MacPerl 5.6.1 Released

pudge (apple.slashdot.org editor and MacPerl Maintainer) writes "MacPerl 5.6.1r1 is the first release of MacPerl in four years. It is now based on perl 5.6.1 -- actually on the latest unreleased 5.6 sources, so MacPerl is the most advanced release of perl ever -- and support for MacPerl is now in the perl core, for both 5.6 and 5.8. MacPerl can also be built entirely with freely available software. And, like its predecessor, it runs on Mac OS X under the Classic environment. Read the announcement, and see macperldelta for details on what's changed."

Comments

Update

[BrianGa]

The official MacPerl site, which includes a downloads page, might be of interest.

Highlights In MacPerl 5.6.1 shows updates include:

• Update from 5.004 to 5.6.1 sources
• Update to GUSI 2
• New and improved Shuck
• Many bugs fixed
• More modules and utilities included

Is this relevant?

[AutumnLeaf]

How relevant is this? I found the inability to fork subprocesses, and the general "anti-command-line" tendencies of applications on the Mac OS, to make Mac Perl's usefullness much diminished compared to traditional unix environments. In many respects, I think AppleScript is the more effective scripting language for the classic Mac OS, although certainly it's not as fun or easy to work with as Perl (speaking from experience someone who's worked with both.)

Does anyone out there actually use Mac Perl for major development?

Re:Is this relevant?

[pudge]

I use MacPerl to develop the very site you're posting on ... does that count? :)

Sure, you can't fork, but that's rarely needed. I do command-line stuff with MacPerl (both via ToolServer in BBEdit and in MPW) often. And I use Mac::Glue to do whatever I might want to do in AppleScript, without AppleScript's performance penalties or horrific syntax. ;-)

For example, I have here a little script where MacPerl on my Mac OS box talks to my Mac OS X box and asks iTunes on Mac OS X what track is currently playing, and then it drops that information into my clipboard.

NP: It's Alright For You - The Police (Message In A Box - Disc 1)

Re: Is this relevant?

[inkswamp]

How relevant is this?

In 50 words or less: quite.

I found the inability to fork subprocesses, and the general "anti-command-line" tendencies of applications on the Mac OS, to make Mac Perl's usefullness much diminished compared to traditional unix environments.

Nothing personal but this sentiment just reeks of Geek Tunnel-vision. MacPerl is possibly one of the most powerful, useful tools on the Mac that I have at my disposal in running my company's website. I can't imagine what I'd do without it. Because it doesn't support a few (IMO) esoteric technical issues hardly diminishes its relevance.

Bear in mind that there are Mac-specific libraries distrbuted with MacPerl that interface with the Mac API/Toolbox (I was awestruck when I got my MacPerl script to access the Speech Manager--a talking Perl script. Cool!) Does the lack of those libraries on Unix diminish its usefulness there? I doubt it.

In many respects, I think AppleScript is the more effective scripting language for the classic Mac OS, although certainly it's not as fun or easy to work with as Perl (speaking from experience someone who's worked with both.)

I can speak as someone who's worked with both as well and I find that they naturally lend themselves to different tasks. If you want the ability to manipulate raw data or sift through enormous quantities of information, Perl is hands-down the way to go. If you need a quick script to facilitate interapplication communication, exchange of data between apps, or to automate a program (and especially if you need an application that can communicate with non-geek users via GUI elements) AppleScript is hard to beat since that functionality is built right in, no loading extra libraries which makes for quick and lean scripts. Each has its own strength. I don't think I've ever been in a quandry over which one to use for any given task.

Does anyone out there actually use Mac Perl for major development?

Probably not, but how does that diminish its relevance to those of us who leverage its power on a daily basis to conquer some Herculean tasks? I find this update unexpected, exciting and quite relevant..

--Rick

Perl lead me to linux

[nullard]

MacPerl drove me nuts under the old MacOS. I had to do some perl development and I needed to use some database modules that were unstable ondr MacOS. I tried to use them under Windows using ActiveState, but there the modules were just not available. I ended up HAVING to learn to use Linux (and install) in order to get my work done.

Since OS X has perl, I do my perl development on my Mac again. It's good to see MacPerl being developed, but its usefulness has diminished -- the target audience uses an operating system that is being phased out.

Re:Advantage??

[pudge]

Because, as noted above, perl doesn't have access to the Mac OS API under Mac OS X yet. This will change, hopefully, but for now, if you want to run your old scripts that call Mac::Windows, Mac::Events, etc., then you need MacPerl, even under Mac OS X. I hope that before the end of the year, there will be no reason to run MacPerl under Mac OS X.

WOW!!

[Reality Master 101]

...actually on the latest unreleased 5.6 sources, so MacPerl is the most advanced release of perl ever...

Good lord! The most advanced Perl EVER ?? I'm running out to buy a Mac RIGHT NOW.

