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Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro
batobin writes "Looks like Apple is expanding their grasp on the film editing industry with their new release of Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro. It enables FCP 3 to better manage film and 24 fps high density video. The product is expected to ship in May."
OK, so why is this in the iPod Category?
Somewhere in the heavens... they are waiting.
All graphics should be in ASCII, Anything else would be large and use more than .003% of my 386's CPU. :)
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
...it reads "Media (Apple)"...d'uh
it should be noted that this is one of the products they bought with the acquisition of FilmLogic. So they didn't develop this themselves.
Impressive product nonetheless !
What is more fascinating : consider this 24P stuff from a bandwidth point of view and think about the recent firewire related news. Native HD is going to require quite a bit more firewire bandwidth than 400mbps. Can 1600mbps firwire be that far behind?
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
Excellent! Now maybe I can erase that FAGGY FAGGY Premiere from my drive and use some NON-CONSUMER editing software.
Premiere is okay for those of you who have not had the religious experience that is working with AVID. Compared to AVID, Premiere is a worthless, Pinnacle Video-level sack of bits.
Now, Premiere's After Effects/Photoshop intergration is incredibly sweet, something that AVIDDV doesn't do exactly right.
Also, AVIDDV is NT-only for some goddamned reason (unless that's changed since I knuckled under and spent $2k on the NT port). So, once I get this new software, I'll actually be able to USE the G4 machine that, because I've no professional-level editing software for it, has been sitting on my desk, gathering dust.
Why is it when I hit ^R that ZSH calls me a cocksucker?
It costs $2000 dollars to buy both packages. If you add the cost of a mac which is probably going to run for about $2000 ( if you don't have a mac that is) the price comes to about $4000. How many people can actually afford that?
Oh well, I'm just gonna stick to my PC.
Take it you've never checked prices for a Film AVID system? FilmAVID costs (since I last checked) $32k. Thirty. Two. Thousand. Dollars. American.
Just for the software.
Add in an AVIDMedia Capture Card, that's your paltry $4k right there, just for the capture card.
Add in the Film Capture device, another $12-15k. Then you've got your RAIDs, your SP decks ($8-12k, depending on the brand), your monitors (not cheapass NTSC teevees, we're talking real-live production monitors, they run about $500 each, and you need at least one), and not to mention minimum of TWO >19" monitors to edit with.
All in all, to edit film on an AVID system, you're looking at about $65k for a "good" system.
$4k for a G4 box and the Final Cut bundle = DIRT FUCKING CHEAP.
Not to mention that the people that this software is marketed to make $4k on a slow week (shit, I videograph weddings and parties and I make $50/hr)
Why is it when I hit ^R that ZSH calls me a cocksucker?
And since they bought out Nothing Real, this doesn't actually come as a surprise.
Ordo Militum Unix.
Hackers? Mating? Wouldn't this just be a lot of stories about late nights looking at Pr0n?
Has any else noticed that the primary buyers of Apple's nowadays are film/photo people? They certianly have a solid market there, but I think it odd that they push themselves so much to compete with PCs when they operate on a seperate level. I know many people who have both, each one for it's own strenghs.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
24 fps high density video ...?
That's a new one on me. I think you meant "high-definition (HD) video."
They have also a 23 inch TFT display at 1920x1200. Yummi ;)
I don't think they meant 24 fps either
As no self respecting slashdotter is going to put up with only 24 fps !
And no quotes about "24 fps" ought to be good enough for anyone, hmm sounds like a bill quote there.
We pay top dollar for our graphics card and we want at least 100 fps for everything..
Yes even if we're playing Nethack, we want out FPS dammit.
Same old advertising hype. Is there a tomshardware equivalent for comparing movie-making software like Adobe Premiere, Alias WaveFront Maya, Cinema 4D, Videowave, Worldbuilder, etc. ?
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
"10MB of available disk space required for installation"
(from http://www.apple.com/cinematools/specs.html)
So $1K AMR for a 10Mb piece of software. They could at least put in a few DVD's of Job's famous "never been done before" speaches and
maybe one of his turtleneck shirts or something. And I thought Adobe was nuts for charging $1+ for photoshop and a per page fee for a usable version of Acrobat.
