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Wal-Mart, Moore's Law and Open Source

Posted by timothy on from the deep-thoughts dept.

J.E. Kazor writes: "In MIT's 'Technology Review' magazine, Michael Schrage writes about Wal-Mart, Moore's Law, and Open Source. Perhaps instead of spending all of our energy bashing bashing the 800-pound gorilla, Microsoft, we should align the support of a 900-pound gorilla, such as Wal-Mart. Such a symbol of cost conscious efficiency should embrace the benefits of Open Source."

38 of 287 comments (clear)

  1. Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by the_radix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, instead of tackling what many people consider a monopoly, albeit a harmless (in the ecological sense) one, one should ally him- or herself with a company that the majority of liberals in this country believe is both an ecological destroyer and a monopoly on a much worse scale?

    Microsoft is software, with a dash of hardware, but they are still a high-tech company. Wal-Mart is a retailer that drives many other small local retailers out of business. Considering how easy it is to get high-tech things on the market through the use of the internet, versus the difficulty of being a local merchant, I would call Microsoft the lesser of two monopolies. If Microsoft suddenly used its power to lower all its prices so that other non-free (beer) software companies couldn't compete and went out of business, would you be happier?

    Yeah, I chose Microsoft over Wal-Mart. So mod me.

    --
    This .sig is either false or a paradox.
    1. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by hillct · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In an ecological sense as well as when you ecamine small town economies in a simplistic sense, Wal-Mart is a great ofender, however the range of damage to the economies of the world doesn't begin to approach the carnage that appears in the wake of Microsoft as it stomps it's way across Tokyo, London, and Washington.

      The Open-Source movement doesn't need to select a new enemy so much as recruit allies more effectively. The OSS movement doesn't often address the political issues (to the extent needed) surrounding modification of market models that is at it's core - because the Free Software Foundation isn't getting the job done. This is promarily because the OSS movement is made up primarily of technically savvy indeviduals rather than politically savvy indeviduals. The OSS movement needs to take a page from the NRA with regard to fund raising and political power brokering. OSS proponants often make the mistake of believing that the Electronic Fronteirs Foundation is representing the cause of OSS in the political arena, when in fact the EFF is a civil liberties organization - which serves a great purpose and addresses a great need but does not by charter serve the interests of the OSS community, except where (as is often the case) the civil liberties issues they do address are of interest to the OSS community.

      Selecting a new enemy at this time would be admitting defeat. The OSS community doesn't need to select a new enemy so much as confront the selected enemy in the arenas in which it does battle. The Open Source Software Community needs an effective lobying organization acting soecifically in it's interest.

      --CTH

      --

      --Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
    2. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by blkros · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wal-Mart is a retailer that drives many other small local retailers out of business.
      But, Walmart is not a monopoly, and it does better by being more efficient, rather than mowing over everyone in its way. Business is hard. The market rewards efficiency. Kmart used to be a top dog--look at them now. Sears was the top dog for almost a century--look at them now.(Not as bad off as Kmart, but not were they where.) Good business practices help all businesses, even the small ones, because it keeps them sharp.

      --
      Damnit, Jim, I'm an anarchist, not a F@#$!^& doctor!
    3. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by Nelson · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I think it remains to be seen if Walmart is a monopoly or not. I'd be willing to bet that in a large number of areas where Walmart has a presence in the western US and the midwestern US they are the only source for a large number of products.



      They aren't a pure monopoly, but neither is MS, nor was US Steel, or most other monopolies. They are a defacto monopoly in many cases though, just like MS is. The typical Joe 6pack goes and buys a computer, he buys an MS product or a set of them, whether he knows it or not. If you live in rural Kansas or Nebraska or Texas and you need to go buy something, a large percentage of the time it's going to be from walmart, not becuase of cost but because it's the nearest store you know will have the item you wish to buy.


      I think the original message hit it on the head with Walmart. If you look at their managment, it's mostly white men, to a startling degree. There have been inqueries and lawsuits around racism and sexism at Walmart. They have a history of union busting, not that I think unions benefit the consumer a whole lot but it's disheartening the know that a corporation has chosen to close a store (a huge part of a local economy) because its employees' political views and associations they may have. And if you take the defacto monopoly business to heart and then realize that they are the only source for music, books, and even medications in some places and then look at what they have chosen to sell and not sell (I'm speaking directly about medication and contraception here, morning after pills, etc.) we're talking about a company that not only has a huge impact on the economy but on the lives of people and how they live them in a lot of places. This is not a company you wish to partner with, I think they make MS look like saints.


