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Sharpei Virus Written In C#

josepha48 points to a CNET article on a new worm written in C# and partly aimed at the .Net framework, excerpting: "On Friday, antivirus companies received a copy of a worm called Sharpei, which is partially written in Microsoft's newest computer language, C#, and designed to infect computers loaded with the .Net framework."

80 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. It's NOT a .NET virus! by Otis_INF · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's a worm spread by mail via Outlook 2000 or earlier (Outlook XP strips executables) or Outlook Express that will overwrite some .NET core components. (and only when the user is able to do that, thus has the right to overwrite the file).

    The virus is _NOT_ a .net program, it's NOT running on the .net platform and it's NOT messing around with files from managed code.

    --
    Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
    1. Re:It's NOT a .NET virus! by rjamestaylor · · Score: 5, Funny
      • The virus is _NOT_ a .net program, it's NOT running on the .net platform and it's NOT messing around with files from managed code.
      So, its a .NOT virus...
      --
      -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
    2. Re:It's NOT a .NET virus! by Masa · · Score: 5, Informative
      The virus is _NOT_ a .net program, it's NOT running on the .net platform and it's NOT messing around with files from managed code.

      Here is a description by F-Secure and it claims that one part of the virus is actually using .NET:

      http://www.fsecure.com/v-descs/blunt.shtml

    3. Re:It's NOT a .NET virus! by sheldon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is a difference between using something, and messing with something.

      The .Net framework files are digitally signed. If this virus were to try to infect the .Net framework it would not like that at all.

      Unless of course Verisign handed out the keys again. :-)

      Anyway, the /. Linux/anti-MS crowd needs to become a little bit more technically inclined. They're so damn gullible to articles like this.

  2. social engineering by hiroko · · Score: 5, Funny
    You've got to love the message in the email:
    Hey, at work we are applying this update because it makes Windows over 50% faster and more secure. I thought I should forward it as you may like it.
    --
    Just because you can't, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
    1. Re:social engineering by Shiny+Metal+S. · · Score: 5, Funny
      This is nothing! Have you heard about the "Don't F***ing Open Me!" Virus?
      E-mail inboxes were flooded with messages this morning as a new virus quickly spread around the world. Dubbed "Don't Fucking Open Me" by anti-virus researchers, the infected e-mail follows a similar course to other viruses and replicates by sending itself out to everyone in the infected computer's Outlook and Outlook Express address book. The virus also contains two different payloads: one version formats the hard drive and displays the message "This is for your own good"; the other payload creates random Power Point presentations in the "My Documents" folder.

      Savvy users can spot the virus by its subject which is "Don't Fucking Open Me" or by the attachment which is entitled "Don't_Fucking_Open_Me.exe".

      "This virus tricks the user with an old psychological tactic called reverse psychology. Apparently the curiosity created by the message has been too much for thousands of users," said anti-virus researcher Bob Atibop. According to Atibop, this isn't the first time reverse psychology has been used. In 1998, the "Don't Pee on Your Keyboard" worm caused a flood of damage.

      Researchers have seen large infection among AOL users and middle managers, the two largest concentrations of naive and inept computer users.

      Claudia Hawkins who was infected by the virus said, "My son told me not to open attachments, but.... I mean my MOM sent it! What if she was hurt?!?"

      Another infected user too embarrassed to reveal his name said, "I thought that there was no way that this could be a virus. What kind of stupid idiot virus writer would put a dumb title on it like that? No one would ever open something that says not to open it. The virus would never spread defeating the whole purpose of it."

      Experts advise extreme caution when opening messages entitled "Don't Fucking Open Me" or "Click Here for Cash and Virus Infection".

      --

      ~shiny
      WILL HACK FOR $$$

    2. Re:social engineering by Bodrius · · Score: 2

      Well, depending on which files it deletes and/or overwrites, it could be arguably correct.

      --
      Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
  3. Not sure I'd call this a .NET virus by wadetemp · · Score: 5, Interesting


    If the attachment is opened, then the worm uses the Outlook address book to send messages--with a copy of the virus attached--to every address in the book. It then deletes the e-mails from the sent folder and removes the copy of itself.


    .NET exe files won't run unless the framework is present. They are "dead" exes that do nothing when double clicked. So the question is... is the bulk mailer part native code or .NET code? Read on...


    On PCs loaded with Windows XP and other .Net-enabled computers, however, Sharpei would additionally infect files in four other folders. If those files were opened, the virus would run again.

    This *additonal* behavior that affects .NET enabled computers is the part that could possibly be written in C#, and it looks like it's not responsible for any of the bulk emailing... it just runs the native executable portion again, which does the bulk mailing. And by the way, XP is not .NET enabled. I think this is either a hoax or a very misunderstood virus.

    1. Re:Not sure I'd call this a .NET virus by muffen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This *additonal* behavior that affects .NET enabled computers is the part that could possibly be written in C#, and it looks like it's not responsible for any of the bulk emailing...

      You are correct, this is the only part that is written in .NET compiled down to MSIL. Here's a cut from the Symantec writeup: The replication code of the virus is written in C# and compiled to MSIL...

      The emailing routine is done by dropping a VBS file that enumerates the outlook addressbook sending an email to everyone in there.

      This is said to be the second virus that infects .NET files. The first one was W32.Donut (even though W32.Donut doesn't actually infect the MSIL part of the executable, but the one containing the normal X86 code).

      In my opinion, we still haven't seen the first *true* .NET virus. When there is a virus that infects the MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) code, then I think it qualifies as a .NET virus. All the .NET virus we have seen so far appear to be attempts by viruswriters to get media attention, and as we can see, it worked :-/

    2. Re:Not sure I'd call this a .NET virus by rfsayre · · Score: 2

      who could be sure?

      Microsoft has made a habit of calling everything it is releasing lately ".NET". If it infected Visual Studio, would it be a .NET virus? Face it, the MS definition is purposely nebulous, masking the fact that .NET is a Java clone.

  4. What about Java virii? by petree · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you actually step outside of the 'yet another microsoft virus' mindset you might be frightened more by the concept, although simple. Why hasn't someone (or has some one) created a virus that attacks the JRE. You could pretty well attack a large number of people by either A) attacking/modifying the JRE or B) Piggybacking java bytecode into other applications. Wouldn't one of these be just as damaging and at the current time even more wide-spread in their effect? Just a couple of thoughts.

    1. Re:What about Java virii? by InfoSec · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is that the JRE has a security manager which, unless the user mucks it up, won't allow virii to access the local machine or resources (i.e. address book).

      --

      Wherever you go, there I am...
    2. Re:What about Java virii? by jaavaaguru · · Score: 5, Informative

      The JRE lives in a directory where normal users don't have write permission to. This is definitely the case in UNIX/Linux and our Win NT based machines at home are also set up this way. If someone installs something into a directory that is world writable, then they should be prepared for these kind of things to happen. If an OS insists on putting important things in silly places, then maybe software manufacturers for that OS should make their users aware of this and possible change the permissions on directories after their software has installed? If Windows XP treats users as dumbasses, why should these same users be expected to know anything about securing their system?

    3. Re:What about Java virii? by JKR · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The problem is that the JRE has a security manager which, unless the user mucks it up, won't allow virii to access the local machine or resources (i.e. address book).


      What? Java provides a default SecurityManager object which allows pretty much anything. And anyway, if you can subvert the class loader (e.g. by providing your own) you can do anything you like. The only time you'll see a SecurityManager which does anything is inside a webbrowser.

      Besides the system policy file installed by default is pretty lax. I quote from the Java SDK docs:

      The java.policy file installed with the SDK grants all permissions to standard extensions, allows anyone to listen on un-privileged ports, and...


      Jon.

    4. Re:What about Java virii? by jsse · · Score: 2

      What? Java provides a default SecurityManager object which allows pretty much anything.

      Huh?
      Like?

      And anyway, if you can subvert the class loader (e.g. by providing your own) you can do anything you like. The only time you'll see a SecurityManager which does anything is inside a webbrowser.

      Can you show me how to subvert the class loader with Java itself?

      (I'm not bashing you opinion, I'm really asking the questions. Showing me the links is also welcome :)

    5. Re:What about Java virii? by sheldon · · Score: 2

      "Besides the system policy file installed by default is pretty lax."

      Microsoft has made the default system policy for .Net fairly strick. There was actually quite a lot of bitching about it on many .Net mailing lists because it made life more difficult for developers. But I suspect MS felt they could live with complaints of this nature, rather than make it too loose by default.

      For instance if you try to run any content off a network drive, it has no access to drives. I just tried it, and I can't even get a local directory listing. You just get a popup box warning that it can't do this.

    6. Re:What about Java virii? by Ayende+Rahien · · Score: 2

      That is good, there is a good security model in the basis of both .NET & NT, the problem is that the defualt permissions were always too lax, resulting in unsecure default installations, which not many bother/or had the knowledge to change.
      That is a re-assuring.

      --

      --
      Two witches watched two watches.
      Which witch watched which watch?
    7. Re:What about Java virii? by Ayende+Rahien · · Score: 2

      http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/articles/java.html

      Been there, done that, moved on...
      There is *nothing* in Java that prevents you from writing viruses if you're running a Java application.

      --

      --
      Two witches watched two watches.
      Which witch watched which watch?
  5. Re:You knew it was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Actually it is the AV researchers who give the name. Virus writers usually 'suggest' a name but this is almost never used. Usually we aim for a name that would piss off the writer.

  6. Who said it was a .NET virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's try your karma whoring strategy:

    It's NOT a pink elephant!

    Just trying to clear up a potential misunderstanding here: The Sharpei Virus is a worm spread by MAIL via Outlook. It has NOTHING to do with elephants, mammals in general, or any kind of pink lifeform. The virus may overwrite some files if the user has write access to them, but rest assured that you won't have to deal with 10,000 pounds of pink flesh suddenly appearing in your computer room.

    1. Re:Who said it was a .NET virus? by saintlupus · · Score: 3, Funny

      rest assured that you won't have to deal with 10,000 pounds of pink flesh suddenly appearing in your computer room.

      Ah, so the admin found his pants, then?

      --saint

  7. Read the technical details at Symantic by Carnage4Life · · Score: 5, Informative

    I just looked at the Symantec write up for W32.HLLP.Sharpei@mm and from what I read its primarily just another social engineering email-with-executable-attachment worm ("Please run this MSFT update") which happens to use C# in some of the code it runs after it has 0wn3d your machine.

    The fact that the worm tries to run a C# executable after it has already compromised the machine is not much of a technical feat since it could run anything including a Perl script, Java program, Lisp code, etc as long as the runtimes were available on the target machine.

    Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the opinions, wishes, strategies or intentions of my employer.

    1. Re:Read the technical details at Symantic by markmoss · · Score: 2

      So it doesn't exploit security holes in MS's new, barely finished .net framework. Instead, it exploits the gaping security holes which have remained in Outlook for years. This is a good thing???

  8. M$ doesn't call Sharpei a worm by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 5, Funny

    They prefer the term "a few wrinkles here and there"

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  9. VIrus in attachment by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is simply the old virus as attachment trick.

    And guess what? It's implemented in C#. And when run, it will screw up other folders on the system. Imagine, if you will, a computer language, somewhere, that somehow, could not be used to write this virus. I'm drawing a blank, but I'm sure there will be lots of +5 funny responses.

    Since my current sig just confuses everyone anyway, maybe I should change it to "$5 for a thousand pages of this!?" and save everyone the typing.

    1. Re:VIrus in attachment by mikeage · · Score: 2

      Microsoft's Q-Basic. Can't be compiled, can't be double-clicked (tm).

      Not to be confused with QuickBasic, which can be compiled.

      --
      -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    2. Re:VIrus in attachment by WildBeast · · Score: 2

      Very funny. So when people execute the virus, they'll have to wait for it to load and then have messages like "Please wait while executing the virus....Sending Message1...Sending Message2..."

  10. Proof of concept? by Alizarin+Erythrosin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seems to me this is more like a proof of concept virus, like that one that was written in Flash a while back, demonstrating the kinds of things that COULD happen should Outlook's holes and bugs not be patched up.

    The message body is actually a very misleading one though... I mean, who wouldn't wanna speed up Windows by 50% and make it more secure? We can't get that kind of update, even out of Microsoft!

    --
    There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
    1. Re:Proof of concept? by gregorio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      demonstrating the kinds of things that COULD happen should Outlook's holes and bugs not be patched up.

      What holes? Stupid users or allowing those stupid users to open attachments? Should Microsoft release some kind of version of Windows that doesn't allow stupid users to execute whatever they want?
      I don't think so, people should just stop executing unknown e-mail attachments.

  11. SSSCA Impact on Viruses by heretic108 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I worry about SSSCA.
    If it goes through, virii would definitely fall under the category of 'interactive digital devices'.
    It will be illegal to write or transmit a virus unless it contains 'approved security measures'.
    Any attempt to circumvent a virus' protection mechanism, or communicate to others the nature of a virus or possible defences against it, will be a criminal offence punishable by law

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    1. Re:SSSCA Impact on Viruses by DrSkwid · · Score: 2

      Maybe one can claim self defence, like being burgled and apprehending your burglars.

      If we could then project that theRIAA are an illegal cartel and that we are trying to act in self defence ... hmm pretty long shot.

      There is one oft overlook aspect to the legal system (at least in the UK) and that is that a jury does not have to return a guilty verdict even if they have been convinced that the defendant committed the act. It is quite within the power of a jury to return not guilty if they think that the law is unjust or unjustly applied. Maybe someone should try that defence sometime and see if they can make it stick!

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    2. Re:SSSCA Impact on Viruses by edhall · · Score: 4, Interesting
      virii would definitely fall under the category of 'interactive digital devices'

      That makes no sense whatsoever. An "interactive digital device" is a piece of hardware, as defined by the SSSCA. Unless you know something about computer viruses that I don't, they hardly qualify as such.

      Even as software, they are highly unlikely to contain the likely-to-be mandated digital signature. And that's the scary part: Microsoft is promoting digital rights management as an anti-virus solution (among other things). Part of the .NET infrastructure is providing the ability of each software component to be signed. Thus the SSSCA dovetails quite nicely with Microsoft's need for better security. And it gives them the opportunity to get even more leverage over non-Microsoft software (not just virunses). Who do you think will control the certification process necessary to get a signature?

      -Ed
    3. Re:SSSCA Impact on Viruses by heretic108 · · Score: 2, Funny

      virus, n.
      1. A computer program intended to replicate itself throughout multiple computers without the user's consent.
      2. A licensing condition applied to computer software which allows users to understand and modify the programming code used.
      3. virii, pl. Computer programs written without the express support or approval of Microsoft Corporation or its strategic partners, which threatens national security by undermining Microsoft's ability to control the global use of software in personal computers.

      (Source: Microsoft - New Employees' Orientation Handbook)

      --
      -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    4. Re:SSSCA Impact on Viruses by fishebulb · · Score: 2

      In the United states atleast the Judge has the ability to override the jury verdict. Its rare to happen, but in cases when the jury DID ignore the law, the judge can still make it applicable. im not sure on the specifics, or even if its still constitutional to do that here. Anyone?

  12. Worm with a virus payload by prockcore · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is actually a win32 worm, with a .net virus payload.

    " On PCs loaded with Windows XP and other .Net-enabled computers, however, Sharpei would additionally infect files in four other folders. If those files were opened, the virus would run again."

    The .net half is a true virus, and spreads among .net executables.

  13. Who even said it was a virus? by fireboy1919 · · Score: 2

    Its a program designed to advertise the amazing new security features built into the incredible .net framework!

    Similarly, LSD is capable of demonstrating the incredible new navigation (flight) features of Windows XP, and my assault rifle is useful to demonstrate windows new, millisecond speed shutdown procedure (along with security lock to ensure that no one who is not unauthorized won't be able to boot the machine).
    Its the best, isn't it?

    I should be on MS's marketing staff.

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  14. Re:Another Outlook worm by gazbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Did you read the article? They send an executable file, and ask the recipient to execute it. WTF are Microsoft going to do about that, short of hooking in a virus scanner by default into Outlook that auto-updates behind the user's back every time they connect to the Internet, and refuses to display mails that have a virus?

    Oh, and before you say that they *should* do this, firstly think about people who may have a legitimate reason to want to download a virus[1] and secondly, think of the accusations of monopolistic practices - I can't see Norton, McAffee et al taking that without a fight.

    Back to the subject, what else can Microsoft do about blatant user stupidity in the face of so much publicity about email viruses over the past year?

    [1] I wrote a website that allowed users to upload documents available for public download. Being a community spirited sort of chap I included a server side virus scan, and needed a copy of a virus in order to test it was working. I was sent a copy of I Love You in the end by a friend. See, I really did mean there are legitimate reasons.

  15. Re:Go to sleep Timothy by MiTEG · · Score: 3, Funny

    Go to sleep for gosh sakes. You've been posting since Noon yesterday.
    My god you're right! Timothy has has less than 3.5 hrs between posts for the past 24 hrs! A quick breakdown of Timothy's postings:

    March 03 3:15 AM
    March 03 6:47 AM
    March 03 8:29 AM
    March 03 11:59 AM
    March 03 12:22 PM
    March 03 12:57 PM
    March 03 2:16 PM
    March 03 3:56 PM
    March 03 5:19 PM
    March 03 5:35 PM
    March 03 5:46 PM
    March 03 7:47 PM
    March 03 10:35 PM
    March 03 11:11 PM
    March 04 3:17 AM

    I say go for another 24 and then see what happens, turn it into a sort of geeky endurance test or something.

    --
    The future isn't what it used to be.
  16. Re:Another Outlook worm by DrSkwid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    what else can Microsoft do about blatant user stupidity

    1. sandbox any executable
    2. introduce an executable bit into the file system so that downloades CANT auto execute

    that's 2 things off the top of my head.

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  17. EICAR Virus Test file by fsmunoz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, I had the same need... in order to test a virus scanner I mailed BO2k to see how it worked.
    It wasn't necessary though; every virus scanner should react to the EICAR anti-virus test file (she here). So if any of you ever need to test a virus scanner and have some management guy brething in your neck and raving about how using a real virus can compromise security use the EICAR file. Just mail him the virus personally by another mail gateway after that just to prove your point :)

    fsm

    1. Re:EICAR Virus Test file by gazbo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Noted, bookmarked and downloaded, cheers. Well, downloaded once I persuaded my virus scanner to stop buggin me about it.

  18. Re:It's not a virus by x0n · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's not a single click to execute attachments, it's double click; ergo you need to be twice as stupid as some to run an executable attachment sent to you unannounced.

    --

    PGP KeyId: 0x08D63965
  19. Re:yet another unhackable system by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Insightful


    it AMAZES ME, that the security analysts who keep saying there is no such thing as a unhackable system heap laud and praise on every "unhackable *" released.


    You have quotes and references to the same security analysts making both of these claims?
  20. .net and gnome... by kevin+lyda · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it seems this is not a true .net virus but it does bring up some interesting possibilities regarding the gnome project. ximian has professed to wanting gnome 4 to use the .net framework. so either they'll code it in such a way to avoid all the security issues in microsoft's .net, or they'll have the same security issues.

    in some ways either "wins." if the main linux .net implementation avoids security issues it's a pr disaster for microsoft. ditto if it has the same bugs as it will show a design flaw in .net.

    otoh it will "lose" - anti-virus companies will be against linux for taking away their product stream. and if the same security flaws show up then it removes a major distinguishing item from a linux desktop.

    --
    US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
    1. Re:.net and gnome... by kevin+lyda · · Score: 2

      did you even read my post? like, say, the first sentence. no, this wasn't a .net virus, but it is quite likely there *will* be .net security issues in the future. they may be design flaws or implementation flaws, but there will be flaws.

      --
      US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
  21. Wording by GSV+NegotiableEthics · · Score: 4, Funny
    Hey, at work we are applying this update because it makes Windows over 50% faster and more secure. I thought I should forward it as you may like it.

    Something about the wording suggests to me that this worm is intended to target only very stupid people. Does anybody reading this actually have friends who write emails like that?

    1. Re:Wording by GSV+NegotiableEthics · · Score: 2
      There are people like thaton /.....though, they won't be posting for a couple days after most viruses.

      If that is so, then somebody stands to make a killing by distributing bogus "subscribe to Slashdot" emails with their paypal account reference. :(

    2. Re:Wording by frisket · · Score: 3, Informative
      > Does anybody reading this actually have
      > friends who write emails like that?

      No, but I have 15,000 users who might.

      ///Peter

  22. Re:Great Advertising by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're shitting me... there are .NET users?

    Wow.

  23. Re:Another Outlook worm by DrSkwid · · Score: 2

    yeah, that's the reality. Of course the poster was suggesting that Microsoft can do nothing. This is obviously bunk.

    I feel slightly sorry for Microsoft. I used their products in a LAN environment and these features did actually come in handy. They've been exposed by a transition from (relatively) trusted clients to untrusted clients which is a massive paradigm shift. Unix, oth, has had untrusted clients in mind since not long after it's inception (that security was not in mind at the start still reveals itself and plenty of situations).

    Of course MS are hobbled by being a desktop OS provider. Thin clients booting across a network where real file permissions and a sensible built in backup procedure protect the time sharing device from malicious clients make the most security sense I think.

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  24. Re:Another Outlook worm by gazbo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Click the 'Advanced...' button, then click on view/edit for one of the users. You'll see the fine grained security there, with a lot of options including the old favorites, and some others such as 'read attributes', 'take ownership' etc.

  25. Terrible .NET Virus by SubtleNuance · · Score: 2

    designed to infect computers loaded with the .Net framework."

    With the proper diligence, and a competent admin -- NO computer should ever be infected with the .NET virus.

    Only a boob could ever allow such a thing to occur.

    ... heheh now this is a meme I like... if only i controlled the Media, I could infect billions with this simple mind-virus.

    Muahahahahhahah

    1. Re:Terrible .NET Virus by josepha48 · · Score: 2
      "Only a boob could ever allow such a thing to occur."

      Yes and the same could be said about most UNIX systems. It takes a little intelligence to prevent your machine from being taken over by virus, worms, or trojans, buffer overruns or other exploits.

      Something most /.ers here seem to miss is that not all computer users are as computer savy as many of the readers here. Many computer users WILL grant permission to a program to run on their machine. They will execute a file even if they do not know who it is from. While this article may not be 100% accurate, as most never are, it points out that .NET is not even out 'in mass' and people are already looking for ways to exploit it. This may actually be good for windows as it will hopefully make them find more ways to tighen the security and 'dummify the system' so that user xyz does not screw up their system just by click on a file. Like integrated virus scanner.

      Personally I'd go with what I call 'registered execution'. This would require that programs that are 'registered' could execute code to do certain task. If you wrote a macro on your computer it would become registered, but if you sent that macro to someone else it would not and they would then be prompted to run that macro and if they wanted to register it. Then when virus abc is sent to user xyz and the user click on it the OS pops up a message of the program you have tried to execute is not registered, it wants to modify registry settings and blah blah. While this is not 100% foolproof, it could help in reducing virus spreadding.

      Someone here compared perl to VB. I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that comparison. Perl is not embedded in email applications on UNIX or windows like VB is in Outlook. Perl is not part of an office application that is used by 90% of computer users (of course with China moving to Linux that number will change). Perl is a script and the number of virus that are spread uusing perl vs VB is tiny. perl can be used for buffer overruns and hack attacks, but then so can VB and C/C++ or even Java.

      "and a competent admin"

      If you have ever done system administration or IT support and had to support end users then you'd know that many of these people probably should not even be using computers at home. The point is that the .NET framework WILL be attacked by virus, worms and/or trojans and at some point they will spread.

      Hmm maybe /. doesn't hate all my posts after all....

      --

      Only 'flamers' flame!

  26. That won't work either by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At that point in time, they will con(vince) the government that virus-writers are terrorists, that terrorists are per default trying to kill people and destroy the economy and that as a result of that, that the government should invoke the death penalty for all virus writers.

    Of course the upside of that, is that it only takes very little effort to prove, that Windows is a virus, and that every OS writer at Microsoft should be put against the wall and shot.

    --
    We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
  27. MS: Favorite OS of Criminals Everywhere by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Get Microst C# today. Be on the cutting edge of Microsoft Virus spreading technology.

