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IBM 120GXP Revisited
Andrew sent us a link to an article about the
IBM 120gxp controversy.
This is about the fact that the drive has been declared unfit for server use,
and to back that up, IBM says you should only use it for 333 hours a month.
This is a good summary of the issues and worth a read.
I think part of the trouble here is that IBM is selling these drives as OEM parts, and not retail drives. OEMs generally don't sell systems to the enthusiast market (The group most likely to leave systems running all day). In your average Dell/Compaq/Cow computer, it's preset to go on standby after an hour or so, powering off the drive. Since all of us "power users" don't like those performance-detracting ACPI/APM functions, we always disable them.
Furthermore, the DeskStar isn't intended to be a server part - IBM makes the UltraStar for that.
So, in essence, it's buyer-beware with OEM parts. Just like with the ATI video card debacle - You're buying parts that aren't intended for *you* to use. It's your fault if you're tryin' to skimp a couple of bucks out of IBM/ATI/whoever by buying on the grey market.
Now, that said...it's pretty fscking ridiculous to be making these drives and all but marketing them as the fastest ATA drives on the planet. That's practically hyping it up to the enthusiast market right there. And I really think it's asinine to expect these drives to *only* be run 8 hours a day. Factoring in the average lunch break when the computer will most likely get left on, that means that the drives are generally running out of spec on a regular business day in your average workstation.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Take a look at this.
Scary.
I bought a computer with a 75GXP in it last may, by Thanksgiving, the read/write heads had started making sounds as though it were thrashing, looking for a landing zone. By the time I was able to call the manufacturer of my computer (Christmas time), the computer had completely failed to boot.
Hopefully, the replacement they sent will last more than 6 months. But, just in case, I have a Maxtor 60GB in place as a backup. At least this time, if it goes down, I won't have to wait for the replacement.
Randal Graves says: I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class... Especially since I rule.
What bothers me most about IBM drives is they get more and more noisy through time. When I bought their 40GB 5400rpm model I was pleased by its quiet operation. After six months I noticed the drive is somewhat noisy and later the noise became unbearable for me. The same happened to a 20GB. Can anyone confirm these problems? What about their newer drives?
Late last year when it was Quantum Fireball drives that were dropping like flies in our office I got on the phone with a drive repair center in Canada. We were going through the "How much will it cost us to actually retrieve the data from these drives?" discussion and I thought to ask him what brand of drives he sees the *least*.
"SCSI" was his response. "Oh sure," he said "there are fewer of them out there -- but we hardly see any at all."
One of the other interesting things he told me is that the drives included in Quantum's Snap Server appliances, despite being IDE, are *NOT* drives you can buy off the shelf. And he hasn't gotten in a single Snap Server drive in the two years they had been selling them.
I switched from Quantum to IBM drives at the time (ugh!) but had the forsight to put them all in a RAID-1 configuration. We've sent three DeathStars back for repair so far. The good news? IBM had replacements to us in under a week.
I recently switched from IBMs to Maxtor (making sure I wasn't buying Quantum's old stock) and have already had one of their 80Gb drives fail. For the record they are not as responsive as IBM in the RMA department.
So what's the answer folks? You get what you pay for. If you care about your data buy an Adaptec 1200A RAID-1 controller and two drives, or spend the money on a SCSI controller and SCSI drives. So far I haven't found any IDE drive vendors that can sell you a reliable drive (I have dead fujitsu drives around here as well, but must admit that I still haven't tried Western Digital.)
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Yep, I had two D540X drives die on me in the space of two months (the second was the replacement for the first). Incidentally, the reason for the allegedly high die rate on those drives is that they are QUANTUM FIREBALL drives. At least, that's what Maxtor's RMA website told me...
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
And that's the crux: it's alright having the drive under warranty & returning it, but who's to say that any drive they replace it with is not as faulty?
Same thing with Maxtor.
I had a 40GB Maxtor (D540X) die on me three months after buying my computer. They sent me an advance replacement, and two months later that one died. When I called to RMA *THAT* one, and to complain about the short lifespan, they asked if I wanted a "new build instead of a refurbished drive" this time. My response was... HELL YES!
Given that comment from their customer service rep, it sounds like most drives under warranty are replaced with refurbs.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
At least IBM was kind enough to warn you of this on their spec sheets:
60GXP Spec Sheet, Pg 50 of 209
120GXP Spec Sheet, Pg 2 of 2
There's probably one of these for the 75GXP line. But I think it is implied from the get go already, if the clicking doesn't kill you first.
What ever you do, just don't put two of these babies in a TiVo!
My 7200 rpm 34GXP IBM died after only 12 months of light usage (1-2 hr a day) during a game install. I have heard 34GXPs died a lot in other people's boxes (Apple used to ship them in their G4 - we have some in our office - all have died). I have 2 other disks (RAID1/Fujitsu disks) that run 24/7 with heavy usage (busy server) and they have been OK for 2 yr now. My new 7200rpm WD that replaced the IBM has been fine as well.
Of course this doesn't compare to horror stories of people where all 4 IBM disks in a RAID dies within a month. I think the whole GXP line smells bad.
D.
I used to be in the clone mfg business. One thing we determined is that companies go through cycles. For instance, WD has at various times been among the best AND the worst of the manufacturers out there. Seagate has made some wonderful drives and some absolute crap.
Here's a resource I've been watching lately. If anyone has similar things (published reports of reliability from places that deal with dead drives) please follow up to this message.
http://www.driveservice.com/bestwrst.htm
This is a fallacy of poor logic: sample sets of three don't extrapolate to general conclusions. There are people out there who have three + GXP series drives that aren't having any problems. By your logic, they have nothing to worry about.
A poster above has had many UltraStars tank; the lesson being that all brands and types of hard drives can fail. Don't think you're immune. If you haven't been bit yet, chances are good that eventually you will be.
Deskstars also have a three year warranty. You could check before alluding a falsehood.
Smugness is not a substitute for insightful commentary, and is even less appreciated when a lack of logic and facts are present.
As I sent over to Kyle at [H]ardOCP a week or so ago....
d el=WD1200BB
4 766e.html ) this drive has a MTBF of 150,000 hours.
2 5.html
Well lets see if we take your math further that;
333hours/mo * 12months *5 years (off the graphic you posted) = 19,980 hours total. That's Horrible!
([H]ardOCP http://www.hardocp.com had posted a graphic from IBM's documentation that said the expected life of the drive was 5 years, hence the 5 above)
Lets see WesternDigital rates their 120G at 500,000 hours on the bottom of ; http://www.wdc.com/products/current/drives.asp?Mo
Lets compare a High end, high quality drive the Cheetah X15 it has a MTBF of 1,200,000 hours!
Ok lets play fair and compare it to something a little older like it is how about a Seagate ST4766E 667meg hd circa 3/29/90 (according to the bad sector sticker on the drive). According to Seagates web site ( http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/esdi/st
Lets try something older. How about an old ST 225, nope that's got a MTBF of 100,000 hours. http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/mfm/st2
Hmmm do you think if we grind enough IBM drives up we can make some lemonade?
Sick of stupidity? http://www.patentlystupid.com
I can't stand hype, and thats what this article does. It polarizes the two sides of potential conflict. Yes the drives from hugarian factory failed. Yes these drives get very HOT. So, get some spacing and have a cooling system in place, or at least some sort of air flow maintanace.
...
I have on 60GXP from Singapore(?) and & 75GXP. I spaced them properly, and placed holes where they are located, so that powersupply fan would pull air around them. I never had any problems yet!
IBM excellent drives, if they be more understanding to the issue, it would be great, but making people hate great product, instead of instructing them how to work around the problem, that most other drives have is to say the least is counter productive. But then thats what reading slashdot is all about anyway