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DSLReports Study: 8 Hours 'til the Spam Hits

Masem writes: "In a rather interesting study at DSLReports, it was observed that email addresses published on a web site recieved spam within 8 hours of being posted, showing how aggressive the harvesters are working. In particular, a special link was set up on the main page that by following the link, the site generated an email address that was trackable to the IP that called the link, and not published anywhere else at any time. In the specific case, in only 8 hours after the email address was created, it had recieved spam; since that time about 9 months ago, it's gotten around 100 pieces. Given the time and source of most of the emails, the authors believe that they've simply got someone at one end of a home broadband pipeline using open relay mail servers, and most likely being paid to redistribute spam on the email addresses they harvest."

115 of 333 comments (clear)

  1. Lockheed Marin by irony+nazi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I started working for Lockheed Martin, I had 4 spam emails in my mailbox that was delivered prior to my first day of work. In addition to this, I had 2 personal (they seemed personal IT related) job offer emails in my mailbox, also from prior to my first day of work. Both from recruiting companies.

    --

    Bringing irony to the Slash-masses
  2. To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by nitemayr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    GOp@Tohell.com
    LeaveMe@lone.com
    Kissmy@ss.com
    All of which I have used to registery sofware in the past.
    Hughj@ss.com is still waiting for his free natural viagra as I write this.

    --
    Hello Kettle,
    You, my friend are as black as pitch.
    With love, Pot.
    1. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by hendridm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmmm, using these sorts of e-mail addresses can lead to annoyances to legitimate domain owners. For awhile I remember the owner of junk.com, which seems to no longer exist, posting complaints about people type "whatever@junk.com" when they register software. It seems his servers were hit or something.

      I always like to use the webmaster's e-mail account when registering software. For example, if I was registering software on widgets.com, I might use the e-mail address "webmaster@widgets.com" or "abuse@widgets.com" to register the software.

      I feel torn, as I want to support free software vendors by allowing them to make money, but I just don't want my e-mail address to be sold for spam. Ever. I also don't want those annoying newsletters that I could care less about unless I *explicitely* ask for it (and not be tricked or required by default).

    2. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by keesh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I tend to go for postmaster@localhost, or, failing that, postmaster@127.0.0.1. You can also try other names -- root and webmaster are also good fun.

    3. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by foobar104 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I remember the owner of junk.com, which seems to no longer exist, posting complaints about people type "whatever@junk.com" when they register software. It seems his servers were hit or something.

      A good alternative is to use the domain "example.com." IANA (Internet Assigned Numbers Authority) holds the names "example.*" in reserve for use as (you guessed it) examples. It's been that way since at least 1995.

      So an email of the form "foo@example.com" is perfectly valid... and can never be the recipient of email.

    4. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by TRoLLaXeR · · Score: 3, Funny
      Years ago, I had been using bob@bob.com as a generic email address to enter whenever I feared receiving spam. As I recently discovered, there really is a bob@bob.com. (The address was formerly owned by someone at Microsoft, if I recall correctly.)

      I'm sorry, Bob. So very, very sorry.

    5. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by Roundeye · · Score: 4, Funny
      I always use real addresses, just those of the people I think more likely to be interested in cheap Viagra, weight loss, and 12-year old girls:
      hotline@mpaa.org and cdreward@riaa.org.

      --
      "Cause there's 40 different shades of black, so many fortresses and ways to attack, so why you complainin'?"
    6. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by Some+Dumbass... · · Score: 2

      I hate to bring this up, since they probably don't like it, but some news servers still accept postings by e-mail. So you could try alt.net.abuse@your.mailserver (or whatever anti-spam newsgroup you choose). Of course, this is terribly rude, and is probably obvious enough to be filtered out by the spammers, but who knows? As an alternative, wasn't there an e-mail address mentioned on SlashDot not so long ago for reporting spam? What was that e-mail again?

    7. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by zerocool^ · · Score: 2

      I actually started sending my junk to root@download.com - they actually pissed me off that bad. All I wanted was to download something inconsequential, and they've been a great resource in the past, but this time, I clicked "download" and it asked me for all kinds of demographic information, preferences, can we contact you, and it wouldn't let me get to the file unless it first went through that. Then I came to realize that the file wasn't even one that they cache on their servers, or that is on tucows or something! It was a link to the download page of the publisher. And not only that, but the link was BROKEN!

      Needless to say, I was annoyed. Not so much that it changed my life, except now I get a little chuckle of someone looking through the root email and checking on bad cron outputs, or whatever, or looking for httpd error messages, and finding 19932 "get rich quick". I always check the contact me button, and all of the "list your interests" buttons

      ~z

      --
      sig?
    8. Re:To Spammer, please Harvest these addresses: by Technician · · Score: 2

      The downside is getting a passport account also.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  3. I think the summary is misleading... by Tom7 · · Score: 4, Interesting


    The email address wasn't harvested 8 hours after being posted, it was sent spam 8 hours after being harvested.

    What would be more interesting is to find out how long it takes with your address on the web before it gets entered into the various lists...

    1. Re:I think the summary is misleading... by MindStalker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well remember the guy put up generated email addresses, meaning each address could be datetime/ip stamped as to when it was harvested. So basically when he got spam it was as little as 8 hours after that generated email address was created. I do wonder what the time span from when the site when up till the first harvester hit, and maybe a nice graph of time up/number of harvesters would be interesting.

  4. Very interesting by InterruptDescriptorT · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While this study is very interesting, what I'd like to see more posted about is how often an e-mail address, unpublished on the Web but used for e-commerce, becomes the target for spam. Whenever I post something where the e-mail address goes up on a Web page, I sufficiently de-spamify it so that the harvesters won't know what to do with it (i.e. it's an obfuscated form of my address). But what really gets me is when I used my e-mail address for getting e-commerce confirmations, important for verifying orders, etc., and find that address the target of spam, even when I decline it.

    I also find it handy to have a 'spamdrop' account, which is just another e-mail alias on my host, for signing up for one-off things, like chat, games, etc. That account fills up incredibly quickly; I receive on the order of 50 spams/day at that address. Wow...

    --
    Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
    1. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Like many domain owners, I have a catch-all email address set up. So when I register I generate a new email address every time. And I link back when I get spam. It's not perfect - sites can leak my address fairly innocently (Salon on its chat pages, for example).

      IME, very few ecommerce sites spam. And almost all of those are obviously from the company I gave the email to.

      Note: I don't live in the USA, so don't deal with some of the more egrarious spammers.

    2. Re:Very interesting by Fjord · · Score: 2

      I put in a separate alias for each service I subscribe to. That way I can tell who has sold my address. It also allows me to drop that specific address from my alias list, allowing me to keep the other ones still working but not having to sift through the spam (which is useful for announcements and for sites like eBay where it sends ligitimate notifications). I have one for my wife to use on usenet too. Once that one gets too much spam, I'll change it slightly. that way you can still reply-to and have it get to her.

