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CD-ROMs with Books -- Worth Your While?
An anonymous submitter sends: "I'm working on a new book which would have the Open Source/Linux/BSD/etc community as its target audience, and the editors are very interested in having a CD-ROM included with it. I personally feel that a CD only adds a few bucks to the cost for negligible benefit, since the code is probably outdated by the time you get it. What are your thoughts? Do you get something out of having the code on CD, or would you rather have references in the book or online and download the software yourself? (And lest you wonder why I'm posting as AC, this is a serious question, not a PR attempt.)" I have several technical books with CD-ROMs. I've never used any of them. I'd rather the book have an accompanying website to provide code and errata. But maybe other people feel differently.
Coaster.
Tyler's words coming out of my mouth.
I would be willing to pay a good deal more if publishers would include a PDF of the book on the CD. While I know this is not going to happen, its the only reason a CD would have any real use.
Put the code on the website, most everyone has internet access. If you are concerned about those who do not, have a mail in offer for the CD and charge for the price of shipping & handling.
I have never used a CD from a book either. The number of people who would buy a technical book and not have internet access to download anything that would have been put on the CD is probably small enough not to be worth distributing one. Other than that what would be the benefit of a CD?
I remember a time when I anxiously scanned the back of every book for the contents of the included CDROM. This was back when my net connection was 14.4. Today, I think you're right. The contents of CDs are almost always outdated or some shareware version of an application that can be downloaded from the Net. Then again, some people may not give up their old habits. Your book could be left on the shelf because it's lacking that lump on the back page. Do you want utility or sales...
Maybe the topic can determine the level of the audience. If your book has an animal on the cover, go with the website. If the title includes "in 21 days" then go with the CD.
I think most titles would benefit if they were released in stand-alone CD format as well as in hardcover/softcover, because:
1) Some people dig that kind of thing.
2) CDs would probably be a lot cheaper to make, although they would still be a rip-off to purchase. We already know that CDs are cheaper than tapes, a secret that the record industry failed to keep.
3) CDs are more portable, and it would be nice if you could save the CD-book to your hard drive.
4) CDs obviously can present better visual and audio media. A CD-Book would kind of be the DVD for the literature industry. . . More features and knick-knacks, deleted chapters, yadda yadda.
Of course, this doesn't mean that people won't copy them and threaten to destroy the industry's efforts at the multimedia market.
Meanwhile, I find that CDs included with books can help only if they can easily illustrate what the book says. A good example is the character creation CD that was sold along with 3rd edition D&D players' guides. Include more useful information and programs on the CD.
When I was getting started with Linux and I didn't have any high-speed Internet access, the discs in the books I got really got me on the road nicely. However, now that I have been using Linux for a couple years, I usually just tear 'em out and never even look at them.
Well, ask yourself - are you targetting the savvy, internet experienced people with broadband, or are you targetting an introductory crowd?
When I was younger, I bought a Java book that came with a CD. In those days I didn't have high-speed internet, and (more importantly) I didn't really have much understanding of how to research things, or find out which packages were best for me.
I would recommend that if your book takes the attitude that your readers are experienced and savvy, a few words on locations to find the software would be much more valuable than the value-added-CD that comes in the back. But if you're targetting a crowd that perhaps isn't as comfortable navigating, finding out which versions of software to trust and rely on, then I would say definitely include your "Picks" for which software packages are trustworthy, up-to-date, et cetera.
Chances are, the advanced user wouldn't trust the CD, so code out-datedness wouldn't be as crucial, whereas the beginner would be satisfied not having bleeding-edge code.
These are just my opinions - I know that I typically no longer use CDs that come with the books I buy, but I also know that if I were a beginner (particularly modem-based) I would probably swear by them.
Unless there is something you really want to include that is just too big to be downloaded easily by 56kers. Unfortunately, many people still seem to be limited in this regard, and even I don't really want to download hundreds of megs on a cable modem.
Apart from that, anyone who does open source or other types of coding already has net access, so it is not worth even a few bucks. For just source code and maybe some binaries, just make sure you have a good web or ftp site available.
I have dozens of CDROMs that came with books that I have never touched. The one exception was one that had a 50MB source tar that I didn't feel like waiting to download from a slow site.