    More successful virus writers use Microsoft compared to any other operating system. You too can be a successful virus writer. Get in on the cutting edge made by a company that knows how to mess with people.

    [/sarcasm]

    etc.

    I just call all of these these Microsoft viruses. Makes life much easier.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  28. Re:Outlook strips by fanatic · · Score: 2

    These patches also block the mass-mailers, so the only reason the mass-mailers exist is that people are running older versions of Outlook

    <sarcasm>Must be the new AI feature that automagically separates spam from legitimate mail.</sarcasm>

    This last is a pretty broad claim. Seriously, though, what is this and how does it work? Spammers may be the only group on the planet that I hate more than MS (in the 'technical' arena, anyhow).

    --
    "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  29. Re:Security hole in PHP allows arbitrary code to e by WildBeast · · Score: 2

    Those security issues existed since PHP 3.0, no you didn't have to wait months, more like years.

  30. it's a Trojan horse actually ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 4, Informative


    The article doesn't get any of the terminology right, so I wouldn't put too much stalk in anything they say.

    It is neither a virus or a worm, though they seem to think the two terms are interchangeable ...

    It is a trojan horse. As a point of education:

    1) A Virus attaches itself to a host program, and does not necessarily require user interaction to infect additional files (e.g. it may attach to an OS device driver or other system program.) It may be attached to an application, but no coaxing is done to get the user to run it. It simply waits for the user to do so, and then goes about it's business.

    2) A Worm is a stand alone program that makes it's way through a system ... it isn't attached to anything.

    3) A Trojan horse is a program that is sent to an ignorant user, and requires them to run the program. It may appear to be a program of another sort - hiding it's behaviour - or it may immediately and blatantly do it's thing. Solicitation like the E-Mail body is always a component of a Trojan horse. The fact that it is an E-Mail attachment in no way makes this a virus. It spreads only with the help of user interaction and involves the direct solicitation of said action. It is fundamentally undifferentiated from an E-Mail asking someone to download an .exe and then run it. The fact that the downloading is performed via E-Mail attachment does not in any way change it's status from that of a Trojan.

    Come on folks ... if the Slashdotters of the world can't get this, then how will anyone else?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    1. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by istartedi · · Score: 2

      I dare ya to walk into the next room and ask that attractive young AA if her computer has a Trojan.

      In the common vernacular, "virus" has become the superclass for all these subclasses that you describe. Maybe /. should nitpick and choose the appropriate subclass, but I take no offense if they don't. However, these people that were correcting /. and saying it was a worm apparently deserve to be corrected by you.

      As far as I'm concerned, if it's on my computer, and I don't want it there, it's a "virus". Now, if I were at a technical conference discussing these things then I'd take pains to be accurate.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    2. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2


      "The definition of a virus is a program/code that replicates."

      You couldn't be more wrong. The term virus was biological before it was technological. Just as the biological analogue requires a host to survive, so too does the technological virus. Just because enough people misuse a term - and some of them are "in the anti-virus field" doesn't change it, any more than the fact that, while many people claim to write good, it is only possible to write well. Sorry chumly.

      "A worm is a program/code that can spread by itself (yes, even if a user must click on it to begin with, it's still a worm)"

      Hmmm ... a program that spreads by itself, but requires user interaction. You contradict yourself quite well. Perhaps you should think before you post???

      "A trojan horse is a program that disguises itself as something, and does something different. However, the virus/worm definiton has presidence over the trojan definiton. Therefore, if it spreads or replicates, it's NOT a trojan "

      When replication requires user interaction, it isn't a worm ... period. It's not a virus, because it has no host program to which it attaches. It's a Trojan. The fact that it performs it's Trojan activities in an automated fashion makes it no less a Trojan than if someone used and automailer to mail it to a list gathered from usenet... really.

      " Sorry for posting this anon... but I don't want my username to be known, because the things I say on slashdot are my ideas/opinions, and not those of my employer."

      What the hell does that have to do with anything ??? Your Slashdot login name obfiscates (or should) any corporate affiliation already. Clearly your excuse is exactly that!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    3. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2


      "I dare ya to walk into the next room and ask that attractive young AA if her computer has a Trojan. "

      Actually, I have social skills, so I would make sure she knew what I meant before I asked the question; there is nothing daring about it. BTW - Is an AA anything like a 'weeping young devotchka'?

      "In the common vernacular, "virus" has become the superclass for all these subclasses that you describe. "

      In the 'common vernacular' people run around claiming to write good (when of course when can only write well, or not so well, etc...) It was common 'knowledge' that the sun revolved around the earth in Copernicus' day ... you could just ask anyone on the ancient Slashot site. So my question is this ... do you have any actual valid point to make?

      "As far as I'm concerned, if it's on my computer, and I don't want it there, it's a "virus". Now, if I were at a technical conference discussing these things then I'd take pains to be accurate. "

      Perhaps you were unaware that Slashdot is a technical forum???

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    4. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2


      " Actually a worm can also be a set of programs (or program segments, and one could argue in this way the segments are attached or communicate to each other. "

      True enough. I probably should have said 'stand alone application' but it sounds a bit funny. Many people refer to Word or Excel as a program rather than an application, and that is the (albeit incorrect) manner in which I used the term.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by istartedi · · Score: 2

      In the 'common vernacular' people run around claiming to write good (when of course when can only write well, or not so well, etc...) It was common 'knowledge' that the sun revolved around the earth in Copernicus' day ... you could just ask anyone on the ancient Slashot site. So my question is this ... do you have any actual valid point to make?

      Yes. There is a time and a place for technical jargon. You are confusing the "common vernacular" with "common mistakes". "Write good" may become acceptable over time as language evolves, whereas the position of the Sun is an objective scientific fact.

      Efforts to use precise technical jargon all the time will actually result in ineffective communication. Judging when and where to use what kind of language is an important skill. It might be more convenient for you to use multiple words that convey fine shades of meaning, but you stand a good chance of losing your audience when you do that.

      This reminds me of the whole "cracker" vs. "hacker" debate. You know who won that, and you should know why.

      Perhaps you were unaware that Slashdot is a technical forum.

      Chuckle. LOL.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    6. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2


      ""Write good" may become acceptable over time as language evolves, whereas the position of the Sun is an objective scientific fact."

      "Write good" is never acceptable except to those who are members of the ignorant set, in which you are clearly a proud member.

      "Efforts to use precise technical jargon all the time will actually result in ineffective communication. Judging when and where to use what kind of language is an important skill."

      I would only add that you really should begin acquiring such skills at some point, preferably before you reply to another of my posts.

      "This reminds me of the whole "cracker" vs. "hacker" debate. You know who won that, and you should know why."

      Indeed, it is a rough analogue to the 'nigger' vs. African-American debate. You can tell the ignorant one by the term he or she chooses.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    7. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by istartedi · · Score: 2

      Your contentiousness is exceeded only by the irony of your .sig.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    8. Re:it's a Trojan horse actually ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2


      "Your contentiousness is exceeded only by the irony of your .sig."

      I see what you mean. Clearly someone with a truly open mind would believe whatever you say, no matter how completely off base you are. Those with a truly open mind would never correct anybody no matter how absurd their coments are, because having an open mind means believing everything you hear, no matter how contradictory. The irony is just overwhelming.

      Either that, or you truly are a trolling ignoramus. I'm open to that possibility as well, of course.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  31. Re:What do you expect by Tom7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looks like you need to read the story more carefully -- if you get all your information from Slashdot's misleading headlines, you're going to be pretty misinformed!

    This worm really has nothing to do with C# (or even .NET). It's just a regular e-mail worm that happens to also have a .NET payload, part of which is written in C#.

  32. .NET Security by rabtech · · Score: 4, Informative

    By default, the .NET framework will not run untrusted code and allow it to do anything of note.

    You will notice that the host EXE being sent over email is native x86 code, NOT MSIL. Therefore, it has no security permissions of note.

    If you were to attempt to write a pure-C# virus and mass-email it, you wouldn't get very far as the user would actually have to tell the framework to grant execute permissions to the downloaded code.

    I even have to grant permissions to the files I myself write with Visual Studio.NET; they won't execute by default.

    Lastly, Outlook 2000 w/security patches and Outlook XP both automatically disallow the user to download or execute EXE attatchments, period. Unfortunately, this makes it a hassle having to ZIP all EXE files before sending them (and VBS files, etc.), but that's a small price to pay to protect us from idiot users. My only complaint with Outlook security is that Outlook Express does not do this by default.

    I think Microsoft is doing a better job these days; they still have things to address of course. Sometimes I think people just misunderstand though... calls for the removal of VBScript are like asking *nix distributors not to ship Perl with their installs; its kind of silly.

    Fortunately, with XP Home, you don't have a bunch of home users running as Admin all the time; I think that's a big key right there.

    --
    Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
  33. Already happened by sheldon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Outlook2000 has a patch entitled "Fix stupid user", which prevents users from opening attachments. Outlook XP ships this way by default.

    Granted, the patch also does some useful things like changing the profile under which email is viewed to Restricted Sites Zone, thus disabling active scripting, etc.

    And if some user still insists on running that .EXE, the patch pops up when things connect to the Outlook COM objects and says "Hey, this thing is trying to send email.. is that ok dummy?"

  34. Re:Another Outlook worm by jd142 · · Score: 2

    Don't file permissions only work on shared folders on drives formatted with NTFS? I just tried to set permissions on executables in an unshared folder on a FAT partition in XP Professional and there was no place to do that. I can only set permissions on shared files, as far as I can see, and that's what I remember from the documentation as well.

  35. Re:Another Outlook worm by Pfhreakaz0id · · Score: 2

    right. That's why you shouldn't use FAT. using FAT on an NT/2000/XP kernel-based Windows and you throw security out the window. It's strictly a legacy thing.

  36. Re:What do you expect by sheldon · · Score: 2

    How is it that someone calling themselves a security professional can't be bothered to take the time to actually research a topic before injecting their opinion?

    Just curious. I take it the GISSP is like the MCSE, it only requires memorization skills?

    You might want to look into GIAC.

  37. Re:What do you expect by sheldon · · Score: 2

    Oops, sorry. I meant CISSP. My memorization skills aren't that good.

  38. Re:It's not a virus by Reziac · · Score: 2

    UNLESS you have Windows set to "single click to execute stuff". Yes, there is such a setting, and I've met crazy users who have it turned on. Eeeep!

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  39. What kind of analogy is that? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2

    lojack is to unix as an idling car in south central LA is to microsoft

    That makes no sense. Car theft and security have no direct logical relationships with computer operating systems. Your analogy is twisted out of shape. You should have said
    "unix is to microsoft as lojack is to idling a car in south central LA."

  40. Why this doesn't happen in Java by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2

    From reading the article, it seems that this is a win32 worm that patches security components in the .NET runtime before running a damaging .NET application. A program similar to this written in Java would have several disadvantages:

    1. It has no natural vector. Outlook serves well as a vehicle for socially engineered worms/viruses because it automates the execution of mobile code that arrives in attachments. The recipient only has to click on an attachment, and there is no way to know what it does unless you already know what it is. People using non-MS mail clients have to save an .EXE to disk and then manually run it.

    2. The JRE doesn't have Microsoft's assistance in getting onto every shmoe's machine out there. While XP doesn't currently have .NET support, this situation won't last long. Soon everyone will have a .NET runtime on their machine whether they're aware of it or not. And, these will be the same machines that are running Outlook.

    3. The security concerns surrounding Java and C# are quite similar. Either runtime can have a patch applied by wily native code. However, the average target machine will not have a JRE simply because it's a non-MS technology- it's not "part of the OS". (You won't find the old MS JVM on an XP machine.) If it does have a JRE, it will be deployed in the arbitrary directory that the user installed it into, which is unknown to the worm code unless it scans the disk. IIRC Microsoft puts the .NET runtime components in well-known places so this isn't a problem when making hostile C# patches. A worm written in Java would probably have to lug around its patched JRE with it- making it too heavy to spread very far.

    4. The people who write worms won't pay any attention to Java as long as C# is around. :)

    Of course, if the executable is running with no security manager in place, you can do whatever you want even if the runtime isn't patched. I can write a Java class that does a Runtime.exec() of anything I want, and send it to you. If you execute it as an application, it has no problems. I don't know personally what security constraints are placed on C# arriving in an Outlook attachment, but I can imagine they would be roughly similar to the constraints browsers place on applets. The fact that security constraints can't easily be placed on incoming native code, and the fact that the .NET runtime is so easy to patch using a little native code, means that MS has to seriously rethink its strategy of what types of mobile code are allowed to run.

  41. Re:mass-mailer-blocker by fanatic · · Score: 2

    OK, by mass-mailer you mean a virus. I thought mass-malier was referring to spammers. "Never mind." ;-)

    --
    "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  42. Cnet/XDnet Bias in reporting by q-soe · · Score: 2

    This is an example of an increasing bias in Cnet and Zdnet reporting - the desire to push out information as fast as possible and as loosely checked as possible grows daily.

    But i have to take the /. team to task a little - a small amount of research would have seen that the virus may be the first written in C# but its not designed to attack .NET. It makes use of some .NET frameworks components to spread but its simply a mass mailing worm and an exe file to boot, it creates a VBS.

    Now to look at at that in another way.

    1. Systems vulnerable to this are 2 years behind the curve - if you still allow .exe and .vbs into your environment in any form your not qualified to work in it.
    2. Not keeping virus scanners up to date is asking for it
    3. These guys simply did the invitable and made a virus in the new language - its been done with every language and OS platform since computers began and will no doubt continue.

    I dont want to attack anyone but i would suggest that we might all be benefited by spending 5 minutes researching before we comment (and to the anti MS crowd - if you cant be bothere finding out the truth dont comment - to be honest the attacks on every mention of microsoft is getting tedious and pointless and i suspect is driving people away from open source - enough is enough - you dont like MS - they are evil - we know so dont keep telling us)

    It depresses me that the level of technical discussion of anything non linux on here is lower than a snakes arse - i wish we could see the same passion that is applied to Kernal Updates applied to other areas.

    Editors - check your sources please !!

    --
    I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
  43. Re:C#? by Phroggy · · Score: 2

    how does one pronounce that? Is it C-pound? C-number? C-two sets of lines at near-right angles?

    C-sharp. Or the enharmonic equivalent, D-flat.

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  44. call it .Net by BlueboyX · · Score: 2

    If these virus writers were really against MS, they would have named the virus .Net, which reallyl would mess with the heads of corporate management teams. I could imagine something like that slowing down the adoption of .Net in the corporate world.

    --
    "Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet