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GeekPAC

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the 1000-geek-march dept.

SgtXaos writes "The newly created American Open Technology Consortium has posted a draft of their position statement online. They propose to change that by forming a real lobbying force to educate and influence congress about issues near and dear to all of us geeks. Here's a chance to put money where our uh, er, typing is." Newsforge (also part of OSDN) has a story and interview with the founders.

73 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. Prices. by saintlupus · · Score: 5, Funny

    a chance to put money where our uh, er, typing is.

    If only senators were "free-as-in-beer." Well, senators besides Teddy Kennedy...

    --saint

    1. Re:Prices. by DA-MAN · · Score: 2, Funny

      judging by some of the bonehead decisions they make regarding technology, it's quite possible that they are "drunk-as-in-beer"(tm).

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
  2. great idea by bluecalix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's about time that people with intelligence and money get together to have our say. Even a very small group that is organized can make a difference if their time is used wisely. It's unfortunate but the best way to get our point across is to put our own shills in place in DC to corner the politicos one on one.

    --
    e x p e c t d e l a y . c o m
  3. proposal of a draft of a framework? by ghostlibrary · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So there's a proposal of a draft to consider a position statement about creating a framework for moving towards forming a possible entity. Wow! They have the political process down pat! Lots of action words and nothing real yet!

    Seriously, it is a good thing, I just love these early, tentative stages. I'll likely pledge. I do think taking 'geekpac' as a contact name will be negative PR, even though "reclaiming geekhood" is trendy now.

    --
    A.
  4. Not bad. by llamalicious · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Gotta applaud this for spirit though, we have to have someone on our side that can build up some clout.
    But it's still one more four-letter acronym, and another pile of legislative paper to file. May the gods have mercy on their souls.

    My favorite statement:
    Once access is solidified into the hands of a very few companies, the "bottom up" content flow model of the Internet will be put in lethal jeopardy. This small group of companies that will control the access, will also be able to control the flow of content TYPE. The Internet as we know it will cease to exist. The absurd notion that the 4 major phone companies need protection FROM the ISP business community is laughable. Near 10,000 businesses may be legislated out of existence in favor of FOUR companies. This bill is so fundamentally anti-business, anti-entrepreneur and anti-American; it is SHOCKING that it was passed by Republicans, a traditionally Pro-business party.

    Shocking? Methinks not. The Republican party may be "traditionally" pro-business. But each individual representative is simply pro-money-in-my-pocket.
  5. One possible strategy. by Apreche · · Score: 4, Insightful

    America likes to believe it's #1 in everything. I think that if we showed the senators/representatives and the American people that we are behind everyone else in consumer technology (we ARE ahead in military technology), and that it is because of legislation like the DMCA, that we might start seeing some changes.

    If you don't think we're behind you might want to look at some Japanese cell phones http://www.nokia.co.jp or some of those incredibly fuel efficient cars from Europe. I don't have a link for those, but just a normal Fiat is more fuel efficient than an SUV. Gas prices go down! Especially a good idea now with our middle east action.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    1. Re:One possible strategy. by Luguber123 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, Nokia is from Finland as in Linux.

    2. Re:One possible strategy. by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Funny

      Isn't anything more fuel efficent than an SUV?

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    3. Re:One possible strategy. by laserjet · · Score: 2

      I think semi tractors are less fuel efficient, but at least that is because they haul some major cargo.: )


      I don't know how many times I have seen a big SUV, like an excursion, etc, and there is just one woman in the drivers seat - the whole rest of the damn thing is empty.


      it bothers me to see people so wasteful, but america will stop being so wasteful when it is forced to be. that is also when we will make a REAL effort to alternative transportation. when we HAVE to.

      --
      Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
    4. Re:One possible strategy. by pjrc · · Score: 2
      I think that if we showed the senators/representatives and the American people that we are behind everyone else in consumer technology...

      I recall reading an article years ago from a lobbist regarding stragegy for removing the export restrictions on strong encryption. It wasn't long ago when it was nearly impossible to export more than 40 bit encryption.... which was a pain, but then it did bring us the weak DVD algorithms :)

      Anyway, this guy's point was that "it puts American companies at an economic disadvantage" was a losing strategy. He made his point primarily by showing various actions our elected and non-elected officials took, which basically ammounted to putting pressure on the rest of the world to enact and enforce similar restrictions. After all, if the problem was off-shore companies had an advantage, the obvious solution (to those in power) was to level the playing field. Why compromise on other important objectives, like "national security" and "law enforcement" (whatever the DOJ/FBI happens to want) when the "goal" can be accomplished in some other creative way. Much as that sucks.... they really were doing their jobs, trying to make policies to balance all the needs, and the anti-encryption need was a level playing field among off-shore software companies.

      The winning strategy that he proposed was "with e-commerce and internet fraud, we can't afford not to allow encryption". The premise was that there's a giant carrot dangling out there... e-commerce (remember, this was before the giant dot-com bust) and the pro-encyption arguement went along the lines of "we gotta have encryption to enable e-commerce and the new ecomony, yadda, yadda...".

      Of course, I didn't really follow that whole battle closely, so I can't really say what a factor that lobbist and his e-commerce based strategy had. In fact, I can't even find the original article anymore.

      Anyway, the point is to be careful what you wish for. At least once before, with the encryption export regulations, the "American companies are at a disadvantage" strategy was a dismal failure for several years.... and the natural conclusion lawmakers had was "well, we just need to export our restrictions, and we're the USA, so we can eventually pressure everyone else into them".

      --
      PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
    5. Re:One possible strategy. by laserjet · · Score: 2

      oh, don't give me this bull shit. if you can afford to buy a $35,000 SUV, you have other options. for instance, you could:


      a) buy a used SUV for $25,000 and buy a $10,000 commuter car


      b) buy a slightly smaller SUV


      c) 1000 other options...


      these people drive brand new SUVs because they want to, not because they can't afford anything else. your argument is utter bullshit. There are many possibilities if they wanted another option.

      --
      Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
  6. Too bad... by JordanH · · Score: 2
    That Campaign Finance Reform passed. Now, PACs like these have far less influence than they once might have had.

    After the next election, it will be illegal for PACs to run issue ads 60 days before an election.

    Can you imagine that? Illegal to speak up about an important issue 60 days before an election, when it might do the most good?

    I guess they had to get the corrupting power of the voice of the people, err, money, out of politics.

    1. Re:Too bad... by renehollan · · Score: 2
      Can you imagine that? Illegal to speak up about an important issue 60 days before an election, when it might do the most good?

      Standard fare in places like Canada, except elections generally run far less than a month. Only official agents of political candidates may authorize advertising.

      And, yes, this sucks: it means the public at large can't expose candidate's previous records during an election.

      --
      You could've hired me.
    2. Re:Too bad... by keefebert · · Score: 3, Insightful
      While I understand your concern, I doubt that this PAC would be one of the ones who would be dropping ads 60 days before the election. The law was passed to stop the NRAs and EPAs from dropping exspensive, sometimes decietful ads right before the election when no one can do anything about them.

      This PAC, on the other hand, probably couldn't do that anyway, so it doesn't matter. They still will be able to lobby congress and do all that other stuff, and it allows them to save their money instead of trying to throw out 1 or 2 commercials that will get lost in the blizzard of campaign ads.

    3. Re:Too bad... by acaben · · Score: 2

      But, PACs can still donate up to $5000 to each candidate directly each election, to let the candidate run his own race. I'd much rather see that hard money going to campaigns which follow incredibly strict FEC guidelines for reporting sources of income than have an ad on TV paid for by a PAC which isn't identified.

    4. Re:Too bad... by JordanH · · Score: 2
      • I'd much rather see that hard money going to campaigns which follow incredibly strict FEC guidelines for reporting sources of income than have an ad on TV paid for by a PAC which isn't identified.

      I admit that I was wrong about this PAC. It almost certainly would deal in mostly hard money and not be affected by CFR.

      However, I prefer issue ads that speak directly to the people on the importance of the issues of the day rather than our having to shoehorn the issues into some politician's agenda.

      It seems that regulation that would require issue ads to reveal the sources of their contributions would be far less intrusive than a straight ban on issue ads during certain seasons.

    5. Re:Too bad... by Golias · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Fortunately, down here in the US, the very first amendment to our constitution addresses this sort of thing, so most people who have been following this believe that the Supreme Court will strike down most of the current reforms as unconstitutional.

      Congress actually had the balls to pass a law which says you can not buy a newspaper ad or tv spot to criticize a sitting congressman during the two months before an election, without it counting as part of the limited campaign budget of his opponent. If your representative or senator voted for this, remember that in the next election.

      One work-around that occurred to me is to choose a third-party or no-party candidate who is nowhere near winning and nowhere near the spending cap, and then claim to be supporting them. That way, you could run a half-hour infomercial slamming Paul Welstone, end the commercial with "paid for by friends of Joe Blow, an independant candidate for Minnesota Senator," and none of it would count against his leading opponent's campaign, even that's who would benifit most. Hmmm....

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    6. Re:Too bad... by monkeydo · · Score: 2

      The law was passed to stop the NRAs and EPAs from dropping exspensive, sometimes decietful ads right before the election when no one can do anything about them.

      You seem to be misinformed. The NRA is one group that will not be affected by the recent unconstitutional law. You see, regardless of what your have been told the NRA doesn't spend member's dues or corporate donations on these kinds of things. The NRA does have a special fund for political action, but the monies are kept seperate, and therefore won't be affected by this legislation.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    7. Re:Too bad... by renehollan · · Score: 2

      Yes, Americans had some pretty good ideas in that constitution of theirs. It's a real pity that these days, they let it be treated like toilet paper.

      --
      You could've hired me.
  7. They MUST change the name by LordNimon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry, but no politician is going to take an organization with the name "geek" in it seriously. They need to choose a name that makes it sound like they represent the CIO's of major companies. Just think of what a Senator's first impression will be when his secretary tells him, "The gentleman from GeekPAC is here to see you, sir."

    --
    And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
    To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    1. Re:They MUST change the name by west · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed, given that legislation that throws widows and orphans onto the street would probably be named the "Human Mobility and Properity Act", names do mean something in the minds of senators.

      Since in America government, business is what really counts, we need something business-like in its name.

      How about InnoPAC?

      "InnoPAC. Brought to you by the *real* innovators."

    2. Re:They MUST change the name by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 2

      Let's face it, west has a point (no pun intended for any military types out there!).

      Example: "Security Systems
      Standards and Certification Act" or "Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act"?

      They do the exact same thing, but second one sounds nice and warm and fuzzy, and certainly doesn't sound like it might do anything ominous like restrict our rights or cripple our hardware.

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    3. Re:They MUST change the name by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 2

      Done properly no one in Congress needs to know that we refer to this organization among ourselves as "GeekPAC". In fact, considering the bad press that political action committees have gotten, maybe staying away from the acronym "PAC" is as important as staying away from the label "geek".

      Personally I think "American Open Technology Consortium" will work just fine unless we come up with something better.

      --
      Someone you trust is one of us.
    4. Re:They MUST change the name by beme · · Score: 3, Informative

      How about
      AMERICAN OPEN TECHNOLOGY CONSORTIUM
      ?

      (Which is actually what it's called.)

      --

      -beme
      1971
  8. fracturing effort? by rknop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm sure there is a good reason-- but I don't see it at the moment, so I'm hoping somebody will enlighten me. Why is trying to get people to put money and energy behind this a better idea than helping to promote the existing organizations working towards similar goas, such as the EFF? My fear is that this effort will dilute some of the broadbased support for the EFF, and instead of one organization which we can hope will become marginally strong enough to perhaps do something, we're going to have two organizations that look really good but aren't nearly beefy enough to compete with the current special interests purchasing legislators.

    -Rob

    1. Re:fracturing effort? by Spoing · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You mean like this?

      1. "Enough is enough is enough," he added. "It is time for people in the technology community to open up their wallets and donate money to the EFF and fund this political action committee ... We've got to do this or we're going to lose, folks, it's that simple."

      The EFF had a Washington D.C. based branch, but backed out of it because they didn't like how they were pressured into endorsing really bad ideas inorder to gain clout on the issues they were primarily interested in.

      Will Geek Pac work better? If they know going in that this is the way D.C. works, they might be able to deal with it.

      Either way, it might be more effective to have two different organizations -- one 'Washington insider' and another clean of such dreck and nonsense.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    2. Re:fracturing effort? by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 4, Informative
      I was under the impression tha the EFF was a 501(c)(3) (tax-exempt public charity). If so, they are prohibited from contributing to political campaigns or spending more than a certain amount lobbying to affect legislation.

      There is a need for a non-tax-exempt PAC who can fill that role.

      The big question in my mind is does this effort redundant given what digitalconsumer.org is doing? It's also unclear to me that the GeekPAC people understand the tax status of organizations whose primary purpose is to lobby to affect legislation or to contribute to political campaigns. I don't believe that such contributions are tax-deductible.

      --

    3. Re:fracturing effort? by acaben · · Score: 2
      Why is trying to get people to put money and energy behind this a better idea than helping to promote the existing organizations working towards similar goas, such as the EFF?
      The EFF isn't a Political Action committee, though. They're an issue advocacy group, but one that can't give political donations to candidates. While there is no quid pro quoe (spelling?) when candidates accept political contributions from PACs, its obvious that some of the liars and cheaters in Congress use the donations when deciding on what legislation to support. The EFF is a wonderful organization and I'm a paying member. But, I've also gotten out my checkbook this morning to help support GeekPAC. It takes both to combat the effects that big business and corporate special interest groups have in Washington.
    4. Re:fracturing effort? by sulli · · Score: 3, Informative
      Digitalconsumer got my attention because they had something the others didn't: an auto-fax tool to send messages to elected officials, and a well-designed website. geekpac is not there yet, but might get there. I would STRONGLY encourage the organizers to at least see where their effort is complementary with digitalconsumer - even if it's a separate org, the two together (or three, with EFF) can be more effective.

      But the geekpac people have one thing very wrong. IRS section 501(c)4 is for organizations that explicitly lobby. (I know this because I am chair of an organization that is planning to incorporate under this section.) While the organization is non-profit, contributions to it are NOT tax deductible. The founders need to correct this in their doc if they want to be taken seriously by lobby/activists.

      Look, SOMEONE needs to be really aggressive about this stuff. I don't think EFF is the answer - they are just not in-your-face enough. digitalconsumer is better on the specific issue of S.2048. Maybe geekpac will be the answer, but they need to be much, much more aggressive in their message.

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
  9. instead of paying for lobbyists by KaizerWill · · Score: 2, Funny

    we should start a fund to buy public officials.

  10. show me the money! by peter303 · · Score: 2

    No way Geeks can fund PACS the size and stability of a MicroSoft, Oracle or Enron. Corporatios will always have more influence. For example, imigrant tech visas are still going up, nearly 400,000 requested last year, despite the tech slowdown.

    1. Re:show me the money! by Spoing · · Score: 2

      So do nothing?

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    2. Re:show me the money! by ronfar · · Score: 2
      The NRA represents gun owners, not gun companies. Sometimes, the NRA will manage to oppose bills that the gun manufacturers want (one possible example, banning cheap foriegn made guns). There has been some reporting on this, but I haven't got any links (or any time to look for them at work.)

      The NRA is a fairly effective lobbying group.

      But, GeekPAC? Don't they realize that the elderly gentlemen who run this country are going to have preconcieved notions about that terminiology?

      --
      All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
    3. Re:show me the money! by Fjord · · Score: 2

      Right now, sure. But if the PAC starts an endowment, you'd be surprised how quickly that can grow to the point where the income from it will match the lobby budget for a major corporation. MicroSoft, Oracle, and Enron all had to spend their revenue on production, maintaining their position, growth, and a million other thigns as well as lobbying. The PAC just has to do that one thing.

      --
      -no broken link
    4. Re:show me the money! by acaben · · Score: 2
      No way Geeks can fund PACS the size and stability of a MicroSoft, Oracle or Enron.

      True, corporations will always have the money to hire lobbyists and other high powered DC folk. But, the PAC scene is a bit different.

      There are limits on the amount of money a PAC can donate to a candidate. Currently, it's $5000 per election. So, if the GeekPAC can target the right candidates, they can have a large influence on some of those races.

    5. Re:show me the money! by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 2

      The most powerful lobbying group in Washington right now is the National Rifle Association. They have a ton of cash, and most of it comes from their five million members. The gun manufacturers themselves are miniscule in comparison, and certainly nowhere nearly as rich or powerful as Microsoft, Enron, or General Motors. I doubt there are five million geeks in the US, but a few hundred thousand geeks, throwing in $25 per year each, would create a sizeable war chest.

      --
      Finding God in a Dog
  11. Leveling the playing field... by Linuxthess · · Score: 5, Funny

    Senator Slash Dot (R. -Cubicle) proposed the Consumers Don't Want Your Shitty Broadband Anyways Act (CDWYSBAA)yesterday in congress. The vote split along partisan lines as Sen. Mickey Mouse, Sen. Donald Duck and Sen. Bugs Bunny (D. -Disney, TW) launched a vehement attack against it, calling it "Unpatriotic" and "Communistic" and mostly unfair to the multi-trillion dollar media companies, which never had to empower the consumer, other than taking a "Tariff" from his paycheck.

    --

    I sig, therefore I was.
  12. It's the Congres by AVee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the site:
    Individual Members: $25.00 minimum donation
    Individual members will receive a certificate of membership (electronic) and a monthly newsletter.
    Group Membership: $50.00 minimum donation
    Individual members will receive a certificate of membership (electronic) and a monthly newsletter.
    Corporate Membership: $500.00 minimum donation
    Corporate members will receive a framed and signed certificate of membership, the monthly newsletter, and the right to name a member of our "Advisory Board."
    Sustaining Member: $2,000.00 minimum donation
    Sustaining members will receive a certificate of membership (marble plaque), the monthly newsletter, the right to name a member of our "Advisory Board," and the right to put into nomination a member of the voting Board of Directors.

    It's supposed to deal with the congres, so they made it work the same way, the more you pay, the more you can say...

  13. A house divided by LaserBeams · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This will create some... interesting... situations in the geek communities. One one hand, the large majority of geeks are well educated, and know that PACs are a downright dirty loophole in the law, and most of them should be struck from the face of the earth.

    On the other hand, however, how could it hurt? Geeks are at best minimally represented in the government (despite what Gore may have thought), and we have a voice too - one that needs to be heard.

    Such a cruel irony that the majority of the intelligent people in this world are a numerical minority - and headcount - not barincount - is all that matters when it comes to representation. Oh yeah, and money too. We have plenty of that... [/dripping_with_sarcasm]

    Too bad representation isn't based on IQ/EQ (Emotional Quotient, not EverQuest =P ), or *gasp* even political knowledge.

    --
    Karma: \Kar"ma\, n. [Skr.] (Buddhism) One's acts considered as fixing one's lot in the future existence.
  14. Will the US suffer from geek emigration? by TeaDaemon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just a small point, but it stuck me that the more things like the DMCA and other stupid ideas render it difficult or impossible for people to do what they want/need to do to make a living, the greater the chance of them deciding to go somewhere with more sensible laws.



    The closest parallel I can think of is researchers working on Human Stem Cells, several prominent researchers have commented, mostly off-the-record, as they don't want hassle from idiotic pro-life religious lunatics, that any ban on human stem cell research will simply lead to them emigrating to a country where such research is allowed.



    My point is, what would it take to persuade geeks in the US that their government has gone too far and it's not worth trying to change things?



    1. Re:Will the US suffer from geek emigration? by Elbereth · · Score: 2

      Lots of people say they will leave the U.S. if a certain law is passed, a certain politician is elected, etc. It's rare for them to actually do it.

      I myself have given a lot of thought about whether I'd like to stay in a less free America or move.

      Canada has some nice attractions, including cold weather (I love snow), family (my uncle lives there), and the same basic culture as America. Since I speak French and am educated, it wouldn't be too difficult for me to get in. On the other hand, Canada has most of the same bone-headed laws as America.

      The EU would be pretty cool, but we're talking some major changes here. How long would I have to wait for American movies to open in the EU, for example? Probably weeks, if not months. Could I find any of my favorite foods? What about high speed access to the net? And while we're talking about the net, imagine all the net lag connecting to American web sites. There's a lot of potential drawbacks for someone used to taking everything about his life for granted. I'd even have to throw out all of my NTSC equipment and buy new PAL equipment. Ugh. Not to mention all my Region 1 DVDs...

      It's not so easy to be a global citizen.

    2. Re:Will the US suffer from geek emigration? by robbieduncan · · Score: 2

      Movies - getting batter Star Wars for example is getting the same release date in the Uk and the US a(and we're a couple of hours ahead here so will see it first. Net access - I've got ADSL, you need it faster than that? Web sites - it's not really noticable. NTSC - keep it - my TV will do PAL and NTSC.

    3. Re:Will the US suffer from geek emigration? by martyn+s · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The stuff you own ends up owning you ... It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything." --tyler durden

    4. Re:Will the US suffer from geek emigration? by Stephen+VanDahm · · Score: 2

      "Well, you can move to sweden. =)"

      I, for one, would give my immortal soul to move to Sweden. I could totally live without all the American things that I wouldn't be able to find in Europe. While Sweden has it's problems, I have a lot of admiration for the country and it's people, and would love a chance to live there.

      As an American, though, it would be hard to pull it off. First of all, while I'm competant, I'm not a Linus Torvalds, and I can't do anything that a Swede couldn't do. I expect that it would be hard for me to get a job in Sweden, even doing IT stuff. No job offer, no work permit.

      Second, I don't speak any Scandenavian languages. I'm guessing that a Swedish business wouldn't offer a job to someone who can't speak a word of Swedish. While the Europeans that I've met speak English well, it's not proper for me to go off to some country and require everyone to speak English simply because I'm around.

      However, I haven't given up hope that one day I'll end up somewhere in Europe. It's worth a shot, at least....

      Steve

  15. Wonder how this will work out. by Unipuma · · Score: 3, Funny

    The usual lobbyist would probably promise a contribution to the election campaign, but the geek lobbyist could help the congressman to program his VCR.

  16. Already been done by YouAreFatMan · · Score: 3, Funny
    A fundamental belief in the freedom of speech, the freedom of association, the freedom to innovate, and the basic principles of entrepreneurism and the free enterprise system of economics.

    I thought that someone else is already protecting our right to innovate...

    --
    Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
  17. Good idea but not likely to be effective by zeugma-amp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a god idea in theory, but unless a lot more than $100,000 can be raised, it won't be able to do much of anything. In the article, it mentioned possibly hiring proffesionals to lobby for the effort in the future. I'm sure the organizers realize that retaining someone with any kind of pull (of the type noted by Rand) will take most if not all of the sums they are talking about. It costs a lot of money to play the game in the D.C. (District of Criminals).

    That said, it probably wouldn't hurt to try to get some folks to make the geek POV heard at least a little bit. The effort will need a more serious-sounding name though. While GeekPac sounds good in a whimsical sort of way, I don't think it would help to get our foot in the doors that are necessary.

    I'll probably donate to this effort once they get to the point of actually taking donations, but I won't have much hope for it at this time. Judging from the article, it sounds like this is somewhat affiliated with EFF. I would think that this effort could undermine other work the EFF is doing. I could be wrong on that I suppose.

    One thing we definitely need as people who are interested in freedom of all kinds, is a way to counter the power of Disney, Time/Warner, and the other providers of crappy content that spend more money on coffee a month than this effort is looking at raising in a year.

    --
    This is an ex-parrot!
    1. Re:Good idea but not likely to be effective by lkaos · · Score: 2

      Having contributed to EFF, I would also contribute to this organize if they were a bit more professional. I don't feel comfortable donating to something that only has a "draft" of their beliefs.

      I don't think that the EFF does much lobbying. I don't think they are that specific. If the EFF had a lobbying branch, that could be donated to independently, I would make a seperation donation to that.

      --
      int func(int a);
      func((b += 3, b));
  18. Geekhood is fine by me... by alispguru · · Score: 2

    I do think taking 'geekpac' as a contact name will be negative PR, even though "reclaiming geekhood" is trendy now.

    It could be worse, PR-wise. They could have called it "hackerPAC".
    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
    1. Re:Geekhood is fine by me... by Alsee · · Score: 2

      It could be worse, PR-wise. They could have called it "hackerPAC".

      I like HackPac. (HakPAC? HacPAC?)

      It's a very catchy name. It would have some initial PR-issues, but as a legitamate PAC I think it would quickly have a signifgant impact combating the negative use of "hacker". If the PAC has a large enough membership and some important corporate membership, important congresscritters *will* take it seriously. If important people start using the word hacker in a positive/legitimate context, other important people will notice, conciously or subconciously. Then the reporters. And then...

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  19. A tad unproffessional... by avdi · · Score: 2

    I'd be jumping on the bandwagon without a second thought if this looked like something other than a couple of junior-high h4XX0r5' attempt at an impressive-sounding proclamation. As it is, I'd be a little embarrassed to put my name to it in it's current form. Hopefully the proposal itself is open-source and subject to bugfixes...?

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    CPAN rules. - Guido van Rossum
  20. "Sustaining members" (members who pay enuf) get vo by Wolfier · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sooner or later you'll see this organization filled with MPAA sustaining members...

  21. "freedom to innovate" by kryzx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know what is scarier, the fact that they used the phrase "freedom to innovate", or the fact that a certain corporation has so corrupted that phrase that it makes me cringe and sets off warning alarms.

    This sounds like a good idea. We must play the game the way it's laid out, and that means forming PACs, funding them, and educating/greasing the right politicos to get what we want. I hope they succeed.

    --
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
  22. Is it surprising that it's needed ? by valen · · Score: 2, Interesting


    One of the things that Europeans love to feel smug about is the way that bribery is so indemic in US culture, that they have a special term for "political bribery" - lobbying.

    In most European countries, it's illegal to give politicians money in exchange for support for laws. Damn right. Otherwise, you get what happens in the US - rich companies get to make the laws everyone else stands by.

  23. GeekPAC is such a lame name... by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 2

    I think "NerdPAC" sounds a lot cooler!

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    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  24. Agree --- Need a Professional by idonotexist · · Score: 2

    I, too, have the same impression. Moreover, what real experience does someone with GeekPAC have with lobbying? I am sceptical of someone who has an extensive background/education in political scientist or someone who is alien to the process. What is necessary IMO is someone who is in the know: a current successful lobbyist, a popular member of a Congressional staff, or a former rep/senator.

    Anyone else is a waste of time, money, and hope.

    --
    "There ought to be limits to freedom"
  25. Score 0: Bad '70s Reference by realgone · · Score: 5, Funny
    Corporate Membership: $500.00 minimum donation - Corporate members will receive a framed and signed certificate of membership, the monthly newsletter, and the right to name a member of our Advisory Board.

    Okay. Here's $500. And your name is Flounder.

    1. Re:Score 0: Bad '70s Reference by acaben · · Score: 2
      Hmm.... They may need to check on this one. I don't know as much about PAC fundraising as I do about candidate fundraising, but I'm fairly sure that corporate donations are not allowed for a multi-candidate committee. From the FEC Guide for corporations and labor organizations (page 18)....
      Election law prohibits corporations and labor organizations from making contributions...in connection with federal races.

      I hope they double check that. FEC violations are very very serious things for PACs with signifcant fines.

    2. Re:Score 0: Bad '70s Reference by Alsee · · Score: 2

      Election law prohibits...

      They are aware of this issue. The website says that they are still debating which will be more important to them - corporate donations XOR the ability to contribute to campaigns.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  26. A PAC by quam · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Perhaps I am thinking inside a box, but based on my experience with campaigns and as an aide for three years to a politican, success in changing law(s) requires an organization with the following characteristics:
    • Broad Mission: Create an organization appealing to many. For instance, an organization with the goal to protect encryption is narrow. "Online civil liberties" also seems narrow to me. It doesn't seem DMCA would apply with that type of organization. However, an organization with the goal to advance "technology and civil liberties" is broad.
    • Local/State/National Structure: A national headquarters and a headquarters for each state with local chapters is established. Individuals wishing to join the organization must pay a due. Dues are distributed between the local, state and national organizations. Local chapters are strongly encouraged to conduct fundraisers (i.e.: btw, when I was at Krispy Kreme this weekend, I noticed organizations can sell doughnuts and keep up to 40% of the proceeds).
    • Local Chapters Defined By Political Boundaries With an 'Advisor': Each local chapter is generally divided along a congressional district line. This division depends on the methods used to create political boundaries within a state, but usually this type of organization allows for easy communication with elected officials. Congressman X who represents foo district within the city of foo knows all of local chapter foo is a constituent to him/her. Moreover, all activities of local chapter foo are able to influence effectively; no time is wasted on a communication or action intended to influence an elected official who doesn't give a damn because the communique or action does not originate from within his/her district. A local chapter becomes attuned with the activities of its elected officials. For instance, a chapter may have all of its members attend an elected official's town meeting.
    • Elections of Organization Leaders: The local chapter advisor or chairperson is elected by that chapter's members. A state chairperson is elected by all members of that state. The national chairperson is elected by all members throughout the nation.
    • Government Liaisons: Either (1) The local chairperson is the chief spokesperson in matters of that chairperson's respective district (this depends on how the chapter lines are drawn up --- generally the chairperson would be attached to the local congressman/woman), the state chairperson is the chief spokesperson in the respective state legislative matters, and the national chairperson is the chief spokesperson at the federal level; or (2) Each state and/or the national office has a lobbyist who is either selected via election of the members or is selected by the chairperson. Generally a government liaison receives some form of compensation.
      Sidenote: the most ineffective lobbyists imo are those with little work experience and a heavy educational background (PhD); the most effective lobbyists are those with previous work experience in the system as an elected official or aide.
    • Avoid Alignment with a Particular Political Party: Political tides may change quickly and those aligned with the losing side will likely be left out.
    • Acts for Legislative Change: Generally, the government liaison should be skilled to understand what methods are appropriate. These methods may include (1) tailor a common message or goal for each government officials, (2) communicating with each elected official the number of association members who are constituents, (3) during session go door-to-door to the offices of those officials of significance (i.e.: if the bill is in committee, visit only those on the committee (or, at times, someone who has influence on the committee) and visit members who do not have a position on the issue, may be swayed or may sway others), (4) develop rapport (speak/eat with staff, have lunch with the official (this does not require paying for the official's food), drop off gifts (i.e.: if the member likes grapefruits, bring by a basket of grapefruit) at the end of session, or (5) request letter campaigns from a specific local/state chapter(s) to a specified official and provide a model letter.


    Again, this information is just an overview of what I learned over several years and observing various political organizations. I am sure not all of the above information is accurate given different political environments or circumstances. Also, there is obviously more information required to fully explain how a political organization may be effective and it is not included here.
  27. Re:Mr. despair enters by bricriu · · Score: 2

    If only 3% of registered Slashdot members donate $25 anually, the PAC would have gross yearly income of around $2.5 M. I think that's more than enough to take someone out to lunch, don't you? :)

    Yes, I KNOW how big that "if" is. Thank you.

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    AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
    - Reakk, Sluggy Freelance

  28. Re:Mr. despair enters by bricriu · · Score: 2

    er, 33%. *cough, cough* Wow, would ya LOOK at the size of that if?

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    AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
    - Reakk, Sluggy Freelance

  29. The GeekPac name by PurpleHigh · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why is everyone up in arms over the name "GeekPac"? Both the draft document and the article confirm that the name of the PAC is American Open Technology Consortium; GeekPac is just the address to which pledges are going. I'm sure that if the effort gains momentum, they'll can establish an email address that's a little more professional.

  30. This really needs to be two efforts by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 2

    First, there needs to be an effort to educate the public about technological issues and how those issues relate to them. If the average person understands why laws like the DCMA and the CBDTPA are bad, they are more likely to influence their legislators to Do The Right Thing.

    Second, there needs to be the continuous Washington presence that educates the lawmakers on these issues (i.e., lobbies like mad).

    This is going to require two kinds of people in the organization (in addition to those of us who merely contribute, and those who encourage us to do so, i.e. fundraisers). The first will be those who can explain complex technical issues to the masses without sounding like a man page. Someone who looks and sounds good on Oprah. Yes, I said Oprah -- if you want to educate people you have to go someplace where they're listening, and getting the gatekeepers of public opinion on our side would be an Incredibly Good Thing. The second will be those who know how to play the Inside The Beltway game and know how to explain complex technical issues to Congresscritters, preferably in terms of how their support of tech-friendly legislation is going to get them re-elected.

    Basically, the people setting this up need to take notes on how organizations like The Sierra Club and The National Rifle Organization achieve their successes in Washington. We don't have to like them, share their views or have their money in order to learn from them.

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    Someone you trust is one of us.
  31. Amateur lobbying won't get anywhere by Reziac · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Geeks don't seem to understand that the majority of lobbyists are PROs. They do it for a living, and are for hire to whoever can pay the appropriate salary. They understand marketing to the Suits (and face it, Congress is made up of Suits) and through long experience, they know how to play the game.

    A bunch of amateurs will never get anywhere no matter how much money they spend. They'd be better off to HIRE a few experienced professional lobbyists and sic 'em on members of Congress who are as yet uncommitted wrt the Disney Act.

    "I'm the most loyal player money can buy." -- Don Sutton

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    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  32. bribery is not speech by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2
    Limiting soft money is, without a doubt, limiting free speech...

    There is, in fact, plenty of doubt about it.

    Try slipping fifty bucks to a cop to get out of a speeding ticket and claiming you were only exercising your free speech rights. Ridiculous, right? What if instead you offered to buy fifty bucks worth of advertizing space to promote his favorite charity, or the small business he runs on the side? That's still bribery.

    If the mayor knows that you want a proposed ordinance passed, and you "happen" to leave $1,000 on his desk, that's bribery. If a mayorial candiate knows that you would like him to press for a certain proposed ordinance, and you happen to leave $1,000 dollars on his desk, that's bribery. If you instead purchase $1,000 worth of campaign ads for him, that's still bribery.

    Speech is speech. Money in expectation of special treatment - which is exactly what large contributors are giving for - is bribery. We can debate the exact terms of the law, but outlawing bribery should not be a controvertial stand...

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    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
    1. Re:bribery is not speech by JordanH · · Score: 2
      • Speech is speech. Money in expectation of special treatment - which is exactly what large contributors are giving for - is bribery. We can debate the exact terms of the law, but outlawing bribery should not be a controvertial stand...

      There are lines to be drawn, sure, but equating the funding of issue ads with bribery seems a far stretch to me.

      Come on! People buy issue ads to convince the electorate of a position that might be the position of a candidate. That's bribery? Oh, just 60 days before an election, not 61? Besides, this law, which admittedly you did say was open to debate, opens up limits on hard money that's even more likely to be used as bribery.

      Do we really want a bureacracy determining when speech in the form of important issues has stepped over some line? When is money just supporting issue advocacy and when is it bribery? Don't you really need to prove that there is an expectation of special treatment? And, if that expectation of special treatment is just support of the issue being advocated, isn't this the way it's supposed to work? People are supposed to petition for the redress of grievances and then when politicians hear them and heed them, you're going to be examining the petition drive to make sure that this isn't some subtle form of bribery?

      Will it get to the point someday that I'll be arrested for bribery for telling a politician that I support his view on X and I plan to vote for him and tell all my friends to vote for him? How about if I run a Web Site that advocates a view held by a candidate? Must I shut this down 60 days prior to an election to avoid this bribery charge?

      As I said, full disclosure is what's needed. Very public issue ads aren't likely to influence politicians unduly if the electorate knows who's supporting what position. If all cases of real bribery were open to public view, we wouldn't really need bribery laws because the electorate would thrown the bums out. That may be a bit of an exaggeration as elections and recalls aren't held daily, but you get the idea.

      I'm not really concerned that the NRA is "bribing" politicians to support gun ownership views, or that NOW is "bribing" politicians to support pro-choice views, or that unions are "bribing" politicians on "Free Trade" issues. These are the groups that this law explicitly targets.

  33. An *International* problem by Archibald+Buttle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whilst at one level I think that it's high time an organisation such as the AOTC should be formed I cannot help but be slightly disappointed by this development.

    My problem is the "A" part of AOTC. The problems that the AOTC are aiming to address are not limited to America. The actions of the US government in relation to the Internet affects people and companies all around this planet, not just the relatively small population of the USA. Similarly the actions of other governments around the world have an effect on both companies and citizens within the USA.

    I really should not need to remind people that the Internet is a global network, and that laws and regulations concerning the Internet have international repercussions. Everybody reading this should already be familiar with the way in which the DMCA has been used to persecute foreign nationals who have done nothing illegal in their own country. It should also be obvious to everybody that if it is passed the CBTPA will have a profound affect on people all around the world; it is not only US citizens that could loose their jobs if this law passes.

    Please don't think that the USA is alone in suffering from dumb technology laws. Here in the UK we have our own dumb laws (such as the RIP Act) as well as those forced upon us by the European Parliament (like the DMCA-equivalent EC Copyright Directive). We need our own Open Technology Consortium, both for the UK and for Europe as a whole.

    Think a little about what it would be like if the European Parliament passed an equivalent to the CBTPA. (For those that don't realise it, Europe has a significantly larger population than the USA, and whilst we still have national governments we also have a European government which passes laws that all European Community member states must abide by.) Many thousands of US technology companies would be adversely affected by this, and as a consequence many US citizens too.

    The ideals, aims, and motivations that the AOTC represents are global in nature. Whilst they may be presently concerned with the activities of the US government if the AOTC is successful then they will eventually be forced to deal with foreign governments in order to protect the interests of their American members. Therefore I would argue that a national organisation for what is an international problem is foolish.

    An international organisation with the same aims would have many advantages, and few disadvantages. At a simple economic level it could attract a significantly higher membership. Since the arguments in favour of a more open technology market are globally relevant great synergy could be gained from a global approach. Establishing national groups within an international consortium would significantly help the ability of that organisation to influence national government and policy.

    Steve

  34. Exclude the MPAA and others like it by smagruder · · Score: 2

    Well, certainly this nascent organization can choose to not accept donations and/or participation from entities (such as the MPAA) that are considered to be against what the organization stands for. Would the NRA accept contributions from Handgun Control?

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    Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
    1. Re:Exclude the MPAA and others like it by mamba-mamba · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Would the NRA accept contributions from Handgun Control?

      Why not, as long as there were no strings attached.

      Having said that, though, I think it would be a mistake for the geekpac to allow generous donors to directly appoint people, as described in the draft.

      It could definitely lead to a form of sabotage, where increasingly wimpy people are appointed by those who don't agree with the aims of the organization. Then if the apointees are kicked out, who knows, the donor might sue or something.

      Better to do it some other way.

      MM
      --

      --
      By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
  35. I disagree by sulli · · Score: 2

    Calling it "GeekPAC" would get tons of donations and rally the troops. Design a good logo, sell hats, use it to turn out people, the whole thing. Don't be ashamed of the geek name.

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    sulli
    RTFJ.
  36. haha by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 2

    I have a GEEKPAC- it's basically an IPAQ I installed nethack on.

    graspee

  37. Re:Score 0: Bad '70s Reference *Offtopic* by powerlinekid · · Score: 2

    Haha, funniest thing I've seen on slashdot in a long time. Thanks
    /powerlinekid

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    can't sleep slashdot will eat me