Slashdot Mirror
Lycoris - Linux for the Masses?
Dejected @Work writes "MSNBC.com, a definitely sketchy source of Linux information, just came out with an article "Linux for the Masses" about the ease of installing Lycoris(formerly Redmond Linux) on the desktop. The author even concluded you can 'fall in love with an ever-easier-to-use operating system.' It sounds like great news but am I missing something?" Several favorable reviews of this distro recently. It looks like all you have to do to get the reviewers on your side is to let them play solitaire during the install. :) Update: 04/13 14:53 GMT by T : Eric Krout also suggests the two-part review (part one and part two) over on monolinux.
I like the idea of linux for the masses, and I am all for the teaching of others to use linux- but that being said; there are so many people that don't even understand Windows 98 (let alone 2000) that I would be afraid of them using linux because they would be constantly coming to me. The people that can't find their 'run' command in windows- you know who I mean.
There are still some complexities in linux that most people will have a hard time with, such as installation and configuration of programs. Its getting better. RPM really helps out alot of people (I like it alot), but not everything uses RPM. I am having a terrible time getting Quake working on a Redhat 7.2 distro here right now (as well as problems with DVD decoding and Divx).
Linux for the masses is great, but lets not let the masses over-simplify it or take it to the lowest commom demononator. And let's not bloat it either (i know redhat is a hog, but it works pretty well)
Tibbon
The Lycoris home page and screen shot gallery.
I can just see it now: Clueless newbies installing "Lycoris" over and over again just to play more solitaire. And all the while they'll be saying, "I thought this Linux thing was supposed to be more efficient than Windows."
Think I'm kidding? Never underestimate the resourcefulness of the average idiot.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Just as well they changed the name - otherwise people would start thinking M$ had started bringing out Linux distros. :-D
Video Game cheats, hints a
Based on what I see in the review, it does indeed look like they've done a good job producing the "anti-geek" Linux distro. I never thought there was any reason not to use Linux as a desktop OS, but I have always throught that the best qualities of Linux (no central control and ownership) were also the reasons it would not succeed on the desktop: No marketing, no power to challenge the Microsoft OEM stranglehold.
The most interesting aspect to me was that they sell cheapish desktops and laptops preinstalled with their distro. There are other Linux preinstallers, but most of them seem to aim at the geek mainstream or the server business.
There is no reason Linux can't be a major desktop player technically or practically, but the marketing muscle has always been absent. Lycoris may be a great product, but I don't see where it changes anything on that marketing power front.
Still, I may just buy their cheap desktop for my technophobe mother-in-law who doesn't know Windows or Linux. I will bet she will have no problems using the machine and will never ever wish she had Windows, or even really know that she isn't using Windows.
Since Corel left there has been a void, that even Mandrake doesn't fill. Lycoris Desktop may just fill that void. Lycoris has a very easy install, easier than Mandrake. The best part is the well thought out desktop. And like Corel, instead of the 50 text editors you usually get,you a slimed down selection. There is only one mp3 player, one browser etc. IMHO they have eliminated the confusion most users suffer when they first use linux. They have set up an environment where you just sit down and get your work done. You want to type a letter, simple use Kword. There is none of this "do I use kword,abiword,openoffice,etc" confusion.
While many linux experts will see this as a negative, you have to recognize that KISS is what no other linux distro has mastered since Corel left. I for one welcome this change. Pick the "best" desktop apps, and package them on a easy to use desktop. In this case I think the concept of less choice has worked.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
What are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Lycoris is? It is XFree86 + KDE + some well-chosen open source apps. What "kernel mods" and "hooks" and "patches" and "API"s are you talking about, specifically? If you're referring to the kernel pre-emption patches, those have already been merged into the 2.5.x tree, and are widely seen as a good thing for Linux.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
The really terrible thing is the kernel mods that are necessary to necessary to put the hooks in for their point-n-drool API. I know Linus has the guts to tell them no, but unfortunately all the major distros have started including those patches.