I mean, come on guys... I know Mac people are used to being second class citizens as far as getting the latest releases of software, but this is just... embarrassing.

Every once in a while, the Mac community gets something first, and they start crowing like I can't believe. Have some self respect, for god's sake.

Re:WOW!!

[Skirwan]

Every once in a while, the Mac community gets something first, and they start crowing like I can't believe. Have some self respect, for god's sake.

We have plenty of self respect. In fact, we have the most advanced self respect ever!

--
Damn the Emperor!

Perl + Aqua

[banky]

Are there any plans underway to give Perl acces to Aqua, like with Perl/Tk or GTKPerl? I'd really like to be able to write perl scripts with simple, non-XFree86 GUIs on OSX, the way I can use various toolboxes on Unix to create GUIs.

Re:Perl + Aqua

[hobbs]

Apple currently has people working on porting Tk to Aqua (based on Tcl first, which ships default with OS X). Once that is done, whichever languages hook into Tk through Tcl will get native Aqua L&F (i.e. Python, Ruby). Perl still uses a modified Tk 8.0 (pre-unicode days), so I don't know what effort it would take to update Perl/Tk to a modern Tk. I've heard from Nick Ing-Simmons about the possibility a while ago, but he's gone quiet in the interim...

BTW, Tk does work on OS X natively now, just via X.

Re:Perl + Aqua

[hysterion]

Are there any plans underway to give Perl acces to Aqua, like with Perl/Tk or GTKPerl? I'd really like to be able to write perl scripts with simple, non-XFree86 GUIs on OSX, the way I can use various toolboxes on Unix to create GUIs.

Sign the petition!

Re:Why the hell would you run it under Classic?

[pudge]

Actually, no sir: I answered the spirit of the question precisely. You are asking a separate question, which is why I, personally, spent time MAKING MacPerl. As to that, I can only say that it is odd that you would presume to have a reasonable opinion of what is the best use of my own time and efforts, since you, of course, cannot. :-) Suffice it to say that it is more than worth the time and effort, as a point of fact, regardless of your opinion on the matter.

As to Carbon/Cocoa bindings for Mac OS X: they are in progress. But they are irrespective of MacPerl, except that they will, eventually, obviate the need for MacPerl on Mac OS X, and the Carbon bindings will likely work on both Mac OS and Mac OS X.

I've seen a bunch of posts asking why...

[Teancom]

"Why not just port the OSX version to have the Mac:: modules? Why use the classic version at all? What's the point?" Etc, etc, etc. Well guess what, people, *not* *everybody* *uses* *OSX*. My little blueberry ibook would be crushed under the load of Aqua, and it hums along just fine with "classic", "old", "decript", OS9. And I use MacPerl, because I can hack around with it on road trips and write nifty stuff like "count the license plates" to keep my kids entertained. Sheesh, you'd think that there was no such thing as an old macintosh out there....

It's about time!

[seanadams.com]

<plug>This is great news for Ethernet MP3 player

The open development team behind the SliMP3 has created one of largest Perl programs in history. We've always ensured that the software is easy to install, and supports as many platforms as possible. That means we have to do certain things like avoiding fork(), and making sure that the Time::HiRes module is available with the distribution, pre-compiled for many architectures. We also deal with the path name differences between Windows and Unix. Those are the main differences - there are about a half dozen other little things, but all in all Perl is a great language and runs well on all platforms.

Version 1.0 of our software *was* compatible with MacOS9. We dropped support for OS9 after that, due to the numerous limitations and problems with the outdated MacPerl. OSX has never been a problem, because it's just Unix and it comes with Perl 5.6.1.

However, now that MacPerl 5.6.1 is available, there is a good chance that we'll be able to get the product working on MacOS Classic again. I am starting work on it today!

Hooray for the MacPerl team!

5.7

[tmark]

It is now based on perl 5.6.1 -- actually on the latest unreleased 5.6 sources, so MacPerl is the most advanced release of perl ever

Surely you mean this is the most advanced release of perl ever for the Mac, as the developer's release is at 5.7.3.

Re:Why the hell would you run it under Classic?

[znu]

Are you familiar with AppleScript Studio? The basic idea is that you can use InterfaceBuilder and ProjectBuilder (Apple's free developer tools) to create fully-fledged applications using just AppleScript, and you can easily combine AppleScript and Objective-C in Cocoa applications. It's rumored that Apple also has a "Perl Studio", but it's unclear if it'll ever get publicly released or if it's just something that some folks at Apple thought might be fun to play around with.

Personally, I'd love to see it released. I quite like Objective-C, but for small apps were performance isn't critical, it's often just too much trouble. AppleScript is nice, but it isn't nearly as powerful as Perl, and it has much lower performance. Perl would fill the gap between Objective-C and AppleScript perfectly, allowing people to develop fairly serious apps quickly and easily.