      For those who don't know how, you just add a line in /etc/aliases.
      alias: account

      One of the advantages of running your own SMTP server. I use DHS for my (free) domains and am running this on a home network off a cable modem w/ linksys router. No, it's not an open relay.

      --
      -no broken link
    3. Re:Very interesting by tandr · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.sneakemail.com

      I am VERY satisfied user.

      Oh, and for some annoyances http://www.spamcop.net do the job really well.

    4. Re:Very interesting by flufffy · · Score: 2
      Whenever I post something where the e-mail address goes up on a Web page, I sufficiently de-spamify it so that the harvesters won't know what to do with it (i.e. it's an obfuscated form of my address).

      Are you talking about obfuscating it in source code (mailto:)? If so tell me how! I always figured that if a browser could read it so could a harvester, but would love to be proved wrong.

    5. Re:Very interesting by Snowfox · · Score: 2
      Like many domain owners, I have a catch-all email address set up. So when I register I generate a new email address every time. And I link back when I get spam. It's not perfect - sites can leak my address fairly innocently (Salon on its chat pages, for example).

      IME, very few ecommerce sites spam. And almost all of those are obviously from the company I gave the email to.

      I do something similar. With my domain, I create a mail alias for each merchant and kill it at the first sign of spam.

      Some of the merchants are very bad. Particularly the shop.yahoo.com ones. I think that either Yahoo has a leak in its ordering system, or somebody's actively soliciting mail addresses from shop.yahoo.com sellers. Well over half the items I order from there result in spam to the corresponding stores' addresses. Maybe one in seven of the non-Yahoo merchants end up selling or otherwise sharing my address.

      Altogether though, ebay remains the absolute worst place to get your address harvested, with usenet a close second.

    6. Re:Very interesting by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2, Informative
      "Are you talking about obfuscating it in source code (mailto:)? If so tell me how! I always figured that if a browser could read it so could a harvester, but would love to be proved wrong."

      My new address has been up on the company web site for two and a half month but no spam AT ALL has come to it ... this is possibly because I used the win32 prog Mailto Encryptor for all the mailto links. (You have to go into the site a bit to find it.)

    7. Re:Very interesting by kubrick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Altogether though, ebay remains the absolute worst place to get your address harvested, with usenet a close second.

      Ebay must be lucrative for spammers; a whole 'audience' of people either with money to spend (buyers), or who are about to have money to spend (sellers). And this 'audience' has already self-selected; they're not afraid to spend their money online...

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
  5. That's nothing... by gUmbi · · Score: 3, Funny

    What's the average length of time between a slashdot posting and the subsequent DoS attack on the linked site?

    Jason.

    1. Re:That's nothing... by discogravy · · Score: 2

      they would have statistics on this already on their page, but their server is being slashdotted right now...oops.

  6. Spammed by the best by reparteeist · · Score: 3, Funny

    Damn that Bernard Shifman! Will he never learn?

    --
    If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed... Oh wait, he does.
    1. Re:Spammed by the best by dattaway · · Score: 2

      Speaking of spamming resumes... with a name like that, no wonder why no one would give him a job! What kind of parents would name their child Bernard? Related to a dog? Mr. Shitman needs to get his name changed.

  7. Re:Hmm... by dagoalieman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How about we put FBI and CIA email addresses up, or *.gov, and see how long until the spammers are raided?? I bet it could even be before that first spam gets out if we use the right addresses/web links..

    I bet that time period for harvesting goes down pretty quick.. :)

    .

    --
    We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
  8. How? by SevenTowers · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On 6.26am the morning of May 13th, 2001, the link is hit from IP 24.1.197.144 - a residential cable modem in Arizona

    Google is big. Google has a very fat spider going around. Google definitly does not check a nowhere webpage as soon as it is created! How can somebody on a cable account (limited bandwith?) scan pages at a high enough rate that they hit an almost invisible webpage soon after it was created? Big machine, big connection? spoofed IP?

    Is this business really so lucrative that people are willing to spend hours working on it? It'd like to have some stats on how many people actually subscribe to the "services" advertised for in spam. I know a spider is not a lot of maintenance once setup and the distribution cost for the spammers is almost null because they make everybody else pay for it, but where the hell do they get the profit...

    --
    Imperium et libertas
    Autocracy and freedom
    1. Re:How? by yesthatguy · · Score: 2

      The article doesn't mention how long it took from when the hidden page was put up to when it was hit; it only looks at the time after that. For all we know after reading the article, that link could have been up for a year before it got a hit. However, since it was presumably linked from a reasonably major site (DSLReports), that probably increases the chances that it would be found quickly. All it takes is for one guy sitting at home to type dslreports.com in to his harvester (or some site that links to dslreports.com) and they find the link. The probability of that happening at a major website, given enough time, is quite large, I'd fathom.

      --
      Yes! That guy!
    2. Re:How? by Arker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Google has to do a lot to process a page. It tries to analyze the content, it crossreferences complex networks of linking, building a very complicated database for searching.


      A spammer-spider can be much more simple, and thus move much more quickly. All it is interested in are email addresses. Period.


      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    3. Re:How? by Restil · · Score: 4, Interesting

      From what it sounds like. spammers delegate spamming to smaller, entities. Each of these enitites constantly scans its own set of pages, then sends spam to every address it finds. It might keep a list that it updates a master list with, or it might not. But the harvesting and spamming is done from many boxes on many networks.

      This means, if there are enough of them, you could easily scan several tens of thousands of pages every day with little difficulty. And if one or even many of them get shut down, the spamming operation is not affected much. This is probably the first good example of a distributed network for profit. Too bad its such a slimy one.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
    4. Re:How? by sunhou · · Score: 2

      That's a good point. I recently did some scanning for web servers, as part of a research project I'm doing about spatial correlations in IP address space. I wrote a little C program to do the scanning, which opens 900 simultaneous socket connections, with a 2-minute timeout period, and a 30-second timeout when reading from supposedly active web servers. I found that I was able to scan roughly 27,000 addresses per hour.

      But even at that rate, it would take me about 18 years to scan the entire internet.

      However, if there were 1,000 people all scanning at that rate, they could do it in under a week.

      Now, how many people do you think are out there looking for web servers to harvest e-mail from? I dunno, but it's probably a lot closer to 1,000 than it is to 1. So it's not surprising to get hit by a random scan pretty often.

  9. Random E-mail address? by Peyna · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'm curious how random the e-mail address was. If was something like 'bob79@', then I would expect it to receive spam regardless of being harvested.

    I used to have an e-mail address that was andrew@, it was great for a year or two. I still have it, but I do not retrieve the messages since it receives 30+ SPAM messages per day. My other e-mail address is my first initial + last name, and my last name is rare enough that I get maybe 1 Spam message per month.

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Random E-mail address? by leeward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the point the article made, which got lost in the summary on /., is that the web page was up for awhile (the article only says A while ago) without receiving spam at the associated email address. When it finally received spam, they went back to the web logs, and found the entry corresponding to the unique email address that was generated for that particular hit. And they discovered that the particular web page hit corresponding to the spammer happened 8 hours before the spam arrived.