That's what the distrbutions are there for. Linus produces what he thinks should be produced, and as the baseline kernel distribution it's inherently going to be somewhat conservative. Distributions then modify this to suit what their customers want, regardless of whether it's something that Linus would want in the kernel or not (see supermount, for instance - users want the convenience of being able to use removable media without messing about mounting and unmounting it. It's an ugly patch and Linus is never going to include it in his kernel. Distributions add the patch. Everyone's happy)
I guess that's the downside of Open Source. You can't make everyone learn the CLI like they should.
There should be no requirement to use the CLI. Many users just want to be able to turn on the computer, send an email and turn it off again. In what way does forcing them to use a CLI improve their life?
worth reading just to see an MSNBC reporter type those words!
I installed Lycoris on an extra machine I had without a problem... until it turned out it didn't have drivers for my sound card. (Not a rare one either- ECS K7S5A motherboard onboard sound) Now what? Needs a kernel recompile which I don't have time to learn how to do and which most users wouldn't be able to learn even if they tried. If this were windows, however, I'd be able to just download the driver and point-and-click install it. As far as I know, Linux doesn't have anything like that. Until it does, it will be out of reach of the massess.
You can't make everyone learn the CLI like they should. *sigh*
This sentiment is the exact reason why Linux isn't more widely used as a desktop operating system. Linux at present is a geek toy and a server OS. It will never be more until/unless Linux developers start re-evaluating the validity of the quoted statement above.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
Does the reviewer know who he works for?
First he gives an accurate description of his experience installing Linux and names several positive and truthful attributes. Then he says
"...watch the BBC on RealPlayer"
He's asking for it.
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
Desktops like KDE and to (and to a lesser extent, GNOME) copy Windows so shamelessly that they bring expectations, especially from novice users. The wild cut and paste in UNIX is enough to frustrate most novice users. The ripped off UI minus the "normal" (read: Windowsesque) behavior is enough to make most novices believe that Linux is nothing better than a second-rate windows. I've seen this first hand: my neighbor installs RedHat/KDE and it looks like Windows, and what does he do when the first misbehaving X app takes over half his screen (without revealing the "close" widget)? He realizes that he's in over his head, and goes back to Windows.
It's a terrible idea to out-Windows windows. If they don't carve out their own UI, Linux will always be playing catch-up on the desktop.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
I did a bit of searching, apparently it's named after some kind of plant, hence the "Flower Power" thing on their site. http://dmoz.org/Science/Biology/Flora_and_Fauna/Pl antae/Magnoliophyta/Liliopsida/Amaryllidaceae/Lyco ris/
My Blog: http://nic.dreamhost.com/
Typical linux elitism
"You have to learn the commandline and thousands of commands"
Desktop User "I just want to get the web, play some games and burn some CDS"
"But the commandline gives you power to write scripts and manipulate programs in a more concise way!"
Desktop User "But I'm not a programmer, I just want to get on the web and have fun!!!!"
"Its more fun to play with commands and look like an elite linux haxor!!"
Desktop User "I just want a Desktop thats easy to use, linux sucks I'm going to try OSX"
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Lindows has alot of money, Michael Robertson is a billionare, and he has support from others, Lindows isnt going anywhere,
Its $99? $99 will be for access to warehouse and what not, remember Lindows is GPL which means they MUST release the code, just let your friend burn you a CD, You wont be able to log into the warehouse without your friends password but you'll have Lindows.
Who in their right mind (talking consumer, not geek here) would throw out a perfectly good copy and replace it with a pay Linux? No one. Linux will always appeal exclusively to geeks, no matter if anyone on
Word of mouth, the fact that while Lindows isnt free, by using it you get access to thousands of free programs which costs money to use under Windows,
Also add the fact that your windows programs will work in Lindows.
Lindows is a good OS with a good plan and if they market it correctly they can be as successful as redhat, right now it depends on how they market it.
Lindows is set to make their money on services like warehouse and click n run, I dont think they can stop people from distributing Lindows for cheaper or getting ISOs from friends.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Can this be an attempt to prove that linux is effective competition to windows to placate the judge ? seems weird that it's on an MS affiliated site.
What Lycoris does that none of the other Linux distros really do is limit your options (maybe some do but why nitpick). Contrary to the belief of Linux users in basements around the globe, this is not a bad thing. Lycoris does right where others have done wrong. Instead of giving the option of a billion different file managers and command line ftp clients they simplified the software package down to something manageable. One serious hurdle in a Linux installation is knowing what programs you want and which you don't want.
RedHat, SuSE, and Debian cater to the everything comes in a single box paradigm. This is great for the people who've used Linux before and have a feel for certain apps and thus choose to install them. Others have a feel for different apps and thus install those, this continues until there's a dozen dozen various installations of the same distribution. For people new to Linux this is wholly confusing, I've been using Linux for years and I still get confused when I've got six CDs full of stuff. I think Lycoris fits into a very nice niche of Linux users, ones who want to just turn something on and get work done. Like the tag line it seems like it could be very nice for general consumers as they'd be hard pressed to tell you what operating system was on their computer anyhow.
Hopefully the companies building beige box PCs bundling Linux will take note of Lycoris and give it a bit of a bigger install base and popularize it. RedHat is a good company but it seems like they're definitely going in a more corporate user direction which is of course fine, more power to them.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
..but it had to be said.
Why does "easy to use" seem to translate, almost precisely "looks exactly like windows"?
OS X, while not flawless, is living proof that the evolution of computer interaction is not over, can people PLEASE stop acting like the M$ desktop is the only way to make an interface?
... Principal Skinner?!?!
Based on the web site I've gotta say: I love it, but I'll never run it.
:)
:)
Seems they've done a great job replicating the Windows XP look-and-feel in Linux which should reduce the learning curve for new users. I was a "techie" in the Microsoft world and heaven knows Linux was a complete change for me. I couldn't figure out how to move a directory for weeks after switching!
However, for those who have donw some climbing on the learning curve it's probably a bad idea to run this distro. After all, why make Linux identical to Windows? I applaud their effort but for the geeks among us it's probably a step backwards. Good news is, I doubt we're their primary target market.
I bought my wife an IBM NetVista and Redmond Linux was the ONLY distro that detected the video card w/ the Flat screen monitor. (Mandrake 8.1 only had it in 800x600 with tweaking)
It's a VERY easy distro to use. It's NOT for power users. You are very limited in what you can do. They make it very hard to fuck up your system. It has a customized version of KDE (which is VERY good in my opinion). It's near impossible to add Gnome to the desktop. It uses Caldera RPM's so you can just grab them off of Caldera's site.The install was so easy, she did it herself. (She is not tech savvy). She did it while I was in the shower. I had to redo it so I could see for myself. I think it's an excellent distro for mom & dad. However, power Linux users will get frustrated by it's lack of choices. There are no servers installed (except sshd). Not even an ftp server, or Apache. (which is by design...Mom isn't supposed to be running a webserver on the machine she does her taxes on, ya know?) All in All, I give it 9 out of 10 for newbies, 4 out of 10 for veterans.
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
Next time search for a good review that's thorough rather than linking to some half-baked MSNBC article.
n ame=News&file=article&sid=670&mode=thread&order=0& thold=0 n ame=News&file=article&sid=667&mode=thread&order=0& thold=0 4 -12-014-26-RV-DT 4 -12-005-26-NW-DT l e=article&sid=1856 l e=article&sid=1848 / 12/1740252 / 11/1459213
The best review out there isn't exactly a top-secret either, as is apparent below.
1] http://www.tuxreports.com/modules.php?op=modload&
2] http://www.tuxreports.com/modules.php?op=modload&
3] http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-0
4] http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-0
5] http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=News&fi
6] http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=News&fi
7] http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04
8] http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04
9] http://www.distrowatch.com/index.php
Thanks.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
hell add IM program like gaim or kopete in there and they may not even remember to exit the install
Now that isnt a bad idea. If you had some corporate backing, or some dedicated volunteers, you could have an install-im with a live person at the other end. That way, if you needed any help you could chat with a helpful install buddy. Tell me that wouldnt impress reviewers.
Of course, most of my early problems were getting a damn PPP connection up...
WTF kind of picture is that?
Maybe the NSA needs to do this when they cut 'n' paste a 6-inch resolution satellite image of an entire axis-of-evil country into a powerpoint slide for W. (They are reported to have a budget that enables them to actually buy Adobe software.)
You gotta like this. An article in a mainstream e-rag gushing about how easy it is to install Linux.
And it's got everything an average user could want in terms of software, including browser, email, IM, photo editor, video and mp3 players, games, even an office suite -- something that MS hasn't even got around to incorporating into the OS! It even includes a KNapster file sharing client. Bet you don't get anything like that with XP. It will even delete your old copy of Windows for you. (How convenient.)
On top of that all, you can download it for free, or pay less than $50 for a CD and support. Or you can buy a machine with it pre-installed for less than $500.
This should perk up the interest of Joe Average computer user.
Ironically, this article is on a website co-owned by MS.
Seriously though, I have been noticing lately that there has been a general growing awareness of Linux among the "masses". Case in point: a friend of mine just got her first home computer last week. It has WindowsXP, but she isn't particularly pleased with it. She told me she would have liked to have gotten a Linux computer but she needed Windows in order to be compatible with software she used at work.
Trickster Coyote
Illusions are real. Reality is an illusion.
Ideology is for ideots.
Lycoris seems to be just what the doctor ordered: a chance to experience the power of Linux without having to turn into a system administrator just for the privilege. Let's face it folks: 98% of the computer-using population could care less what runs under the bonnet. They don't want to have to twiddle obscure radio-button options, nor choose amongst 50 different window managers and 200 file managers. They simply want to get work done. Whilst we geeks may bemoan the lack of options and curse Lycoris because we can't eke 2% greater speed out of it, most people simply DON'T CARE about the technical minutiae. They'd be glad to be relieved of Microsoft's increasingly more onerous licencing restrictions and higher prices. And as always, if you don't like the Lycoris distro, don't run it! Run SuSE, or Debian, or Mandrake, or ....
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
The weakness with Linux today isn't ease of install - hell, Redhat has been trivial to install for at least a couple of versions now, even on the weirdest hardware Joe "Dude, You're Gettin' a Dell" Sixpack is likely to have.
Installation is ALREADY pretty brain dead, even to the most clueless newbie. At most, they're looking at a 5 minute call to their vendor / friend / LUG / 7-year old neighbor.
The trouble comes when they want to run the stupid elf bowling program some cow orker sends to them. Or when they want to free up some drive space. Or when they want to install a game. Or install ANY new software via four to six clicks of a mouse button.
Put the creative energy in the right direction, and Linux WILL win. This isn't it. This is the road more travelled.
-l
This is NOT new. Lycoris's installer is RLIZARD, which means Redmond Linux Wizard. LIZARD was created by Caldera in 1997 I think. I got their distro at the Linux trade show in NYC. Blew AWAY anythng Redhat could have done. The installer is nothing new. It's a carbon copy of caldera. DOwn to the icons! Where Lycoris shines is the desktop! Screw their installer!
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
For the fact that instead of calling me up every day, and me having to drive 100 miles out there once a month and have to waste an hour of my time defragging or installing Bonzi Buddy for her, I can now just ssh in and do everything there. I even put icons on her desktop like "Click ME for MAIL!!!", "Click ME for Word!". :) She's actually spreading the word about how she has no problems. She has SOME, but I ssh in twice a week and detele all the NEW FILE.txt and NEW FOLDER 79 in her home directory :)
Now she thinks she's a guru
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
Wouldn't take all that much, when you're dealing with high quality stuff. At 1200 DPI (which most decent scanners and printers these days can handle), it would only take 11 x 11 inches of true colour would give you just under 700MB of uncompressed image data.
Hell, my scanner, which is like 6 years old, can do 4800 DPI (interpolated). At 4800 DPI, it would only take a 2.8 inch square scan to take up 700MB. Mind you, that's pretty insane resolution.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson