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Book Review: Voodoo Science
The short review of Voodoo Science is that this is not a book that would make a good birthday gift for Alex Chiu or for that matter Deepak Chopra.
Voodoo Science is a happy little bon-bon of a book for the scientifically inclined. Robert Park is the head of the Washington office of the American Physical Society, and has worked inside the beltway helping the U.S. government and others understand the basics of science so they can make appropriate policy decisions. It is depressingly clear how badly they need it.
While there is a certain level of joy to be found in reading about Mr. Park's exploits debunking cranks and frauds, there is a sad realization that prominent legislators have no clue as to the physical laws that are the underpinnings of science. No, I wasn't surprised, but it was depressing nonetheless to see Trent Lott's name on a resolution designed to push through a patent on a "free energy" device, or Tom Harkin using his power to force the NIH to embrace alternative medicine as anything other than a placebo.
While fun, this isn't a perfect book. It is organized a little strangely, with subheadings throwing off the flow of reading, and at a little over 200 pages it seems too short.Park's mission with this book was not to dissect the great scientific frauds of all time, but I thought he could have spent more time on the issues he did bring up and less on trying to understand the Alex Chius of the world. Mr. Park is probably just trying to be polite, but in my reading of Voodoo Science he comes off as being too soft on the very targets of the book.
The case of cold fusion is a perfect example. His recounting of the famous events was right on, but it just fell flat when it came to to point the finger at Pons, Fleischman and the University of Utah for their complicity in fraud before the Utah state legislature. It is akin to writing a book about Enron and saying about Ken Lay: "It is likely he knew what he was doing was possibly improper."
I'd recommend Voodoo Science as a good gift to a younger reader, as it describes foundations of science in an accessible way. As you've probably gathered, an appropriate name for this book might be "The Laws of Thermodynamics and those that thought it didn't apply to them." As such, the book serves as a decent introduction to critical thinking about the physical world around us.
You can purchase Voodoo Science from bn.com. Want to see your own review here? Just read the book review guidelines, then use Slashdot's handy submission form.
You mean those were spoofs? Holy baby Jesus!
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
That he wasn't smart enough to discover the amazing Immortality ring! I didn't want to pay for one, but I was lucky enough to find one while graverobbing.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
Holy moley. I've had more gained more in depth knowledge about their books from 2 minute conversations with strangers on the bus.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Don't you mean FDA instead of FAA? I thought FAA was Federal Aviation Admission
The difference is they became mainstream because their effectiveness was more than just anecdotal.
"Geeks" know better than to be suckered by alternative (see snake oil) morons like you. Go strap on your electric ab-builder, take your placebo homeopathic pills, slip on your magnetic wristbands and copper bracelets and get a clue about how SCIENCE works. "The FAA and the AMA are the Microsofts trying to keep proven-better-but-less-expensive treatments down."Shut the fuck up.
What is the idea of homeopathic medicine?
My personal experience in the IT world for the past eight years is that general scientific literacy among Americans is on the decline. Ignorance of basic scientific principles, methods and tools from co-workers and customers amazes me on a daily basis. Ex. The metric system. The ability to perform simple conversions such as inches to cm and pounds to kg. Ex. The ability to perform math operations more complex than arithmetic. Ex. The ability to interpret statistical data in a meaningful manner.
Given the sorry state of affairs, it is not surprising that people beleive in perpetual motion machines and other devices that violate the laws of thermodynamics.
Park has a weekly 'What's new' email, where he briefly describes the weeks events, you can read it on the web, or subscribe for the email list.
My own review is here. To me, the most interesting thing about the book was the way it documented how pseudoscience has invaded otherwise respectable organizations like NASA.
Find free books.
Alternative medicine is *not* the Open Source
Software of the medical world - it's the Pets.com
of the medical world.
Park's book should be read together with another one: Trust Us, We're Experts! (Amazon) by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton. While there is a lot of "junk science" out there, there is at least as much corporate sponsorship behind efforts to discredit real scientific work as such. See also this story about PR efforts to discredit global warming, and my related K5 comment.
Those selling it actually believe that it works, making it much more dangerous.
granted, there is the possibility that some of these methods work, but after removing the placebo effect, many (if not most) do not stand up to rigorous empirical tests. The problem lies in the fact that most people do not even come close to understanding scientific method... people often fear and mistrust what they don't understand. (albeit selectively; it doesn't stop that many from climbing into a plane or getting behind the wheel of car... maybe it should).
I can't believe it's not lard!
That's fine, but theories are our BEST GUESSES of how the universe works. If there really is a better law, please publish it, and let others be the judge.
I can understand the American Medical Association (AMA) part, but what does the Federeral Aviation Administration (FAA) have to do with this?
EFGearman
Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
The problem is that in most cases, 'alternative' means 'unproven' (or 'unproveable'). Any 'alternative' treatment that proves effective when studied in a controlled manner would likely be embraced by the medical system and cease to become 'alternative'.
On the other hand there are some 'mainstream' therapies like acupuncture and some parts of chiropractic that don't stand up to scientific scrutiny but are widely considered valid.
There's also the question of intent on the part of the practitioner. Whether or not a therapy is effective is a matter of fact that can be tested experimentally. Whether or not it's fraud is a matter of if the practitioner believes that it's beneficial.
A while back I did a litter searching to find out a little more about the authors of the Mars and Venus books. Here's a grain of salt to take with them.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Dr Mel Thusian
Ann Arbor University
Director of Particle Acceleration
Just a question:
I went to the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and I've never heard of Ann Arbor University. Google hasn't either. Maybe you meant you meant that you teach at UMich but you're not listed in the university directory. I'm just trying to understand who's speaking here before I decide on your credibility.
ich muß mehr Kuhglocke haben
If you really understand gravity, then you're probably the first (yeah, I'm sure some first year physics students can expound about gravity, incorrectly believing that they understand what gravity is and how it works, but the reality is that gravity is mostly an unknown with some guesstimates and postulations [what is the "Speed of Gravity"?] : An invisible, almost magical attraction between objects). As such, the idea that gravity is a wave or a force and therefore can be blocked, or shielded, isn't that absurd. I'm not a physics buff by any measure of the imagination, but it is one of those fascinating fields that can make one curious. IEEE's Spectrum magazine had a fascinating story about how little has actually been proven in the field of quantum mechanics, and it really is stunning.
Stephen Jay Gould, almost everything he's ever written but particularly The Mismeasure of Man.
Then there's the classic, much older but still frequently cited Charles Mackay's _Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds_ online.
(entire text available courtesy of Gutenberg)
part 1
part 2
part 3
"Lisa, in this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
...and a complete scam. It was about an alleged anti-gravity disc, made from a 12" superconducting ring that looked not unlike a brake pad.
This is far from being consigned to the scam basket (although it may end up there). The easiest way to demonstrate this is to note that NASA has invested in research to try to replicate Podkletnov's results.
The interesting thing about gravity is that it isn't well understood by modern physics. We know how it behaves (we think) but we don't know what causes it really. This makes it equally ripe for psuedo-science as for breakthrough science. In any case, an April Fool's day scam it isn't.
There are a bunch of other links here and a good overview here.
Karma police, I've given all I can, it's not enough, I've given all I can, but we're still on the payroll.
You might be overstating the case somewhat. Sure, many (if not most) "alternative" medicines work. Sure, there's a case to be made that conventional doctors might perhaps have an interest in blocking general use of some of these treatments. But I don't think we can really classify "alternative" medicine in general as better. I'm certain that some of them are, but we can't completely throw out surgeons in favor of St.-John's-wart just yet.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
For instance, they entirely reject the idea of homeopathic medicine. What they neglect to mention is the hundreds of studies proving the effectiveness of this treatment for everything from hangnails to brain tumors.
Because hundreds of kooks claiming shit in unscientific ways isn't the same as Scientific studies using rigorous methods to discover the nature of reality?
You can claim studies with proof as all you want, but until you really and truly embrace the Scientific method, and show results that a reproducible in double-blind studies that aren't equivalent to placebo control groups, you're going to continue to be laughed at. You remind me of the Christian Scientists who continue to claim to have scientific proof showing the flood and the Genesis creation story.
I encourage everyone to bookmark James Randi's web site as a great source of information for the scientifically mind skeptic.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
To swindle the termianlly gullible by giving them 'medicines' which are just water that once had an eye-dropper of something waved at it.
Homeopathy is bollocks of the highest order.
"Information wants to be paid"
Why is this even an argument? If someone says "therapy X does not work", why is "there is a lot of good stuff out there" a counter-argument?
See what Nobel Laureate and professor of Physics Brian D. Josephson has to say of Robert Park.
In Washinton Post, Charles Platt comments like so.
For a good commentary on Park vs Cold Fusion, go to the source.
"When I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought advice from my venerable teacher Philipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a highly developed, almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which, for example, geometry has had already for centuries."
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
I meant terminally gullible. Oops. Finger trouble. I'm not well..
If you take homeopathic medicine instead of real medicine, terminally could be the correct term here.
"Information wants to be paid"
What is the idea of homeopathic medicine?
You take some substance, usually related to the disease by random intuitive way, add it to water, and then dilute it with water. They dilute with water so heavily, that modern physics says there should not be even an atom of the non-water ingrediant left.
There are two reason why this is mocked. First is the whole dilution thing; what you've giving people is water. Second is the fact that from we've seen of the rest of medicine, there's reason more than a very tiny percentage of intuitively picked ingrediants should work; even if the fundamental theory works, it should take many, many tries to find the right ingrediants.
all depends on WHAT alternative medicine:
-herbal stuff? well it could work. lots of conventional medicine comes out of nature (willowbark and aspirine, to name one)
-magnetized water? questionable...
just saying 'alternative' isn't enough.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
To say that alternative medicine is placebo flies in the face of every single person who believes in an afterlife and a soul.
:-)
Erm, no. That statement is so ludicrous as to be stunning. There is absolutely no connection between on'e belief in afterlife and a soul and one's belief in the claims of alternative medicine. I repeat: no connection.
Of course, if you see a connection, please provide it, because my current level of mystification is really tiring.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
You can't say a perpetual motion machine is impossible, just that it is inconsistent with current theories about how the universe works.
I.e. as impossible as me jumping out of the window and flying, or the moon being flat. If you're going to overturn theories with as much evidence as the Laws of Thermodynamics, you need solid proof. All we want to see is the machine in actual operation, with proof that it will actually run forever.
Actually, I think its a brilliant troll. Demonstrating exactly what the book/review was talking about. The name tipped me off.
I take EXTREME issue with the idea that there hae been HUNDREDS of "studies"..where studies means an FDA approved double blind clinical test.
For the rest you you out there who think hemeopathic medicine is for real(let's not get into whether or not its safe)..please check this article
out
Why don't the homeopathic remedy manufacturers go thuugh a series of FDA clinical studies to be come FDA certified drugs? If this stuff actually works...why are the remedy manufactures using a loop hole in FDA statues and marketing this stuff as herbal suppliments and not as effictive drugs. I'll tell you why...these remedies would not be found to be proven effective for most of the things word of mouth advertising claims. Oh yeah I'm sure hidden in many of the remedies being pushed at the super crunky health food store down the road from me will contain something that helps prevent or cure one or two specific illnesses. But we can't be sure until they actually conduct FDA trials and get FDA certification. And quite frankly taking this stuff can be DANGEROUS...especially if you are on ANY type of real drugs. homeopathic remedies don't have to do any sort of drug interaction testing. Is this stuff safe for a healthy person to take...probably...there is a long track record of other ignorant people taking this stuff without dying. But is it safe if you are also taking ANY modern scientificly researched medications? No way. Don't mix medications with out talking to the docters who gave you the idea to take the medications..even herbals can interfere with how modern FDA approved prescription or over the counter drugs work
This is WHY we have the FDA...if something is an effective drug for a certain illness...the FDA is there to test and certify that. If you are taking any medicine (no matter how ancient it is) sold by a company and placed on retail shelves...you should DEMAND that that they get FDA approval certifying that what they are selling you really works for what you think it does. There is a reason the homeopathic remedies in the store don't actually make specific claims to help any specific illness.
I can understand desperate people taking experimental drugs for live threatening illnesses. But to sell this stuff over the counter without making any specific claims on the label...and letting word of mouth spin a tale of fanasticly wonderful benifits is a slap in the face to the benifits this past century as seen thanks to the explosion of the understanding of how medicines work and the great strides modern medical science have taken to improve the quality of life for those who hae access to it.
Please go back to living in your flat world, with the sun circling overhead, and take your ancient medicines with you.
-jef
According to item #15 of The Crackpot Index, I score your post as +5 (-5 point starting credit + 10 points for arguing that a current well-established theory is "only a theory", as if this were somehow a point against it). Or were you trying to be funny?
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
What is the idea of homeopathic medicine?
:)
"idea" gives it a bit too much credit.
James Randi had a good explanation of the idea behind homeopathy.
The short answer is: It's all cultish pseudo-scientific bullshit, and the Scientific community is still waiting for homeopathy's promoters to actually do some real Science to try to prove its validity. My guess is that we're as likely to see some real evidence from these guys as we are to have John Edward go for (and win) the JREF million dollar challenge.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
3. I forgot the third premise
... Profit!
Step 3:
"The good reader is a rarer swan than the good writer."
I absolutely cannot believe the level of level 2+ comments from supposedly intelligent people here who think there's something to homeopathic and alternative therapies. Most of them obviously haven't read Park's book, nor would they probably care to.
As for homeopathy, this is a practice that relies on diluting chemicals or extracts in water until there's no possibility of that chemical being in the liquid administered, relying on the "water memory" of the chemical for efficacy. Despite never having been shown to be efficacious in double-blinded clinical trials, it's ridiculous from the view of chemistry, physics, and what we know of the universe, due to a little problem called Avogadro's number (about 6.3x10^23, the number of molecules in one mole of a substance). Each of these serial dilutions of extracts causes the concentration to descend so far below avogadro's number that there is no chemical in what is administered. Park demonstrates in the book, using simple high school chemistry (which obviously many here are having difficulty remembering) that homeopathy, as practiced by the homeopathic industry, is simply the drinking of water.
It all has to do with a little something known as proof of efficacy, the most important part of any clinical trial. As one doctor said regarding the recent governmental report on "alternative" medicines (to paraphrase), "There are only two kinds of medicine -- that which works and that which doesn't. If something that's considered to be alternative is shown to work then it's adopted. If not, it is not."
People, there is medicine and there is quackery. The double-blind clinical trial is the only way of distinguishing between the two, and even then conditions have to be constructed carefully to insure accurate results. Thank God the FDA doesn't rely on the anecdotal evidence of family members, the testimonials of paid spokespeople, or the promises of the herbal supplement industry.
The FDA was created to help people see through all this snake oil & empty promises, but now, through exemptions for "herbal supplements" pushed through congress, led by Sen. Orrin Hatch, we have a renaissance of this sort of lies and deception of the populace. Unlike homeopathic remedies, herbal supplements many times do have powerful agents in them. Only because of their designation as a food and not a drug, they get around FDA requirements for purity, consistency, and efficacy. Because of widely varying concentrations of agents including ephedrine and hormones, and a level of quality that runs the gamut due to a complete lack of quality control, we have a multibillion-dollar industry whose products have been reported to cause strokes, heart disease and liver damage. In one report in the LA Times last month it was reported that the makers of an herbal supplement in Utah were adding crystal meth to their weight loss product, causing a spate of strokes & heart conditions in middle-aged people before being caught & shut down.
It's a tragedy, and it's a needless danger created because the average person has little more than an elementary school level of understanding of science. And I can't believe that so many of you are gullible enough to be taken in by these hucksters. Please, read and study before putting drugs in your body that aren't approved by the FDA.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
I'd like to see a scientific, double-blind studio showing the efectivity of homeopatic treatment on a specific disease on animals. Control groups, the whole scientific thing. I'm sure you've seen one, since you are so clear it works, so I'd really appreciate a link, a book title, a researcher's name, anything.
Or the same thing with humans. Really. It would do wonders for homeopaty's credibility.
(1) He considers himself a genius.
(2) He regards his colleagues, without exception, as ignorant blockheads....
(3) He believes himself unjustly persecuted and discriminated against. The recognized societies refuse to let him lecture. The journals reject his papers and either ignore his books or assign them to "enemies" for review. It is all part of a dastardly plot. It never occurs to the crank that this opposition may be due to error in his work....
(4) He has strong compulsions to focus his attacks on the greatest scientists and the best-established theories. When Newton was the outstanding name in physics, eccentric works in that science were violently anti-Newton. Today, with Einstein the father-symbol of authority, a crank theory of physics is likely to attack Einstein....
(5) He often has a tendency to write in a complex jargon, in many cases making use of terms and phrases he himself has coined.
If homeopathic medicine doesnt work, and its just the placebo effect, then how come vets use it successfully to treat animals?
Because many diseases go away on their own? If you want sceptics to find it interesting, then put it through a scienetific, double-blind test. There are too many cases where something looked good and bombed the double-blind test. If we should throughly test a new medical technology that makes sense, then we should demand at least as much testing on a new medical technology that breaks the laws of physics.
To a first approximation, mainstream medecine has been peer reviewed, and alternative medecine hasn't. The only way for alternative medecine to become mainstream is to be peer reviewed, at which point it either fails and remains alternative, or it passes and becomes mainstream.
Isn't it funny how all the alternative medecine backers want it accepted without being peer reviewed? Quite interesting...
Infuriate left and right
I would think that the opposite is true. The popular opinion bandwagon believes in anything that the tabloids publish. How do you think that James Van Praagh and John Edward earn their livelihood? Why do you think that discrediting and debunking meets with such hostility? The list of frauds and fakery and charlatanry which has been clearly and concisely demolished is quite long, yet popular opinion isn't fazed. This is because the mundane doesn't sell advertising. Uri Geller, Nostradamus, the Bermuda Triangle, the aforementioned psychics, all indisputable crap, but it still sells, so it is still spoon-fed to the general public.
The general public, especially in America, is so anti-intellectual and eager to be deceived that anyone with even minimal intelligence is accused of being narrow-minded, as if being wide-minded (no filters, just accept all shit as equally probable and valid because it MIGHT be true) were a virtue.
Skepticism is healthy. Logic and reason aren't dirty words. Yes, many skeptics come across as their own worst enemy (James Randi). They seem arrogant at the very least. However, maybe this is because the tedium of debunking the same shit is exhausting after you have done it for a lifetime and no one notices except for your self-congratulatory peers and their gullible opposites, the "they laughed at Galileo" crowd.
Anyway, that's the end of my rant, now I'm going to go watch something on PBS.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
Not everyone in medical research is out on a vendetta to disprove Alternative Medicine.
Ah, but then there's Hahnemann's other brilliant idea--the medicine "remembers" that the stuff was there! (And the more dilute the solution is, the more powerful it is--hence the homeopathic joke, "Did you hear about the guy who OD'd on homeopathic medicine? Yeah, he forgot to take it.") So, according to homeopathic practitioners, the fact that you're taking water, or a sugar pill, or whatever, doesn't matter, because at one time it contained something that would make your symptoms worse and hence will, they say, cure you.
Now, consider tap water. At one time or another it's had just about every possible substance in it that homeopaths have ever used--so if homeopathy is true, shouldn't drinking tap water keep you in perfect health?
The perverse part is that homeopathic medicine is perfectly suited for today's litigious society; because there's nothing in it but water or pill substrate, it can have no side effects, and hence will never give rise to a lawsuit...never mind that it's totally worthless.
>American Medical Association (AMA)
I think he meant the American Motorcycle Association (AMA)
My favorite reference for "Cold Fusion" in particular and bad science in general is
It certainly has all the detail one could ever want on the topic, and provides some nice insight into how these things go.Sure, it's possible that someone might overturn the "laws" of thermodynamics tomorrow, just as effects that are described by Einstein's Theory of Relativity contradict Newton's mechanics and their notions of absolute time and space...but they've worked well enough that any alleged evidence to the contrary will be gone over with a fine-toothed comb.
There's an even bigger "but" here: even though people agree that Newton got it wrong to that extent, he didn't get it much wrong. It's only in what are to us extreme conditions that the difference is detectable, and engineers use good old Newtonian mechanics to design car motors and the like without worry--the pistons aren't ever going to move at a significant fraction of the speed of light, OK? :) So...even if the laws of thermodynamics differ from the way reality works, chances are for everyday things they'll continue to work as well as they have since the days of Carnot et al.
That was an interesting read, I appreciate it :)
:)
I was cured of a pretty hard (potentially lethal) case of allergies by homeopathy, so I'm not exactly sceptic. On the other hand, the chemical counterargument about quantity is pretty solid. That's why I'd like more scientific studies on homeopathy.
Incidentally, it appears to be gaining ground, at least from the article you kindly provided: "New survey of primary care physicians who are members of the AMA revealed that an astonishing 49% of them expressed interest in training in homeopathy (British Homeopathic Journal, July, 1997). This survey was conducted by researchers at the University of Maryland. These same researchers also surveyed Maryland family practice doctors and discovered that 69% expressed inter est in homeopathic training (Journal of the American Board of Family Practice, 1995, 8, 361-6). Both of these studies show an impressively high degree of interest in homeopathy".
Food for tought
I think he was trying to make the point, that however unlikely it is for the laws of thermodynamics to turn out to have a few more special cases, it is possible.
Therefore, before simply dismissing yet another claim of a perpetual motion machine based on the laws of thermodynamics, it is worth while to look over the scientific analysis of the device and then find the caveat the 'discoverer' missed.
Usually the caveat the discoverer missed is that if they want to be taken seriously, they need to do their research in a scientific manner, but occasionally, they'll forget that the power from the sun is powering their device (or something of that nature)
Need a Catering Connection
Some cars do use small round brake pads. While getting parts for my car, someone was inspecting some small round pads. I asked if they were for his motorcycle. He said "no, they are for my Honda" I wonder what size car uses 12 inch round brake pads. I wonder what size tires it uses to cover up the brake disk.
The truth shall set you free!
So the head of the "Mind-Matter Unification Project", a senior writer for "Wired", and an article from "Infinite Energy" magazine panned the book?
You don't say....
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
What is the connection?
He says in the book that there's is no valid scientific reason anymore to send people into space when sending robots has turned out to be a much more cost effective way to do scientific research in space, and that the people coming up with scientific motives to justify the huge cost of manned projects like the ISS are basically grasping at straws (e.g. "It will help us understand the effects of weightlessness on the human body").
He has a point. Much as I hate to say it, humans are ill-suited for space exploration and should stay here. We weigh too much, require too many accoutrements such as life support systems, and we generally aren't willing to consider one-way trips.
That's the problem - everything from homeopathy and "crystal healing", to herbs, low-fat diets and massage therapy, is classified as "alternative" when compared to industry-standard cut 'n' drug practices[0].
Some "alternative" therapies (herbs, massage, acupuncture[1]) have plausable physiological mechanisms. Of course, not all therapies in these categories have the effects that are sometimes claimed for them; but the idea that eating a plant, getting rubbed, or being pricked with needles can have definite effects on the flesh should not be surprising to anyone.
Others (such as many ch'i/ki/energy therapies that involve interaction between the pracitioner and the patient) have a more psychosomatic[2] action - disease and healing have a larger psychological and sociological component than we often think. Unfortunately sometimes practioners of these therapies focus their explanations on mystical energies or somesuch, and skeptical investigators often focus on these deficient explanations rather than on the question of whether the patient obtains relief.
I practice reiki. I've found it effective, on myself and others, for minor physical and emotional disturbances. But I believe it works though mild bodywork, the physiological reaction to touch, and the powerful healing effect of ritual, and not by mystical energy flowing into my crown chakra - but still, the best way to obtain the necessary state of mind is to think about mystical energy flowing into my crown chakra. It's sort of like what ESR talks about in "Dancing with the Gods". As he puts it,
Another category of "alternative" therapies would be those that are completely self-activated placebos. Homoepathy would seem to fit here. (However, be aware that many remedies marketed as homoepathic do contain enough active material to have an effect, and should really be classified as herbal.) Some may be presented by believers, some ("psychic surgery") may be presented by con men.
Finally there are some that not only don't work, but are actively unhealthy.
It's a pretty broad range of practices to be lumped under one label.
([0]Which certainly have their place. If my body gets majorly damaged, please take me to the local trauma center and drug and cut me as appropriate. However, when all you have is a scalpel, everyone looks like a surgical candidate...)
([1] Speaking strictly of endorphin release and nerve stimulation, not meridians of ch'i, which would fall into the next category.)
([2] Which means "mind-body", not "it's all in the mind".)
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Therefore, before simply dismissing yet another claim of a perpetual motion machine based on the laws of thermodynamics, it is worth while to look over the scientific analysis of the device and then find the caveat the 'discoverer' missed.
Even if it's possible it works, that doesn't mean it's worth the physicist's time to check it out. There has been thousands of "perpetual motion machines", and even one working would mean almost everything we know in physics, stuff that has been shown over and over again, was wrong. If you want to spend your days trying to teach basic physics to people who don't want to learn and who will complain you're oppressing them, go ahead; but some people feel they have more productive things to do.
The definition of alternative medicine. = "A variety of therapeutic or preventive health care practices, such as homeopathy, naturopathy, chiropractic, and herbal medicine, that do not follow generally accepted medical methods and may not have a scientific explanation for their effectiveness."
Let's not forget the other definition: "the practice of medicine without the use of drugs; may involve self-awareness [syn: complementary medicine]"
Notice the part about "variety of therapeutic or preventive health care practices" kind of lump-sums all spiritual and well-being folks in with that. Everyone who believes in miracles and prayer-healing falls under that umbrella. Nearly everyone who believes that we have a soul also believes that the soul can be sick just like the body can. In addition to all of that, don't forget that non-physical sicknesses such as depression and stress can be linked to physical ailments.
For example migranes, Parkinsion's Disease and even Immune System problems can occur.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
After some workers found themselves unable to reproduce the results initially claimed by Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann in 1989
...
Where all workers failed to reproduce an experiment that any lab should have been able to
He fails to mention here, as the video does, that the small amount of such products anticipated, given the amount of energy generated, was eventually observed, and in just the right quantity.
From what I've read, the amount of radiation that should have been emitted along with the claimed energy release should have easily detected - the physicists would have taken lethal doses of radiation.
Humans are ill-suited for all sorts of things that we do every day. Scuba diving, mountain climbing, crossing oceas, flying across continents, mining, handling hazardous materials, living in extreme climates. Because we felt doing these things were desirable or important to our long-term well-being, we devised means to accomplish them. Now they're second nature. Manned space exploration is really the same way. We've only really been at it for around 50 years; it's hardly time to give up already.
Besides, I've always believed that the only really vital goal of space exploration is to eventually set up permanent manned colonies. Robots can assist in gathering information and manage the prep work. But if you ever want to get all our eggs out of this one little basket then you'll have to send people out there sooner or later. We might as well get ready.
Furthermore, your reference to Avogadro's number is ignorant. We actually don't understand dilution very well, but we do know that the simplistic model you assume (one in which you simply divide the moles of active agent by moles of water) does not describe the results of multiple dilutions very well at all. In actual fact, molecules often "clump" together, with more or less unknown effects on their agency inside human beings.
The tragedy, and needless danger, is created by know-it-all types who dismiss anything they don't understand rather than acting like grown-up scientists and doing research.
Oh yeh, and
As one doctor said regarding the recent governmental report on "alternative" medicines (to paraphrase), "There are only two kinds of medicine -- that which works and that which doesn't. If something that's considered to be alternative is shown to work then it's adopted. If not, it is not."
If you believe this, why all that piss, wind and vinegar about homeopathy? In the treatment of allergies and osteoarthritis, homeopathic remedies have been widely adopted. Around 32% of French and 42% of English general practitioners regularly refer patients to homeopaths. Because, presumably, they care more about making people better than about looking good in front of the Science Police.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
And how come Robert Park doesn't mention the tokamak hot fusion fiasco? Could it be it's too close to home? Could it be it's competing for research funding?
Making fun of scientists on the cutting edge is nothing new, let's take just one example:
"A Severe Strain on the Credulity
As a method of sending a missile to the higher, and even to the highest parts of the earth's atmospheric envelope, Professor Goddard's rocket is a practicable and therefore promising device. It is when one considers the multiple-charge rocket as a traveler to the moon that one begins to doubt ... for after the rocket quits our air and really starts on its journey, its flight would be neither accelerated nor maintained by the explosion of the charges it then might have left.
Professor Goddard, with his "chair" in Clark College and countenancing of the Smithsonian Institution, does not know the relation of action to reaction, and of the need to have something better than a vacuum against which to react ... Of course he only seems to lack the knowledge ladled out daily in high schools."
There are of course countless more examples. Go read some history of science.
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
Er... if this guy's real name is Mel Thusian, it might be time for a little thinning of the ranks around here.
/Brian
can you name one (that works)?
I agree with most of your statement but I think the scientific community can continue with BOTH opinions rather than having to choose. Yes, we need to do research on alternative medicine. It's possible that there is really something to some of it. If any successes are due to the plecibo effect, that that is useful information also.
But these studies are going to take years. While we're waiting for the results, we need to be vocal about your opinion #1. People who are sick are quite desperate and lack the understanding of why these therapies are not mainstream/accepted. People always hope to find some kind of "mystery" cure to their problems. I think it's part of the American culture that's closely tied to conpiracy theories. We need to explain to people that when they take alternative medicine, they're taking a big risk. Most people I talk to usually try alternative medicine "because I don't have anything to lose!" Wrong-o! Just because something is billed as "natural" doesn't mean it's safe. If you eat a couple of toadstools, I guarantee you won't be feeling too hot!
I don't get upset at people who try alternative medicine anymore, or even those who encourage friends and strangers to try it. I'm upset at alternative medicine supporters for refusing to do high-quality scientific studies and I'm upset at the mainstream medical establishment for refusing to publically explain why these therapies are not accepted.
GMD
watch this
But then how will we show the world we pee the farthest?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
The point is that a basic understanding of "known" physics easily refutes most such "Alternative", "Eastern", "New Age", "Bullshit", or "Whatever You Want To Call It" medicine. We do know a few things about how cells and atoms and molecules and atoms react, and it is very easy to debunk things like "magnets diminish back pain" or "smoking pot cures cancer"
My point is that in some cases, you need to approach new claims and existing physics models with near-equal skepticism.
<p>
How is that? Something that has been tested continuously for hundreds of years and is readily and consistently observable by every person non-subjectively deserves (near) equal weight as every crackpot claim that is unverifiable and contradictory?
<p>
Granted, some "modern" scientific models are just as crackpot, but you can't condemn the whole history of science because of a few recent science fiction fans and tax wasters.
truism are most often used to hide the truth. Its much easier to explain history with slogans too, but that's called propaganda.
it anyone ever had anything close to a perpetual motion machine it would be praised, funded, and well-researched. However, no-one ever has, and yet a good many crackpot ideas with nothing more than words have been (praised/funded/researched) -- I think science has been *way* on the side of erring with caution. No genuinely relavant idea has been successfully supressed in "Western" science since Copernicus.
Can you think of one?
...due to a little problem called Avogadro's number (about 6.3x10^23, the number of molecules in one mole of a substance). Each of these serial dilutions of extracts causes the concentration to descend so far below avogadro's number that there is no chemical in what is administered.
What on earth does Avagadro's number have to do with anything, and why do you refer to it as a "little problem"? It's nothing more than the conversion factor between Atomic Mass Units (AMUs) and kilograms, and is used to define the "mole" (the number of 12-AMU carbon atoms needed to amass 12 Kg of carbon). It is most certainly NOT an efficacy threshold for drug concentration, as you implied above.
Uh, yeah. Y'know, mainstream medicine is a big part of that...
/brian
More to the point, if it's proven to work it's not alternative anymore, thus disposing of the digitalis argument.
/brian
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
According to Park at least, Technova (a subsidiary of Toyota) eventually gave up on cold fusion.
/Brian
The point should be made that there never was a "scientific" reason to send people into space, except to physically test the "theory" of gravity from orbit. By the time a "scientist" actually got to go in a spaceship, there was plenty of empirical testing (like hitting golf balls on the moon) -- not that it was needed.
There are lots of other reasons to go into space that NASA doesn't want any part of. One is entertainment, another is natural resources, another is exploration. Possible others include waste disposal, colonization, and Vogon poetry. The only real reason to go to space that the government supports is television.
why not?
You'd be happy to see a nuclear war, but what about when Jesus comes...then you'd want to be somewhere else I bet.
No, mainstream medicine isn't anything to do with the availability of clean water, etc. That's down to technology.
that since they're actually water, they can't hurt you!
This is a big advantage over untested herbal supplements which may or may not do anything, and may or may not interact with other drugs.
Conspiracy theory for the day: homeopathy is A Cunning Plan to keep the softheaded away from untested NON-placebo stuff.
My video compression blog
The point is that there is very little to learn from the naive. This sounds elite, but it really isn't.
You're assuming that there will eventually be a benefit. That's an unsafe assumption. All your other examples gave an benefit immediatly, either in objective benefits, eg obtaining valuable minerals, or the person who paid for the experience enjoying themselves. With the execption of two billionaires, neither is true with manned space. We've spent 40 years doing nothing useful that couldn't be done with non-manned space. There is no sign that this will change, in fact with increasing sophisticated robotics, it's less and less likely to be changing.
because it is the goal of every (successful) species to attempt to survive.
This is incorrect. You're confusing outcome with intention. It's the goal of every individual of a species to survive. The survival of the species itself is a consequence of that.
Thinking about evolution in terms of intentions is incorrect and leads to erroneous conclusions quite easily. (E.g. "if we're all just monkeys then what's to stop us from acting like monkeys?", "Shouldn't we then just kill all animals except dogs/sheep/cows", etc.) Drawing moral perogatives is exactly what you should not do with evolution. What happens and what should happen are two very different things.
He has a point. Much as I hate to say it, humans are ill-suited for space exploration and should stay here.
Anyone attempting to justify human spaceflight on economic or scientific grounds will run against the inevitable conclusion: robots can do it much better and much more cheaply than we can.
But that's basically irrelevant. Regardless of the economic arguments, as long as there is an opportunity to go, there will be people who want to do it. It is a significant part of human nature to explore the unknown and push the frontiers -- there's no economic or scientific reason to climb mountains, cross the Antarctic, or anything similar. Exploration of all kinds -- and space exploration in particular -- galvanize the entire human imagination in ways that very little else on Earth does. Why else would people be lining up to follow Dennis Tito's example in blowing a large fraction of their personal wealth -- not to mention putting their lives at significant risk -- just to see what Earth looks like from orbit?
Personally, I think that if launch costs could be reduced by a factor of 10, we would see nonprofit, private organizations conducting space exploration with corporate sponsorship, in the same way that other contemporary exploration activities occur today ...
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
The scientific dogma when the Wright brothers made their historic flight was that heavier than air flight is impossible. The news of their success was "exposed" as a fraud by some scientists for some time afterward.
So they flew the plane around, and made it clear that there actually was a flying machine. All we're asking from homeopathy is the same thing. There is a standard for drugs that shows that they work, yet in over 80 years of homeopathy, no one has shown that homeopathy passes it. Homeopathy is almost as older (older than?) the airplane; why is that airplane enthusists managed to convince everyone that the airplane was a great tool, and homeopathy hasn't?
What if your 'crank' actually happens to be correct?
--Every single one of your 5 points could easily hold true for an inventor with a valid new idea, up to and including the last point. (New concepts require new terms, for crying out loud!)
But, like every other zealous Skeptic out there, this little problem can be easily overlooked by simply riding the head of delusional self-congratulatory steam which comes with dogmatic self-hypnosis. --No different than the New Age nut: Only look at the 'Hits' and ignore the 'Misses'.
The article you posted is a prime example of the closed minded bullshit Skepticism is.
-Fantastic Lad
What is going on here? If you want to be a scientist, you must at least make an effort to find current papers on the subject you talk about.
If I speak as a scientist, yes. I feel no such obligation when BSing here at slashdot.
You seem to be totally unaware that the experiments have been replicated, that the predicted amounts of helium are produced etc.
Any experiment can be reproduced, given enough time and laxness in controls, and beating a dead horse long enough doesn't make it live. The paper by Solalmon on Pons and Fleischmann's cold fusion cells clearly shows that there was no evidence that the cells underwent cold fusion. If there never was any evidence of cold fusion, why will more research make it show up?
In 1993, the University of Utah licensed its patent rights to cold fusion to ENECO, which latter returned the rights. In 1998 the University of Utah Research Foundation gave up its search for patent rights. That's very unusual behavior for an invention that could be worth billions, if there was any hope. Japan spent $20 million dollars on it, and gave up. Again, if there was fusion going on, why didn't they see it and continue?
I'd love to see cold fusion work. But if there are results to be found, I'm very surprised that they haven't been found yet. They've wasted enough of people's time; we'll care when there's solid incontroverable results.
Five minutes worth of Googling will show you that Polonium Halos have a simple physical explanation besides the one that Creation Scientists would like to promote.
The fact that Gentry (the guy researching Polonium Halos) has lied about simple things like whether or not anyone in the Scientific community has even attempted to dispute his findings should give you a clue about his level of scholarship.
Sadly, this level of scholarship is typical to Creation Scientists.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
*degreed* (as in: went to school for *seven* years for it) doctor of "alternative medicine,"
Do you realize how long most theologians study the Christian Bilbe, think that it's flawless and 100% literally true, but still don't realize that because the Bible claims that the earth is flat and has four corners -- it's no longer 100% literally true?
Studying bullshit for a great length of time and still not realizing that it's bullshit just makes me pity your wife, not respect her opinion.
In both cases: that need obviated by the application of certain alternative treatments. Needless to say, the "traditional medicine" doctors were rather... taken aback. Both swore that what they saw happen was unheard of in their experience.
Yes, this is why "anecdotal evidence" is considered to be "bad science" when it comes to proving theories. I'm pretty sure that successful homeopathy would be an acceptable means to win the JREF million dollar challenge.
Sounds like you and your wife have a cool million on the way. Congratulations!
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
But if you ever want to get all our eggs out of this one little basket then you'll have to send people out there sooner or later.
Perhaps when it's cost effective and there's a compelling reason to do so. In the interim I say we stick with the robots and keep improving on those.
I realize that many people want to go into space. I also realize that I don't want to subsidize their space operas with my tax dollars. Right now the cost of sending people to Mars is horrendous, and the payoff almost solely in PR. Certainly not worth all the robots we *might* have sent in place of the people.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
I'm not talking about it being hot for 2 days. I'm talking about every year for the past 10 years having a 'Flood of the century' or 'Storm of the century' or 'worst drought ever'.
.tv extension? The expect their country to be submerged by rising ocean levels within 20 years, and have already noticed the effect. Offer a simple explanation other than the ice caps melting.
If you live on the east coast, and haven't noticed our weather is fucked, then you haven't been outside. Out weather is getting more erratic, and more extreme. Maybe in the long term scheme of things, it's possible that for the entire past 200 years of written records kept on the weather - that happened to be the most temperate 200 year period since the ice age. Occam's razor says that the simpler explanation, that our weather is changing, is more likely.
Did I say anything about corporations? An increase in solar radiation would fuck us as surely as a pollution driven greenhouse effect - AND would be fought with the same tactic - decreasing greenhouse gases.
In case you haven't noticed polar ice caps are melting - notice that giant sheet of ice that peeled off into the ocean recently? Think that was because it was too cold? Ever heard of Tuvalu, the country that owns the
I also don't give a rat's ass that the world is doomed, I hate the winter and if I can run around outside all year long fine. BUT that doesn't mean that I don't notice what's going on, just that I think we're long long past the point where we can stop the process.
I hear my fellow /.-ers happily denouncing alternative medicine practices because they lack FDA-sanctioned double-blind studies to support them. What is being overlooked is that the scientific method need be applied in the same way to denounce a principle as it would be to assert it.
No, what you here is skeptics asking for proof which alternative medicine whackos consistently fail to provide. If the 'alternative' was effective and reproducible it would move from the 'alternative' side of medicine to the 'mainstream' side.
Note the general lack of such movement.
And please note: the empirical method never requires anyone to disprove a point, but rather to prove it (within statistical reason). There are awfully good reasons for this, and if you sit down and think about it you'll see why this is the case. Failing that, you could always take physics 101 and have someone else explain it to you.
As is, we don't see a great number of 'alternative medicine' proponents jumping up and down, chomping at the bit to prove the efficacy of their pet treatment using the scientific method. Even when some of these proponents are companies which make tens and hundreds of millions of dollars off the ignorance and/or desperation of others.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
But if you would have actually read Gentry's work, you might understand that he specifically dealt with that objection (cracks allowing flow of radon) in his 1971 and 1974 papers. He showed that the surroundings of the sites where the Po-218 was shown to be had no cracks, fissures, nor crystal imperfections. In short, no way for the Rn to get in there.
But it's a known fact that crystallization of those rocks can occur after the main deposit is formed, so determining whether or not any cracks existed at the time of the depositing of the Rn is impossible. From the article I quoted previously:
Seismic activity opens cracks causing a vacuum into which hydrous fluids carry Ra222. The Ra222 falls out of solution when it decays to Po218. The crystal lattice structure of biotite and flourite contain sites that can accommodate negatively charged fluoride and hydroxyl ions. Po218, Po214, and Po210 are also negatively charged ions similar in size to fluoride and hydroxyl ions. Consequently, polonium isotopes take up lattice positions and concentrate in the biotite and fluorite crystals. The continued replacement mineral intergrowth fills in some of the original cracks giving the appearance of undisturbed granite (Hunt 1992). Although most pictures show halos either along or near obvious cracks.
In other words, you're putting belief in something for which it is impossible to produce evidence. That's bad science.
Actually, the poor level of scholarship is shown more in the (so far) failed attempts to discredit Gentry. Ad hominem attacks on qualified scientists, attacks such as your post, don't help your cause much.
How do you address the fact that in 1994, Gentry produced a video in which he said that the Scientific community has been so stunned by his "discoveries" that they haven't even attempted to refute his claims, when numerous Scientists have more than just attempted to refute them -- they've trounced his claims?
This denial of reality is what I mean when I talk about poor levels of scholarship. Don't you have any interest in your own intellectual integrity? Or do you really think that you can get to Jesus through deceit?
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
After that all that's left is to make little balls of the sugar, put them in little blue glass capsules, stick a fancy latin name on it, then laugh all the way to the bank.
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
I was trying to not comment on this old canard, but this is the third comment in this thread saying this and I couldn't take it any more.
When exactly is "very recently"? "Best models" according to whom?
It is true that under one simple approximation of fluid mechanics -- the one attributed to Bernoulli that discounts non-linear effects, which makes it easy for high-school students to analyse -- insects' wing-loading is too high to be explained. This doesn't even come close to being "our best models of aerodynamics".
If you didn't learn simple fluid mechanics in high-school, blame it on your pathetic school system. After all it's just plain conservation of energy and momentum. If you feel like doing some research, look up the Navier-Stokes equation -- from the 19th century.
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
Actually, the Laws of Thermodynamics as primarily empirical and not theoretical. A simple creation of a magnetic monopole (never been done, but significantly not theoretically impossible) would provide an obvious way to generate work (and violate the 2nd law) if attached to a rotor on a current carrying axle.
Humans are ill-suited for all sorts of things that we do every day. Scuba diving, mountain climbing, [...]
Yes, scuba diving and sending people into space, etc. are very interesting and perhaps to the romantically inclined, even noble, but the point here is "are they science?" They are not in and of themselves science -- they are just clever applications of engineering. At best they could conceivably be used as tools for asking a scientific question. But NASA's manned missions have shown little emphasis on science.
I guess you're just quoting from some sources, I have to warn you they are not reliable. Anything claiming that "Po218, Po214, and Po210 are also negatively charged ions similar in size to fluoride and hydroxyl ions" is so far out of the ballpark it's amazing.
This may well be true. I don't claim to be an expert in the area and am relying on sources that seem to be taking a Scientific approach. That's really all I can do at this point, since I'm not going to take the time to study the subject until I'm on par with a professional in the field. Instead, what I must do in this type of situation is to read the summary texts and basic explanations, attempting to find little signs as to the scholarship and adherence to Scientific methods of the authors.
For example, when Gentry says in the mid 90's that no one has even attempted to address his discoveries, it's obvious to me that he's not a person you can trust. You still refuse to address this, despite my bringing it up previously.
Also remember the half-life of Po, we're talking 3.05 minutes for 218, and 150 microseconds for 214. So if Rn dropped out of solution, there would be enough time for the Po 218 to move for a while before all of it decayed, leading to a "tube" appearance.
Nonsense. That's pure speculation. From what I've read, the Rn can pool like bubbles quite rapidly. Since these are processes that no one is really able to reproduce in the lab, your guess is really as good as mine. The only alternative would be to devise some advanced computer models to simulate the situation. I doubt that anyone cares enough to do so in this case, since simple non-God explanations exist.
Likewise Pb-214 (first decay of Po-218), with a 26.8 minute, then Bi-214 with a 19.7 minute, then to Po-214. So there would be weeks between the precipation of Rn 222 (3.825 day half life) and the final decay of Po-214 to get 95% of the Rn222 decayed. In that time there would sure be a "blur". There are none that I'm aware of - do you have peer reviewed, published results to show those? If not, then your scenario does not hold water.
Well, this isn't a subject that has received tons of attention. It's a minor oddity that Gentry has locked onto because he thinks it proves something, but plenty of Scientists have offered rational explanations for why that oddity exists. Most geologists have better things to do with their time, I'd imagine. It's kind of like the egg mystery that was only recently resolved. The exact physics behind why a boiled egg could be spun like a top and a non-boiled egg couldn't be was a mystery. Because God did it? No, because it's a relatively insignificant oddity that no one cared about enough to look at it seriously until recently. This halo thing is the same. No one really cares, and the explanations of how they might have gotten there seem logical enough for most people to go on about their more important businesses.
I found a link that better explains all of the details of how those bubbles of Rn can form and how certain types of rock can reform their crystal structures without returning to the molten state, leading to the curious nature of the halos. Plus, the authors mention numerous reasons why Gentry is barking up the wrong tree. For example, all of the Po halo rocks are found right near uranium deposits, which give off a lot of Rn gas, which then explains the source of the gas for the Po halos. It seems like if Uranium/Radon weren't involved in the process that Po halo deposits would show no relation to Uranium deposits... but they do.
Besides, this whole argument is flawed from the beginning. If God created the universe in 6 days about 6,000 years ago, why did he make most other things appear as though they'd been in existence for billions of years? If God really wanted to leave "fingerprints", the night sky would be relatively dark because the light from most currently visible stars wouldn't have had time to reach us. We'd be all amazed to note how new stars would be appearing all the time, and their appearances would correspond to their distances from us. To the contrary, we can see stars that were formed billions of years ago.
Another example: In the arctic regions, there are layers of ice created by the yearly cycle of buildup and melting. Each year creates a quite visible line in the ice. Scientists have been studying core samples for years now. Typically, they can count about 100,000 lines in the ice before they pressure has blurred things too much to be able to distinguish more. 100,000 lines correspond to 100,000 years. Wouldn't it be interesting if there were on the order of 6,000 lines?
Jeez, and I haven't even brought Evolution into the mix. The weight of evidence in favor of billions of years of evolution is completely overwhelming. One little physical oddity is nothing against the mountain of evidence for evolution. Add in the fact that there are reasonable explanations for that oddity, and the game is over.
Well, I've spent enough time on this oddity myself.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
A variation of Reiki was making a fairly big stir a decade and a half ago. I recall reading about a double-blind study whereby people would put wounded arms through a hole in a screen. They would either be treated or not treated, and it was not possible for them to see, hear or have a tactile sense of whether or not they were being treated by one of the a 'Healing Touch' (as it was called), specialists. -The healer just ran their hands several inches above the person's wound, never making contact. --Or they would just stand there and do nothing.
The results were that the treated patients responded with wounds healing in about half the time of that of the control group. -I wish I could post a reference, but it was in a respected newspaper article written a decade and a half ago, so a reference is simply not going to happen. I'm sure a Skeptic will say that I mis-remember the text, or that the reporter was a fool, or whatever. A Skeptic could deny the blue of the sky if he was bent on it. Socrates was good at this kind of logical nonsense as well. Most Skeptics are no better than the scam-astrologers.
And here's another item the Skeptics will love. I know several people who can see energy directly, and one who can even manipulate it. I have my own stories about why I believe this, which I won't bother retelling here. Skeptics can come up with endless reasons to disbelieve. Fair enough. The problem is that either they are wrong or I am wrong. --And the time is quickly approaching when one's fate is going to rest upon just how aware one is of what is and is not real.
Dangerous, no?
It would pay to be careful about who one believes and how deep one looks into matters. And never forget; The bad guys own the media.
-Fantastic Lad
:).
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Manned flight didn't make any money at all for 50 years! There are hundreds of examples of people pushing the bounds of science without regard for profit which turned out to be very benificial to humanity in the long run.
Making a profit should not be the main goal of human activity. The main goal of humanity is to push the bounries of knowledge, art, and reason. We should be working towards a better future, not just making a buck next quarter.
Would you have vetoed Columbus's voyage because there was likely no profit in it?
Anarchists never rule
And your selective quoting of "Our study has no major implications for clinical practice because we found little evidence of effectiveness of any single homeopathic approach on any single clinical condition." is positively Orwellian. This was a meta-study of 89 separate studies, most of which analysed the effects of homeopathy in different conditions. Given that, it is quite obvious that it would never find effectiveness of any single homeopathic approach, because that wasn't what it was looking for. You wouldn't find evidence of this kind for penicillin if you took a metastudy of its use in 89 different conditions.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
I recall reading about a double-blind study whereby people would put wounded arms through a hole in a screen.
.
It's a million dollars if you can do that in front of James Randi. But somehow, whenever any one who can do that gets near a skeptic, the ability goes away. Funny how that happens . .
The bad guys own the media.
Good or bad is relative to your perspective. What makes the media owners "bad"? Why should we waste our time fighting them? They're clearly beyond us - Israelis and Arabs, liberals and democrats, facists and communists, all working together? Not only can we not stop them, maybe we shouldn't. They may have a way to bring peace to world, since they have the power and the obvious ability to escape all the things that divide us.
A bunch of people mentioned this fakester. I caught his show when channel hopping one night. "Christ on a bike!", I exclaimed, "This is the kind of bollocks people were routinely debunking as fraud a hundred or so years ago!"
Scott Kurtz of PVP did a brilliant pisstake of this guy at the start of April.
"Information wants to be paid"
In what way does having manned space flight work towards a better future? There is nothing worthwile going on in manned space. The ISS is teaching us nothing. The shuttles much vaunted ability to returns stuff from space to earth has been almost totally unused. Because of the shuttles inability to reach geosync orbit, satellites have to have incredibly complicated systems to get them out of the cargo bay and into orbit, which has resulted in a terrible reliability rating, for example Leasat F3, and it's STILL more expensive than a rocket such as the Delta III. If NASA cancelled the shuttle and all manned space flights, and put their resources into unmanned space they could achive much more, and cost less. The military realized this a long time ago, which is why they don't use the shuttle any more.
I would have vetoed Columbus's voyage because the man was an idiot who totally miscalculated the size of the earth. However, if he HAD achived his goal, which was a quicker and easier route to India, then it would have had objective benefits immediatly. There are no benefits on the horizon for manned space flight.
The thing you are ignoring here, is that your level of ignorance is YOUR problem. I have no vested interest in how blind you choose to be.
So, please post an experiment by which we can all test your claim.
See above. You'll figure it out when you're ready, though it doesn't sound like it'll happen this life time. No matter. I suspect you'll be working on your next rather sooner than you might like to believe.
Seriously, you need to see someone to help you with whatever bizarre beliefs you've picked up. You sound like a new-age cult memeber. When was the last time you talked to your own family?
Make no mistake: Cults are dangerous in the extreme. They abridge free thought and strongly discourage curiosity and questioning. (Much like normal society, and certainly any religous movement you care to point at.) I assure you, there are VERY few people of my type out there. Though, those I do run across are nearly always individuals of great power, influence, intellect and charisma who have or do hold one or more respected stations in the regular world. (Though they often take breaks from it. The effort to maintain the mask is difficult. Castaneda called it, "Controled Folly", and he was right on the money.)
Part of the challenge of higher awareness is not just in seeing the illusion for what it is, but in still being able to function within it. It's rather like having the cheat codes to life, but suddenly no longer being able to truly care about the game.
Now here's an exercise for you: See if you can't figure out why 'proving' these things to people of normal stature is foolish, dangerous and selfish in the extreme. --The thousand temple massacre in China over the last five years might supply an indicator or two. But beyond such a simple aspect, consider that abridging free will is a serious no-no for the good guys.
I've raised a few cautioning eyebrows from those I know regarding my outspoken activities for exactly these reasons. I hold back a great deal. Try this on for size: Providing proof effectively forces a belief structure, and this abridges free will.
--I know that may sound like a cop-out to somebody coming from what you believe to be a perspective of pure scientific reasoning, but believe me, through my own experiences I know that providing proof that the world is not what it seems, can really hurt people. I've pushed before and I've seen just how much damage can be caused when one is not ready to receive. --Luckily, those I've dealt with had the fortunate ability to 're-boot' their brains after a couple of weeks. I've watched people actively erase entire experiences from their memory in order to carry on with their normal lives. Remarkable. Luckily, they also didn't try to wring my neck, though this is not at all uncommon either. Fight or flight.
However, there is nothing wrong with providing invitations to knowledge. Those who are ready to start looking can benefit enormously when somebody tells them that, yes, it's okay to question the current paradigm. There are certainly powerful negative forces out there more than willing to manipulate truth, abridge free-will and generally keep people chained up in ignorance.
But basically, it works like this: The Universe is a school for the soul. People will advance when they are ready. Pushing them ahead messes up the lesson. -And this in itself is a lesson, one which I am currently trying to learn myself. When I learn it properly, I suspect I will be able to perform without causing ripples except where I specifically intend them. Right now, I tend to have too much passion and an urge to say more than I should.
-Fantastic Lad
It really was a brake pad. Check out the disk brake pads for the Honda Civic. They are round.
The truth shall set you free!
I don't know about you, but I get allergies, and moving from Eastern North America to Western North America merely changed which annoying plant byproducts I was exposed to. They're finally starting to make antihistamines that have more beneficial effects than annoying side effects (yay, Zyrtec!), but if your main choices are between taking drowsiness-causing antihistamines every 4-12 hours or wimpy not-very-useful ones (did Seldane ever actually work?) or mildly-digestive-upsetting homeopathic remedies every 1-2 hours, sometimes I'll go for the homeopathic and sometimes I'll go for the chemicals. Or you can go with Allergy shots, which are somewhere in between the homeopathic and allopathic flavors of medicine - for some people they really help.
For "flu", it's often helpful to get flu vaccinations, but sometimes they don't cover the flu you actually get, and Modern Scientific Medicine's advice usually runs to "Bummer, man, it's viral - stay in bed and drink chicken soup like your mom told you./i>" I've found that "Alpha CF" from Boericke & Tafel can often take me from feeling really really lousy to merely not feeling very good, which is enough to be worth driving to The Quackery Shop for ; other people like a preparation that probably isn't spelled Oscillococcinium. If it doesn't work for you, don't take it.
Meanwhile, the FDA's fundamental principle is that a bunch of guys with guns paid for by your tax dollars know more about medicine than you do, and that that therefore they should throw you in the clink for using or selling medicines that they haven't approved, just like their buddies at the DEA or Prohibition Agency can. Sorry, wrong answer - it's my body, and if I feel like buying Dr. Feelgood's Super Snake Oil, that's my business. Often, of course, they're right - there's a lot less bad medicine on the market because of them, and they've usually done a really excellent job of enforcing quality control on the big drug companies. But they ought to be acting like Consumer Reports or Underwriters' Laboratories, not like omniscient cops. And they've also done a huge amount of harm
FDA practices also limit the real scientific work done by the herbal medicine people, since scientifically acceptance-testing those products is expensive and patenting plant-based medicines is difficult. This pushes the whole herbal-medicine and alternative-medicine world more toward quackery, because the herbal players can't compete in the scientific-medicine market and aren't allowed to print real scientific testing results on their products even if they bother testing them.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
So if you know the reference quantity, and know the molecular weight of the medical substance, you can figure out how many molecules are in a drop of liquid medicine or a tablet. If the dilution starts to get pretty high, it's no longer simple division, because the number of molecules you have is an integer, so you need to apply probability and statistics to determine how many of those molecules were in the pill *you* got, and whether it's likely to be Zero or not. I forget the reference quantities, and obviously the divisibility is much different for a simple molecule like sodium chloride than for a complex plant mixture where each type of molecule might be a few thousand atoms, but that's just a scale factor - if something is 3X, your pill has a lot of stuff in it, if it's 20X, you might or might not have the interesting molecule in it, because that's about the limit, and if the preparation is 30X you're more likely to win the Powerball Lottery than to have a molecule of Foobaricus Magicus in *your* pill or dropperfull unless there are product contamination problems. "Clumping" doesn't really help - it increases the chances that some pills/drops will have a higher dose and others will have none at all.
Now, the effect of the concentration is still a discussable item, though the "more dilution makes the medicine stronger" is one of the quasi-religious tenets of homeopathy that make it a quack theory rather than science. Obviously if there are no molecules at all of your materia medica, it's not going to have any effect beyond the placebo effects or the effects of the dilutant. (Unless, of course, you actually believe, as one gushing enthusiast wrote, that the energy the molecules left behind after diluting them all away is what really causes the powerful effects. And she was talking about a 10X product, where there actually was still a trivial but non-zero concentration of material in it.) But within the more common ranges I've seen on products I've used, usually 2X-6X, there really is stuff there, at quantities you could do scientific testing on, or at least lots of trial&error if you're not the scientific sort, to determine what works best.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
But there is legitimate active research into pot's cancer-curing potential.
Hey, what got me put on your foes list?
__
Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
"You and your loved ones will be long dead. If the sun goes nova, the ones on outer colonies will surive, but those here on Earth are dead, anyway, so it can't just be compassion for fellow beings.
So someone tell me why it's so important that humanity not die out?"
I don't quite follow the last part of your argument. Why does a doctor bother treating people who aren't his loved ones, or developing cures for diseases he'll never have? Out of a desire to do good, and a general desire to perpetuate the human race.
It's unlikely that the sun will go nova anytime soon (or, depending on who you ask, ever). Far more likely is that a sizable chunk of orbiting rock will slam into the planet, or that some nutcase with an axe to grind will precipatate a full-blown nuclear or biological distaster.
Both of those things could could certainly happen within my lifetime, though I certainly hope they don't. If they happened now they could easily leave a sizable portion of the human population dead, and a large chunk of the planet uninhabitable for a long time to come.
Under those circumstances I'd prefer that the human race didn't disappear or end up back in the dark ages. Even if no one I know and none of my descendants are personally involved.