      The interesting part to me is the conclusion that all subsequent spam over a 9 month period was the result of that single web page hit. That tells me that addresses are harvested off obscure web pages only occasionally. I suspect that most spammers get email addresses come from other sources.

  10. This + Giant laser of death by Qwerpafw · · Score: 2, Funny

    The solution to spam is that Giant laser of death the airforce just got. Tie it to the email system, so once a spammer is identified, they become toast. Literally.

    Sheesh, though, I hate spam. I get like 10 spam a day at my real email address, which people only can discover by talking to me (I don't post it or give it out for obvious reasons).

    Maybe some kind of bulk-email tax could be imposed.... Even though I am firmly against internet tax, I think making the spammers pay for the mail (ala-junk mail via postal system) is the only solution.

  11. They randomly attack servers, too. by King_TJ · · Score: 2

    Not only are addresses harvested quickly, but it's amazing how often they'll use a brute-force attack. This is how some email spam ends up in new employee mailboxes.

    I've seen it while administering our own Exchange server. They'll try all sorts of common name combinations (such as rsmith@, tsmith@, jsmith@, etc.) in the hopes that some of them exist.

    They know your domain is valid - so they never lay off trying to stuff garbage in any valid boxes on the site they can hit.

  12. How to foil email harvesters by grunby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Something like WPoison has to be used more often. Until a higher percentage of harvested emails are faked, these web spiders will continue roaming the web, adding email addresses to their collection.
    - grunby

  13. New use for this? by iamplasma · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could this technique be changed. Rather than generating a mailbox for the spam to go to, based on IP, instead generate the abuse address for the IP's netblock owner.

    That way, whoever is running the spider can start spamming direct to the abuse address, saving the site owner from having to report them. :)

    1. Re:New use for this? by odaiwai · · Score: 2

      I've received email to abuse@ and postmaster@ before. I don;t think they get filtered out.

      dave

    2. Re:New use for this? by bero-rh · · Score: 2

      Take a look at http://www.bero.org/NoSpam/isp.php - I've put up my apache configuration there. It does just that at least for some unintelligent spambots.

      --
      This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
  14. Does SPAM work? by microTodd · · Score: 2

    I for one am curious if a spam e-mail has EVER worked. Why do so many people spend so much time and money working on spam technology? SOMEONE out there must be buying things from spam ads.

    --
    "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
  15. Re:Hmm... by no+reason+to+be+here · · Score: 5, Informative

    the e-mail address is uce@ftc.gov

  16. Solution? by gnovos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Does suing spammers work? For example, if you made a web-page that CLEARLY reads: If you agree to pay me $52,000, please send email to foo@bar.com. Consent of this contract will be shown by sending an email to that address, regardless of content.

    Post this email NOWHERE else. Wait for a spider to come around and harvest... Is such a contract legally binding? I would think it would be, considering you can make online-payments and such, and those contracts are binding (i.e. if you promise to pay Amazon for your book, you have to do it, right?)

    --
    "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
    1. Re:Solution? by reparteeist · · Score: 3, Informative

      Although there is no federal law, some states have them forbidding unsolicited spam. For the details in your area, go here.

      --
      If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed... Oh wait, he does.
    2. Re:Solution? by edp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know if a judge will enforce such an agreement, but, just in case, here's an embellishment: Make the generated address contain not only the IP address, but also the agreement. E.g., I_the_user_of_IP_address_aa.bb.cc.dd_promise_to_pa y_you_$100_for_reading_this_email@mydomain.com.

      That simplifies the process of proving you offered them an agreement and so on.

    3. Re:Solution? by Pussy+Is+Money · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is just a variation on:

      IMMA JUST GONNA GO LIKE THIS,

      (Bart Simpson closes his eyes and starts spinning his arms)
      AND IT'S NOT MY FAULT IF YOU GET HIT!

      (Bart comes flailing towards Lisa)
      Of course that's not legally binding. The law is not stupid.
      --
      Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
    4. Re:Solution? by gnovos · · Score: 2

      Of course that's not legally binding. The law is not stupid.

      I don't see how this is any different then when you "purchase" something on-line. I mean, you send a request for some item, they send the item, and you send the payment. Lets say you make an mp3, charge $6500 for it, and have people send requests for it to I_WANT_TO_BUY_YOUR_MP3_FOR_6500_DOLLARS@domain.org

      --
      "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
    5. Re:Solution? by gnovos · · Score: 2

      Let's say my phone number is 1-YOUPAY5. Does that mean you have to pay five bucks when you dial a wrong number?

      Let's say my phone number is 1-900-PAY-LOTS

      Does that mean you have to pay me $3.95 when you dial a wrong number?

      --
      "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
    6. Re:Solution? by Pussy+Is+Money · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know what it's like in the US, but in the Netherlands, when you call a 1-900 number (or the Dutch equivalent), you get a recorded message informing you of the cost of the call. So, no, if I dial a wrong number, I am informed and can hang up. If it's not like that in the US, pity you poor fools.

      --
      Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
    7. Re:Solution? by bero-rh · · Score: 2

      I believe it is (by the way, this message is covered by the bero.org documents license).

      Another thing that occasionally helps is enforcing terms of use on your mail server.
      e.g. if you connect to mail.bero.org port 25, you'll see 220 www.bero.org ESMTP Postfix - SENDING ANY COMMAND OTHER THAN "QUIT" CONSTITUTES ACCEPTANCE OF THE TERMS OF SERVICE OUTLINED AT http://www.bero.org/smtp-tos.html with smtp-tos.html being terms of service forbidding anything related to spam (including delivery).

      I'm not 100% sure this is actually enforcable, but it's surely scary enough for some spammers to pay rather than risking it. (And a relatively safe way to at least get off their lists - they don't want to get an invoice again even if they're ignoring it).

      --
      This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
  17. Re:Hmm... by BrookHarty · · Score: 2

    Actually, I wonder what the stastics on spam for government email addresses. If spammers just put *.gov in the ignore lists.

    Are there any government employees who can comment on this?

  18. sneakemail by doofsmack · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's exactly why I use sneakemail. It gives you a random email address like asjglkjg176489@sneakemail.com. When an email is sent there, it goes to your inbox. You can have as many aliases as you want (They suggest 1 per site you sign up with). If you receive spam on one of them, you can just disable that alias. It's really great.

    1. Re:sneakemail by Matthaeus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Qmail is also great for this. In its default setup, if a user has e-mail address foo@bar.com, he can use foo-baz@bar.com for any values of baz (e.g. foo-realplayer@bar.com, foo-amazon.com@bar.com, etc). No work on the part of the admin is required unless an account starts getting too much spam.

    2. Re:sneakemail by mjh · · Score: 2

      You don't need to use an external service to do this. You can do it yourself. There are several programs that do this. The one that I use is TMDA. Another is Kiwispam.

      --
      Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
  19. The Cutting Edge of Web-Crawling by Rayonic · · Score: 2

    Apparently the cutting edge of harvesting web information (in this case e-mail addresses) is in the spam business. We all like to think that entities like Google are at the forefront of Web searching technology, but it seems like shadowy, unscrupulous advertising firms may be just ahead of the curve.

    I know I'll get modded down for this, but I think there are a lot of parallels between this case and that of pornography (another somewhat shadowy industry that is often looked down upon, yet is always there to profit off of new technologies as soon as they become available.)

    1. Re:The Cutting Edge of Web-Crawling by psychosis · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't mod you down even if I had mod points, but I'd just make the point that your seem to be noting that the use of technology is somewhat further ahead of the curve in those industries than the mainstream public.
      Regardless of your own views on porn, it's largely there for those who want it and avoidable for those that don't. <warning type="bad pun ahead">It's not like they shove porn down your throat like spammers do with their "information"</warning> I'd rather tell people I was in the adult business than a spammer! ;) (Not that I'm in either, though!!!)

  20. telemarketers by Beowulf_Boy · · Score: 3, Funny

    I rarely ever got telemarketing calls.
    Last week I applied for a telemarketing job.
    Within hours I started getting calls, and I've gotten 5 a day since.

    1. Re:telemarketers by TheFlu · · Score: 5, Informative
      I have a similiar experience. I recently started participating in Spamcop.net's blacklisting effort...a few days after I started submitting SPAM to be blacklisted, for some reason, my daily SPAM intake has tripled. I'm not sure if it's just coincidence or what, but it doesn't please me. I hate to think of the reason why this has happened...


      I'm seriously considering moving my mail servers over to using TMDA, which I hear stops about 99% of SPAM. At this point, I have to do something.

    2. Re:telemarketers by sholden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I rarely ever got telemarketing calls.
      Last week I applied for a telemarketing job.
      Within hours I started getting calls, and I've gotten 5 a day since.

      Karma...
    3. Re:telemarketers by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 2
      Hm...not sure if just submitting stuff to spamcop (you send the spam, they email back a link, you click on the link and hit submit) but if you are, I don't think it's likely you'll get spam from that. Also, have a look at the MRTG spam graph I maintain. It keeps track of the numbers of messages we catch using procmail. As I write this, the average over the last couple days is 333/hour. In the time I've been keeping this graph, I figure something like 1.25 million pieces of spam have been caught.

    4. Re:telemarketers by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 2
      Crap...always hit preview, kids.

      What I meant to add is that I take abuse complaints at the small ISP where I work. Occasionally one of our customers will spam, and often the first reports we get will be from Spamcop. I can reply to the reports, but the email address is always something like "8723742347y77@spamcop.net". Unless the sender has left in a .sig w/their email address, I'll never know it.

    5. Re:telemarketers by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Insightful
      > I rarely ever got telemarketing calls.
      >
      > Last week I applied for a telemarketing job.
      > Within hours I started getting calls, and I've gotten 5 a day since.

      Since only a moron would want to be a telemarketer (i.e. would believe the "Make $$$ at our call center, d00d!" flyers on campus), it stands to reason you got placed on a "sucker's list" as a result of applying for the job.

      If I were in a good mood I'd call it poetic justice and leave it at that.

      But I'm not in a good mood today, so I'll just gloat by pointing out that payback's a bitch, and on behalf of the rest of us who no longer answer our phones because of pieces of subhuman shit such as yourself (oh, sorry, you only applied for the job, that makes you a wannabe subhuman piece of shit :) that I sincerely hope you never receive a non-telemarketing phone call again as long as you live.

      Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

    6. Re:telemarketers by buss_error · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Since only a moron would want to be a telemarketer

      Since he didn't say if it was inbound or outbound TM, you might be premature on that rant. Sure, outbound (where they call you) sucks, but what's wrong with inbound (where you call them)?

      As for being a moron if he was going for an outbound job, let me say that if it comes down to feeding my family or not, I'm going to feed them. If this means I have to take an outbound TM job, well, I'll just have to do it.

      As much as I hate the Telemarketing business model, remember that the person on the other end of the phone (99 times out of 100) is just trying to make an honest living. I'm (mostly) polite to the TM's that call, and ask to be put on the "do not call" list. That works, except for some chairities that won't leave you alone until you are dead 5 years.

      The long and the short of it is -- lighten up, 'cause life's too short to blow a fuse over a phone call.

      --
      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  21. Re:Does SPAM work? - Yes by nuggz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, it does work.
    Last I heard they would get a response of something like 0.02-0.05% of the time
    That is 2-5 for every ten thousand spams.

    They don't care, send out a few hundred thousand spams, get a few hundred responses, they can make money.

    Shortly after it stops working, people will stop spamming.

  22. Mod this question up, please. by Lendrick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How exactly does someone running a standard Windows install go about faking an email bounce? Or on Linux?

    Lendrick

    1. Re:Mod this question up, please. by AragornSonOfArathorn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why I love Mac OS X's Mail program... There is a menu option to bounce email :-) Why doesn't M$ put this in Outlook? Maybe they don't want people bouncing their (Microsoft's) spam?

      --
      sudo eat my shorts
    2. Re:Mod this question up, please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Spammers rarely receive bounces, it's not worth the effort. You'll just be adding to tens of thousands of others sent to the unfortunate person whose address was forged as the SMTP sender.

  23. Re:other spammer harvesting tricks by topham · · Score: 2

    I'm convinced they create a list of names, (anything before the @) and a list of domains, (anything after the @) and submit ALL names to all domains.

    I say this because of mail I have which contains a dozen variations on my address in 'Apparently-To' entries in the mail.

  24. Re:Hmm... by dagoalieman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That could be a fun one too.. set up an email address in your domain, set forwarding on the account by rule/filter/whatever equiv for your email system so that it goes to uce@fbi.gov or whatever that spam collector address was. Or find a higher up address to send to, even. (Like an employee for the FBI who has no SSN, Name, DOB...) Just add a little script to tag into the email before forwarding that says "This person was inquiring about you.. thought you'd be interested.."

    You know, even mentioning that idea, I'm suprised I haven't gotten a knock at my door already.. :)

    You've got a good point though- I would imagine that .gov addresses get blacklisted, but on the otherhand I know some people at the state level who get spam at their addresses. So we'd at least get rid of the so-stupid-they-can't-spam-right people.. :)

    .

    --
    We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
  25. Spam by unique email address by slashdot.org · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been using the 'theirname@mydomain.com' technique whenever I provide an email to on-line stores.

    I was amazed when I started receiving spam on 'premaritalagreement.com@mydomain.com' (only the mydomain is fake!) and I contact the people and they denied everything. But at least you can ban that email address and ban the company.

