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Hawaii Wi-Fi
wyldchild37 writes "Through all the hype about 802.11b, I haven't seen too many real applications being talked about. Now that's starting to change. Here's a story on a guy who has set up a wireless network covering a good chunk of the Big Island of Hawaii. His network includes base stations wherever he can place them, along with an assortment of amplifiers, antennas, and other gear."
...what type of security he'd have implemented on something such as this network. Would anyone with a wireless NIC be able to access it? If it connects to his own network at home, are those boxes secure there?
This is somewhat interesting, as a lot of the research that went into what became ethernet was originally developed at the university of hawaii, as a wireless network, called Aloha http://www.nightflight.com/foldoc-bin/foldoc.cgi?A loha
Bob Metcalf (of xerox parc, later founding 3com) went on and basically took the protocol's and put them on a wire (instead of wireless), and this led to what we know of ethernet today.
what 802.11 adds to ethernet (that aloha didn't have) is the request to send/clear to send protocol which prevents the "hidden sender" problem from appearing. This problem is, wireless cards only have a certian range, card "a" might want to send data to card "b", and card "c" might want to send data to card "b", but "a" and "c" can't see each other, so their can be collisions which they will never know about because they can't see the collision. (unlike in ethernet, or in aloha, where all the hosts are assumed to be able to see each other)
Do you really want to go to Hawaii to be geek'd up? Isn't the purpose of Hawaii to have a place where Geeks' take their wives so they will stop complaining? ("I want a week without you in front of a screen, where we will actually sit and talk" "Can I PLEASE just take my palmpilot? I won't even take the charger. Promise") Where a geek might actually see the daystar?
JoeLinux
Hawaii Wi-Fi-OH?
The article doesn't mention laser/optical links, but it seems to me that that would be an alternative to the DSL and T1 lines they have connecting base sites already. With the optical link method, potentially, you can connect up lots more base sites without laying down more wiring.
Of course, everything might get out of alignment when they have an earthquake...
wyldchild37 writes "Through all the hype about 802.11b, I haven't seen too many real applications being talked about."
:-)
:: The Safe-Haven For Linux Power Users
Huh? Yeah, no one's talking about using wireless because EVERYONE'S ALREADY USING IT. Christ, there's an article from 2000 that talks about how popular wireless on college campuses was getting two years ago. These days, it's almost the norm. There've been numerous articles posted to Slashdot about particular colleges using wireless and loving it.
Aside from 802.11b on college campuses, there are plenty of other applications. I hope I don't sound like I'm scolding you or something, it's just that you seem to be a bit out of the loop, which is fine
MONOLINUX
IMHO the most interesting part of the article was the mention of the growth of Wi-Fi for free as a parallel for the growth of the Internet as a medium to freely share ideas and disperse knowledge and understanding. I hope the author's dream does come true. I'd love to see wireless access to the I-net as prevelant as cell phone access is or better for that matter.
Sig 'em boy!
That leaves the residents of the island who hunger for faster speeds two options: 1) put up with 4.5sec latencies and use satellites to move data between Hawaii and the rest of the world, or 2) beg their sugar daddies in D.C. for a few million dollars to upgrade the island's aging hardwired links. Or 3) route low-latency traffic (games, ssh, etc.) over the T1, and route downloads over the satellite.
Looks like the pricing is only going to be 24.95 a month for ISDN speeds up to $99.99 for 1 Mb. Doesn't seem like all that bad a deal.
Wow, what this guy is doing is pretty amazing. Everyone can benefit from a little generosity and ambition, if everyone gives a little.
26 miles?? This is pretty impressive. Have any ISP's in any city considered doing this as an option of giving broadband internet access?
Also, I bet if 802.11 were implemented into cell phones, or RIM blackberry devices, wireless plan rates would drop like a stone.
Here in Toronto, for $25/month (cdn dollars) and a RIM blackberry, you're only allowed to send or receive 75Kbytes a month. I bet this crazy monthly rate would drop like crazy if Bell Canada did something in Toronto like what this guy is doing in Hawaii (heck... we can even use the CN Tower to transmit!).
Of course there is a problem of sniffing the packets right out of the air, but that can be solved if pgp were used.
Good stuff... good stuff...
I like what this guy is doing... and support his vision.
I disagree. I believe that being able to answer email during the dead bits of meetings, being able to wander into someones office at work and being able to immediately work with them, being able to telecommute, read my mail or just surf the TV listings from my couch without having to be tied to a cord are all pretty solid applications of the technology.
