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Microsoft Case Enters Crucial Penalty Phase

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the nervous-goalies dept.

An Anonymous Coward points out an article from Joseph Menn's in the Los Angeles Times which begins: "Microsoft -- Nine states waging a landmark antitrust battle against Microsoft Corp. are preparing to venture into territory that has been barely visible during the past years of legal slogging: the future." This delves slightly into ways in which the states in legal conflict with Microsoft would like to see Microsoft constrained legally going forward.

28 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. About time by PhoenxHwk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Honestly, it's about high time that we're getting around to the penalty. It has always bothered me how much money the government needs to spend to enforce simple laws like the Sherman Antitrust act. *sigh* Perhaps we would have just been better off if the government had just subsidized the ridiculous price of Windows and Office.

    And it's not like this is the end either. MS will appeal every last thing they can think of.

    1. Re:About time by Brian+Kendig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If there's any question left in anyone's mind about whether or not Microsoft is guilty, and how far any ruling against them needs to go...

      Look at the Slashdot story preceding this one, 'The Sad Parable of OS/2'. Specifically, read the article in Linux And Main it links to.

      Scroll down to the section titled 'Courtly Hatred and Windows in Mud Huts,' and start reading.

      If Microsoft got away with a slap on the wrist last time, it can get away with a slap on the wrist again. It's going to take someone with a lot of backbone to make sure this doesn't happen.

    2. Re:About time by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We should just throw criminals in jail and skip all this shitty expensive "trial" business.

      People accused of a crime might well be held in a jail until their trial. The process is called "being remanded in custody". Alternativly they may be subject to want they can do, have to report to some official or other at certain times, surrender documents such as passports or give over some kind of deposit. Some or all of these processes are refered to as "bail". At this time the accused is considered by the law to not be guilty.
      The idea of a speedy trial is to ensure that innocent people are subjected to any of these for as short a time as possible.
      If someone is found guilty they can be held in a jail whilst the judge considers the most appropriate sentence.

    3. Re:About time by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still, the previous poster seems to forget that Microsoft has already been convicted and sentenced and this is the appeals stage of their case.

      Problem is that even though they have been found guilty no sentence has actually been carried out. They are appealing what amounts to a suspended sentence.

  2. hmm by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Microsoft -- Nine states waging a landmark antitrust battle against Microsoft Corp. are preparing to venture into territory that has been barely visible during the past years of legal slogging: the future."

    So this is kind of like Terminator, except the other way round ?

    They split up Microsoft- but it reformed!

    Bill Gates: "I'll be back"

    graspee

  3. I've got four words for you... by bmw · · Score: 3, Funny

    I LOVE THIS COMPANY! YEAH!

    1. Re:I've got four words for you... by PolyDwarf · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's five words.
      The proper four words are:

      "Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers"

  4. I liked the cartoon outcome... by waytoomuchcoffee · · Score: 3, Funny

    Here

  5. Landmark case for IT industry by chrisvdp74656 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This case will be a very important case for the IT industry. If Microsoft gets away with a slap on the wrist, they will continue their monopoly, Linux, BSD and other OSes that refuse to implement DRM in the kernel will be outlawed (in the US, at least) and other double-plus-ungood things. If, however, Microsoft are severely penalised, the IT industry is very likely to decline, as there is at the moment a large dependency on Microsoft in the IT industry. And there is no point denying it.

    I am not trying to spread FUD, and I would like to see 1 Microsoft Way at the center of a small nuclear explosion, but we must acknowledge the severe repercussions this may have on the IT industry.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    1. Re:Landmark case for IT industry by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If, however, Microsoft are severely penalised, the IT industry is very likely to decline, as there is at the moment a large dependency on Microsoft in the IT industry. And there is no point denying it.

      The IT industry is dependent on people's needs for IT. If you need to move information around efficiently, you need IT to do it, and these days every business, from banking to agriculture, needs to do just that. (The dot-bomb showed us that just moving information around isn't enough to have a successful business, but I think hardly anyone would argue seriously against the proposition that it is a prerequisite for success.) Whether you do that information-moving with Microsoft products or with some other kind of software has no real effect on the demand for movement of information.

      Therefore, any penalties imposed on Microsoft will not harm the IT industry as a whole. If the demand for MCSE's and other Microsoft-dependent drones declines, it will be matched by a rising demand for people who know other OS's and applications. In the short run, I see no reason to weep over Microsoft lackeys getting fewer jobs while people with broader-based computer science education and experience get more jobs (which would be a welcome reversal of current trends.) In the long run, of course, Microsoft being nuked would increase innovation and quality in IT as a whole, and so be good for everybody. In short, whether you know it or not, all you're doing is repeating M$ FUD when you claim that a severe penalty in this case would have any major negative effect whatsoever.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  6. The future? by secondsun · · Score: 3, Funny

    I didn't know that MS headquarters had a flux capacator, much less the ability to travel the necessary 88 mph. Go them.

    --
    There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
  7. Maybe I'm being too oversensitive.... by ThomasMis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article states that the anti-trust case is currently in its "punishment" phase. And I know I'm arguing semantics here, but we shouldn't be seeking retribution for past behavior, rather, the focus of the states should be on how to restore competition in tomorrow's PC software market.

    --
    Check out my podcast: DreamStation.cc Video Game Show
  8. Never ending cycle by Eric+Damron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What good is punishing Microsoft it they keep even some of their ill-gotton gains? If I steal $25,000.00 and get a $10,000.00 fine but get to keep my stolen booty is that a deterant?

    Microsoft is now using the gains it made illegally to expand into internet services and other areas. There will be new violations. There will be new victims. There will be new lawsuits.

    As long as the Justice Department is getting it's giant Federal dick lubed by Microsoft the cycle will continue.

    --
    The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
    1. Re:Never ending cycle by Bodrius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you steal 25K, and you are proven to have stolen 25K, the government will take the 25K back. But they will not take away your house, your car, your children's college funds or your 401K.

      Microsoft may have been declared to be an anticompetitive monopoly by the government, but it is not clear, in monetary terms, how much they owe to being a monopoly and how much to being just a successful software company.

      You have to remember, Microsoft wasn't always a monopoly, and I don't think the case was clear on when exactly did it become one.

      So, from all those billion dollars they have made since that old version of BASIC, how much would you say is directly linked to the crime? It's probably impossible to prove, and trying to figure it out would probably cost about as much in time, lawyers and accountants. That's why the federal government doesn't get into that mess and lets the respective parties deal with it in civil lawsuits, since civil lawsuits are more liberal with the definition of "facts".

      --
      Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
    2. Re:Never ending cycle by Stonehand · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're convicted of a major theft, you will not only need to repay, if possible, but also be fined and likely jailed; your employer will probably fire you; your spouse may divorce you, and a judge would probably agree there's just cause -- and transfer custody of the children as well; you may forfeit voting rights; you will be marked a convict for the rest of your life, and will find it difficult to rebuild it once you leave prison.

      Compared to that, slapping a few conduct restrictions on MSFT doesn't seem too harsh.

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
    3. Re:Never ending cycle by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Finally, MS can expand where ever it wants. They have no monopoly to leverage in Internet Services. Therefore, there can be no new violations.

      Get your facts straight. They have a monopoly in OS's, that they will use to wedge themselves into the internet services industry. This is CLEARLY illegal. And any company that goes under due to this, is a victim, by definition... they were harmed by a criminal act.

      I could also argue that M$ isn't likely to lose more than chump change to civil lawsuits. It would require a judgement in excess of $10 billion, to even faze them. That simply isn't going to happen.

      And as for the parent post... it was vulgar, but much more accurate than your own.

  9. Would this really be so bad? by bmw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer has said it's unrealistic to think that Microsoft could come up with multiple Windows versions that work equally well.

    Who says they have to work equally well? Especially considering the wide variety of needs that people have. What works well for one person, doesn't necessarily work well for another. This would just give people a much needed choice in what is installed on their system. If everyone used a stripped down version of their OS that does only the things they absolutely need (and can be added to at a later time if so desired) then the internet as a whole would be much healthier.

  10. Re:Just let them kill themselves... by crudeboy · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I don't think you really can call IBM a minor player... They're still the worlds largest IT-company with revenue over $85 billion (2001) and over 300 000 employees.

    IBM is however a rather good example that a company can return in full force after a downturn, from being a hardware company they're much more into services now.
    And as for MS, you don't get to be number one only by breaking laws.

  11. Re:Just let them kill themselves... by yintercept · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Old monopolies never die. Look at the automotive and gas industries. Standard Oil is slowly putting itself back together.

    Now that we are out of that rapid growth phase of computers and internet, we could well see the reforming of old monopolies, as all the little companies, one by one, fall to the wayside. IBM is a good conservative company with long term growth stategies and connections. I would not be surprised to discover that IBM has increased its market share quite dramatically during the last two years of the tech sector crash.

  12. You think IBM is minor? by Numen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You think IBM is minor? You have to be kidding... IBM makes MS look small time.

    People have a strange impression as to how big MS actually is. Yes they're big but they've no harware to speak of, and they dont punt to the really high end solution well were the likes of IBM and Sun do.

    IBM produces a huge amount of patents annualy, across a wide range of product... MS aint even in the same ballpark.

  13. OEM Contracts by eap · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As someone said in the OS/2 story, Microsoft gained its dominance through restrictive OEM licensing. Any penalty must forbid them from using this anticompetitive practice to be worthwhile.

  14. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

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  17. Re:Sweet Jesus... It's HIM... by Bodrius · · Score: 3, Funny

    Whatever you say, but please, please, please don't use the sentence "uncensored movie of Gates/Ballmer cracking loose" ever again.

    --
    Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
  18. the only appropriate penalty... by jnana · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... is the corporate death penalty.

  19. Final moments of the trial... by Spoing · · Score: 3, Funny
    Judge: "Mr. Gates, as a spokesman and an influential leader of Microsoft Corporation, do you promise not to use Microsoft's current monopoly in an abusive manner?"

    Gates: "Well..." [Bill, staring at the floor, kicks a tile with the tip of his shoe. He glances at Balmer.]

    Judge: "Billll???" [Peering down to catch youthful William's eye.] "Come one now, you can do it. Steven's already promised."

    Gates: "OK, I -- I promise."

    Judge: "See, that wasn't so bad. Was it?" [Most in the court room look around, shaken by the emotion, almost to the point of crying. Some indeed do wipe back tears as they nod in approval.]

    Doj: "Oh, darn it! Everybody, group hug!" [And a cheer goes up as Justice has once agin been served. Golly, it sure as heck has.]

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  20. About time! by Decimal · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's about time this trial finally got to the penalty stage. Let's see all of those consumers bend over and get what's coming to them! The court has slowed down Microsoft's conquest long enough, and the company is very eager to "settle" the score on this one.

    Don't give me that look. You know everyone else is thinking it.

    --

    Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh