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Time on "Pirates of Primetime"

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the polly-wanna-tivo dept.

binarydreams writes "Time has a pretty decent article on the capturing and trading of television shows on the Internet. The author gives a very good description of the capturing process, the people who enjoy the results, the future of PVR (focusing on the Replay 4000) and why the TV and movie industries are scared." This is just more of the TV industry coming to grips with what happened to the music industry. But it's important that the mainstream learns about it.

22 of 459 comments (clear)

  1. TV Shows being pirated by arnoroefs2000 · · Score: 5, Informative


    To get an idea of the amount of TV shows being pirated, and the speed at which they get ripped take a look here.

  2. Piracy? by toupsie · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The TV networks should be flattered that anyone would want to "pirate" their crap. It seems that as I get more channels on my cable system, the less quality I get. I can honestly say I do not watch one network show during PrimeTime outside of Enterprise and the Simpsons.

    Its gotten so bad, I actually watched a History Channel show on the history of hand tools over the shows that were on CBS, NBC, Fox and ABC and I wouldn't even know what to use those hand tools for! Once the Olympics go off the air, I most likely won't be watching NBC anytime soon.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    1. Re:Piracy? by mblase · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The TV networks should be flattered that anyone would want to "pirate" their crap.

      You're willfully missing the point. It's not popularity that makes money for the networks, it's advertising, which online pirates strip out, or VHS/DVD purchases, which *probably* aren't being made.

      Unlike MP3 swapping, there's a HUGE difference between watching a quarter-screen pixelated copy of a show and seeing it on my 32" television, but that's clearly not a big deal for many viewers, and in any case, it WILL change as technology and bandwidth progresses.

      The networks are losing money on this, and that's why they're upset. They don't care if you watch it, they only care if you watch it with the commercials in.

    2. Re:Piracy? by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
      > The TV networks should be flattered that anyone would want to "pirate" their crap. It seems that as I get more channels on my cable system, the less quality I get. I can honestly say I do not watch one network show during PrimeTime outside of Enterprise and the Simpsons.

      And that is the fundamental problem with the TV networks.

      In the 50s and 60s, you watched networks. Just as there were Ford people and there were Chevy people, there were people who watched "NBC" or "CBS" or "ABC".

      Today, I don't know anyone who gives a rat's fried patoot what network, nor even what channel, their programming is on. We watch shows, not networks.

      And that's why the woman in the article won't pay for HBO. She doesn't want "HBO". She only wants to watch "Sex in the City", and if she could pay $1/month to watch 1 hour of HBO's programming (that is, the new episode of "Sex in the City") a week, she would.

      But she can't. Because HBO doesn't work like that. Because the cable system doesn't work like that. The whole notion of "broadcasting" (and this includes "niche channels") is that you fill the pipe 24/7 with content, charge your viewers for all that content, even though they only want one or two shows you offer.

      It's not quite the same as the RIAA model of "put one good song on the album, the rest can be filler", because your idea of filler might be my idea of content. (That is, some folks watch highbrow channels for the Shakespeare, others for the war documentaries, still others for the Red Dwarf reruns ;-)

      But the practical effect is the same -- an end user buys a subscription to a channel in order to get the hour or two of "good stuff" per week that they care about.

      Cable makes it worse, of course, in that underlying technical restrictions have created buyers used to buying "packages" of 10-20 channels at a time in order to get the 2-3 channels that carry the 4-5 shows you watch. It's not like buying a whole CD to get the one song you want, it's like buying a whole box set!

      Now comes the 'net - we bypass the high-level middlemen (cable/satellite operators) and the low-level middlemen ("channels") to allow an individual to get the product ("shows") they actually want. In effect, the 'net makes the traditional distribution system ("shows" aggregated onto "channels" and sold in "packages of channels") obsolete.

      The woman who says "Fuck that!" and downloads her Sex in the City isn't saying "Fuck copyright".

      She's saying "Fuck the dumb distribution system".