Sure the size of the program has nothing to do with it's value though when you spend a bucket of cash you feel ripped off when you are returned with just a sandwich bag of product.
"Survival of the fittest Max, and we've got the fucking gun!" - Pi
Hopefully this will solve some of the issues that have existed with Film Logic negative cut lists. I've been wondering for a long time what was going to come out of that purchase. Now, it will be very interesting to see what happens with Nothing Real. They are working on an OSX port of Shake. Maybe we'll see a $8000 price drop in that program? Look out After Effects. I think Final Cut is a fantastic program. One of the major differences between Avid and Final Cut Pro is scalability. If I buy Final Cut Pro and decide to go from DV to HD, I can add in a hardware card and some fast storage and presto - HD editing with Final Cut Pro. If you look at Avid (remember XPress DV 3 is also for OSX) I cannot upgrade from XPress DV to say, the full version of XPress without considerably more expense in from Avid. Personally, I'm more than happy to see more film oriented products coming out. I'm happy to have the option of FCP for film now rather than looking at and then running away from the price of a Film Composer setup. -K
Man, I could anally-violate you with a beer bottle.
God knows I've got about ten of 'em on my desk tongiht.
Heh
Why is it when I hit ^R that ZSH calls me a cocksucker?
Just as a quick note: Final Cut Pro doesn't (yet?) run on the iPod. :-)
Statements like that are what are wrong with us today.
When do you need to make cinema-quality video? I understand people wanting the cool technology, but at some point you have to be content. You have to accept that you can never have the newest/fastest/coolest/best thing for very long (unless you have a 7 figure disposable income).
People claim they can't live without Photoshop, and they actively obtain the newest version. But how many people stop to think "Gee, I've been using Photoshop for 8 years now, maybe I should save up and buy a copy."
I'm not a software purist, who has sent a check to every shareware developer whose program he has used more than twice. I won't say that I don't have any software I didn't pay for, (I use IE and Mozilla ;) but I have paid for software I considered worthwhile. That includes a legal copy of Photoshop.
The reality is that we end up spending money on the software we don't own and don't need. If you ever bought a bigger hard drive instead of deleting LightWave, 3D Studio Max, and Maya, you spent money on that software. If you really use the software regularly, for more than playing around, it's probably worth investing money in. If you use it for an occupation, you have probably considered the legal implications.
I won't waste my time telling people not to steal software. Just consider the makers. If nobody bought Photoshop, Adobe would give up on it. If you and 9 friends all use Photoshop frequently, get together and buy it. Is it what Adobe wants? No. Is it better for Adobe than getting a copy on KaZaA? Yes.
Just my opinion.
--
Freedom of information doesn't mean information should be free. Just because you can read the book doesn't mean you shouldn't pay for it.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Yes, but will this let me produce a film of a 3-d rubber band wrapped around a 4-d sphere shrinking to a point???
For one this allows film users to use Final Cut without jumping through hoops. Go ahead and use 16mm or 35 mm. Cinematools is more of a tracking database that captures the relationship between the original film and the final edited movie. Much like a "codebook" for those familiar with that. This makes the whole telecining nightmare quite manageable.
Also this allows you to mix 29.97 fps NTSC with 24fps film capture! This is an enabling product for Apple and will open many doors in the movie industry.
I am too lazy to spend time searching the net. So does anyone know of any decent open source video editing software. Nothing fancy, just enough to make some videos of my kids for the grandparents.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
So Apple think they can compete with 65k$ systems ?
sorry but that is positivly laughable, like the film industry even care about price
Quality costs period, sure a Skoda does the same job as a Mercedes but the Mercedes is still 10 times the price and there is no shortage of buyers, why is that ?
because quality products cost proper money
10k is chump change in the Film business
Be careful what you ask for. In the mid 90's I asked "where can i find a shareware or free c compiler?" on the news groups. Someone suggested Linux that icame with one. Well I sstill haven't learne dhow to program but I sure learned alot about linux ;-)
http://Lenny.com
What kind of bozo are you? When do you need film quality editing? When you are a professional looking for film quality editing, that' s when.
Geez...
Looks like Apple is expanding their grasp on the film editing industry
I don't know if the software portion of Apple exactly has a "grasp" on film editing -- the hardware seems to get paired up with custom software from companies like Avid and Media 100.
Don't get me wrong, Final Cut Pro is a hell of a program, but it seems more of a median between iMovie and a serious editing package.
(I don't work in the field, but I work at a college with a pretty well-funded video editing program. So I could be mistaken; this is just my impression.)
--saint
I didn't intend to indicate the software was useless. However, the average user (i.e. "home movie spectaculars") doesn't need it. If you are a professional who needs the film-quality editing, then this is a great thing.
And you can pay for it.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
That Avid could enable the "real" 24p editing mode on DV Xpress simply by updating everyone's dongles - it's just disabled through software because it's one of the "high-end" bread and butter type options that Avid reserves for their more expensive systems.
Final cut doing this will probably force Avid to enable it as well - and I'm all in favour of all editing software becoming more powerful at a better price. Better for everyone!
DVX "powerpack" already includes software for tracking film key numbers for film matchback editing, so it's easy enough to go that way too, although it's not a "true" 24 frame edit.
Kino for DV editing :
:
http://www.schirmacher.de/arne/kino/
Then there was Broadcast2000 (which mig still be availble via sourceforge). Check with Linux Media Arts :
http://www.linuxmediaarts.com
I Think they maintain Broadcast2000 now...
and for the non-OSS stuff check out
http://www.mainconcept.com
MLT - simple and robust open source multimedia framework for Linux
Maybe, just maybe, Apple should considere going the Avid business and realease a quad G4 board that fits in a Dual Athlon 2GHz/Xeon 2.4GHz?
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
I don't believe that paying for software is a moral act. I paid money for the hardware -- the software ought to be free. After all, software is nothing more than data. I wouldn't pay for data that I can download for free.
On http://www.apple.com/cinematools/ just above the Apple logo on the display, note a teeny tiny little Dock icon for:
Quake III Arena.
FCP is right up there with the other big applications for professional work..... FCP3 has made a lot of leaps, and FCP will only look nicer with the recent buy ups that Apple is making, plus that new 23" high resolution screen. i have a feeling they might acquire a few more companies before they slow down. i read somewhere last fall when most all computer makers were having bad financial times about Apples free cash. seems theuir pile of cash just sitting in the bank was many times that of IBM or any other computer maker. since everyone was hurting fromt he bad economic times (coupled with 9-11 fallout) it was a perfect time for Apple to pick up some technology. that was when the rumors were flying about Apple buying up SGI too.... I'm sure a lot of people will never ditch Avid, but FCP is making a lot of progress and for *most* users is totally valid for the project they are doing. with the recent push for it i can only see it getting better anyway, and competition just makes better products for the consumer in the end (till MS gets in the game).
anyway, the choice of editing applications, in many cases, is personal taste.... not unlike the ongoing war over Adobe or Quark for a layout application. though in that case i think Quark is dropping the ball on the Apple front by stalling their OS X ready version. Adobe has theirs, and it seems a lot of Quark Express diehards are taking it for a spin for that reason alone.
Intel hardware is typically priced 50% or 100% over comparable (and often superior) AMD hardware. The "emperor has no clothes" in this, as Intel has managed to bamboozle a large number of computer users over the years by making them believe that a microcomputer's clock speed is more important than a microcomputer's performance. A pretty poor business model, and one day it will collapse rather quickly.
I've used Final Cut Pro and the Film Logic plug-in to edit my 35mm feature "The Rules of Attraction" to great success. We actually used FCP 2.02 for stability reasons, since 3.0 was in beta form last year when we began. From the looks of Cinema Tools, I'd say it's just Film Logic repackaged -- perhaps with a spiffy new interface.
Yes, which is why I have used and preferred AMD-based PC's for years. As do many... so much for the validity of the term "Wintel" sometimes used for PC's.
But, hey, Intel happens to have Blue Man Group doing commercials, so they are better, right?
