Epson Treats Mac Users Like Second-Class Citizens?

Robert Jung writes "Is Epson waging a coordinated discrimination effort against Mac users? MacSlash reports that Epson is refusing to honor their $50 rebate coupon if the printer was purchased at an Apple retail store, and Daily Mac notes that if you want Mac OS X drivers for Epson scanners, you must fill out a form, fork over $4, and wait for the mail to arrive -- while Windows users are able to download XP drivers for free." Apparently, Mac OS (Classic) users can also download the drivers for free. Maybe they assume Mac OS X users don't have Internet access?

Comments

what problem?

[macsox]

i have an epson stylus photo 780 and the drivers are readily available at epson.com. they are the only company of all of the peripherals i own with an accurate mac os x info page. not to mention the fact that epson rolls drivers for many of their printers into mac os installs and updates. it seems like a good, simple way to do it.

Re:what problem?

[dewhite]

That's all true, but I'm still a little burned by the fact that they still haven't produced drivers for my epson 1160 wide format printer. It's really important to the work I do sometimes, so for now I have to export my documents to a win2k machine to print on large format paper such as 11x17. Oh well, maybe someday...

Re:what problem?

[LordNimon]

Well, that's stupid. What if his apps run natively in OS X? Is he supposed to launch classic mode, relaunch his app, and then print? And what if his apps don't run in classic mode? The latest version of MS Office is only for OS X.

I have an Epson 3000 which costs a whole lot more than his printer, and I also have no idea if, or when, Epson will release OS X drivers.

Re:what problem?

[DavidRavenMoon]

If his apps run natively in OS X, then they are using the Carbon API. Unless he suddenly stopped using all of mis Macintosh Applications and switched to NeXT applications which were ported to Cocoa. Carbon is a clarified Mac OS API, which runs equally well between Mac OS X and Mac OS classic (as long as you have CarbonLib installed. Almost all Mac OS 8.5 and above have this, it's a free download for 8.1).

Have you tried your Ofice X on Mac OS 9?

This is not exactly true. Carbon apps can be made to run in both OS X and OS 9, or made to only run in OS X.

MS Office v. X is carbon and does not run in OS 9.

The real solution, albeit a bit awkward, is to press the preview button on the print dialog, and save the file as a PDF file, then print from the classic version of Acrobat Reader. This is what I had to do before Epson released the drivers for my Stylus Photo 870.

Been seeing this in general

[Dark Paladin]

ATI doesn't have OS X drivers for their ATI-TV USB devices. Formac has OS X drivers for their Formac Studio, but it doesn't have all of the functionality of their OS 9 drivers.

I'm a new Apple guy (only 1 month on Mac so far), and I'm just not getting this. Why aren't more hardware/software developers writing their programs/drivers for OS X? I realize there's probably still a large OS 9 userbase, but since the future is obviously OS X, it seems a no brainer for companies who's products are targeted right at the Mac crowd don't update their systems. Is it a case of "Maybe Mac will give up on this OS X" idea, a lack of funds, or just general laziness?

Re:Been seeing this in general

[LordNimon]

Part of the problem is that OS 9 users outnumber OS X users by a significant margin. Every day, the ratio changes slightly in favor of OS X, but it will be a long time before it hits 50/50.

Now, of the people who actually buy new software/hardware, the ratio of OS X to OS 9 users is higher. People who are still using a PowerMac 8600, which doesn't support OS X, probably aren't buying a whole lot of new hardware or software anyway.

Another "excuse" I've heard is that some vendors are waiting for Apple to include certain features in OS X before first. What would be the point of writing a multimedia driver if the multimedia subsystem in OS X is going to be rewritten in the next version (for example)? I think Creative is using this excuse for their Sound Blaster Live cards. It doesn't surprise me, Creative Labs has a history of lying about the capabilities of operating systems they don't want to support.

Is Epson being *that* unreasonable?

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to work for one of the Big printer mfgs (I'm still under NDA, but it is known by two initials...) in their driver development labs.

First, you'd have to be a fucking fool if you think that Epson is waging some sort of Microsoft funded war. They have everything prior to OSX on their website, so that's pretty clear.Epson is well known in the Mac world for color proofing tools, and well respected by many graphic artists I've dealt with.

The tendency at the Mac conspiracy sites is to be just as bad as the radical linux sites.

Back to my original point regarding the drivers -- OSX was, in our opinion, a horrid platform to code for. Despite the abundance of tools, we ran into flack from Apple, from irrational and mean spirited users, and had to put up with awful development tools. Management finally said something to the effect of "Fuck this" no hurry here. This was due in large part to the reaction of users.

This was about three months ago. I left my job to help my wife raise our new daughter, so this isn't a disgrunteled thing. I totally support Epson in this, though I suspect many in the Mac community will be absolutely fucking rabid.

Don't. It does more damage than you think.

Posting AC for the obvious reasons.

Re:Is Epson being *that* unreasonable?

[wbajzek]

In the early days of OS X, I saw a lot of developers saying stuff like, "MacOS X is a horrible platform for developers" and "It's so difficult to program for, that it could be years before our product is released."

In many of those cases, I've seen the same developer come out later touting how easy it was to write software for OS X. In rarer cases (Connectix), they've actually admitted that the difficulty was not the platform so much as their ignorance of it.

I just think it's interesting.

Rebate's

[The Donald]

You kept copies of everything, right? When I have this problem with rejections of rebates, I give one call to the rebate provider (Most likley not Espon, a secondary company that fulfulls the request), then write a letter to or call your Atty. General of your state. Explain the situation. Just read the fine print on your rebate. If could say "Not valid at Apple stores", but I did not see that on any rebate form. Usually, second letter to the rebate company, sent certified, with a notice saying that the rejection was sent to your Atty. General's office will get some results.

Epson Printer Rebates and store.apple.com

[tbmaddux]

I found the $30 rebate for my Epson C80 in PDF format here. Note that it specifically excludes purchases at Gateway stores in the fine print.

Perhaps there was similar fine print for the Stylus Photo 820 (for which there is no rebate coupon at the Apple store online)?

Caveat emptor!

Is it because of a retail price ploy?

[Ledge]

Maybe someone who has done a little bit of looking can answer this. Are the Mac retail outlets selling the devices in question cheaper?
Is Epson cutting a deal with them to forego the rebate system so that they can show a real cheap retail price?

Anon?

[hotsauce]

Anonymously? How many HP driver developers left their jobs three months ago to help their wives raise their daughters?

Epson Always Supported Mac Well

[hotsauce]

Never attribute to malice that which may be explained by stupidity.

Or just an incompetently executed campaign.

Epson has always supported the Mac well. Most traditional Mac users swore by Epson in the Dark Days when everyone left but Epson continued to provide their entire product line. Most of these traditional Mac users also haven't left OS 9 so Epson hasn't had to, but give it a few months now that Photoshop 7 (for OS X) is set to appear.

Re:Epson Always Supported Mac Well

[marktwain]

Good comment. Epson has always supported the Mac platform well, going back to the 1980's.

The first printer I owned for an Apple ][+ in 1981 was an Epson. It was less expensive than the Apple model and twice the quality.

Epson is a good deal bigger now than they were back then. If a Mac user writes their tech support (my one experience in late 2000) you get back a form letter email suggesting that (your problem, whatever it is) is likely due to an extensions conflict .

But a followup email gets decent results. Tedious but they're a big company. They were fast off the mark when OS X shipped. HP took forever and I don't care what the ignorant excuse was that posted in a different thread by a former HP employee. Epson was there with drivers for most consumer printers day one.

Big companies do indeed do stupid and ignorant things from time to time. They all do. Name one that hasn't. Epson of all printer manufacturers supports the Mac best. Other devices I'm not as certain about. But Epson printers I know.

whatever

[great_plains]

I've got an epson printer, and it's the only printer I've ever found that has Serial (mac style,) USB, AND parallel - How is that discrimination against mac?

Epson will be allowing free downloads...

[MysteryMilk]

I read this article too, and contacted Epson. According to Epson's customer relations the $3.99 charge for the Mac OS X scanner drivers are for shipping only. This is only for those who don't, or can't download the drivers, but want and actual CD. Epson normally charges $9.95 for for replacement or updated driver CDs, so this is actually a good price. When the drivers are released, the CDs will ship, and the drivers will be available for download...for free! I'm sorry the person who wrote the DailyMac.com article didn't do any research, or actually read the details of this. Mop-Boy

Epson writes the best Mac scanner drivers

[ubiquitin]

Ever try to get a Canon, UMAX, Astra, or other scanner working on a Mac? It sucks. They make you load several very buggy inits in OS9 and don't even have OSX support. Epson has the best (TWAIN) scanner drivers for MacOS. Period. Maybe their rebate policy isn't the greatest (I wouldn't know.) but until the other companies would get off their axes to actually write workable drivers, I continue to recommend Epson scanners for MacOS and OSX.

Re:Epson writes the best Mac scanner drivers

[rfsayre]

umax are really easy. really really easy.