If you know of any similar books to yours, you might want to put the cd in there for competition's sake. People might make a choice on which book to buy based on "Includes packed CD-ROM!!" on the cover.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
With cable/DSL connections, the constant change of open-source software, and that the publishers usually add at least $10 to the price. I see it as a bad bad thing. I do like the idea of a pdf of the book though but if you can't do that give a great index.
I would like to say that I use the CDs. I always mean to use them. Never really seam to.
However, whenever I hit a snag I reach for that book. As much as I love technology there is nothing easier than looking in the index of a book and finding (hopefully) what you need quickly and easily.
I've done it 4 times today alone.
-- No Comment
Assuming the info on the CD is of a substantial size. The benefit to a dialup user can be great. I would much rather dl patches at 56k than an entire large project. Plus It can give a reader/user an idea of modules for certain projects. Plus it's nice to have a reference to start from.
"as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee" - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz. (One man's humorous is another mans flamebait)
If you're only going to need space for code, then use a website instead. It allows for easy/smoother updates.
I find it immensly useful to have the text of the book on the CD that accompanies it.
Everything else I prefer to have on a website. Of course if the website ever becomes defunct and I go to look for it I'm not a happy camper.
In short I think the CDs are added to justify selling a $70 text book for $128. $58 multiplied by all the text books I had to buy... Well I'd have less college debt right now.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
Actually, if you believe in free software you should include it. 5 years from now the publisher may go bankrupt, you may be unavailable and the book may be useless without the code, which will be abandonware...
Secondly, I have a broadband connection, but I find I reach for the CD first because it's right there and it's easier/faster/etc.
Lastly, I have a book which doesn't include the source code on an media, but does include it online - the problem is that it doesn't include COMMENTS! The code printed in the book does have comments, so I can only assume they are trying to make the online code useful only to those that have the book - the reality being that it's almost less useful.
It adds a buck. It is useful for 10% of those who buy it, and it is a marketting gimmick. There really isn't a reason to not go with it.
But PLEASE include the text of the book on CD if you can manage it! PLEASE?!??!
-Adam
If it's just code samples or small applications, I'd definitely rather have a link to an online resource. I've never used most of the CD's I have gotten packaged with books. There are two notable exceptions:
1) when the subject material requires access to an application larger than 20-30 MB (big enough so that downloading the latest version isn't practical for some people)
2) a searchable reference. Whether the reference is supplemental to the book or is the exact same material as the book, having it in a searchable electronic format can be very nice.
include $sig;
1;
My problems with CDs in books are:
- they raise the cost of already expensive books
- they are usually just jammed full of demo-crap (as though giving me "free" demo software was a benefit)
- they never come with cases, so if you pull it out of the book, you have to find your own way of storing it
- you're left with a large ring in the back of your book (maybe you could use this to your advantage with the ladies...but...)
If you're technical enough to be reading a technical book, you should be able to download a few files (usually very small code fragments) from the InformationSuperHighway(tm).Patience is a virtue, but I don't have the time - TH
Why? Well, what use is a four year old copy of Python when I can download a current version just as easily? I'd have been happier if that one was a couple bucks cheaper, just as I was happy about the blurbs on the back of Philip & Alex's Guide to Web Publishing and Mac OS9 Missing Manual saying that avoiding the cd keeps costs down while allowing you to get more up to date software. As a paying customer, I appreciate that sort of consideration for my needs and my wallet. So to me, it's kind of a tradeoff among several factors. In no particular order:
Deciding what way to go is a matter of looking at factors like these & others, and evaluating what you're trying to provide for your customer and what their expectations are likely to be over time. If the digital material is just a supplement to the book, and can be easily downloaded, then most customers will probably appreciate it if you save them a few bucks & don't include the CD. On the other hand, if the book is really a supplement to the discs, and the digital material is difficult or impossible to download (for bandwidth, copyright, or other reasons) then including the CD media is a good idea. Find out where things seem to balance and make your decision from there.
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
The CD's are useful if they contain the code examples from the book, but personally I would rather see a website...
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
When it comes to a choice between a CD or online media for source code I would personally rather have the CD. I don't want a CD with free demos of shit and I definitely don't need yet another copy of Borland for Windows. However for a book with code samples or free resources like icons or license free graphics, I want a CD. Far too many times have I tried to follow an old hyperlink to something and had it not be there. Unless you get some sort of web analog of a cemetary's real estate contract I don't want shit on the web. If I'm trying to look something up quickly I don't want to run into a bunch of dead links which will inevitably happen. I like the info there in front of my in easily searchable and preferably indexed HTML. Provide an HTML bookmarks file that I can import into IE or Netscape too. If you're going to provide a shitload of references don't put the onus on me to organize the damn things. Out of date software I can deal with as long as you provide information on where I can get an updated version. What concerns me are code samples and digital copies of the text in the book.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Binaries usually are out of date, especially when you consider that most publishers rarely seem to update the CDs, even for newer editions of the book.
Now, if the CDs had CVS tarballs instead, then it shouldn't be so much trouble to update everything. Just plop the contents down somewhere, and pull source on top. Don't forget to use -z6 though, else it still might take a good long time before you have something buildable.
And yeah, sample code from the book, that's worthwhile, always! Saves the trouble of typing it in by hand, fixing errors (there's always at least one when copying from a book by hand), etc. ad nauseum.
Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment
Another alternative is to offer to send a CD for a few bucks more, and let the rest of the readers use your website. That's probably the best for the readers.
I'm USian, but it strikes me that our friends overseas might appreciate the CD so they don't have to download stuff over their dialups, which I understand to be orders of magnitude more expensive than those in the US.
just a thought.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
All CDs in technical books ever did were make it easier for my school to refuse to buy them back.
"I'll say it again for the logic-impaired." -- Larry Wall.
The only time I find a CD really useful is when it is included with some type of certification book and includes practice exams. Other than that, I generally never open them. Some people, however, will go to great lengths to get the CD. At Borders the other day, I picked up an IT book that I intended to buy and when flipping through, noticed that someone had torn open the CD envelope and stolen the CDs! Since I didn't need the CDs anyway, I asked the clerk for a discount and got 25% off. I was pleased. Whoever stole them is really hard up, though.
And vice versa - there is room for a complete index on the CD: Every word of the book: Chapter, verse, and page number. In some neat searchable format and in plain greppable ascii text! Other than that, I second the adivce given so far: Don't bother for advanced readers, for beginners it might help. Add whole text of the book on the CD, again in searchable format and/or plain text.
In Murphy We Turst
I always junk the CD as soon as I get the book just so I can flex it properly to find info. It always annoys me because it means I can't return the book if it turns out to be useless. I try to determine that in the store before I plunk down the 60-75 bucks, but sometimes I'm wrong.
I favor books that don't have the CD for this reason, as a bonus it tends to save a few $$ too. I rarely return a book (maybe 1 in a 100) so it's more a matter of feeling denied my wallet vote than an actual monetary loss.
Maybe I shouldn't be reading ancient computer books, but I have read some books that had code on a disk that you had to order from them, but when the book goes out of print and the author leaves his university, or the address otherwise changes, there's kind of nothing you can do to get the code again. At least if there'd been a CD (well, the book was old enough that it would have been a floppy) I would have had a fighting chance.
Even in a networked world, it's good to have CDs. If I go on a long trip, I always bring debian-powerpc-nonus disc 1 or 1, so I can boot off of it in case something goes wrong and I can't get to a solid network. I have to burn my own image, of course, but if I had an Official Debian GNU/Linux CD that came with a book I'd probably prefer that, just because it would deteriorate slightly more slowly.
And there's a lot to be said for having a frozen image of how the code looked when the book was released. Updates, and even full code, on the website, yes, but also, if it's like a book that describes a specific version of GCC or something, having exactly the version that the author used has its advantages (and disadvantages).
Personally, I don't like cds to come in my books. I prefer an accompanying web site. I do see positives and negatives for this though.
On the positive side, with a web site you could easily keep the code up to date and make corrections to bugs and errors, it might reduce the cost of the book and even speed up production if you don't have to develop a cd, and the book is easier to return. Its also nice because if the cd has been taken before you get the book (like if its from the library) then the source is still available.
On the other hand, how long will you keep the web site up to date? Will the money for the man hours, hosting costs, etc. that will go into the project fade after the book has been out for a year or so? How about in 5 years? If so, then the book without the source code available could be pretty much useless. In that case, a cd at least could still be useful where the web site might be gone.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
1. 10 meg of useful stuff, 600 meg of crap. (Gotta fill up that CD!!)