I could build an overclocked Athlon XP box for $600 and use free software to do the same job
So, you end up paying less than 1/4 as much and you get a much more useful system besides.
Yeah! And why do these damn programmers get paid so much anyway? It's just typing, for chrissakes!
Uh, I have to think you're out of your mind. If you're doing a 24fps film project you're going to need to be 100% you have a system that can track and play frames accurately. Editing film on a computer for eventual conforming back on film is a complicated process that involves 3:2 pulldown, maintaining audio sync, tracking keycode #s, duplicate frame usage, legal optical effects, etc. If any of these things are off, even by a little bit, you can be totally screwed as you will be physically slicing your film's negative to match what's edited on the computer. One mess-up means you're fucked.
I'd like to know what free software does that. I've looked, believe me. The closest I can find is Broadcast 2000, but it's still nowhere close for a film project.
If you're interestested in some of the issues involved w/picture & sound editing, see this site and especially this article
Why isn't making videos of your kids for your grandparents worth a $800 used refurbed iMac running iMovie?
GPL Deconstructed
Because I need that $800 to pay for daycare.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
Suppose you are a student, or in education; you can get FCP 3 for a mere $300 and the Cinema tools for the same. That's $600 for a LOT of power. It is absolutely marvelous that apple values students enough to offer so much for so little, not even Micro$oft has such discounts as Apple when it comes to giving the ability to learn important software ($1,400 wow!). This is further demonstrated by their student developer plan. I'm glad someone thinks we're important.
10 mb is probably just the minimum install. I'll bet doing a complete install gives you hundreds of mb of options. I'd also be willing to bet they include some cool extra movies and stuff.
c-hack.com |
Mr THX is *already* using it.... jackass
First factor is the editor. Bar none, the job will go to top-notch talent. We fly out to LA just to get the best color correction people, even for a 3 hour transfer.
Second, and closely linked is the gear: good talent won't stay that far behind the technology curve. And for good reason: who will stay at the console waiting for your consumer-grade machines to render an effect 20 times slower than the pro job? No one, not even the clients.
Amazingly, third actually is the cost, just ahead of who owes who a blowjob in the industry.
Now back to gear, let's look seriously at what your 'G4 with FCP' will look like. You'll still need a terabyte or so of diskspace for video storage, so buy a NetApp or build your own disk array. You'll need some serious digitize cards to pull in video in realtime. You'll need production grade monitors to get good color, otherwise you'll spend days in transfer doing what you could have done in off-line. You'll need edit decks, most enjoy DigiBetas, but in your 'low-cost' example, 3/4"'s could suffice - you'll just be contracting to dub houses later. You'll want some effects boards to test concepts in semi-realtime; I suppose you could build a beowulf cluster to do that, and then write your own software....
Each of these adds up in time spent there, or time spent in finish, which, I might add, costs 10 times off-line in hourly costs. So when you say:
I point out that quality matters all the way through the process, or you'll pay for it all in the final edit. And the resulting cost will keep your clients from coming back. You don't know what you're talking about: edit shops like you describe open all the time, and they invariably go out of business.It will come when Paramount sues them for ripping off Star Trek's Bolians.
Great idea those guys had: "Let's do Star Trek Bolians as a sort of musical Mumenchantz"
...some of us really do need this stuff, in the same way some people needed Quark back in the 80s. So unitl you've won a couple of awards at Sundance and Cannes, and have mortaged your house to pay for time on an Avid, SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Anonymous Coward's got a point. All programmers ever do is steal code from each other, call it open source, and look at porn all day long.
.smell my feet.
Okay, fair enough.
GPL Deconstructed
You would not have bought the hardware hadn't there been software you wanted to run on it. Most people don't buy computers for the sake of having computers, they buy them to get a job done.
VirtualDub. Where have you been living? The "real world"? Yeesh.
[insert witty comment here]
Macromedia dumped the product when the development team missed too many deadlines, so Apple picked it up, presumably for a song.
Macromedia seems like a pretty stupid company now, no?
I hope the development folks are well-compensated; they've earned it.
D