    On the other hand it's funny when (for some reason) the company calls you to verify something, and they go over all the stuff and then get to the email. There was one person that just didn't get it: 'yeah, but that's OUR email address', recognizing her companies name. :o)

    For those reasons some people generate an obfuscated (rot-13 for example) address.

    In any case, the sad thing is that there's not much you can do against the companies that sell your email address, legally...

    1. Re:Spam by unique email address by sunhou · · Score: 2

      I had one company whose web page wouldn't let me register an e-mail address with their company's name as part of my address. I usually register addresses like "jm-ZZZ@mydomain.com" where the "ZZZ" is that company's name, e.g. "jm-amazon@mydomain.com" (the "jm" stands for "junk mail").

      Anyway, when I was filling in the registration info on one company's page that I was buying something on (wish I could remember which one), it came back saying invalid e-mail address. I was thinking "huh, what is invalid about that e-mail address?!" I tried a few variations, and sure enough, as soon as I put in one which didn't have the company's name as part of the address, it stopped complaining and accepted it. Bastards. And too bad for anyone who actually has that word in their e-mail address...

  26. Re:central database for spam-blocking ?? by g00z · · Score: 2, Informative

    There already exists such a thing. Check out http://www.ordb.org/ and you can set up sendmail (Or whatever you use) to check their database for known open relays. If found out about this little gen when my mail server was found to have a hole in it. Only bumb deal about it is that now that I have the hole fixed, I can't seem to get my mailserver off their damn list. :)

    But jokes aside, if you run a mailserver and want to block a good deal of spam, you should check out their site.

    --
    "The Wright brothers were the first to fly with a heavier-than-air machine, but boy did they have a lousy plane"
  27. Re:Hmm... by Moonshadow · · Score: 2
    Whenever I receive an email from a spammer with one of those "click here to remove your email" links, I paste it into the browser, feeding in uce@ftc.gov as the email instead. Since those forms just feed into the spammer's "sucker" lists, it saves me the trouble of having to forward the email to them - the spammers just do it for me. Hitting up uce@ftc.gov 19 times a day - lets see how quickly they're put outta business :)

    I'm working on a script that will let me send unsubscribe emails with uce@ftc.gov as the from header as well.

    Any other ideas on how to abuse spammers?

  28. Re:Get a Hotmail account by g00z · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bah -- do what I do (and other smart people that run their own mailserver) -- set up an aliases list for your email address. Everytime you need to give somebody your email address (For required registrations and all the other stuff that makes the web annoying as hell these days) just make an alias to your "real" address, get your mail from the company, then go and remove that alias -- Voila! You got your registration ID or whatever, and now that company has a bunk email address that they can sell out to spammers, with no concequence to yourself.

    As easy as proverbial pie.

    --
    "The Wright brothers were the first to fly with a heavier-than-air machine, but boy did they have a lousy plane"
  29. Step 1: Spam, Step 3: Profit! by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2
    If you didn't want to listen to P. T. Barnum (who is often incorrectly attributed) and don't see AOL as further proof... SPAM has got to be some of the best evidence.


    "There's a sucker born every minute."


    A great expose of how spammers operate comes from one of the mirrored sites Behind Enemy Lines. It shows that if SPAM itself isn't always profitable, selling the service of spamming certainly is. And to make this profit, spammers will resort to illegal activities.


    Of course, when you consider the morals this group has already demonstrated, it should come to no suprise that their most agressive campaign was a stock pump-n-dump scam.


    Does SPAM pay? Apparently. But so do a lot of other crimes.

    1. Re:Step 1: Spam, Step 3: Profit! by geekoid · · Score: 2

      I read that history buff link, great read!
      I loved this part:
      It seems that many an evangelist at the time had been preaching that there were giants in the earth.

      that was only ~134 years ago!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  30. What about the Godzillagram by keesh · · Score: 2

    Along the same lines, does anyone know where root@255.255.255.255 would go to?

  31. Report that Spam! (A bit OT) by PhatKat · · Score: 2

    There is a relatively easy way to report businesses and organizations you believe to be acting unlawfully to the FTC. Here's the link: FTC complaint page.

    From the page:

    If you would like to forward unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) to the Commission, please send it directly to UCE@FTC.GOV without using this form.

    Use with care,


    PhatKat

  32. Have some fun by nodrip · · Score: 2, Funny

    Make their lists worthless. Compile this, run it, and put the result up on your favorite web site. Hide a link to it in your pages. Also add a disalow in your robots.txt so Google doesn't waste time on it.

    #include <stdio.h>
    #include <stdlib.h>
    #include <string.h>
    #include <math.h>

    #define MAX_DOMAINS 8

    static char * domains[MAX_DOMAINS] =
    {
    "com", "edu", "biz", "net", "gov", "it", "ru", "info"
    };

    int getRandomLength( void )
    {
    float val = (float)rand();
    val = val / RAND_MAX;
    val = val * 20;
    return (int)val;
    }

    char getRandomChar( void )
    {
    float val = (float)rand();
    val = val / RAND_MAX;
    val = val * 26;
    return (char)( ((int)val) + 0x61 );
    }

    int main(int argc, char* argv[])
    {
    char c;
    char buf[1000];
    FILE * fp;
    int accountLength;
    int subDomainLength;
    int bufIndex;
    int i, g;

    int gencount = atoi( argv[1] );

    printf( "Generating %i accounts.\n", gencount );

    fp = fopen( "emaillist.html", "w" );

    if ( fp == 0 ) return 0;

    for ( int dcount = 0; dcount < MAX_DOMAINS; dcount++ ) {

    g = gencount;

    while ( g > 0 ) {

    memset( buf, 0, sizeof( buf ) );
    bufIndex = 0;

    accountLength = getRandomLength();
    subDomainLength = getRandomLength();

    for ( i = 0; i <= accountLength; i++ ) {
    c = getRandomChar();
    buf[bufIndex] = c;
    bufIndex++;
    }

    buf[bufIndex] = '@';
    bufIndex++;

    for ( i = 0; i <= subDomainLength; i++ ) {
    c = getRandomChar();
    buf[bufIndex] = c;
    bufIndex++;
    }

    buf[bufIndex] = '.';
    bufIndex++;

    strcat( &buf[bufIndex], domains[dcount] );

    fprintf( fp, "%s ", buf );

    g--;
    }
    }

    fclose( fp );

    return 0;
    }

    --


    -- "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."
    1. Re:Have some fun by Spackler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Make their lists worthless. Compile this, run it...(snipped out overly long, but runnable C proggy)

      Dood, learn some perl. Not only would it cut this down to a nice readable couple of lines, but you could also generate a different list every time the web page was hit. That way, it would really poison the well.

      Spackler

      PS: Yes folks, right tool for the job. Not every job.

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. Obfuscated html by rsidd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I use html code in my email address on my web page, like this:

    &#114&#115idd&#64;yah&#111&#11 1.c&#111&#109

    Amazingly, not a single spammer has gotten hold of it yet, in over a year; whereas, unobfuscated
    addresses used only once, on mailing list archives for example, are picked up immediately.

