Slashdot Mirror
Apple Drops Mac OS 9
Eugenia Loli writes "MacCentral has the up-to-the-minute updates on the Apple WorldWide Developer Conference. The first big news is that Apple drops Mac OS 9. 'It's time to drop OS 9,' Steve Jobs said. 'We can do things in X that we just can't do in 9... a hundred percent of what we're doing is X only. [...] Mac OS 9 isn't dead for our customers, but it is for developers. Today we say goodbye to Mac OS 9 for all future development,' said Jobs." We all expected this to happen sooner or later, more sooner than later. There's been no new Apple development for Mac OS 9 in some time; only maintenance updates. But I won't stop Mac OS 9 development. You can't stop me! Muahahahaha! Update: 05/06 18:31 GMT by P : More news from WWDC continues to roll in.
Eugenia Loli writes "Probably the really big news is with Jaguar, the codename for Mac OS X 10.2. There is handwriting recognition technology that will be recognized by any application that uses text. Apple also introduced Quartz Extreme, which takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards, and combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. 'Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL.' It requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM. It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of 'the other guys.'"
Update: 05/06 18:46 GMT by P : An anonymous user writes: "Apple is releasing Mac OS X Rackmount Servers. Also releasing AIM-compatible messaging called iChat; you can create buddy lists of anyone on the local network, and you can use your mac.com username to log in to it."
Guess you didn't read yet:
Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM.
There *IS* a caveat:
It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. AGP 2x and 32MB video RAM are required for this new technology. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of "the other guys."
---
Information wants...you to shut your pie hole.
I've programmed in classic MacOS for 17 years, and I've actually contributed to MacOS 9. However, I upgraded my home Mac when 10.1 came out and never looked back.
MacOS 9 had a great existence, but MacOS X is superior in every way.
The IETF zeroconf working group, led by Apple's Stuart Cheshire, has been working on this for a while.
Actually... both the G3 All-in-one and original G3 were both fully supported in OS X by Apple, while the 7500-9600 series where able to use X thanks to XPostFacto
If you install the dev tools, the
- /Developer/Applications/Quartz\ Debug
application can be used to disable double-buffering. You'll see how different the system feels when using the "Autoflush drawing" switch.Now, in terms of actual speec, getting a task done un X means not stopping other tasks, unlike in Classic. One striking example is those Photoshop bake-off Apple likes to do against Intel.
This really doesn't prove anything, because while Mac OS 9 -based Photoshop creams Intel-based Photoshop in throughput, the Windows version actually still lets you run stuff in the background, where as Mac OS 9 would technically suck the entire processor to itself, making background processes grind to a halt.
It'll be interesting how Photoshop back-offs will do, now that Adobe finally released it.
Apart from the UI perceived sluggishness, there are area where Mac OS X is clearly faster. We've noticed this from out (heavily) network-based application. Download speeds are much more efficient using BSD sockets than OpenTransport. On the plus side, the machine is not rendered useless when downloading data.
Wow. Ping the broadcast address :)
--"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
however this is going to force some people to either buy new hardware or just never upgrade... If I'm worng... please set me straight.
;-)
You're worng.
Think of OpenGL: if your graphics card can do OpenGL stuff, then the libgl on your computer will hand off the OpenGL processing straight to the graphics hardware. If it can't, your libgl will do the OpenGL stuff in software.
(At least, that's how it's supposed to work. Seems like in PC-land it doesn't much of the time.)
If your Mac has support for Quartz Extreme, it'll use it. If it doesn't, it'll continue to use software-based Quartz rendering.
Steve never said you had to have hardware accelerated graphics to run Jaguar, or anything that would imply that.
It simply means that the iBook won't support Quartz Extreme edition. The iBook's GPU does allow hardware 2D acceleration, and it is turned on by default when you install OS X. If you use the OpenGL probing tool in the developer's tool, you'll see that the GPU acceleration is turned on.
That being said, I recently sold my iBook and get the new DVI PowerBook, and I can't believe the performance difference, it's like night and day.
-B
Because in real life, it turned out to suck. AGP is now mainly used to quickly transfer stuff to on-card memory. Hell, most 'power' cards these days are shipping with 64 or 128 megs. And I remember being all chuffed up that my Mach64 card had a whopping 2 megs of VRAM...
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Having just gone through this recently, I may know some thing that might help. If you install the drivers for your printer on OS X, then reboot, and then try and add a printer the normal way, the printer should show up on the list. If you're using a PS-type printer, you may have to wait for the USB printer sharing in 10.2, or ask HP to get crackin' and make a JetDirect package for X.
Another thing that I discovered recently... many printers that don't work right away in OS X suddenly start working fine when you install Sharity (SMB file sharing app... check versiontracker). oddest thing.
However, from what I understand, most of the printer issues OS X brought will be solved either in 10.1.5 or in 10.2. It's just a matter of being patient (ha!)
The world's only surviving livewriter.
It's fully OSX native and has two more instruments over and above Reason 1; a new graintable synth and an advanced sampler. The OSX drivers for my Roland UM1 midi interface are also in beta now and can be downloaded here.
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
Spymac is NOT a good source for Mac news
I agree and I didn't say there were a good source of news. The rumors they post are highly unreliable.
But they did have good minute-by-minute coverage of the keynote, which is what I posted about.
Sailing over the event horizon
I don't know if a Radeon would be sufficient, or if you'd have to get a GeForce. Considering the late-model G4 Titaniums have either the Radeon M6 or the Radeon 7500 Mobility in 'em, I'd guess a Radeon will suffice.
Is your display VGA or ADC? The latter will be decidedly more expensive to replace your video card on - you'd have to get the DVIator or a similar device, since third-party Mac video boards don't have ADC ports. However, the actual video-card replacement is pretty easy:
- Open case. (i.e., pull tab on side, swing side panel down.)
- Remove retainer screw from video board.
- Remove old video board from slot.
- Insert new video board into slot.
- Put retainer screw back in its former place.
- Close case.
- Plug everything in and turn system on.
It's really not that hard. Video RAM is on the video board, and may not be upgradeable at all. The first Rage128 RE PCI boards had header connectors for RAM daughtercards, but the newer boards quite possibly won't.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
.Since... OS X is not supported on any of the beige Macs,
Umm... I believe my biege G3 is still officially supported. Unfortunately it uses ADB ports rather than USB so my Wacom tablet doesn't work on X, but everything else seems to work fine.
APIPA is yet another acronym for link-local IPv4 addressing.
What Apple is calling "Rendezvous" begins with link-local IPv4 addressing and adds "multicast DNS" (which Microsoft wants to call "link-local multicast name resolution," i.e. LLMNR... sigh).
Here's what Rendezvous *actually* is: it's the last little bit of what Appletalk had going for it, finally "ported over" to work on the Internet protocol. Not only is Mac OS 9 in the terminal patient's ward-- so is the Appletalk network protocol. Happy happy day.
--
jhw
This from Apple's press release:
iChat, Apple's new AIM-compatible instant messaging software that is built into Mac OS X and integrated with the new Mail and Address Book applications;
QuickTime® 6, the first complete solution for industry standard MPEG-4 video and AAC audio streaming;
Rendezvous, Apple's proposed new industry standard for automatic discovery of computers, devices, and services on IP networks (i.e., Ethernet, AirPort®);
Address Book, Apple's new system-wide database for managing contact information;
Finder(TM), now enhanced with spring-loaded folders and new instant searching;
Sherlock® 3, Apple's all-new Internet search and services tool;
Quartz(TM) Extreme, the hardware accelerated Quartz graphics and compositing engine;
UNIX Tools, the latest UNIX advancements including FreeBSD 4.4 updates, the new GCC 3 compiler, IPv6 and IPSec; and Windows Support, for increased compatibility with Windows networks with SMB browsing and sharing as well as built-in PPTP VPN security.
-- Your local friendly mad scientist-in-training
Maybe you should look into the Linux kernel for an example of what he's talking about. Rather than have several hardware or OS-dependent if-then statements inside of a single function, you break the function into several copies -- one version for each OS. Then, set a function pointer to the appropriate version for the OS you are running on at program initialization. If you are running under OS 9, point all your function pointers to the functions that use OpenTransport. If you are running under OS X, point all your function pointers to the functions that use sockets.
Since the OS isn't going to change under your program any more than the hardware changes underneath the Linux kernel, there's no reason to be constantly testing the platform. This changes the overhead of all the if-then statements to a single if-then statement, some function pointer initializations at startup, and a jump to a function pointer instead of a fixed constant each time you call the function. If the if-then statements are that much of a problem, you'll trade some minimal code bloat (in the form of the now repeated OS-independent parts of those functions) for much improved execution speed and significantly easier to read code (if done correctly).
A benefit is that it makes it relatively easy to add and drop OS support without having to go through code with a fine-tooth comb. Just delete or add the relevant functions and add/drop that OS from the test at start-up. The only downsides are tracking similar changes between versions and the tendency for code to severely mutate into completely diverse codebases if you don't have good design discipline.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I have a 600Mhz iBook running OS X 10.1.4. I also have a 600Mhz P3 running Windows 2000. Both PCs have 384MB RAM. They both feel about as responsive. Both hiccup every rarely on window drags and menu selections (the Mac more often with window drags, and the Win2000 box more often with menu selections) The only place the Mac is slower than the Win2000 box is in Web browsing, and it isn't that much slower (I use OmniWeb 4.1b5 on the Mac and IE6 on the Win2000 box -- IE is probably faster because it is tied so closely to the OS).
mbbac
spring loaded folders are in 10.2
as far as pop up windows, give the folder you want to pop-up a recognizable icon, and drag it to the dock. the only functional difference is that the folder doesn't close if you run an app in it. This can be fixed by holding the option key when launching or if you have a pointing device with multiple buttons, by binding a button to option-click in the finder. Functionally, the dock *will* accomplish everything pop-up windows did, i just think people dont like it as much because it just doesnt look the same.
Apple are still SUPPORTING Mac OS 9 ... but WWDC is a DEVELOPER conference. People are there right now to learn about Apple technologies that they will be using in their development work over the next year. What Steve Jobs is saying is that you won't find sessions about making Classic applications at this year's WWDC ... instead you will learn about Carbon, Cocoa, Java2, and BSD UNIX applications and other key Mac OS X technologies, because by the time your products ship, it will be a year from now and Classic will be even more irrelevant.
Mac OS 9 has been the "old" OS for more than a year now. If you think it SHOULD be retired one year from today, then you would agree with Steve Jobs that DEVELOPERS shouldn't be learning new ways to develop for Mac OS 9 right now so they can ship new products for Mac OS 9 a year from now.
In other words, it makes sense that Mac OS 9 would be retired first by developers, then a short while later by users. I imagine that Jaguar will have a more self-contained, non-bootable Classic environment that can still run many old apps but stays out of the way more. It may also be a truly optional install (not just a thing where you can trash it and get by without it). At that point, it will make sense for most users to consider dropping their Classic apps, just as developers are starting to stop improving their Classic apps right now.
I've been disappointed with the speed of my iBook, and at first this 32mb video memory required thing kinda pissed me off, but really, I can't see how hardware quartz would solve my problem. Moving my pointer across the Dock results in icons scalling up and down fairly smoothly. The real problem on mine is stuff like switching between applications, waiting for the web browser to load the page...it's hard for me to say, but it does really feel like slow video is the problem.
Except when loading up 10,000 Mozilla/OmniWeb/IE windows, OSX works very fast for me. I don't think there will be that much difference with Jaguar if most of the emphasis is on increasing graphics speed.
When I load up loads of windows, for some reason the menus get sluggish. I think this may be about the memory the web browsers are using as much as anything else, but it's odd considering that I have 1.5gb RAM.
The new 1ghz system is only about 30% faster than the dual 450. So I wouldn't worry about getting rid of the dual 450 just yet.
Hope that helps.
D
As I recall the timing, OS 8 came out early on in Amelio's reign (early in some CEO's reign anyway)and was basically issued as an apology (and stopgap) that the Copland project had been axed as a dismal failure. As Copland was technologically sophisticated and also a now-legendary example of vaporware, Apple had to ship a major-looking OS upgrade or face a mutiny in their customer base. OS 8 delivered little more than the Platinum look in terms of user-level features, but it came out and the Mac looked Different (Platinum was a huge visual improvement over 7.6) and the mob was sated. For a little while. Then they did 8.1 in fairly short order to add features and the "Modern" Mac was born.
There were supposedly some low-level changes in 8.0, but I can't for the life of me remember what they were. There was also an 8.01 bugfix for the few broken items in 8.0.
After that, they evolved 8.1 into 9.22. Along the way they added features, like Multiple Users and Location Manager, and improved the system under the hood. Meanwhile, the quest for OS 10 (now X) began with an evaluation of Be and NeXT as replacements for the ill-starred Copland and a Whole New MacOS...
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
So the real question is: can you pluck tracks out of the iTunes db, or do you re-rip stuff and serve it using (what, exactly)? Can you use iTunes as a client for this in any way?
Hmm. Evidently dingos ate my post.
My response went basically something like this: I'm using QuickTime Streaming Server, which is available for download from Apple's site. It's free, and it runs just fine under OS X, although Apple will only give you tech support if you're running it under OS X Server. (Support is one of those things your server license pays for.)
QTSS is also open source, via APSL, and it's available in binary form for Sun and FreeBSD and a few other things. Linux, maybe? I forget.
The QTSS MP3 streamer requires practically no CPU once it gets going-- although starting it up for the first time and having it go through 2500+ MP3s took about half a minute of serious crunching. It caches the info, though, so that's no problem. I just tell it to randomly walk through my entire MP3 collection, and I can tune in to it from any computer on the LAN, using iTunes or any similar HTTP-savvy streaming client. Easy-peasy.
According to Apple's Mac OS X new version page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/), Quartz Extreme's supported video cards are:
nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.
RECOMMENDED, NOT REQUIRED
Check the info before you start the next flame war.
You're right, everone and their dog has had 2D hardware acceleration for >20 years.
Jobs is talking about using OpenGL to render the desktop. The next windows is supposed to be doing this (though with DirectX), so in that sense, OS X is about 2 years ahead.
AFAIK none of the X GUI toolkits have a working OGL backend yet.