  3. Relative statistics? by mydigitalself · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it pried open a Pandora's jewel box: Last year CD sales declined for the first time in a decade.

    it would be interesting to see the % fall in this versus the general economic downturn. otherwise its a meaningless statement.

  4. A missed opportunity by RalphSlate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am against pirating stuff en-masse (i.e. Napster, posting on websites). One-off trading shouldn't be a big concern to the content holders. If I tape a show and give it to a friend, yes, that's illegal, but it's essentially insignificant because it's usually more trouble than its worth, its uncommon, and its a drop in the bucket. I doubt I'd ever be prosecuted for loaning a copy of Star Trek that was just on yesterday to a friend who forgot to tape it.

    However, the prevalence of trading shows that there is a demand for this stuff. Why not make it available for sale? Who says that shows need to be off-the-air for a couple of years before they're made available? Who says that only the most popular shows should be made available?

    Why isn't the distribution process streamlined so that printing 5000 DVDs for the 5000 people who want to see "Cop Rock" is still profitable?

    There are plenty of TV shows that I would gladly purchase on DVD. I was happy to see "Buffy the Vampire Slayer, season 1" on DVD -- not because I want to buy it, but because I'm hoping that means that shows like "Kojak, Season 1" make it.

    I suspect that the media companies are at a crossroads. Do they sell their content and possibly ruin the repeat-TV market, or do they hold it close and risk people trading it among themselves?

    Ralph Slate

    1. Re:A missed opportunity by Nurlman · · Score: 5, Informative
      Why not make it available for sale? Who says that shows need to be off-the-air for a couple of years before they're made available? Who says that only the most popular shows should be made available?

      Syndicators, that's who. The real money in producing t.v. shows is getting enough episodes of a show ordered that you can then turn around and sell them as a syndication package.

      Think about it-- the major networks really only supply prime-time programming-- 8p.m. to about midnight. Everything else that shows on network affiliates (and non-affiliate stations) is either locally generated programming or syndicated stuff. That's why you get The Simpsons or ST:TNG showing every day on a given channel-- because the channel bought the syndication rights for that package of shows. Syndications of popular shows can reap a bloody fortune in revenues for the production company-- in the hundreds of millions of dollars for a reasonably successful comedy. (Typically because an affiliate in every market will buy a syndication package for a successful show, rather than having the network pay for it once for first-run.)

      Anyway, the reason shows aren't released to video shortly after they finish their first-run is because the money to be made in syndication is so staggering. If Paramount sold ST:TNG videos of the most recent season's episodes 6 months after the end of each season, they'd have a much harder time pitching the entire series in syndication to the local stations-- after all, the fans of the show (who translate to eyeballs watching the local station's advertising) already have permanent copies of the episodes that are being offered as a syndication package.

      That's why you're only seeing Seasons 1 & 2 of The Simpsons on DVD now: because the syndication package that features those episodes doesn't command much of a price from local stations any more. Fox (or, more accurately, Gracie Films, the producer of the show) waits to release videos until it has gotten maximum value from syndication of those episodes because syndication offers a bigger revenue stream than video sales. For shows that don't (or won't) make it into syndication (typically, you need in the neighborhood of 100 episodes or about 5 seasons to make it attractive to an affiliate who will run 5-7 shows a week), a video release can occur much faster. (Witness South Park, which Comedy Central knows damn well won't run on a broadcast station because of its content. You can buy videos of SP now, because those sales aren't cannibalizing potential syndication revenue.) Of course, if a show wasn't popular enough to survive for 100 episodes, it's unlikely to have a big enough market to make a video release financially viable. There may be 10,000 people who loved the live-action Tick series, but even if all 10,000 people buy the DVD set, will that cover the cost of pressing and marketing the discs?

  5. Copyright Trouble Of The Week by wiredog · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's Dvorak's latest...

    --

    Best Slashdot Co
  6. Re:Big Pussy? by toupsie · · Score: 5, Funny
    WTF does that mean? Could someone explain to us non-Americans.