I'm not the only person who thinks so. A coworker recently ran an 802.11b networking finding program on his laptop on his drive to work, and counted 175 distinct networks, all probably within 100 yards of his car during his commute... There're a lot of 802.11b networks going up.
--Joe
I'm a nature photographer.
Wiecking's project to bring wireless net to the island Hawaii has gotten a lot of support from the University of Hawaii and the Maui High Performance Computing Center, which is also working to impelment wireless on Maui. The MHPCC has a site here with some nice info pages, including some helpful coverage maps. A lot of the areas the MHPCC's project covers are way out in the 'boonies (Honokaa, Kohala), so any geeks who are interested in doing the whole hermit-in-paradise thing might want to take note.
What this guy has accomplished here would really be a no-brainer for most on Slashdot. The only thing I can see stopping one is the financial aspect -- an even that's not high. $1000 will create a 256 user, 5 mile 802.11b omnidirectional network or a 25 mile PtP. Myself and three others are setting up a public network in Athens, Ohio. You would be amazed at how many cities will allow you to co-locate antennas on public service towers and buildings when you bill the service as non-profit and for the community.
Here is a low-down of the basic equipment needed for a high-range, omnidirectional base station:
- 15 dB 80" Omnidirectional Antenna
- 1W AGC Amplifier
- Linksys WAP11 (or your favorite AP here)
- N to N male Connector (amplifier to antenna)
- BNC to N male Connector (AP to amplifier)
All of the above cost under $800, and when situated in an area with good radio horizon, you can expect 11 Mbps for at least a mile, and 2 Mbps up to 10 (in some cases). Please note that it's against FCC regulations to operate a 2.4 GHz link at 1W with a 15 dB antenna. I doubt anything would come of it since it's not a huge increase over the limit in this area of the spectrum, however for the paranoid you should use an automatic gain control amp that adjusts power automatically to keep you legal.
Other than that it just depends on how much money you have to invest in these base stations to provide wireless roaming. What we have found is that two stations located near enough each other that they overlap tends to increase the power somewhat and allow more users on the system.
This is really the future. Once enough cities grow their own public wireless networks and the technology gets up in the 100 Mbps range (802.11a is not applicable as the range is very limited) at the current distance and power, we can say goodbye to the telecommunications giants for most things.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
If he can get a 26 mile range out of 802.11, well, how? I can understand that that's the top range with an amazing directional antenna, and if you amplify it, maybe it doesn't have to be directional. But how does the signal from the laptop (and the amazingly sissy antenna) reach the 26 mile ranged base station?
Flame away, if you want. I'm actually curious now. =)
I'm not exactly an expert on wireless internet, but where does the bandwidth to connect this network to the rest of the internet come from? I was under the impression almost all broadband providors don't take kindly to a wireless link providing free access for all to their network. Do these projects just have a very generous ISP behind them, or is it done without their knowledge, or what? I'm curious how this was pulled off at this end of the connection.
Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
This guy has a neat idea, but he sure didn't pick a very good place to implement it.
I spent a few months out of every year on the Big Island when I was growing up (my dad lives there) and still visit once or twice a year. For those of you that haven't been there, the terrain is not by any means well-suited for wireless communications. There are hills and valleys everywhere. Cell phone companies have a hell of a time providing decent service there (try being in a car and riding down the road a few miles while on the phone, you often get disconnected). My brother provided the land for a big AT&T tower on his ranch, and the tower more or less covers the northern part of the island. It seems about the only place to get decent reception on the nothern part of the island is on the ranch itself. Taking this into consideration, I would guess this guy is going to need lots of people participating to get this working very well.
I have to point out the that the reporter made an incorrect statement about broadband availability on the island. My dad has had a cable modem for years (so have his friends all over the island), and it seems to work better than mine does in California. And DSL was available to him even before it was at my house or office in Orange County. The only problem is, as others have mentioned, the island chain isn't connected up very well with the rest of the world. But the pipes don't seem to be saturated just yet... he gets good ping times to the mainland and he usually has more bandwidth to different sites around the world than I do (yes I realize there are other variables heh). Whatever the case, I wish reporters could get their facts straight. I guess it sounded better for him to say that nothing else was available there. It may be an island, but it is no longer the boonies (unfortunately) - it is pretty developed there and the place is growing at a very fast rate.