      Personally, I think the matter of opensource allies is kind of missing the point. We need to keep doing what we're doing. It's not a matter of IBM, Sun, Walmart or E-Trade agreeing to use free software that makes it better or takes it to the next level, those are signs that what's happening is the right thing. This is a community lead effort and if we want things to be better then become part of the community, help out, write code, use it. Looking for allies is passive. If walmart starts using linux, it won't affect or impact any of us any time soon (unless they employ Linus and bully him or something) It might give it more legitimacy but it already has legitimacy and you further legitimize it by using it and working on it. If we work on it and make it better then they will use it becuase it's the best thing to use, that's what's happening elsewhere and that's what undoes the MS monopoly.

    4. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by rjkimble · · Score: 3, Funny
      ....one should ally him- or herself with a company that the majority of liberals in this country believe is both an ecological destroyer and a monopoly on a much worse scale?....

      I had no idea liberals believe this. I'm going to immediately alter my purchasing habits from now on and try to purchase everything through Wal-Mart.

      --

      Guns don't kill people -- people kill people.
      But the guns seem to help a bit. (apologies to Eddie Izzard)
    5. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wal-Mart is a retailer that drives many other small local retailers out of business.

      Wal-Mart doesn't drive stores out of business, ratehr, it's the consumers who chose Wal-Mart over their local stores that cause small stores to close. It's a matter of choice, and many people chose to vote with their pocket book. Wal-MArt often is no cheaper than other chains - in fact, their policy is to price at the competitor's prices and make a greater margin due to lower costs. If a competitor wants a price war, they'll fight back and win, but they typically don't start one.

      So how do local stores survive - by offering things, such as service and selection, that Wal-Mart doesn't. I buy video games at a small store - I know the owner, and he tajkes care of me. If a game is junk, he recommends not buying it. When PS2's were hot, he had them for his regular customers - at retail price. If I want a certain used game, he'll hold it when he gets it. Wal-Mart doesn't provide that service, and I'll pay a little more for it. He also beats the big chain rentals by charging less and having reasonable late fees - such as a dollar for one day rather than a full 3 day rental price.

      Price isn't everything, and by serving customers who value service over price, small stores can survive. Wal-Mart's real threat is to the Kmarts and Targets - which is why Target went up market and KMart looks like it'll stick to urban locations here wal-Mart can't get space and some Super-K's.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    6. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by rosewood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed! Wal-mart is by no means a monopoly. There are Targets, were KMarts, Sears, whole Malls, and then your specialty stores. If Wal-mart drives every single one of these out of business by just being more efficient and not cheating, a la sueing someone out of existance or taking a great loss on a product like US Steal used to or making deals with cities that say if there is a walmart there can be no target, etc. then there will still be room for others to do it bigger badder longer stronger.

      Its almost like calling McDonalds a monopoly

      --
      The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
    7. Re:Microsoft the lesser of those two evils by jtosburn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is only true where Wal-Mart has established, large scale competitors.

      When Wal-Mart opens a new store, they usually sell many items at a huge loss, ostensibly to draw in new customers. But since many local, small-scale businesses cannot afford to match those below cost prices, they founder and die. Once gone, wal-Mart raises prices. This is called predatory pricing, and is illegal. In that kind of game, the deepest pockets win, which is why when they compete with larger companies (Target et. al.), their prices are similar; they each have enough resources to price match the other for an extended period of time.

      Wal-Mart has been found guilty of predatory pricing and fined. But the practice continues. Hence the comment that Wal-Mart drives local, small retailers out of business. They do.

      You're right, though, in that one of the real problems is that most people shop to save a buck. They'll drive all over town getting 18 mpg in their SUV because Coke is $0.49 cheaper at Schnucks this week.

  2. Well, at least Walmart.de runs on FreeBSD by rainer_d · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's a beginning ;-)
    Walmart.com runs with IIS on Linux...

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  3. Wal-mart is a tough customer by jACL · · Score: 5, Informative

    When working for a past employer who sells its merchandise through Wal-Mart, I was exposed to its methods.