2. Blank CD = 30 cents
Book with CD = $20 (or more) extra
RWs because well they may contain somthing outdated but can also be updated or use for something else and still used as an optional coaster if need be.
This will also allow them to put any notes or applications writtin around the book to be stored near by and with relavence....
Maybe put a copy of the book on the cd. sometimes when i most need the book it is at home while im at a friends house or work. and its not uncommon for me to take CDs with me in my bag o-goodies.
Before I had an internet connection, I bought a book on Linux that came with a distro of RedHat. In fact, this was the selling point of the book, to me, at least. It was cheaper than a full version and the book explained everything in terms of that specific distro. Plus, downloading an ISO is impossible on a 56k connection. I'd take all the comments about "everyone has DSL now" with a grain of salt and remember who you are asking. As for the extra programs and scripts that the author put on the cd, however, I never even looked at them.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
I admit, you usually have to go the site for corrections & updates.
HOWEVER. Many times, publishers & authors do not validate their links. Or they'll put Popups and garbage on their site that I (a paying customer) don't want to deal with. Another is trying to download the files or source code. It's got some dynamic & obscur link through Akamai.com or what not that uses http "index.html"s to protect the files. I'm personally tired of 404 error cause the resource has been moved.
If you make something available for your customers to download, that is part of a book - say source code - make sure you don't move it around. Make an FTP server with an Index by ISBN numbers or Authors then Titles.
There's nothing more frustration than having to manually type in a ton of code cause some webmaster wanted to "re-architech HER/HIS" website so it's trendy. We are geeks and we are not *fashionable*.
it's worth the extra $1 or .50 cents to have it in your hands. That's cheaper than photo copying 25 pages of text or downloading a distro or having the material on your computer to search.
So ask yourself How much is your time worth to find it? when you looked where it was supposed to have been. I'm sure it 's more than the $1 to have the CD on hand. If you want to use it as coaster, that's your choice -- not mine.
I think the CD is a way for the editors to marginally increase the cost of a book, but substantially increase the profit.
It seems like books with a CD attached seem to cost about $20 more than books without.
Maybe they should offer an extended warranty too.
One thing that hasn't really been covered in the discussion is whether or not the book you're writing is intended to be a textbook. Also consider whether or not it has a good chance of being adopted as such, even if that's not how it's going to be marketed.
Among my college courses have been several programming classes. While I already knew C/C++ to some degree, and didn't need the CD or supplemental material for those classes, the CD has been a godsend for my Java class. It contains the code for every single example in the book, every single example in the instructor's powerpoint presentation, and a few more programs as well. (It even includes the powerpoint files so you don't have to take lecture notes, as you have the slides yourself!) There's a ton of stuff on the CD, a student on dial-up would have a difficult time getting it all.
One thing I've learned about textbooks' websites, especially when I'm trying to hunt down errata, is that publishers' websites are very obfuscated. Even if the textbook gives a link directly to the publisher's page about that book instead of to their home page - which isn't always the case - finding what you need can be problematic. You have to wade through promotions for the new edition(s) of the book, lists of other books by the same author, etc. before you can find what you're looking for.
Not to mention, not everyone has broadband, or even internet access at all. It sounds a bit odd, but several of the people in my C/C++ classes didn't even have computers at home, much less a fat pipe (after all, some people are furthering their education because their broke-ass parents' check-bouncing lifestyle is exactly what they want to avoid). They were limited to what they could do in the computer lab on campus. Since you're rarely going to get the same machine in the computer lab twice, having to navigate your way through a website and re-download various bits of code can get tedious. This is much easier when it's right there on a CD.
If your book is going to be a textbook, please include the CD. A textbook should include everything the student needs to learn the material, supplements shouldn't be limited to certain students. If you aren't writing a textbook but it winds up being used as one anyway, put the CD in the next edition.
Good luck with your book!
I hate getting a book home, and seeing that the "last 50 chapters by 50 different authors" are on the CD and CD only, and the book doesn't talk about anything it should.
While i do believe in open source and don't like proprietary programs especially if they're crap I would recommend that you do the following things: - Complete index of the book including the table of contents that is easilly searchable - Have book under some sort of licence (GNU Free Documentation License) that makes it available on the web after a certain period of time (like Free as in Freedom: Richard Stallman's Crusade - Have a proprietary program (for the publishers sake) that has the book in some sort of encoded and/or encrypted format - make sure that this program can run on WIN9X->XP, OS 9 & X, and all versions of LINUX - Have backup URL's to other places that are guaranteed to have more info if the publisher goes under
In the UK (and presumably the rest of the EU), if a book includes a CD, it becomes liable for VAT (our sales tax) at 17.5%. Hence, I generally steer clear of books with CDs. Now if the content can be downloaded from the web, that;'s far more useful. If you're not planning on selling the bookin Europe then I guess this isn't a problem.
Take the simple example of a HTML/JavaScript reference I have; the book is basically a list of the various HTML tags and JavaScript commands grouped by type with a description and usage guide. It also comes with the entire book on CD in a searchable format, so if you want to do some obscure thing with the TABLE tag say, you can search on TABLE and get a complete template to cut and paste as required, complete with documentation of each sub-TAG.
I don't know where the book is, but the CD is in my laptop carrycase's CD box next to the O'Reilly Perl Bookshelf CD...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
and, i haven't read many of the posts but here's my 2cents.
It really depends on the book. If the book is written on a piece of software at a specific version:I think the CdROM should have *that* version on it. It will keep the book aligned with the cd-rom. How would you like to be a newbie, trying to install RedHat 7.2 when the book you have is on 6.2? Granted, there isn't much difference on RedHat installs, but what about other distro's? To a newbie, it would totally turn them off to Linux and that's not really a good thing.
I think another option is to make an ISO on a website with the current software/manuals/quizzers/whatever else. The bad thing is, if this is a beginners book, again...they might not know how to use an ISO, much less have an OS installed on their machine. who knows....time to sleep....
From 'Ask Tim', March 2002 (in response to a question about putting the actual book on CD).
Now, to your first question. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a searchable text version of each book available on CD-ROM in the back of the book? Yes, it would be nice. Unfortunately, it's not economically all that viable. The cost of printing and binding in a CD-ROM increases the manufacturing cost of a book by about 50%, believe it or not. And remember that the publisher receives less than 50% of the cover price of the book, with the rest going to retailers and other middlemen. As a result, most books containing CDs end up being priced at $5-$10 more than books without CDs. (Simply to recover manufacturing costs, a book with a CD needs to be priced about $3 higher; usually, the publisher tries to make a little profit as well, especially if the CD assembles some real added-value information.) But how many of those CDs would go unused? For every reader who would love the CD in the back of the book, you're taxing others who might not. This is why David Pogue's Missing Manual series waggishly includes a picture of a CD on the inside back cover of each book, with the title "The Missing CD" and a reminder that you just saved $5, and can go to www.missingmanuals.com for the utilities and other goodies that might otherwise be on a CD in the back of the book.
My job takes me all over the country and I simply cannot lug hundreds of pounds of books around with me, so when publishers include a copy of their book on a CD then I am far more likely to buy that book than a book that does not include a CD. Also, a book like Hacking Exposed that writes about literally dozens of utilities is serving their customer well when they include all of those utilities on a CD-ROM. I do not have the time to go searching all over their web site looking for those tools and then download them and then burn them to my own CD so that I can move the programs easily between my computers, it's just not worth it... I would rather have the CD included in the book.
I bought my trusty N** R***** Debian GNU/Linux a while back, which included 2.1 on CD. Last week, I popped that in a new box, installed, then ran apt-get dist-upgrade and I'm good to go.
this box is at work, so it didn't really matter, but at home where I'm stuck with 56k, this would have been the only option.
If you are thinking about including enough files that are big enough, definately put the CD in. I don't buy books just because they have CD's, but sometimes it's nice. Depends on the topic, obviously anything including a distro NEEDS it, anything with examples or small stuff it's just much easier to put the website.
As far as the pdf discussion, maybe more people need to look at the GNU Free Documentation license: http://laespiral.org/fdl.html I think anyone publishing ANYTHING related to Linux or GNU Tools should use that, include the cd with the manual or put the link on how to get it. 90% of the time it's easier to just pop open the book, but what if I'm not in the same location as the book? Plus, my Unix CD Bookshelf that I keep at home takes up less space than the book set.
Include it if you need it, but open your documentation to distribute.
my 2 cents
Don't bother with a CD - have it available, and current, for download.
It seems to have been swallowed by Barnes Ignoble.