$er created.mp3

    Those kinds of escapes, the ones that are used to within normal text to denote something to be handled non-literally. In other words, he is actually claiming that HTML uses escape sequences &lt and &gt to denote special handling of hyperlinks, same with the ampersand escaped characters, like I just used.

    The escape key has nothing to do with this.

    1. Re:You all have it wrong by Sarcazmo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wouldn't that be like coming up with the idea for toothed gears and claiming that bicycles could not be patented because of prior art?

      Is that any more ludricrous than these stupid "submarine patents" (as they are called in IP circles)?

      I think it's totally broken that patents can lie dormant, and even be amended, in hope that eventually someone will make a lot of money doing something similar to the patent. Patents have even lie dormant for up to 30 years while the holder quietly waited for someone to make money doing something similar to what the patent said, before finalizing the process and actually getting the patent.

      This guy is just trying to get attention. Like the article noted, his claim is not likely to have much effect on the actual case. He is just using his position to bring attention to the matter, and hopefully provoke rational debate about how the patent system is broken as it applies to software.

    2. Re:You all have it wrong by haruharaharu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      is actually claiming that HTML uses escape sequences

      Which is total bunk, just like the case itself. HTML doesn't have escapes (well, except &), it has syntax

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
  6. Re:My Grandma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But she had a daughter/son who then had you, a loving grandson.

    This is infinitely more important than a name.

    Maybe she did things like this guy, from who we never heard before. This is truly being geek: doing things because they are cool, not because of fame or money.

    Congrats on your grandma.

  7. Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Crudely put, though he does have a point. How tolerant are *most* 82 yr olds?

  8. Re:No, Out of Band / Metadata is the concept by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is not far fetched at all to consider escaped data as a link.

    This is wrong on two counts:

    1) The concept of hyperlink is what was patented, not the encoding of a hyperlink. A hyperlink can be implemented without any concept of an escape.

    2) Escaped data might be a link, but that's an interpretation of the data. An escape is an encoding, nothing more.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  9. The patent would have long since run out by yo303 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I agree with what he's doing (BT's patent is ridiculous), but the article was wrong here:

    Had Bemer or IBM, his employer at the time, patented the escape concept, he or they could own a sizable chunk of the world's technology right now.

    If he had indeed patented this in 1960, the patent would have expired by now. Even if it took a few years for him to get the patent, the 17 years would be long over.

    Unless he purposely dragged on the application process for years to make the patent last longer, like The Patent King.

    Now, there is a 20 year limit from the year of filing.

    IANAL, BIWOWALF3Y.

    yo.

  10. old school open-source by BigBir3d · · Score: 3, Insightful

    very cool that the old guys knew that this stuff belonged in the public domain. now if we could only convince that generation following them!

  11. Re:My Grandma by Ooblek · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Oh man, I'm getting all teary eyed and choked up after that one. Especially since thats the first time I've ever seen someone respond to a personal anecdote without some sort of, "Fuck you, my situation is 10 times more poignant than yours," attitude.

    Wow, and a marriage proposal on the same day. Love must be in the air. I hope my wife doesn't smell it because she'll want jewelry or something.

  12. Re:Your homework assignment... by WNight · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if the patent office will ever be sued (though there are some hoops to jump through to be able to do this) for gross negligence, or something. Some of the patents they're letting through are fraudulent, in a way that should be obvious to a member of the profession, let alone a supposedly skilled examiner.

    I can picture a company like AOL or Microsoft having the money to sue the PTO for reimbursment of their court costs against SightSound, or some other jerkwater company consisting of a patent and a flock of lawyers.

    While I'm sure big companies like IBM have patented their share of obvious gadgets they've also got some real patents and this general weakening of patents (what's a patent worth, every idiot can get one) stands to hurt them a lot.

    I'd love to see the government called to the carpet for their failures and the consequences those have had on the populace.

  13. Re:Old-Timers strike back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I'm sure that programming using toggle switches and actual rewiring was a hell of a lot harder than assembly language.
    Um, Grace Hopper isn't known for programming in assembly language. She is known for inventing the idea of the assembler, which is one of those things like the paper clip or 3-phase electric motor that is glaringly obvious to everyone - after it is shown to them.

    sPh

    P.S. Why the @#$#@#$@ can't I log in when I use Netscape 6.2?

  14. Re:Old-Timers strike back by RazzleFrog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And all of this was because women during World War II held this country together by taking on many jobs that were traditionally male dominated while the men fought and died overseas. Not to sound overly sentimental or patriotic but both my grandmothers worked as well as ran a household and I have endless respect for them.