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First, WinModems. Now, WinWiFi.

zulux writes "Microsoft is actively encouraging WiFi (802.11b) hardware manufacturers to strip their devices of costly electronics, and use Microsoft software/drivers to make up the slack. And you thought WinModems were bad!"

16 of 386 comments (clear)

  1. Feature bloat ahead by MxTxL · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Software is just too intensive to use for low level operations. It's SOOO much faster to have it in the hardware. Sure, software can offer a lot more flexibility, and it might keep some costs down, but that hardly makes up for the performance loss.

    Plus, with the flexibility comes the idea that it's ok to write in more and more features... software bloat is the result.

    1. Re:Feature bloat ahead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I think Apple hit the best WiFi combo, offering both hardware based abd software based base stations.

  2. Aren't they a little late to the party? by Cutriss · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First, WiFi devices have been out for a few years now. Yeah, hardware modems had been too, but the markets are moving faster now than they had been 10/15 years ago. Furthermore, there's already a new big player in the WiFi market that won't stand and let Microsoft have exclusivity on WiFi drivers...Apple.

    --
    "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
    1. Re:Aren't they a little late to the party? by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Since when has Microsoft being late to a party ever been reason enough for them not to crash it anyway?

      Microsoft's business model, in case you haven't been reading for the past few years, is to have not only their finger in every single pie, but to cut off all the other fingers already there. This is they how and why of the windows monopoly.

      Pray they don't get into bio-engineering.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  3. Software WEP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder how much of an overhead 128bit WEP will put onto the WiFi "software". It already slows down some hardware cards, so using the host CPU really doesn't seem to be a good idea.....although when has MSFT ever been worried about my privacy?

  4. end of wireless for linux? by esoteric0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    remember what a pain winmodems are/were for linux? almost impossible to get them working, at least in the old days. if m$ is successful in getting wireless companies to use software instead of hardware, could that be the end of wireless for linux?

  5. Re:Does linux have to worry about this? by The+Mayor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Eh? I know a lot of people with wi-fi setups. Not one of them is a non-tech person. Wi-fi is still so new that only the techies get into it. And believe me, they realize the limitations of the technology. And if you're accessing the Internet over a DSL or cable modem, that 5 meg wireless link is plenty good enough.

    --
    --Be human.
  6. hardware vs software as a tactic by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Software is just too intensive to use for low level operations. It's SOOO much faster to have it in the hardware.

    MS is depending on Moore's law to save them again. And this seems to be a long term strategy - to convert hardware to software, which ties things into the windows OS again.

    Another secret of bloatware is reveiled.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  7. This isn't necessarily evil... by Sivar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One way to reduce hardware cost is to put hardware functions in software.
    You don't see anyone calling "monopoly" about software RAID cards, and those that do pay far more (andget only marginally better performance) from hardware RAID.
    Winmodems may be a PITA for us, but you can get then for $5, vs. $70ish for a hardware modem (the 3Com Performance Pro comes to mind)
    I can see that Microsoft may look at this as another opportunity to extend the duration of their doomed monopoly, but honestly I don't believe that they are morally obligated to keep hardware prices up by NOT integrating their functions into software. They are, after all, a software company.

    Does it not make sense to introduce new stolen ideas to make more use of software?
    Besides, these are Microsoft drivers. They'll probably be slow enough to help the ailing hardware industry sell a few more chips. That's aid that they could use now.
    Yes, I know it isn't kisher to say that not *everything* Microsoft does is evil. Mod me down if you like.

    --
    Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
  8. Impressive irony, even for Redmond by John+Miles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It wasn't that many years ago that Microsoft, along with just about everyone else in the PC business with an ounce of common sense, launched a jihad against Intel's NSP (Native Signal Processing) initiative.

    NSP was the logical response to Intel's realization that CPU cycles in the Pentium era were becoming less and less valuable to the end user. They considered it a task of strategic importance to soak up extra cycles wherever they could be found... never mind that game developers still needed every cycle they could find at the time. Had NSP succeeded, it would have had a wide array of effects on the PC hardware and software businesses, almost all of them too ugly to contemplate. The nascent market for high-performance 3D and environmental audio hardware would likely have been crushed under the treads of Intel's marketing machine, and WinModems would have taken over the scene years earlier than they did. The development of online gaming technology would have been pushed back indefinitely, pending the ubiquitous adoption of broadband (which, obviously, has yet to happen).

    Of course, MS's primary interest in killing NSP was to keep Windows from having to run as just another NSP client. Owning the boot process from BIOS to bluescreen was as important to them in 1994 as it is now. But now, it appears that they've taken leave of their technical senses as well as their ethics. If this is anything like Intel's earlier push to run modem data pumps on the CPU -- and to be fair to MS, the article is by no means clear on this point -- then 802.11 fans, and consumers in general, should fight it where they find it.

    --
    Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
  9. Using CPU cycles can only go so far by MtViewGuy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it's a terrible idea!

    Despite the speed of today's CPU's, having to use CPU cycles to do WiFi networking is not a great idea, especially when you also have to take into account for CPU cycles being used for everything else in the system.

    I mean, consider the situation of playing DVD discs on a computer. Sure, you can do it completely in software if the CPU is fast enough, but the CPU cycles it requires to do this even on a very fast CPU can drag a system down pretty quickly. Now you know why ATI has Hardware Motion Compensation (HWMC) and Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform (IDCT) decoding assistance on their graphics chipsets starting with the Rage 128 series, and nVidia has pretty much done the same with the current GeForce4 MX/Ti chipset series.

  10. Hacking possibilities by Anm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Am I not the only thinking about the bountiful hacking possibilities of a DSP controlled radio transciever card? Of course that assumes the card APIs are reverse enginnered (or pigs fly and the specs are published).

    Anm

  11. Re:Bias, bias, bias by LadyLucky · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Heh, i had a PcTel winmodem, and an S3 Virge video card. I had been having intermitten connection problems, and finally traced it to the combination of those two. The video card saturated the PCI bus, leaving not enough bandwidth of the damned modem, which would then promptly hangup.

    Ever since that fiasco, i started actually looking at what i was buying, though it seems to be impossible to get a non win PCI modem these days.

    Just as well we have the good ole external DSL modem now :-)

    --
    dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
  12. No, I didn't think winmodems were necessarily bad by MadFarmAnimalz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Where I live, buying a new lower-end pc sets you back the equivalent of 2 months average salary. A hardware modem costs on average 5 to 6 times as much as a winmodem.

    Consequentially, it's winmodems that have people round here online in troves. I currently have both kinds of modems, having been forced out of linux's charm to buy a hardware modem, but most people are not like that; with most people, getting online and being a netizen is a priority overriding hardware design ethics and operating system chauvinism.

    If wifi ever takes hold in this country, it will only be if they're cheap; that can only be helped if there's a software layer somewhere in there saving you some moolah.

    Soaking up CPU cycles? C'mon. Even in a power-user thick forum such as this one, how many people utilise their cycles beyond 10 or 20% over time? Distributed.net and SETI@home don't count, mind you.

    Seems to me the only question here is whether we will go through the same heartache we did with winmodems, what with closed chipset specs and chipset makers digging their heels in not to release such information. This seems to me to mainly be an issue of profit margins: what makes more money, hardware solutions or their corresponding software emulations?

    Generally, a more expensive product is more likely to carry a larger profit margin for many reasons. The higher complexity of the product acts as a kind of barrier to entry into the market segment freeing up the supplier to play a bit with the price, and there are always economies of scale, even at this level.

    In other words, the per-unit profit is likely to be higher for hardware solutions. Now the question has become one of pure demand and supply; are the incremental profits from a hardware solution greater than the incremental volume generated from a software solution?

    --
    Blearf. Blearf, I say.
  13. Great opportunity by mc6809e · · Score: 2, Interesting


    This is actually a good thing for those wanting to experiment. Think about being able to alter the software driving these things. What might be done? Might alternate coding schemes be used? How about your own encryption method?

  14. Reverse engineering motivation by ka9dgx · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Nobody really cares about reverse engineering a soft modem, because when you're done... you've got a modem, and possibly a nice answering machine core, but nothing more. It doesn't help that under linux you have to know how to hack the kernel to do anything with hardware.

    If you do the work to reverse engineer a software driven WiFi system, you can do ANYTHING with the card, you can boost the power, provide a signal for switching on an external POWER AMPLIFIER at the appropriate times, change the modulation scheme to get stealth, do all sorts of cool tricks that would make the FBI, CIA, and NSA get a cold sweat worrying about, if put into the hands of a thinking citizenry.

    With a software controled WiFi, you could potentially make an undetectable ethernet, that they couldn't tap, and couldn't block, and was really optimized for throughput.

    This could be very cool for us, and very bad for those that wish to control us.

    --Mike--