    Obviously these spambots aren't so intelligent.

  35. this in nothing compared to hotmail! by Not+Public · · Score: 2, Interesting
    for reasons I won't elaborate- I wound up creating a Hotmail account.. the suprise that makes this article trivial is that there was blatant spam WAITING for me the first time I'd ever checked it- at confirmation! needless to say, it hadn't been posted on any web site, newsgroup or used in any electronic transaction prior. Hell, I hadn't even written it down on the napkin I was taken notes on yet! Within 5 MINUTES I had 4 spam mails in my inbox. By the time I had sent a message to their support folks (customer and tech, with full header info- who STILL haven't responded) I had 12.
    Obviously, its unusable. How many others have similar experiences?

    1. Re:this in nothing compared to hotmail! by q-soe · · Score: 2

      Your defenition of spam might be a bit off but i suspect you have NOT removed all the check boxes in your affiliates and hotmail partners section when you sign up.

      I have had the same hotmail for years and the only SPAM i get is about fake university degrees - alsways the same message but from different domains. I get more spam on my work account than my hotmail. far from being unusable i find it gets less spam than Altavista or Yahoo (which should be called spamhoo), the blocking in hotmail works pretty well as well.

      And as the spam in these accounts is sent to a preditcion list (john1@, john2@ and so on please indicate the address you chose (HINT : notpublic@hotmail would be a great way to collect spam) The point on these types of services is that if you want to avoid spam dont use a common address - hotmail and other free mail providers cannot defend against every spammer out there using a dictionary type list against them - they are just enetering name@hotmail.com over and over to get responses and as hotmail has so many clients an addres like mik12567@hotmail is as great a spam target as bob_smith

      Hotmail is a free service and thats what pisses me - its free so if you dont like it dont use it - its not like you have to - and as free services go its not bad for what you pay for it, or is it simply that its owned by Microsoft ?

      id mark you down as a troll if i had any points left

      --
      I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
  36. Submitter Must Believe Story by Merry_B.Buck · · Score: 2

    ...the article submitter didn't use an email address link on his name.

  37. Why can't we just beat spammers? by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 2

    We should have hunting parties and every 3rd tuesday of the month go hunting down spammers and beat the tar out of them...

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Why can't we just beat spammers? by Technician · · Score: 2

      Just like some spamming is illegal, but only if you get caught. ;-)

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  38. ISPs / hosts selling e-mail addresses? by aussersterne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The following experiences have led me to wonder whether my ISP (AT&T Broadband) or my Web host (Doteasy) are selling e-mail addresses to spammers as they are created:

    1. Created a new e-mail account for a friend at my doteasy domain. I am the only owner of the domain ever, and have held it for years. The e-mail address had never existed before. About 12 hours later, while helping my friend to configure outlook express to check the account, I was surprised to discover two pieces of SPAM already in the account. This is a new address that has never been used or given to anyone, ever.

    2. After the AT&T @Home to AT&T Broadband fiasco, new e-mail addresses had to be created. One of the accounts I created (and did not use for anything) got spam within hours of its being created. Here again, this e-mail address had never been supplied to anyone but AT&T Broadband, in the process of creating it.

    My reluctant conclusion (unless someone can explain some other solution to me) is that both ISPs and Web hosts routinely place e-mail addresses they host on lists which are sold to spammers, I guess as a way to supplement the revenue stream.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re: ISPs / hosts selling e-mail addresses? by elemental23 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Highly unlikely.

      Spammers routinely rotate domain names on their address lists, for one thing. Say, if you have bob@example.com, joe@example.com, etc, it's likely these addresses will also exist @example.org. Change the example domains to @aol.com and @msn.com, each with millions of active mailboxes, and you've got a pretty good chance of hitting a high number of people. Change the domains to any domain you can find, regardless of size, you'll hit some (albiet not as many). Don't worry about the bad addresses bouncing, just forge someone else's return address and you won't have to deal with it (another common practice).

      Another method they use is a dictionary attack type of thing, where they'll try random combinations of names, initials, numbers, etc, in the hopes of finding live mailboxes.

      Gah, now I'm getting all pissed off about it. Bastards.

      --
      I like my women like my coffee... pale and bitter.
    2. Re:ISPs / hosts selling e-mail addresses? by rnicey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They don't need to, their own incompetence gives away your email address for free.
      I used to be a media1 (now ATT I believe) customer and logged into one of their big sun boxes for my free 5MB website via ftp.

      cd ../..
      ls -l

      50,000 directory listings later I'm almost in tears. Simply add @mediaone.net to them and you've got a really saleable list. Tech support couldn't even understand what I was saying and I didn't want to push it, you never know what these stupid companies will accuse you of.

    3. Re:ISPs / hosts selling e-mail addresses? by armb · · Score: 2

      > but, sending it to a bunch of students? they dont really expect to get any money from us do they?

      That's one of the reasons spam is so irritating. It's cheaper for them to spam everyone they can that filter likely prospects, so that's what they do. The companies selling lists advertize the size of the list, not how selective it is.

      --
      rant
  39. Spamido - Poison their lists by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 2

    http://www.yelm.freeserve.co.uk/spamido/

    To catch the spammers, and:

    Vipuls Razor[1].

    http://razor.sourceforge.net/

    To report the spam to others and widen the protection once they've been caught.

    [1] Doesn't that just sound like a spell out of D&D?

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  40. Re:Hmm... by AntiNorm · · Score: 2

    Whenever I receive an email from a spammer with one of those "click here to remove your email" links, I paste it into the browser, feeding in uce@ftc.gov as the email instead. Since those forms just feed into the spammer's "sucker" lists, it saves me the trouble of having to forward the email to them - the spammers just do it for me. Hitting up uce@ftc.gov 19 times a day - lets see how quickly they're put outta business :)

    Most spammers with half a brain (not that they all have this...) either use programs that automatically filter out *.gov addresses, or even manually filter out the addresses themselves. Especially the more obviously bad-to-spam ones like uce@ftc.gov.

    --

    I pledge allegiance to the flag...
    of the Corporate States of America...
  41. Yes, or at least it used to. by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 1997, I worked for a very small travel company that decided to try its hand at SPAM. Of course, take this anecdote for what it's worth (it *was* five years ago).

    They set up a small server that would just browse around the Web and usenet harvesting e-mail addresses wherever they could be found. The first week they sent out about 80,000 pieces of e-mail per day. They got tons and tons of hate mail in return but also a few hits. The first day, there were about 60 sales of a $69.99 "travel club membership" product (essentially a hotel and airline coupon book), and by that Friday they were up to over 200 sales a day thanks to the SPAM. Totals for the week were something like 350,000 e-mails sent and 900 sales for a total of about $63,000 in revenue that week thanks to SPAM. The coupon book itself wasn't all that expensive -- the deals were promotional and each book only cost the company something like $12.00, so the net was around $52,000 for the week. Not bad for a computer sitting in the corner with a $100 piece of software -- this likely explains why spammers stay at it.

