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Lineo near Death

An anonymous reader notd a bit running on LinuxGram about Lineo about ready to croak. It paints a pretty bleak view of the Linux embedded system company. Oddly enough, I'm still not exactly sure what they were trying to do.

25 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Simple Explanation by Dead+Penis+Bird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It was also reportedly spending $40,000 a month on an office in San Mateo, California to house 10 people

    It's simple why this company is going bankrupt. It's poor management like in the example above. There are likely to be many others like it.

    It's time business retreats from the glitz and gets back to basics: making money.

    --

    If I weren't nailed to the penis, I'd be pushing up the daisies!

    1. Re:Simple Explanation by cornice · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Poor management? Of course it is but let's look at the pressure to do this.

      For example, a close friend of mine was working for a company working on PKI stuff. They had hundreds of millions in funding from a prominent international investment bank. They were told repeatedly that they were not spending fast enough! There were some suggestions that subsequent rounds of funding hinged upon meeting a specific burn rate. Obviously this all changed very quickly and all funding dried up and so did the company.

      So who is to blame? Yes management is ultimately responsible and no excuse is going to bring the company back but it should be noted that the decisions that were made were not as irrational as they seemed.

    2. Re:Simple Explanation by Otter · · Score: 4, Funny
      I'm not a CEO, but I am the corporate controller for a small electronics firm

      I'm wondering which is a worse sign for a business -- paying $40K/month to house 10 employees or having the Penis Bird Guy as your corporate controller. ;-)

    3. Re:Simple Explanation by ghjm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uhhh..wait. I don't think this is all that far above market rates for Class A office space in that area, particularly if they have any facilities for a server room, break room, etc. How much do you think office space in California is supposed to cost?

  2. Yes, odd indeed by TheGreenLantern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oddly enough, I'm still not exactly sure what they were trying to do.

    Which pretty much explains why they are going under, doesn't it? If you can't get your point across to those that are interested in what you are doing, you have no hope when it comes to the rest of the world.

    --

    It hurts when I pee.
  3. What they were doing by fruey · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Oddly enough, I'm still not exactly sure what they were trying to do.

    Well, if you read the article right at the end, they made / participated in the Embedded Linux for Sharp PDAs.

    Of course, bad management is what causes bankruptcies like this. 70 staff and only Sharp on the books, with royalties coming in a year later?

    I bet they were all screwing around with cool Linux kernel stuff and forgetting to sell it to anyone as a practical application. Hehe.

    --
    Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
  4. How can this be? by fmaxwell · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ten to twenty years from now, people are going to be shaking their heads in bewilderment about the attempts to make money selling "free software." They will react in much the same way that we do when people mention "New Coke".

    1. Re:How can this be? by JordoCrouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Somebody mod this back up... He's an idiot, but he would be right, if thats all they were doing.

      But you see, they wern't selling free software. They were trying to sell closed source software leveraged off of free software, and (more importantly) the expertise to combine the two.

      They failed because of their they way they ran their business, and many, many management missteps along the way.

      If Redhat goes under, then you might question the intellegence of selling free software, until then, don't give the Lineo management so much credit. Put the blame where it belongs: not on "free" software, but rather really bad business.

      --
      Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
    2. Re:How can this be? by JordoCrouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every failed Linux-centric company had 'value added' proprietary software that they sold

      As did every failed Windows-centric company, and every failed Oracle-centric company, and every failed Solaris-centric company.... Failure is not exclusive to the Linux world, though, the media may make you feel differently. This is an unfortunate side effect of being a media darling. They love you when you are doing well, and love you even more when you are failing.

      And the reason is simple: Linux is viewed as "free software." And by "Linux", I mean the OS, the tools, everything. There is an entire subculture that finds the notion of paying for software offensive (though many of them want to get paid for writing it at their jobs).

      But there also another entire group of large corporations that doe not want to pay thousands of dollars for propriatary operating system licences, not to mention costs for customized applications. If I can deliver the same application, minus an expensive licence for the operating system, wouldn't that make some sense?

      Nobody ever said that Lineo was selling to the average Linux affcionado. Nobody, and I mean nobody will ever make money doing that. I would rather chew off my left arm than buy something from a company like Lineo, especially when I can write it myself.

      Lineo was selling to the big boys, corporations who see the value in paying $20 an unit for an solution, instead of $120.

      --
      Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
  5. Best Quote of the Article by EraseEraseMe · · Score: 3, Insightful


    It's said a lot of embedded engineers regard Linux as "that operating system for pimple-faced computer science nerds dressed in T-shirts they brought at the last 'Star Trek' convention."