    As a retailer with Wal-Mart, your product has to maintain a 98% sell-through rate, or you don't sell through Wal-Mart anymore. (This, by the way, says something to me about the Mandrake distro, which still sells at Wal-Mart.) You're required to keep track of the inventory using Retail Link.

    Wal-Mart piloted Retail Link across the Internet via VPN in 1995 using Sun's Sunscreen product, prior to the standards even being accepted -- they're a bleeding edge company. Wal-Mart is always keeping an eye on ways to streamline its operation and cut costs. You can bet they've already checked out Linux. If it saves them on operating margins, they'll be ahead of the curve.

    --
    "It remains to be seen if the human brain is powerful enough to solve the problems it has created." Dr. Richard Wallace
  4. Wal-Mart and Open Source? Never... by dtdns · · Score: 3, Informative

    I for one work for Wal-Mart, and do not think they will ever embrace "open-source" in the manner that many would like, at least not in the next 5-6 years anyway.

    I can tell you that they do use several types of operating systems through their stores, such as a minimized version of DOS for the handheld terminals, HP-UX as part of the POS (point-of-sale) network, another UNIX for the SMART (Systematic Merchendising and Applied Retail Technology) system, as well as Windows NT/2000 servers to cache all those ads you see playing on "Wal-Mart TV" in electronics (and throughout hanging TV's in some stores).

    Would it be cost-effective for Wal-Mart to go Open Source? Not likely. The turnover in staff at the home office alone, combined with training for new positions, etc, would cost millions, not to mention that they would have to literally double their server count at all of their 3,000+ stores. They would need to develop, test and deploy thousands of servers with the new software, hook them into the existing systems to take over various jobs, and then remove the existing servers. All of that for what, to save licensing fees? No, I don't think so.

    Wal-Mart has spent BILLIONS of dollars on its current infrastructure, and to change it drastically would cost even more. Wal-Mart keeps it's "everyday low prices" that way specifically because they do NOT do things like this.

    Now, the Cart Pusher is a wonderful tool that they are getting for most of the stores, however, which will help save hundreds of thousands on accidents, injuries and other damages. And people wonder why Wally World does so well...

  5. quandry by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    here we have again a situation where the consequences of a programmer philosophy may at some point clash really hard will political philosophy. A sort of cognitive dissonance, at least for some folks.

    what happens when the technology you are promoting is adopted by people you might not like? You know, the whole anti-globalist thing?

    Lots of differnt answers to that question.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  6. Get real. by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Open source hippies. Sheesh.

    "Embrace open source?". The hell the should.. just as they should not 'Embrace' any other buzzword or technology. Why? Because to PROPERLY be flexible, you have to look at ALL Your options.

    That's the problem with many open source zealots these days. So many of them can't see beyond the purchace price of the software, or the fact that they can hack away at the code. They blab about security.
    Open source security? Is open-source a better model for security? In a way.. as anyone who cares to can go have a look at it.. but does that make anything open-source better? No, absolutely not. It's like arguing risc-vs-cisc... someone saying their processor is 'better' because it is risc. In other words, they mix up a technology or methodology being better with an actual implementation being better.

    Cheaper? Certainly in some cases. But in others, the cost of windows is NEGLIGIBLE compared to the cost of other tools in use... tools that don't HAVE an open-source equivalent. Tools that have some serious technical support.

    I'll advocate free tools anytime... if they make sense. But in many cases, the proprietary stuff IS better, that's reality.

  7. Re:Walmart.. or Big brother? by dj28 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What? It's their property; They can put as many security cameras as they want on their property just like you can do to your home. They can also CHOSE which music they want to sell. You don't have to shop there. You act like they are forcing you to shop there. Get real. I don't know what moron modded that up.

  8. Read this before you think about it more by z7209 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0215-06.htm

    In any case, the wal-mart culture of middle-america is definitely not something I'm interested in aligning with. Makes microsoft look warm and cuddly.

  9. Censor by sehryan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So we should embrace the policy of the way Wal-Mart cencors music that it finds offensive? I didn't realize censorship was part of the Open Source movement.

    --
    The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
  10. Given Walmart's current Point of Sale OS... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't see them converting any time soon. As a former employee of a very large company which provided Walmart all of its Point of Sale equipment, I can tell you that Walmart runs all of its Point of Sale devices on an OS called 4690, which has a shell and set of APIs that look a whole hell of a lot like DOS, while having some nicer things in the kernel like multithreading. This OS has been specifically tweaked and enhanced over the years particularly for these guys, and I can tell you that they aren't going to abandon this OS that has been essentially created for them and for a particular purpose; it is absolutely rock-solid for what it does, granted that that is slim. But I am agreed that Linux would be a great alternative for an emerging Walmart. Many large companies want to run cash registers on wimpy (486 or worse) boxes, which Windows doesn't do so well.

    1. Re:Given Walmart's current Point of Sale OS... by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

      The IBM 4690 Retail Operating System now supports Java and TCP/IP. So it's now almost at the "thin Internet client" level.

  11. Wal-Mart sells "Naked PC"'s by mikethegeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wal-Mart is selling PCs without OS's

    I submitted this as an article to ./ 2 weeks ago. Rejected. This is a major example of how Wal-Mart could hurt MS.

    --
    === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
    1. Re:Wal-Mart sells "Naked PC"'s by SilentChris · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Um, there's no evidence that Walmart is actually saving consumers money on these machines. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see them making a profit.

    2. Re:Wal-Mart sells "Naked PC"'s by nathanm · · Score: 3, Informative
      Um, there's no evidence that Walmart is actually saving consumers money on these machines. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see them making a profit.
      First, the whole point of a corporation is to make a profit. Otherwise they'd go out of business.

      Second, the exact same model of computer is $99 more with Windows XP Home Edition.
  12. Re:Wal-Mart and Open Source? Never... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You obviously do not work at corporate in arkansas. They already are experimenting with Linux at corporate. If tests go well (most likely they will), they will start rolling out Linux into stores in about 12-24 months.

    My understanding is that they are always seeking ways of lowering cost and have realized that staying with an M$ based system would not lower it anymore (high price on OS,sysad, virus protection, software cost, && development productivity ). This is a company that is ALWAYS trying to lower the overall cost / transaction. While they have spent BILLIONS of $ on hardware and software, they have already paid for it. By moving to Linux, they are able to re-use the same hardware. The companies who did not provide Linux based apps to Wal-Mart when they asked once (& only once) will simply not be part of the plan. Apparently, they have in extreme measures of security and most folks do not find out until they are rolling out the products into stores.

    As to training, I would think that creating a similar interface for the users would allieviate all that. However, the turn-over rate of employees means that wal-mart is always training employees anyways, so that make that argument simple FUD.

  13. Re:Walmart.. or Big brother? by Technician · · Score: 3, Insightful

    4. Ive heard of some walmarts not selling birth control in any form.. (I guess they want to decide who lives and dies)
    They also don't sell backhoes.. The gas station does not sell bicycles. So what. If you want birth control, go to a drug store. The inventory choice might not be driven by any factor other than keeping a low profile so even church people will shop there. It might not be a political statement. Their choice of inventory is left up to them and should not be driven by public opinion polls. It is a business. Maybe they want to be seen as the clean cut family shop on the block where you don't have to explain products to your 3 year old. They also don't sell adult magazines and videos. It's their choice. They do not claim to have every product made.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  14. Re:I pay $.77 for gas... thanks Walmart! by VAXman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure I *love* spending the .91 a gallon I pay for premium fuel, all sparked by a Walmart gas war. They are selling at cost. They have been doing this for the past week. 2 mom and pop stations are now doing the same. I'm sure "the mart" can hang on much longer then mom and pop can.

    THE HORROR! I'm sure all those mom and pops like Shell, ExxonMobil, and Chevron are shivering in their shoes. Maybe they'll actually be forced to come up with ways to be more efficient, so they can lower the cost, too, and reduce their own prices.

  15. Walmart, huh? by filtersweep · · Score: 5, Informative

    "When it comes to managing high-impact innovation, there is no contest--Sam Walton still matters more than Bill Gates. "

    What the article doesn't mention is that many metro and suburban communities VIGOROUS oppose (if not block) the openings of new Walmarts.

    There have been huge union issues related to Walmarts the sell groceries.

