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It's (Almost) Hammer Time
thelizman writes "C|Net is catching up on the buzz with AMD's Hammer line of processors. Of note in the article is how AMD demonstrated their 64-bit contender using Linux and Windows, instead of just Windows. In reality, Linux will likely have 64 bit applications more quickly than Microsoft, and will see use on this processor more readily than your average WinTel machine, so you know...like...it only makes sense."
come with an ice pick? Cuz you're gonna need a solid block of ice to cool the damn thing. It IS an AMD, afterall.
The 64-bit x-86 hasn't been welcomed as warmly, primarily due to backward compatibility issues. Definitely having the source and being able to recompile Linux apps will give the Linux folks a jump out the gate for 64-bit apps.
:)
In general, I doubt strongly this is a AMD vs Intel issue, either. This is a Windows (and their legacy users) vs Linux (and their overly prideful users that must find every method to berate windows).
You can't touch this!
Talisman
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only versions of windows that I know of that are 64-bit are the 64-bit WinXP and maybe versions of NT (but those were probably for Alpha anyway), which are now outdated.
There are probably enough people like me that don't want to upgrade to WinXP just for 64-bit (I don't like lots of things about XP, but thats my opinion). So it would seem that Linux with Cross-platform portability (hence, x86-64) will have a better chance at propagating (spelling?) itself in to this market faster than windows.
Just my opinions, not to be taken as fact.
I do like the fact that AMD is planning on using "a smooth migration path to the 64-bit software of tomorrow", so we wont have to rewrite much of anything. Besides, I still like my old DOS games
LOTR: Elijah Wood is a munchkin asshat. Yes, asshat. LOL.
I don't do much 3D rendering other than some gaming action, and my multimedia is limited to playing some MP3s while I'm coding with vim. Are there any other compelling reasons for a 64-bit arch? I suppose I could load more data in registers, storing two 32-bits into one 64-bit register.... but i'm drawing a blank... someone help :)
The more you know, the less you understand.
Argh, is this going to add yet ANOTHER set of addressing modes? Now we will have:
mov ah, #1
mov ax, #1
mov eax, #1
mov eeax, #1
Seriously, I wonder how they have modified the register addressing field of the instructions to handle this.
I'm not sure which is better journalism though... on one end, you're looking more professional by not having stupid 14-year-old-girl talk on the front page. On the other end, you're cutting up someone's quote!
I'd rather have it look nicer.
Berto
Kevin McGrath (AMD senior tech) gave a great presentation at Stanford on the Hammer and how AMD took on many design concepts of the X86-64 architecture. This was probably one of the more informative lectures I have seen on the topic. The video is long though http://murl.microsoft.com/videos/stanford/ee380b/0 00927_ee380_OnDemand_100_100K_320x240.htm
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
AMD seemed for a while to be winning the price point war, getting to market at an extremely competitive cost for cutting edge hardware. According to my recent price-watching, however, this advantage seems to be diminishing, as Intel's lately been getting more competitive in their pricing in reaction to this. Maybe they're just going after the next buzzword in hopes of beating Intel at it's own game.
AMD: Takes an existing archetecture and extends it with an excellent talent pool of engineers that speak in 64 bit.
Intel: Buys its way out of a lawsuit for stealing 64bit microcode from the DEC Alpha, then buy's the Alpha from Compaq to discontinue it. Then create a brand new 64 bit chip using their own limited talent, while shoving the existing 64 bit platfrom into an early grave.
Does this make sence to anyone? Alpha's rock, and they have been 64 bit for years. There already was versions of Win2k, Linux and Unix in addition to major apps like SAP and Oracle tuned for the platform.
x86-64, which is what AMD is shipping with Hammer *IS* a hybrid. It is a x86 processor with 64 bit instructions added on top of the 32 bit ones. Like Intel's extension of x86 from 8 bit to 16 and later 32 bitness. It allows backwards functionality, and forward extensibility through 64 bit applications that might need it. I think it's a much more intelligent solution as there are a lot of applications that don't need 64-bitness...
Actually the Hammer series adds 8 more general purpose registers and more SSE registers. Read up on X86-64, there's more to it than just going 64-bit. For example, there's better support for relocatable code (i.e. shared libraries).
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The PR is vague enough to be interpreted as "running a 64-bit version of Linux as well as [plain old 32 bit] Microsoft Windows". I've asked AMD flat out, and they will not commit to saying yes, Win64 will be coming to the Hammer party. MS certainly haven't mentioned it, AFAIK.
As a film/video FX developer, we'd love the massive memory space & 64 bit registers that Hammer brings. But as a [currently] Windows-only app, Linux-64 isn't helpful (except possibly for a few customers' render farms).
Our code is 64-bit clean, we have a working Itanium port, but we haven't sold a copy yet. We have customers who need multigigabytes of RAM & the speed of an Athlon to process it all, yet don't have the spare kilobux to justify dedicating a dual Itanium to a single app (it's all but useless for 32 bit apps at Winzip level & up).
So... rumours, anyone? Hard facts? Tidbits, gossip, insider info?
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Well the normal could do fine with a pentium 200 and 64 megs of ram.
64bit is for the power user, people who want gigs of ram, huge harddrives, people who trade media like dvd movies, who edit movies, who play games, who run alot of programs at the same time, or who just want more speed, they want state of the art.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
A short list of desktop applications that could reasonably use multi-gigabytes of RAM. These are all arguably "high-end" applications, but that goes with the territory:
1. Non-linear video & film editing:
Current video editing software can work from and to disk, but availability of more RAM will make it easier to do more sophisticated effects in real time.
2. Genome sequence analysis
Okay, not very many people will be doing this, but it IS a growing field, and people are doing the work on desktiop machines now (albeit slowly).
3. Modelling / CAD
You can never have too much memory in a CAD workstation.
4. Software development
Again, you can never have too much memory. More memory enables more agressive optimization, as well as supporting more productivity features in the IDE (like full source indexing). I have used toolsets that need 2+ GB of RAM to compile a relatively simple program (they swap now, of course).
So, probably not for Microsoft Word '03, but there are definitely applications for 64-bit computing out there other than servers.
-Mark
It's not just a simple matter for Intel to increase the Itanium's x86 performance. The reason it runs so slow is because it uses an emulation layer for x86 which is always going to be dog slow, the only way intel could fix it would be to do a major (as in almost complete) redesign. Hammer on the other hand can exicute x86 in hardware since it's 64-bit instruction set is a superset of x86. Itanium will likely never see the desktop, instead Intel will fork off another chip line for the consumer/workstation market (like the Pentium/Xeon lines today).
'640K^H^H^H^H 4 gigs is more memory than anyone will ever need.'
-Erik
Anandtech has posted an article with lots of information and pictures Right here.