    This, coupled with "Embedded experts claim the embedded space is practically impossible to play in these days if all you have is an operating system, especially when the OS is basically immaterial to the embedded designer. The fact that Linux is ostensibly free is also reportedly a hurdle to design-wins in view of Lineo's royalty proposition." would seem to indicate what I had thought all along..."Linux is not the be-all and end-all"

    --
    "Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
  6. Thought they were all gone by now by moankey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Didnt know there were still companies around that dont have a clear plan a lots of money to throw around. I thought 2001 was the year that all bad and some good companies went down for the count.

    Nothing too surprising or new to read here, just another technology company that was riding the tech boom and investor ignorance.

  7. Bankruptcy. by saintlupus · · Score: 5, Funny

    It paints a pretty bleak view of the Linux embedded system company.

    If only they'd changed their focus in time. They could have been a survivor, like VA Ice Cream And Adult Novelties.

    --saint

  8. This is just flat out *wrong* by BurritoWarrior · · Score: 5, Insightful

    n fact, a fair number of the last paychecks of the 50 people laid off reportedly didn't clear the bank. Paychecks paid to current employees at the end of March didn't have any funds to cover them either and automatic deposits weren't made.

    The people in charge know long before all the money runs out that things are in bad shape. It doesn't sound like they notified any of their employees or gave them any warning so that they could look for other jobs.

    Cripes. People have bills to pay and families to feed. Doesn't anyone have a shred of decency anymore?

    1. Re:This is just flat out *wrong* by penguin_nipple · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Cripes. People have bills to pay and families to feed. Doesn't anyone have a shred of decency anymore?

      From my experience I can give a resounding 'no' to that. There is no decency unfortunatley. I was a research devloper at a Canadian University in the dept. of physics and computing. Our research group is/was a "Center for Excellence" and we developed two fully functional laser simulators of the Quantum Well and VCSEL variety. Things were progressing for 2 years, and the projects both reached decent beta stage.

      Our entire research group was summarily laid of on a lovely friday afternoon at 5:30. No warning, no heads-up, no consideration.

      Personally I was insulted but I can tell you, I am not the first, nor the last that this has happened to...

      Mind you the educational institution referred to here had no problem highlighting our research group and some of my other research projects in glossy fliers in order to attract attention to new students and the general populace.

      Oh the irony of being highlighted in promo material by the marketroids and concurrently bitchslapped by the accounting dept. in one fell swoop.

    2. Re:This is just flat out *wrong* by Nehemiah+S. · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's what you get for being at work at 5:30 PM on a Friday. If you'd left early to party (like any self-respecting physicist) they'd have had to wait until monday to fire you.

      And would probably have waited until the next friday, to "avoid incidents"; if you had left early then too, and every friday since, I bet you'd still have a job.

      The moral of this story is obvious ( /me looks at watch- one more hour :)

      --
      ... and there is no doubt, that one day he will be
      where the eye of his telescope has already been
  9. Any Open Source/Linux/BSD Companies doing well? by toupsie · · Score: 3, Insightful
    There is a tendency in news coverage to hype the bad and forget the good. That holds true with Slashdot -- with a parent like VA/Whatever-they-are-calling-themselves-today how could you not?

    Is there anyone out there in the OpenSource Business World that is doing it right, making a profit and kicking corporate butt? The Mandrake Club sounds like a glimmer of hope. It would be interesting to read of stories where code freedom equals profits.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    1. Re:Any Open Source/Linux/BSD Companies doing well? by C.+Mattix · · Score: 3, Informative
      From RedHats SEC 10-Q Filing.
      • Gross Profit on Subscription and Services: $40,565,000
      • Total Operating Expenses: $150,509,000
      • Net Loss for 9 month period ending November 2001: $-97,965,000

      That doesn't seem that healthy to me, especially since 1 year ago the net loss was $-62,495,000. And Open Source Services only counted for $13,641,000 of the revenue.

  10. Capitalize? by alanwj · · Score: 3, Funny
    "recapitalized going forward and a new capitalization structure worked out with existing investors."
    So how come the whole quote is in lowercase? Or is lowercase their new capitalization structure?

  11. Poor business model by steevo.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lineo was far too specialized for their own good.

    I used to work for one of the biggest technology companies, and one of the projects I was working with was a device that was used an imbedded OS. WindRiver was used at first, then after their licencing became far too expensive, they went to Linux. Not having the expertise themselves to develop everything, they went to Red Had. I am not trying to say that RH is everything, but they offered everything this project needed, and at a decent price. If RH didn't get our account, that's OK, as they have other businesses to keep them going.

    Lineo does not have that kind of diversification. They are/were far to specialized for their own good.

  12. when will they ever learn? by Michael_Jarvis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a former employee of Merinta (an embedded Linux company that went under in May 2001), I am very sympathetic to the Lineo employees. I guess I was fortunate--at least Merinta never bounced a paycheck, and our CEO (Camillo Martino) gave us a heads-up before we actually ran out of money.

    Linux shows so much promise in the embedded market, but it will never get there until companies wise up and start using sound business practices. I am so sick and tired of seeing companies with great ideas and talented people fail because they have incompetent management with poor spending practices.

    Having millions of dollars in venture capital funding does not mean your company is "successful" or "wealthy". It means you have been trusted with money to make your idea work. Don't go out and blow the money on Aeron chairs, fancy offices and glitzy parties. Spend it wisely, and use it to get your product out the door. When your company is generating REAL revenue and profit, THEN you can consider celebrating.

    Blowing venture capital on stupid things is about the same as maxing out a personal credit card on luxury items in my book. It's just plain stupid.

    I feel so passionately about this issue because I've seen so many companies go under, where the workers suffer because of poor management. Enron is a really big example, but there are hundreds if not thousands of "dot-coms" that did the same thing to their workers.

    I hope TUXIA is still doing well, and I hope they learn from the mistakes of others in the marketplace.

  13. Problem with Making Money with Linux Services by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Funny
    Everyone talks about how you should make money with services. Well a few years ago, I set up a guy with a linux based web server and hacked out some scripts to keep 4 modems dialed out and bonded at the same time. Just recently I ran across his E-Mail address and sent him an E-Mail asking him if I'd pissed him off or something since I hadn't heard from him in ages. He told me no, and the machine I set him up with was still running great.

    Having to keep finding new customers is a royal pain in the ass. You're much better off with Windows, where they keep coming back...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  14. I've got some lineo products by Restil · · Score: 5, Informative

    They sell, among other things, a full linux compatible embedded system that fits completely on a single simm chip (30 and 72 pin varieties). Along with 10mbps ethernet, there are several I/O lines available for interfacing with the outside world. The systems I have run at 33mhz and use extremely low power as well as a sleep mode that uses even less. Basically, it can easily function off of nothing more than a small solar cell. It only needs something like 70 mA at 3.3 volts, even less if ethernet isn't being used.

    The big problem with its design is, I don't think it scratches a big itch. Its primary useful application is for prototyping. Any company that makes embedded products might want to develop their software using such a device for testing, but if they plan to produce anything remotely resembling significant quantities, they'll lay out their own embedded design to better fit the application at hand.

    Also, except in the tiny portable computer market, extremely low power doesn't make much sense. If the product being developed has no power restrictions tied to it (it gets power from the outlet for instance), then the entire advantage of this device is thrown out the window. I've done an analysis of the chips on their board, and it could be built for 1/4 the price if more power hungry versions were used instead. Also, if this
    device will be primarily used for prototyping, and there IS a market for such devices, there's no reason to make them work off solar cells. As long as they remain compatible with low power models, they'll be just as effective, and a whole lot cheaper in the long run. And if they're less expensive people will purchase a LOT more of them.
    Even the hobby market could support them if only they were priced more reasonably.

    But regardless of all of that, face the fact, Lineo is a legacy dot com company. They spend more money than they have, and it shows.

    -Restil

    --
    Play with my webcams and lights here
  15. Re:Explain This, Please by grytpype · · Score: 3, Funny

    >SLC is pretty damned "major" if you ask me.

    I would agree with you, but I've actually seen SLC.

    --

    - Have a picture

  16. Re:New Coke by John+Harrison · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is shipped from the factory. You can order it on the internet at www.dublindrpepper.com. I bothered to link to it in the parent post. Also, you can get it in glass bottles, which is even better than the can. Finally, I purchase it at the local fancy-pants market, where it goes for $1.50 for a 12 oz bottle. That is, I used to purchase it.

  17. System doesn't work that way. by fm6 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It doesn't sound like they notified any of their employees or gave them any warning so that they could look for other jobs.
    Face it, the whole system penalizes that kind of honesty. If you're running a big company, and you keep your troubles secret, you might be able to save the company -- and your job. But if you're too open, the investors will bail on you, and you'll find yourself out of a job -- even if the company itself survives. You might consider it selfish to put your own job security above that of your workers. But isn't the whole system built on precisely that kind of selfishness?

    It's not just employees that get screwed, of course.

    • Companies that are short of cash often resort to "Accounts Payable financing": ordering supplies they know they can't afford. If things turn around, they can pay off then. And if they don't, it doesn't really matter how much you owe, does it. Well, it doesn't matter to you. The suppliers might feel differently.
    • Your customers are presumably going around assuming you'll still be in business tomorrow. If you don't tell them you're in trouble, they're screwed. But if you do tell them, you're screwed. Consider the typical airline bankruptcy. Never announced until the planes stop flying -- much to the dismay of people who haven't quite made it home yet.
    Need I go on?