Anyway, still a cool idea... I look forward to checking it out on my next trip over there. Maybe I missed it (I'm in need of some sleep!), but where is he getting the Internet connection to share with everyone? If each base station was contributing... wouldn't that mean that some of these people had broadband in their homes to begin with in order for them to contribute?
--SONET
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
Who wants to do this in Adelaide, Australia? If so, please contact me :)
Okay, i know theres www.adelaide.air.net.au (and www.air.net.au !) and www.airnet.com.au...
Broadband prices here suck, and we want to give fast internet access to the masses.
D.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
Hawaii has a long history of being radio central. From the developement of by TCP by HAMs to NAVCAM, one of the few elf stations in the world. I shot a 1435mhz LOS link 310 miles from Pu Ki Ki on the big island to Mount Kahala on Oahu at 3 watts @ 4608kbs data rate. The water does some amazing things for RF propogation there.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
It's working and spreading in Oahu also, for those who failed geography, thats the most populated island where Honolulu, Pearl Harbor and Waikiki are. Hurricane Internet is running it there. Great company that has been on the island for years. Linux is used anywhere possible throughout the business and they even freely supported the local LUG's mailing list and archives for years.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
because the packets are all carried locally so no one has to pay for the connectivity to the rest of the Internet. The article talks about cool things like live cams on beaches and as long as few people are interested in sending packets anywhere else, this free system will (mostly) work.
/. most users want lots of access for free. What this article barely touches on is who provides the connectivity to the mainland or Asia? Who provides the IP space? Unless you NAT, the IP addresses for a large network like this might grow into would cost a lot of money. Who pays for the email server? For that matter, who pays for the $800 access points?
However, in my experience most users want 'Net access and from reading most posts on
Do the people using this system expect the founder to maintain it forever for no money? What happens when he no longer can (or want to)?
DSL and other broadband companies are going bankrupt all over the country because they cannot afford to provide a t1 to every user for $35 a month and still pay for their outbound traffic and maintenance. How the hell will this completely free system support its infrastructure?
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
We use antennas and amplifiers from Fleeman Anderson & Bird Corp.
We use antenna masts from Radio Shack.
We've found that the most reliable access points are Cisco Aironets, 340s or 350s. They can cost $1000-1500, though, so go with Linksys/SMC/Netgear if you're not that worried.
Also make sure you tie up cables on masts with something, like guy wire or metal cable ties, that doesn't disentigrate in a couple months. Always tape up the ends of the cables with electrical tape or use that rubbery stuff for protection from the weather.
And have fun!
The Big Island has 5 mountain ranges - two of which go up over 13,000 ft and separate the island in half. Furthermore, major portions of the island have no phone or power service - thus getting the signal to the entire island will be nearly impossible. (Even our cell phones only work in very selected areas of this island -- and when I used my cell phone from the top of Mauna Loa (13,400 ft) it was picked up by a cell tower on the NEXT ISLAND OVER - Maui).
But kudo's to him!! Anyone know how to get ahold of him? (I'll try today to find his contact info) --- I'll be more than happy to put an antenna at my house!
--PSRC (B.S. Physics, HTC, 1978; M.S. Mathematics, 1979)
P.S.: Surf the Hocking!-)
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1) Yes. Both antennas are omnidirectional, only one is much longer and has a lot more gain (the tiny flip antennas typically have around 2-4 dB, and remember one dB more is double the signal strength). So a 15 dB antenna is around 8x as powerful (with amp over 20x). It's like an ultra wide-angle telescope, only for radio waves.
2) If all 256 users are connected, they do not all share the same 11 Mbps bandwidth. In fact, the overhead of a wireless network is typically around 3 Mbps, so you only really get around 9 Mbps max of useable bandwidth.
Of course, 9 Mbps is still a lot and makes for *great* web browsing, with a few users doing multimedia applications like streaming video/audio or downloading/uploading large files. What we have found is that if you can match your Internet pipe with the connection it works almost flawlessly as far as heavy load goes (e.g. get a 10 Mbps fractional T3). The network only starts to get slow when things start backing up at our land-line and the clients constantly have to resend data. That's what you have to watch out for -- dropped and resent packets. Those kill the network and are usually from a slow landline.
Hook up a 56k to a WAP11 and load it with 10 users and then try to access a file on a nearby computer. You will be suprized the network is quite slow for something that should be fast.
Anyway, hope this helps!
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95