    It refers to the expanding waist lines of women that watch too much network television in America. We are getting too fat and that line is just a obscene, negative way to refer to these obese women.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
  7. Why is the industry scared? by Navius+Eurisko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IMO, there are two types of people who trade tv shows:

    1. People who have already seen the show and want to view it again at a later date. These people have already seen the ads from the commercial sponsers from the first airing.

    2. People who are the fan base of the show. These people archive the episodes for their own enjoyment. These people also probably view the shows during their original airing rather than waiting for the show to appear somewhere over the internet.

    Both populations of people have probably seen the original airing of the program with the commericals in place. The only valid concern I can think of from the TV industry is that sponsers may not pay for ads during reruns of a particular show if viewers already have copies of it to watch. But how many of us sit down to watch a rerun of a episode we have already seen? Unless it rocked, most of us I imagine probably end up surfing the TV during breaks anyways. Reruns really only serve the population of people who didn't see the episode in the original airing. It seems to me that the industry wants to keep this population away from recorded TV shows.

  8. A simple solution ... by HerringFlavoredFowl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A simple solution would be for the TV Network's to make the shows avaliable (with adds) on a bunch of fast servers. For pay per view type programming, have a subscription style service ... All they need to do is follow the p0rn industries model and they will be rolling in the dough

    Trying to enforce at what time a person watches a show is silly. Not to mention controlling and repressive.

    TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken

    --
    TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
  9. Just? by tcd004 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "This is just more of the TV industry coming to grips with what happened to
    the music industry. But it's important that the mainstream learns about it."

    Yeah, that music industry thing was no big deal.

    tcd004

  10. Re:Oh... by uebernewby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK, so what about this: I live in the Netherlands, Enterprise doesn't air here until next year or so. I do, however, have a broadband connection. Guess what? I want to see that show so bad I'll just download it two days after it airs in the US. Illegal? Yes. Would I do the same thing if they'd give up that stupid "release in the US first, then UK, then rest of the world" policy of theirs and had Enterprise in NL, even if were, say, two weeks behind schedule? Probably not, as I prefer to watch TV on my TV.

    --

    News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
  11. As the owner of Planet Replay, my views. by Tide · · Score: 5, Informative


    I was interviewed for this article last week and I was sorely disappointed to read how sensationalistic is was towards sharing shows with the ReplayTV 4000 likening us to Napster. Napster traded what was known copyrighted material, bought by home users and illegally copied and sent to others. RTV on the other hand is basically a digital VCR, or timeshifting device. It is currently legal to timeshift, send to friends, and receive shows this way. No different than user a standard VCR and even slower depending on file size. The biggest complainers should be advertisers who pay big money to be on Friends. But really,I don't agree with that either. They take a chance that I will see there ad anyways. There is nothing preventing me with regular TV to just leave the room or turn off the TV when ads come on.

    Check out my site Planet Replay for more information on Replay show sharing.

    --

    People think Microsoft is the answer. Microsoft is just the question, "No" is the answer.
  12. C&D letter from the MPAA by xjosh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is a nice letter that someone from the MPAA sent to my news provider regarding the posting of a par file to a newsgroup. I'm still trying to get my head around how parity data for a part of a capture can be construed as copyrighted and infringing.

    Perhaps instead of posting shows, 60-120 people should independantly review the shows and include a clip in their review.

    Begin message:
    ----------------
    From: MPAA@copyright.org
    To: dmca@giganews.com
    Subject: [DMCA #1604] Unauthorized Distribution of Copyrighted Motion Pictures (Reference#: XXXXXX)
    Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:23:00 (GMT)
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    MOTION PICTURE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, INC.
    15503 VENTURA BOULEVARD
    ENCINO, CALIFORNIA 91436

    UNITED STATES
    Anti-Piracy Operations
    PHONE: (818) 728 - 8127
    Email: MPAA@copyright.org

    Tuesday, February 19, 2002

    Name: dmca@giganews.com
    E-mail: dmca@giganews.com
    ISP: Giganews

    Via Fax/Email

    RE: Unauthorized Distribution of Copyrighted Motion Pictures
    Site/URL: usenet://xjosh@GigaNews.Com/ATTN Mike - Need anyall of 24 12AM-1AM - 24.1x03.2AM - 3AM.SVCD.HawgSmacker.p02
    Reference#: XXXXXX

    Date of Infringement: 2/15/2002 4:32:43 PM GMT

    Dear dmca@giganews.com:

    The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) represents the following motion picture production and distribution companies:

    Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.
    Disney Enterprises, Inc.
    Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
    Paramount Pictures Corporation
    TriStar Pictures, Inc.
    Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation
    United Artists Pictures, Inc.
    United Artists Corporation
    Universal City Studios, Inc.
    Warner Bros., a Division of Time Warner Entertainment Company, L.P.

    We have received information that you are offering Internet access service to the above referenced account holder, who has utilized your services to post downloads to Usenet newsgroups of copyrighted motion picture(s) including such title(s) as:

    24 (TV)

    The distribution of unauthorized copies of copyrighted motion pictures constitutes copyright infringement under the Copyright Act, Title 17 United States Code Section 106(3). This conduct may also violate the laws of other countries, international law, and/or treaty obligations.

    We request that you immediately do the following:

    1) Take appropriate action against the account holder under your Abuse Policy/Terms of Service Agreement; and
    2) Disable access from your own servers to the particular posting(s) identified above. (See also header information attached below.)

    By copy of this letter, the owner of the above referenced Internet site and/or email account is hereby directed to cease and desist from the conduct complained of herein.

    On behalf of the respective owners of the exclusive rights to the copyrighted material at issue in this notice, we hereby state, pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Title 17 United States Code Section 512, that we have a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owners, their respective agents, or the law.

    Also pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we hereby state, under penalty of perjury, under the laws of the State of California and under the laws of the United States, that the information in this notification is accurate and that we are authorized to act on behalf of the owners of the exclusive rights being infringed as set forth in this notification.

    Please contact us at the above listed address or by replying to this email should you have any questions. Kindly include the above noted Reference # in the subject line of all email correspondence.

    We thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Your prompt response is requested.

    Respectfully,

    Hemanshu Nigam
    Vice President and Director
    Worldwide Internet Enforcement
    Usenet Incident Summary

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  13. Re:TV Shows being pirated - what's really scary by ip_vjl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If I were a network executive I'd definitely be scared by that list ... why?

    It's not as much the fact that people are pirating, but that these people would rather download the numerous episodes of ALF than watch what's currently on TV.

    Hollywood has been leading the best prevention against piracy by producing stuff that nobody would want to own in the first place. Who knows, maybe writing a good script would be seen as a breach of the DMCA because it would promote the desire to own and copy.

  14. We are not the customer by Silverhammer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As someone else noted, in the current scheme of television production and distribution, we the viewers are NOT the customer. We are the product that is harvested, packaged, and delivered to the real customer: the advertisers.

    Once you understand that, the rest makes perfect sense.

  15. Re:Paradox by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The problem with your theory is costs, and the (dead tree) magazine industry has a similar situation. It costs more to produce an episode of a given show, or pay for the rights to air a given sporting event etc., than the potential audience alone will bear. So they need the advertising subsidies to reduce the costs to the viewers.

    I don't know what the figures are for the studios, but I did see a comment in a UK PC magazine once that to produce the same content without any advertising at all would increase the shelf price from £5 to £25. Quite a hike. Would you be prepared to see your cable/satellite bill go up by the same percentage just to lose the adverts? Plus the additional amount to cover the costs of those who say stuff it and cancel their subscriptions?

    I'm guessing that for the majority of viewers the answer will be a resounding "NO WAY!"

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  16. You forgot number three by mblase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IMO, there are two types of people who trade tv shows

    ...and a third: people who don't get the channels, or can't rent or afford to buy the DVDs, but want to watch the shows all their friends are raving about.

    Don't pretend that third group doesn't exist. The article mentions "Sex in the City" and "Friends," but if you go online you don't have to look far to find shows and movies that are only available in recorded format. People wouldn't be swapping ripped copies of anime imports or "Shrek" -- not available on TV but expensive on tape/DVD -- if that was the case.