    At a more immediate level, it is downright depressing seeing retirees slaving away minimum wage.

    There are a TON of sites about the evils of Walmart:

    Walmart Memoirs

    Walmart Trash Page

    Yahoo stuff

    And lest you forget all the censorship that Walmart does regarding music....Censorship at Walmart on Yahoo

    I could go on and on about their business practices.

    Not to mention that you could hold Jerry Springer auditions at almost any Walmart in the US...

    I fundamentally find it ironic that Walmart is used as an example... a very profitable retail chain that is widely hated... that has many questionable business practices... that crushes and destroys the small "mom and pop" retailers in smaller communities.... then again, maybe it is the perfect example?

    --


    Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
  16. 80-20 and Economies of Scale by MadFarmAnimalz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I read the article, and to be honest there's nothing really new in there to justify the newsworthiness; there's no revolutionary thinking there.

    The whole idea has been stated often enough before, and I think the author was looking for the term 'critical mass'. Open source adoption has to reach critical mass - this means that we don't need to get everyone on the bandwagon, we just need enough to get the rest back on.

    This is also sometimes expressed as the 80-20 rule, a personal favorite of mine which I leverage whenever I can. 20% of the causes yield 80% of the results, generically stated.

    And while Mr. Schrage makes a good point of WalMart basically being the behemoth that can represent 20% of the causes on its own, this does not necessarily mean that it is reasonable to think they might one day go open source. It is here that the submitted story fails to compile - scale has nothing whatsoever to do with acceptance of open source. Indeed, scale may be inimical to implementation of open source.

    With an organization of WalMart's size, as another post correctly pointed out, it is always advantageous to go the tailor-made way. The reason here is another concept called 'economies of scale'; the tendency for life to get easier the bigger you get.

    A small illustration; Company A, annual net profit $10,000, and company B, annual net income $1,000,000. Both need software which, tailored, costs $1,000. It does not really get more expensive to tailor software the bigger the organization gets. More computers does not mean more individually tailored apps. You only, in other words, develop an application once. I know there's exceptions here, such as per license fees and such, but these are exceptions. In our example, company A runs CustomApp on 10 machines and company B runs it on 1,000. Each user, naturally, gains in productivity from using software created exclusively for this particular task he/she performs, and it is here that we notice that the productivity gains in company B are 100 times that felt in company A. The example here is very rough, and full of holes and I'll probably pick up a lot of posts arguing here - but it is basically a sound analysis. Tailoring just makes more sense with these big puppies.

    And tailoring software does not mix well with the ideology behind open source.

    Essentially, targeting the Company A's of the world would probably be a waste of effort, enticing as their support would be.

    Things have to be done the hard way, I think; Company B's are the way to go.

    --
    Blearf. Blearf, I say.
  17. The facts from a former corporate programmer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm posting this anonymously because, well the NDA's are pretty vague as to what I can really say and what I can't....

    1. Wal-Mart *DOES* use Opensource

    A: About 2 1/2 years ago they started looking at Redhat, about 6 mos later (and I quote the memo that went out, given that's been 2 years ago, but I still remember it) "We will be consolidating our existing Unix Platmforms on Linux", yup, the ISP (In store processors) were to move to Redhat on Quad Dell box (they are btw Dell's largest single customer). I have no idea what the current progress of this is, but given Kevin Turner's (the CIO) statment to "Make Open platforms really Open" I doubt they would turn back on that commitment.

    B: Perl. Perl is an offically approved Language to develop on inhouse although we had quite a bit of resistance from certain in-house teams at first.

    2. Wal-Mart "going opensource" (as one poster put it) would have little effect on Sun or Oracle. This is because neither are approved vendors. Sun pissed Wally World off years ago and Oracle is deemed to be just too damned expensive (as was MS SQL Server, Informix and DB2 where the only approved databases).

    You will likely NEVER see contributions back to the community from Wally World, they simply don't allow that kind of feedback. Remember your talking about the Worlds largest company, that despite the 1700+ Programmers they have in-house, don't even allow regular Internet access from Corporate (certain sites only and no download access regardless).

    The author of the article should have done a bit more research on the topic before writing the story. A quick email to president@wal-mart.com would probally get you a better response.

    BTW: also remember your talking about a company that does NOT patent it's internal software like many other companies, they view it entirely as trade secret instead (just ask Amazon.com :-) )

  18. Re:Walmart.. or Big brother? by Cutriss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given Walmart's practices of invading cities and eliminating all the mom-and-pop stores, I think I can safely say that they are forcing you to shop there<\QUOTE>.

    --
    "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
  19. The real message... by dinotrac · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The real message is not necessarily to work Wal-Mart, thought working Wal-Mart certainly could make a big impact.

    The real message is to identify those businesses in the supply chain that have incentives to cut costs and have some ability to ripple down the supply chain.

    One great example is automotive manufacturers.
    Don't know how interested they are, but they have the power, the resources and the skills to implement Open Source solutions if it suits them. They also have huge chains of suppliers who must integrate or go out of business.

    Other potentials are any company that must compete with Wal-Mart. These outfits must be desperately looking for ways to streamline. If a compelling case can be made for Open Source, someone out there will bit.

    And so on and so forth.

  20. Wal-Mart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I may not be the best to talk about Wal-Mart, but I do play in it's sandbox. Here at the University of Arkansas, Wal-Mart has poured millions into the business college. They have a $6,000 dollar 42" plasma tv scrolling news about the department. EVERY classroom has overhead projectors. The business school has the nicest computers on campus, hands down. And don't get me started on how nice the rest of their stuff is.

    All this time, my side of the computational divide (computer engineering) can barely put together a functional networking lab. It's a kludge of old gateway pc's that run about 133Mhz on average. The teacher who runs it refers to it as the "Crapper Lab". Out biggest donation that I can remember was a half million from Acxiom to fund a database chair. Woop-de-do. I don't think we've seen it because of politics somewhere in the College of Engineering.

    Wal-Mart is not about technology. Wal-Mart is cultural juggernaut that is stream rolling across the country leaving concrete deserts in its wake. Wal-Mart may be on the bleeding edge of "efficiency optimization", but they'll never adopt linux. Look at where their education donations go. Imagine their corporate enviroment. Wal-Mart does not take chances. Every dime they spend has a nickel's worth of research behind it. They're not about software innovation, they just want to know what's going to reduce cost and increase sales.

    There may be a linux box stuck in the corner someday installed by a wayward techy, but for the most part Wal-Mart Associates (that's what they call ALL EMPLOYEES) wouldn't step out of line any more than a borg drone.

    1. Re:Wal-Mart by lw54 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Wal-Mart gave $50 Million a few years ago to the University of Arkansas College of Business. They now have the finest computer labs and *every* classroom has everything a professor could possibly want to use.

      However, Wal-Mart has done some really awful things to contractors who work for them. (I've heard other stories) A good friend of mine did a bunch of work for them. After completing almost all of the project, one of the things they were working on didn't test properly. Instead of allowing my friend to go back and correct the problem, Wal-Mart said they couldn't fix the issue and refused payment for the *complete* project.

      It's been tied up in court for almost two years and my friend has almost gone under because of this. They can afford to hold out until my friend settles for pennies on the dollar.

      Wal-Mart does donate money, don't get me wrong, but don't kid yourself. They are a corporation and it's all about the bottom line.

  21. Switching sides by Jahf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wal-mart is more evil than Microsoft. I've seen way to many small cities where I've lived (Wichita, Ks, Huntsville, Al, Murfreesboro, TN) have a Wal-mart show up, setup a small store ... put tons of small shops out of business, then abandandon the small store (usually leaving an ugly skeleton sitting around for years) to put up a super-center and proceed to put the other -chains- in the area (grocery stores, electronics stores, etc) out of business.

    The standard of living goes down in these areas as the shop owners are forced to work as employees instead of employers for far less money and the profits of all of those businesses go to Wal-mart's HQ in Texas instead of back into the local economy.

    The culture of the area also begins to vanish as the area is homogenized into the streamlined Wal-Mart style of strip mall neighborhoods.

    There are many many many other examples of this across the country. There are social and scientific studies done on the matter. Very few show positive benefit for the local economies or culture.

    Microsoft may put technology companies that have been around for 5-10 years out of business. Wal-mart puts shops that have been around 50-100 years out of business and destroys pieces of Americana in the process.

    At least with Microsoft they do add innovation to their market. There are things that I can do on my Linux desktop today that I probably wouldn't be able to do without Microsoft. I want to see Microsoft brought back in line so that they are not monopolizing the industry, but I don't want to see them removed completely.

    Wal-mart on the other hand could go away completely and I would be happy. Even with the rising prices. And, if the corporations that feel stung by Wal-Mart would realize it, they could help stave off this problem by treating other retailers equally to how Wal-Mart is treated (ie, equal costs and equal availability).

    Wal-Mart is the monopoly with the far worse need for being regulated here.

    --
    It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  22. "Efficiency" really stealing from public good by michaelmalak · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Such a symbol of cost conscious efficiency..."

    Wal-Mart "passes the savings on to you" by:

    1. Importing goods produced by Chinese slave labor
    2. Transferring "last mile" distribution costs to customers, taxpayers, the environment, pedestrian safety, ...
    This second item bears more explanation:
    • Wal-Mart takes from its customers. Customers "willingly" drive farther to shop at Wal-Mart, but usually based on the price of gas (6 cents per mile) rather than the full amortized price of automobile operation, which according to AAA is 51 cents per mile.
    • Wal-Mart takes from taxpayers. Wal-Mart generates a lot of VMT (vehicle miles traveled) but doesn't pay for the roads to carry it. Oh, they may pay for an extra lane and signal in front of the store, but not for increased capacity in the several-hundred-square-mile market area.
    • Wal-Mart takes from everyone in its market area. VMT by its nature steals from the public good because cars on a per-mile basis don't pay for their negative side effects: air pollution, water pollution (including temperature rises due to impervious surface runoff), noise pollution, increased danger to bicycles and pedestrians.
    • Wal-Mart takes from the environment. Besides the environmental concerns due to increased VMT, there are two more. First, there is the runoff from its vast parking lots and large store (during a rainstorm, this suddenly increases the temperature of streams by several degrees, which kills fish since fish cannot tolerate temperature changes the way people can). Second, Wal-Mart makes disposable buildings. Wal-Mart builds its large buildings to last seven years, then leaves them as vacant blighted eyesores as they move to even bigger superstores.
    When it comes to Wal-Mart, "efficiency" means "theft" -- not the sort of efficiency that Linux should associate itself with.
  23. Re:I pay $.77 for gas... thanks Walmart! by Seanasy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who marked this insightful?

    Do really think they're trying to put Exxon, Shell, etc. out of business? Who do you think WalMart gets their gas from? Many, if not most, gas stations are privately owned. Thery're more like franchises. There's someone in your community that owns that station. They just buy all their gas from one supplier and advertise it that way.

    This isn't WalMart against Shell. It's WalMart against Your Local Mechanic. Sellingat or below cost isn't efficient, it's abusive.

  24. The perfidity of Wal-Mart is not the point by Jack+William+Bell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wish I had some way of marking every "Wal-Mart is evil!" post as offtopic in one fell swoop. Walmart probably is evil to some extent; every large corporation is. But the author's use of Wal-Mart as an example tends to obscure his real point. The key passage in the article is the closing paragraph, quoted here with every instance of 'Wal-Mart' changed to '[Big-Biz]':

    Today's economic reality is that high-tech decisions made in Arkansas play a larger role in boosting America's productivity than decisions made in Silicon Valley or Seattle. If you appreciate clever innovations, spend more time with inventors, entrepreneurs and venture capitalists. If you want to know which innovations will rewrite the productivity statistics, ignore early adopters and identify the [Big-Biz] in key vertical markets. Moore's Law is a necessary but not sufficient condition for economic growth; [Big-Biz]'s motto is what makes Moore's Law matter.

    Those of you who want to focus on '[Big-Biz]' as evil are obscuring a more important question; can Open Source break into [Big-Biz]? The thing is, computers really have produced a considerable pay-off for [Big-Biz] and small-biz. That is why they use them. In the case of [Big-Biz], however, cost-effictiveness is probably the sole reason they use them. [Big-Biz] doesn't care about the cool factor.

    So, if we want to see Open Source grow beyond colleges and a few small-bizs we need to seriously consider how to show [Big-Biz] they can save money by adopting Open Source Tools.

    Implicit, but not mentioned explicitily, in the article is the extra question "Can we get [Big-Biz] to adopt the philosophy of Open Source as a cost saving measure as well?" By definition [Big-Biz] wants to make lots of money and to squeeze out their competitors. That kind of behavior is what made them [Big-Biz] in the first place. From their viewpoint you don't squeeze out your competitors by creating great tools and giving them away for your competitors to use against you. We need to find ways to make the argument that the win from this behavior is greater than any possible loss.

    However, if you hate [Big-Biz] because you hold anti-capitalist views, then you should also be against helping them to understand Open Source. Personally I think that kind of stance is both quixotic and wrong-headed. But you should be clear in you purposes.

    Jack William Bell

    --
    - -
    Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
  25. Re:and another thing they sell by Captn+Pepe · · Score: 5, Informative

    Judging from their size and crazy profitability, I'd guess that no, there's likely someone else out there not boycotting WalMart. Too bad, really, because it is really a poster child for much of what is wrong with corporate America. I.e. make as much money as possible, with no regard for the costs to society, except when executives feel like using the vast power of a megacorporation to further their personal agendas.

    Consider: WalMarts destroy local business via predatory pricing, aggressive marketing, and outright intimidation. Best estimate, for every two jobs created by a WalMart, three jobs in the larger community dissapear. These jobs are regularly worse than average, too: less than 35% of WalMart employees have health insurance, a majority the jobs WalMart creates in communities are part-time, with variable hours and no benefits or opportunity for promotion, and as a result, a significant fraction (a majority in some areas) of WalMart employees live below the poverty line. WalMart justifies these facts by claiming that it primarily creates retail jobs appropriate for working part-time after school or in conjunction with a "real" job. This, when it is single largest employer in many communities.

    Nationwide, a majority of WalMart employees qualify for food stamps.

    WalMart is also guilty of enforcing cultural homogeneity. Because it is such a large buyer, many publishers in a variety of media -- especially music and magazines -- have begun self-censorship out of fear that WalMart executives will yank a given product from their shelves. The article linked from this story discusses WalMart's increadible influence in the IT market; their influence in a dozen other industries is even larger. People yell about Nike and The Gap because they are brand-image based empires, but most of the output of Mexican, Pacific, and domestic sweatshops ends up on WalMart's shelves, and WalMart is big enough that they don't have to care if people hate them for this.

    The WalMart model is a major contributor to urban sprawl and the degradation of community-oriented life. By destroying the local business base, and by locating stores on huge plots of land on the peripheries of towns and cities, it contributes to the flight to the suburbs, thereby increasing dependence on automobile transportation and the assorted problems that leads to.

    Enough ranting for now, but maybe you understand why some people aren't too fond of this company. I can't possibly include a reasonably comprehensive set of links here, since people despite WalMart for so many reasons, but a really good links page can be found at Wal-Mart Watch.

    --

    Quantum mechanics: the dreams that stuff is made of.
  26. Re:I pay $.77 for gas... thanks Walmart! by LatJoor · · Score: 3

    the less efficient supplier will go out of business

    Cutthroat pricing has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency. Walmart is selling at cost, not charging less because they've reduced their costs through efficiency. Then, when the neighboring stations go out of business they can jack up the price higher than before and gouge consumers, who will have nowhere left to turn. It's a technique that Standard Oil perfected before they were split up for being filthy stinking criminals, just like Walmart.

  27. The real value of free software by argoff · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think many people understnad...

    Today I can roll my own opperating system for under $1000, where merely 10 years ago it would cost over 10 million - that is the value of free software. (in fact, with any free software, not just opperating systems)

    Today if I want my 500 friends (business partners, whatever) to veiw special graphic files, I don't half to send them out to buy a $300 software package. Now they can get it for free saving 150K between us - that is the value of free software

    Today I can collaberate with my 500 friends (business partners, whatever) - if we each make a $200 improvement to a software package we each get a piece of software with $100000's worth of improvement. That is the value of free software.

    These forces are pushing free software into the marketplace, and are the reason why it is and will become prevalent everywhere. Even if WalMart goes gung ho against Linux, it will make no difference. They are not the force driving Linux - WalMart is small compaired to global marketplace, Linux will happen either way.

    The fact that he is so up there thinking that chains like WallMart are going to make all the difference shows that he just doesn't get it and is out of touch with what is really happening in the trenches.