    I left shortly thereafter so I don't really know whether they "stuck with it" or not, but it obviously can generate sales.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  42. Open Relay Mail Servers... by Hyped01 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On our networks, logging for almost two dozen domains, the largest source of spam via "Open Relay Mail Servers" is Hotmail. These emails are being sent via other servers, and mass mailed via hotmail servers being used to relay them. Hotmail's responses to the numerous complaints? "We'll cancel that user's account..." Often though it's not the user at fault, since you dont even need a valid Hotmail address to do this. So, even with notifying them of the real problem (open servers) and showing them headers that confirm it, they do nothing. Our incoming spam would drop by over 45% if they'd fix it. - Rob

    --

    WebMaster:
    BinFeeds
    XXX Thumbnailed Image Newsgroups but

    1. Re:Open Relay Mail Servers... by buss_error · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or simply configure your MTA to reject hotmail.com, with a message to get a Yahoo account to mail your domain. That'd work too. Of course, MS will scream if you are a moderate to large ISP.

      --
      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    2. Re:Open Relay Mail Servers... by artemis67 · · Score: 2

      Blocking a particular web mail domain might work if you only have a personal domain that you receive mail at, but that won't fly at 99% of businesses.

  43. Matches my experience with Hotmail by stph · · Score: 3, Informative

    This report matches my own experience. While at a public library awhile back, I opened a hotmail account in order to mail a few URLs to my home account. I did nothing consciously to advertise this account other than the default hotmail settings. Out of curiosity, I checked this account the following day and had 20 SPAM advertisements. So much for privacy on the web. By the end of the week, I had received just under a hundred messages, all to an account I had never actively given out. Turns out it was those account defaults that bit me. Hotmail automatically publishes your account on their directory, to make it possible for other Hotmail members to find your address. Sigh....

    1. Re:Matches my experience with Hotmail by xX_sticky_Xx · · Score: 3, Informative

      After having my Hotmail account for 2 or so years I have finally received my first piece of spam in it. This was quickly followed by another, leading me to guess that it's making the rounds now. In setting up accounts for other people in the past, I've noticed that by far the biggest spam magnets are addresses that have numbered extensions. A numbered extension means that the first part of the address is already in use, therefore it's a simple matter of just putting an x=x+1 function into the mailer once you have found a legitimate address.

      --

      ---

      I didn't want to leave this space blank.
  44. Re:DMCA: Can it be leveraged here? by Dwonis · · Score: 2
    So suddenly, the spammer is using information gained by illegally circumventing an encryption device (illegal if they haven't been granted a license to do so, right?). Hence, the spammer is in violation of the DMCA.

    It's an access control device, not an encryption device, but that works well, because that's what the DMCA says, anyway.

    Of course, the DMCA will be gone or severely amended in a few years anyway, so I wouldn't rely on it too much.

  45. Re:Does SPAM work? - Yes by Dwonis · · Score: 2
    Spammers seem to be happy with the sub-1 percentile range. How do you fight that?

    Do a study on the statistics of how many enemies are made by spamming. I, for instance, will never buy something from an entity that spams. Period. I'm sure there are others who do the same.

  46. Re:Hmm... by suwain_2 · · Score: 2
    I forget the URL, but I saw a cool program a while ago...

    Essentially, it was a simple CGI script. The author had 'links' to it, with no text between the and tags, so a normal broswer wouldn't display it. Most bots, however, would pick up on the link, and go there.

    The link was to a CGI script, which would take the visitor's domain name, and do a whois lookup on it, and extract the administrative/technical addresses given.

    It would then translate them to an IP address, making it less likely to be filtered out by the bot.

    As a result, a lot of spammers started spamming their ISPs, who were listed as technical consultants.

    Perhaps someone can paste the link?

    --
    ________________________________________________
    suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  47. Why not.... by malkman · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think we could combine the technologies outlined in the article below this (laser of death) with the problems in this article (spammers)! Think of the possibilities!

    --

    Robort knows all.
  48. Took me two weeks by Com2Kid · · Score: 2

    This e-mail address here was not up on any site for years (well, before it was @Home.com, but still,) and I got a grand total of, err, 3 spam messages over the course of 3 or 4 years.

    I put it up just here on /. and it took me two weeks to get anything.

    During those first two weeks it was not even obscusicated at all. In fact since selecting to use /.'s automatic obscurification(?) routine the amount of spam I am receiving has INCREASED, leading me to believe that some of the trolls likely keep up with the latest methods and likely go about and purposely harvest the e-mail address's from people who use the obscusification option on /.

    Err, spellcheck just choked on my message, and google cannot even figure out some of those mystery words. Screw it, good luck reading the above. :)

  49. One guy? by blair1q · · Score: 5, Funny

    One guy is the source of all the spam on the Internet?

    I say we've found a perfect target for testing that AC-130 Death Ray.

    --Blair

  50. I use it by macdaddy · · Score: 2

    I put it on all of my webpages in tiny white text somewhere. I also put in spamtrap addresses in the same manor that auto-forward to that address. It's something I recommend to *EVERYONE*.

  51. Bullying? Harrassing? by Arker · · Score: 2

    Just how do they bully or harrass you?


    Yeah, they aren't my favourite phone calls either, but calling it "bullying" or "harrassing" is either rhetorical extravagance or a revelation of a serious mental problem on your part. It's a freakin phone call. Harrassment is possible, but if they're seriously harrassing you there are ways to deal with that - and I've never even heard of that happening. What on earth would they have to gain? Harrassment doesn't get sales. And to bully you would require that they could actually do something to threaten you with, they can't, they're a voice on the other end of a phone, they can't hurt you.


    I get telemarketer calls all the time. It usually goes like this. Pick up the phone, listen to spiel long enough to determine I am not interested (3-4 seconds) - interrupt and say "sorry, not interested, better luck next call" and hang up. Once in awhile someone actually calls with something I'm even interested in (promotional offer on something I'm thinking about buying already.) Either way, there's no bullying or harrassment. And, most importantly, they call on their dime. The trouble with spammers is they call on my dime. I would never buy anything from a spammer, even if they did have a good deal on something I wanted. If a telemarketer called with such an offer I'd have no problem with it though.

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  52. Use admin@example.com addresses by Shiny+Metal+S. · · Score: 2
    I noticed, that spammers don't spam admin@example.com.

    First, it's pointless to collect such addresses, because most of domains should have valid admin localpart, so they could just send spam to admin at every domain in the world.

    But I suppose, that spammers have usually much more trouble with admin@example.com than with supermasterofdisaster199@example.com, so they just remove admin@* from their databases.

    Google search for my admin@ address gives about 1000 matches (I use it on many mailing lists and it's available in the mailing lists archives - probably the first place where spammers are looking for addresses), still I have not yet got a single spam to that address.

    I had an idea once to use addresses like admin@username.example.com or even admin@username.spam.example.com (spammers may remove addresses with spam or nospam etc. in them - just an idea, I had never checked it, but sounds reasonable).

    My another idea was using user@fbi.gov.example.com or something like that, in hope that spammers don't spam *.gov addresses, and also *.gov.* addresses (to match in other countries, like *.gov.pl).

    I haven't tested it because I see no need for it with my admin spam-proof address.

    So I suggest you to make a test with address admin@user.spam.abuse.gov.yourdomain and see if you get any spam there.

    --

    ~shiny
    WILL HACK FOR $$$

  53. How does this relate to open-relay by ahde · · Score: 2

    I know open relay mail servers are the bugbear of current anti-spam dogma, but all they do is provide an IP address/host name that isn't directly traceable to the sender, and (thusly blocked by the filter). I can't think of any way it is related to the speed with which email addresses are harvested (sold?) -- The easiest and probably most prevalent way for spammers to get emails is directly from ISPs. Most accounts come with webhosting or at the least a directory for storing email. These are usually readable. The next best thing is to run a dictionary against the mail server itself (or login) and record the positive hits. Web-spiders are used, but probably aren't a first resort.

  54. 900 numbers by gnovos · · Score: 2

    Let's say my phone number is 1-900-PAY-LOTS

    Oh, I should add, for you non-Americans, 900 numbers are charge-per-minutes things.

    --
    "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
  55. Stupid Idea by ewhac · · Score: 2

    Here's dumb idea. Write a bot that drives Hotmail's account creation pages and create a few hundred random accounts. Then just let them sit there; never use them, never delete anything (have the bot poll them just often enough to keep them from being deleted as inactive accounts).

    Suddenly, the problem becomes Micros~1's as their mail spools fill up with unread, undeleted mail. Once the problem of locating and deleting spam becomes their administrative headache, then maybe they'll do something about it.

    Schwab

  56. I tried a similar experiment with Hotmail . . . by micromoog · · Score: 2
    I was shocked at the amount of spam I was receiving on my Hotmail account. I created a new "test" account, with a less-then-obvious email address. I logged into this account once, then didn't send any email at all, didn't send any email to the account, and didn't publish the name of the address at all, anywhere.

    The account has been active for nearly three months now, and the spam count is up to 76 (!). The biggest slice goes to adult sites, with "make money fast" plans coming in second.

    So, my conclusion: Microsoft is actually selling its own Hotmail addresses to spammers of the worst kind. Bastards!

  57. Re:Graph by Technician · · Score: 2

    I wish your graph would show the signal to noise ratio. Knowing the total amount of trapped spam is one thing. How about a graph of rejected next to a graph of accepted. Is your spam over 50% of your total mail load? Spam/user/day would also be interesting. Great graphs!

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  58. Re:I'm Dealer Dan and I want to be spammed by Technician · · Score: 2

    So who's mailbox are you asking slashdot users to bombard? Is this is a social engineering mail attack? Hmmm? I hope you are proud you figured a way to mailbomb someone.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  59. Re:my little gift to SPAM'rs by pne · · Score: 2

    Now if I could just figure out a quick way to replace [127.0.0.1] with the IP of the visitors upstream provider

    Well, if you use Server-Side Includes, then you can at least get the IP of the machine itself:

    mailto:abuse@[<!--#echo var="REMOTE_ADDR" -->] (not tested)

    --
    Esli epei etot cumprenan, shris soa Sfaha.
  60. Re:Can we trick the harvesters/spammers? by Shiny+Metal+S. · · Score: 2
    I wonder how well the harvesters have thought out their coding in order to NOT spam the .gov addresses.
    I'll tell you how I did it in my harvester. ;) I'm kidding. But I sometimes wonder how much money I could make in the spamming business if I had no moral objections. Damn you moral objections!

    But seriously, I suppose they don't remove anything from harvested addresses. There are lots of obfuscated emails on the web, like user-no@spam.please-example.com or "contact shiny at key dot salt after cracking crypt(3)'ed plfeY04jaJnYI", where it would be almost impossible to to make a working algorithm understanding every method. But what is possible is collecting such addresses with SPAM in them for future manual processing, it could be even quite fast, if done well. However I don't thing they do this, for a simple reason: they don't want trouble makers. Trouble makers won't buy anything anyway and can cost them problems with ISPs, when they report every abuse. For the same reason there's no spam in my admin@ mailboxes.

    This is a slogan from Spam-Free Emailing Service : "No need to worry about losing your ISP or getting into trouble, we do the mailing to safe email addresses only." So i think they don't want to spam people who have NOSPAM in their email.

    For more spamming services, search Overture for "bulk email" and see such matches as e.g. "Increase Sales in 2002 with Bulk Email! 33-million e-mail addresses with order. Send up to 50,000 e-mails per hour with Prospect Mailer. Prospect Finder collects e-mail addresses based on keyword, profile or location. Free demos." for which people selling those emails are paying Overture $5.15/click (so don't forget to click them all every day!).

    (if you want to automate clicking check out the Spam Victims Revenge, a little script which search Overture and click links with random delays. I don't know if it works, I suppose that Overture has more sophisticated methods to count clicks, but it's a cool idea anyway. However the manual method has to work, so imagine slashdotting these paid links... it could be the end of spam forever...)

    But here's an idea: we can just call 1-800-359-0156 and ask if they have trouble makers on their lists...

    --

    ~shiny
    WILL HACK FOR $$$

  61. Re:Does SPAM work? - Yes by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 2
    You don't. It fights itself.

    Straight 'tragedy of the commons'. If .0001% of humans on planet earth need to make money by any means available no matter what, and they all spam, and they eventually become able to send 2 emails a second to everybody on the planet, then they _do_ make money up to the point where the system breaks down completely, and nobody can use email anymore because 99.9999999% of it is spam.

    It is possible that the whole concept of email will fail because of this: that any form of 'talk to people by offering them your contact information on a global scale' will fail. It simply depends on what the rules of the 'system' are, and what the limits of the system are. With computers and networking and delivery of information to be stored and read later, the limits are very extreme- it's not at all like trying to initiate chat or telemarketing where the victim can only be available to one attack at a time. Email stores: email networks, it's extremely vulnerable to this sort of thing.

    Personally, I make a point of not attempting to initiate business contacts by email for any reason whatsoever. I have a feeling this may be the future: that either the system will collapse completely under the mass of people with 'valid reasons' for wanting to make you an offer (do you know how many people I _could_ 'validly' make an offer via email, even in a rather targeted manner? Even on an entirely personal, one-hand-written-at-a-time basis?), or it will become so completely defensive that it's barely email anymore.

    It's not about how well you can 'spamproof' an email address. It's about how willing you are to be made offers by everybody else in 'contact distance' from you, in other words in the entire world.

    There are enough people out there in the big wide world that even if you only heard from people with stuff YOU WANT, or information YOU WANT, just only the stuff that you'd PAY for to hear about, even then you would still be overwhelmed completely and unable to function. 'Global village' means 'billions and billions of neighbors'...