  17. Re:Looks like they have been r00ted. by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The MPAA counted more than 5,000 locations on the Internet last year where people could download episodes for free."

    ... as opposed to watching the broadcast for free?

    The networks already got their money, and they didn't get it from the viewers. The advertisers paid for the broadcast and there shouldn't be anything more to ask for (unless they want to take the position of cable companies where they charge both the advertier and the viewer). If the networks don't feel like they're getting enough money then they should be talking to the people that actually pay for it, and if the advertisers won't pay any more than that's your problem, not mine.

    The shows are being broadcast whether I like them or not. My TV received those broadcasts but either wasn't on or was focused on a different channel at the time. I also have the right to record such broadcasts whether I watch it at the time of recording or not. While it's true that it's copyrighted matieral, giving the networks the ability to control what they themselves distributed to anybody and everybody free of charge is ridiculous. If this keeps up will the networks attempt to have a say in the affairs of TV and VCR manufacturers to "help the networks defend their rights?"

    Consumers don't want to play by the network's rules. In a capitalist society it is the network that must adapt to the situation, not the consumer.

  18. Anime too by cryptochrome · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The situation is similar for anime here in the US. Rather than waiting years for a particular show or movie to show up (IF it shows up) in the US, independent groups of fans capture, subtitle, and distribute them for free.

    They generally dub to high bitrate and high resolution DivX files, which are viewable on most any computer that has the processing power for it, but still not the same as doing it on TV. The quality of the subtitles has also become increasingly good - even professional - over the years. Of course these are watchable for anyone that speaks english, and there are other groups who work with other languages too. In fact the most difficult part is the trading and distribution of these files, which is pretty haphazard and often results in corrupted files since there is no error checking and correction, and the fact that you watch them on the computer rather than the TV (which is acceptable to many).

    So the moral of the story is? TV, movie, and video producers - get your asses together and make your products available to anyone and everyone in the world at the same price simultaneously (within a week of each other), or quit your bitching. It ain't piracy if it ain't available in the first place. And if you don't want to put money into a translation, give people some way to add independent subs/dubs to it.

    --

    ---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?

  19. Creative Business Models by FreeUser · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A simple solution would be for the TV Network's to make the shows avaliable (with adds) on a bunch of fast servers.

    Absolutely right.

    The reason the Copyright Cartels (specifically the Television, Movie, and Recording industries) are running scared is because none of their current leadership has any skills at running a business in anything other than a coercive, cartel form.

    Alternatives do exist, but they either don't have the imagination to explore them, or are so addicted to their own coercive power that they would rather destroy the most promising, democratizing and empowering technology to emerge in the last 100 years, the Internet, and our constitutional rights to free expression, rather than change their business models.

    What business model(s) would work, you ask? For television (and, for that matter, movies) offering commercia laden television programs for free, exactly as they do now. Only, except requiring cable providors or broadcast stations to disseminate their product, they can do so via the internet (and without middlemen).

    Offer the same content for a nominal fee (say $1.00, or 1 Euro) without any commercial content.

    Mark each downloaded copy with registration information (the user's name and IP address they downloaded to). That is all the copy protection that is required, and it works beautifully (if not perfectly) in the digital world of software. People are much more reluctant to share illegal copies of software that are marked with their identity in some fashion than they are anonymous products (such as clean rips from a firewire port).

    None of this is perfect, but it is very workable and people would eat it up. Their revinues would, if anything, increase over time.

    Similar approaches could be used by the recording industry, if they were intelligent enough to get their heads out of their asses and stop persuing copy prevention schemes which have been demonstrated both empirically and mathematically to NOT work, and instead embed the purchaser's name and/or ip in the audio stream itself.

    Unfortunately this requires imagination, flexibility, and both business and technical savvy, something that is woefully lacking at the upper levels of the copyright cartels. They would rather simply purchase laws from our cheaply sold congress, and shred the constitution in the process.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy