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Jaguar Reviewed

Posted by pudge on from the my-mac-only-has-16mb-ddr-anyway dept.

Anonymous Coward writes "A review with a lot of screenshots of the latest beta seed (6C37) has been posted. The latest advancements look pretty promising. I, like everyone else, am itching for a release." I don't know if it is more pretty, or more promising, but it does look cool. Dock improvements, iChat, search the disk from Finder windows, QuickTime 6, Digital Hub section of System Preferences, Firewall preferences, major Speech improvements ...

64 comments

  1. Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much $$ is this gonna set me back?

    1. Re:Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by johnpaul191 · · Score: 1

      there has been no info about this yet......
      though this was a developer conference, so things like that are not the issue at hand (if they even know yet). i don't see how it can be a download if it's as big as it seems it will be. hopefully it will be like the 10.1 upgrade, but i don't know since Apple seemed really pissed about the hack to the 10.1 updater cd to make it a full install cd.

    2. Re:Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by foobar104 · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be surprised if 10.2 was handled just like 10.1: buy the whole OS including the developer tools on CD and stuff for over $100, or buy just the upgrade on CD for $30 or so.

      Or, if you prefer, go to an Apple retail store, where they were quietly and without any announcement handing them out to everybody for free. Which was pretty damn cool, if you ask me.

    3. Re:Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by RevAaron · · Score: 2

      They were giving out 10.2 quietly for free, or are you talking about 10.1? They announced that 10.1 would be available in the retail stores, but if you're talking about 10.2, I find that hard to imagine, as I've not heard about anyone else picking one up there!

      --

      Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
    4. Re:Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by foobar104 · · Score: 2

      What? I thought my post was clear: you could get 10.1 in one of three ways, including getting it for free at an Apple Store. I imagine 10.2 will be available through the same channels.

    5. Re:Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by Ster · · Score: 1
      ... but i don't know since Apple seemed really pissed about the hack to the 10.1 updater cd to make it a full install cd.

      That's funny, I seem to recall Steve saying something along the lines of "We trust our customers." I remember because it was in stark contrast to Windows XP activation issues that I'd read about.

      -Ster

    6. Re:Free as in upgrade or free is in not-free? by GORDOOM · · Score: 1

      This is just my opinion, but given the magnitude of the changes happening in the Jaguar release, I strongly suspect that it will not be a repeat of 10.1.

      My prediction is that Jaguar will be released, not as Mac OS X 10.2, but as Mac OS X 10.5. As such, it will be subject to a $100 upgrade charge.

      Of course, I wouldn't mind being wrong... :)

  2. it's very nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a friend of mine has a copy of the developer release (via his dad) and said friend loves it... iChat is cool, Finder does some REALLY cool things (if you have the horsepower) besides the spring-loaded folders, and all I can say is is that I want Jaguar SO bad now.

    1. Re:it's very nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm at WWDC right now, and have seen Jaguar run. The biggest feature is SPEED. Quartz has been updated to render into OpenGL in order to use the graphic card's accelleration. It is FAST. Even on the G3.

  3. please tell me... by joedames · · Score: 1

    Steve has finally put function over form...

    It'd be nice if this release runs fast. God knows it's pretty, but I'm ready for fast!

    1. Re:please tell me... by Strog · · Score: 3, Informative
      Quartz Extreme
      Jaguar dramatically improves the performance of Mac OS X with Quartz Extreme hardware-based graphics acceleration. Quartz Extreme takes advantage of the OpenGL 3D graphics engine to make the entire desktop a fully accelerated OpenGL scene. A supported* video card can then render the drawing of the desktop, just like it would a 3D game. The main CPU chip(s) can then focus on application-specific needs, making the whole system faster and more responsive.

      That means your shadows will drop quickly, your genies will appear slicker and your transparencies will layer faster -- and Mac OS X can do more processing in the background while you move the foreground

      *nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.

  4. Helfe by mjpaci · · Score: 1

    Anyone care to post the text as the site seems /.'d.

  5. Were in trouble... by zulux · · Score: 4, Funny

    If Apple continues to name their releases after failed video game consoles, then by the time they get to 3DO, we're screwed.

    --

    Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    1. Re:Were in trouble... by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 5, Funny

      zulux wrote:

      > If Apple continues to name their releases after failed video game
      > consoles,

      The next version of Windows is codenamed "Longhorn". It is a kind of cow.

      The jaguar is the biggest feline predator in the Americas. It kills by biting thru the skull of its prey (unless the prey is small enough that a smack in the face from one of its paws can kill it). It will eat just about anything, large or small (including cows). It is a very beautiful, very powerful animal that can make its home in nearly any terrain. It loves water.

      Apple is basically saying here: "Microsoft, my OS can crush your OS' skull and eat it for lunch. It can certainly chomp off large chunks of your monopoly."

      Does anyone have any doubts left as to what Apple's new relationship with Microsoft will be for the next five years? ;)

      Good.

      "Mothra's attack is working."
      -- Shouta, "Mothra 3: King Ghidora Attacks"

    2. Re:Were in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MacOS 11
      MacOS 11 3D
      MacOS 11 3D 2
      MacOS 11 Steve's Heros
      MacOS 11 Aqua Rogue
      MacOS 11 Dock Assult
      MacOS 11 Dock Assult 2
      MacOS 11 RTS

      Am I forgetting any?

    3. Re:Were in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And jaguars are almost extinct, whereas cows are all over the fucking place, with meat cheaply available, consuming large amounts of our oil, antibiotics, and corn outputs. Some fucking predator.

  6. Mirror of 10.2 Screenshot by debugdave · · Score: 5, Informative

    Is Avaliable at http://www.apple.com/macosx/

    1. Re:Mirror of 10.2 Screenshot by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 3, Funny
      Heh heh, slashdoted by the Apple section of Slashdot!

      okay, maybe it wasn't just us...

  7. NDA? we don't need no steenkin' NDA. by ubiquitin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apparently not. Even though Apple made a big deal about ushering the press out after the WWDC keynote, they never signed NDA's. Developers, on the other hand, did. It is part of being an ADC member, if I remember correctly. So I can neither confirm nor deny that the screenshots at the macthis.org site look just exactly like Jaguar. With all those screenshots, that site is going down in a heartbeat... reload...... already flatlined. :)

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
    1. Re:NDA? we don't need no steenkin' NDA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here.

      I, too, can neither * C O N F I R M * nor deny that the screenshots at the macthis.org site look just exactly like Jaguar. I just can't.

      I guess everyone's outta luck until fall.

      Z00BER

  8. Post it to Usenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone hurry up and post it to Usenet already.

  9. All I need is a Radeon Card... by i_am_pi · · Score: 1, Funny

    Then i'd buy Jaguar immediately for the Quartz Extreme!

    It is mega-arousing/droolworthy.

    Pi

  10. Quartz Extreme mobile support by HaiLHaiL · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Supported hardware for Quartz extreme:
    "nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance"

    Would the ATI Mobility Radeon (found in PowerBook G4) be included in this? is it AGP?

    --


    reech bee-yond ur clip-0n
    1. Re:Quartz Extreme mobile support by CottonEyedJoe · · Score: 3, Informative

      The TiBook has AGP video so yeah it ought to be supported assuming it isnt one of the first generation TiBook's with the ATI 128 (also AGP but the chipset dosent appear to be supported).

  11. Hmmm by Auckerman · · Score: 3, Informative

    1. macthis.org has no dns entry
    2. google has no idea who "mac this", mac.this, or macthis is/are.
    3. Do the editors even click on the links before posting?

    --

    Burn Hollywood Burn
    1. Re:Hmmm by Incadenza · · Score: 0

      whois macthis.org

      Domain Name: MACTHIS.ORG
      Registrar: DOTSTER, INC.
      Whois Server: whois.dotster.com
      Referral URL: http://www.dotster.com/help/whois
      Name Server: NS1.LUGGAGEPLANET.COM
      Name Server: NS1.KNITE.NET
      Updated Date: 05-nov-2001

      Yes, the do exist. My guess is they are sooo tiny that even their name servers got /.ed

      Also, Google is not the end to all queries. Don't forget alltheweb.

  12. Longhorn, Whistler, and Blackcomb by cpeterso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The next version of Windows is codenamed "Longhorn". It is a kind of cow.

    Longhorn is a bar at the Whistler ski resort north of Vancouver, BC (just a few hours drive from Microsoft's Redmond campus). The two mountains there are Whistler and Blackcomb. Whistler was the codename for Windows XP and Blackcomb is/was the codename for Windows .NET Server. See, it all makes sense..

    --
    cpeterso
    1. Re:Longhorn, Whistler, and Blackcomb by Surlyboi · · Score: 1

      Yeah, MS is spending way too much time on the slopes.

      Wait, now that I think of it, wasn't that big code
      freeze right around Whistler's peak season? =D

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
    2. Re:Longhorn, Whistler, and Blackcomb by andrewski · · Score: 1

      The real reason why Longhorn was chosen as the name of the new Windows is because Bill Gates is still hoping that his penis will grow. The current size and shape of Bill's penis is such that it can't be distinguished from his pubes. Whistler is named for his wife's reaction to the apparent lack of a penis (she apparently whistles during sex to occupy herself) and Blackcomb is actually named after the fated comb that once amputated his penis. Bill reportedly didn't notice it was missing until weeks later, but scientisis were able to attach a fetal mouse penis. All is well, and Bill says he notices a marked size improvement.

  13. Screenshots by ekalb · · Score: 4, Informative

    Spymac has lots of screenshots of Jaguar from the WWDC here. Guess NDAs don't bother some people ;)

  14. Quartz Extreme by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I hear this vast sucking sound; it's coming from a massive lack of information about the one thing most of us are craving on OS X: speed. If others could chime in on this thread maybe we can figure some things out.

    From what I've gleaned so far we know the following:

    - QE is said to need a "nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance."

    - The wording on the above statement may or may not be read as "requires", depending on whom you ask.

    - The tech involved in such a feat described (single pipeline of composited video) is really advanced and interesting, and raises questions; i.e. what does it mean for OS X when the entire drawing system is offloaded to custom chips? (or on a completely side note: what does it mean when you have standardized hardware-accel. video for your OS, and the Finder is now utterly replaceable? Things like this?)

    - The tech involved in QE may have come from Raycer, a company Apple acquired in early 2000. Raycer developed high-performance 3D visualization solutions using OpenGL. Apple consequently has a patent (lost the #, sorry) on vague things like 'large-scale grid transformations' (paraphrasing).

    - A lot of us iBook owners, and other Rage128-based Mac owners, would like to know if QE will work partially, or at all, on this hardware.

    So who can comment intelligently on what's happening here?

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:Quartz Extreme by Hadlock · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "A lot of us iBook owners, and other Rage128-based Mac owners, would like to know if QE will work partially, or at all, on this hardware."

      in short - You're Phucked.

      quarts extreme is going to be the "killer app" to get everyone to upgrade from their "legacy" hardware, to the new ibooks and whatnot that you'll see comming out @ macworld NY. i'd suggest selling your ibook now, or at least get someone with cash in hand lined up for it, as it's about to devalue by about $300 :)

      it's no coincidence that the new tibook came out with a 32 meg ati radeon 7500 a week before they released the minimum "optimal performance" specs for quartz extreme. so far the only laptops capable of quartz extreme is the rev. b & c tibooks. all ibooks, crt imacs, and g3 powerbooks are Phucked.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    2. Re:Quartz Extreme by Srsen · · Score: 3, Informative

      The requirements for QE are based on the video chip architecture, not the amount of VRAM on the card. 32MB is recommended the same way that OSX has 192 MB of installed RAM recommended. That's what you need for optimum performance under heavy loads, but it will work OK with half of that amount.

      The graphics accelerators will still work on all Rage128 Macs, they just won't pipe the 2D, 3D, and video all through the chip like QE.

    3. Re:Quartz Extreme by capologist · · Score: 1

      all ibooks, crt imacs, and g3 powerbooks are Phucked.

      I guess my Cube is phucked, too. :-(

    4. Re:Quartz Extreme by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 1

      no, you can get an Apple-legitimate Radeon 32MB for your Cube, same as the one in my PowerMac, excepting the addition of a little fan. Quiet one, though - should've ordered that Radeon when you got it...

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    5. Re:Quartz Extreme by capologist · · Score: 1

      no, you can get an Apple-legitimate Radeon 32MB for your Cube

      Thanks for the info! Where would I get this? I don't see it offerred at the Apple on-line store. About how much should I expect to pay for it?

      should've ordered that Radeon when you got it...

      I got it used; DVD/450 model with 192MB RAM (64+128; one open DIMM slot) plus a USB CD-writer for about $800. Still seems like a pretty good deal.

    6. Re:Quartz Extreme by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 1

      best bet is to try and find someone who's upgraded their stock Radeon OEM to something else and get theirs. AccelerateyourMac.com forums are a great place to start looking. You could also probably obtain one as a spare part from an Apple service centre, but e prepared to PAY that way...

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    7. Re:Quartz Extreme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, that's a GREAT deal. You've probably also got yourself the only computer that virtually GUARANTEED to appreciate in value significantly over it's lifetime. If you upgrade that machine with Apple parts (say, max out the RAM, fit the Radeon and put in a 100GB HD) and keep the case spotless, you're on easy street. Apple MAY bring back the cube, but I doubt it - it was just TOO cool.

    8. Re:Quartz Extreme by capologist · · Score: 1

      Thanks again.

      Apparently, these things are pretty tough to come by. I found this forum post, dated 4/19, about somebody who had 80 of the things... sold out within hours.

      A search on eBay turned up one that recently sold for $300, and two open auctions with current bids at $275. Impressive, considering that Apple used to sell them for $249. The Anonymous Coward above said that my Cube will appreciate in value; evidently, that goes for the graphics card, too.

    9. Re:Quartz Extreme by Erik+K.+Veland · · Score: 1

      Oh my f*cking god!

      Completely useless, but oh-so-cool... serious geek-factor...

      Need...to...fork...over...money...for...graphic. .. card... Finally got an excuse since I don't play much games...

      --
      "I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
  15. A quick question... by cuyler · · Score: 1

    Likely one that will be answered easily here.

    There was mention that Jaguar would require a 32mb video card. Being the owner of the crt iMac I obviously do not have one (16mb ATI). Does anyone know if the higher end video card would be required to update to 10.2 and just have some features turned off (the hand writting software for instance could be completely disabled).

    I can see why I would need to have a 32mb 3d video card just so I can finally be able to print to a CUPS printer. Thanks.

    1. Re:A quick question... by godawful · · Score: 1

      no it does not require a 32 mb video card, that is only required to use quartz extreme, which is hardware based rendering for the gui. yours will still use software based rendering as is used in 10.1.

      (i know that is not exactly true about software based but i'm keeping it simple to avoid confusion)

      --
      Live EVERY week... Like it's Shark Week
  16. No DNS?? Huh? by CXI · · Score: 1

    Registrant:
    macthis.org

    2371 Purdue Drive
    Costa Mesa, California 92626
    US

    Domain Name: MACTHIS.ORG
    Created on: 24-AUG-01
    Expires on: 24-AUG-02
    Last Updated on: 24-AUG-01

    1. Re:No DNS?? Huh? by Auckerman · · Score: 1

      Registered with no DNS. I already noticed they were in whois, but I have yet to find their IP.

      --

      Burn Hollywood Burn
    2. Re:No DNS?? Huh? by CXI · · Score: 1
      Ah. Right. Sorry about that. Anyway, this is interesting:

      http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://macthis.org

      Last October this was just a test site by mrbiiggy, which is the same name that's on all the screen shots on SpyMac. He lists his homepage on his profile as knite.net, which is the same as his primary DNS, and it looks like a DSL connection in Costa Mesa, CA. It's probably the same web server that was doing macthis.org, but is now down for obvious reasons. I would guess that he yanked the IP and server when his phone jack started melting. His secondary DNS was on a cable modem in New York which isn't accepting DNS connections but is still up (as far as I can tell) but I imagine knite.net is the same IP as macthis.org.

      Anyway, it boils down to the fact that there probably was a site there, and just because there isn't one now is no indication that they didn't check the link before posting.

  17. Speaking of trouble... by MisterP · · Score: 1

    about 6 years ago I remember using some software called ichat.... oh here it is:

    http://www.ichat.com/

    ichat®

    Surely they Apple couldn't have overlooked this.

    1. Re:Speaking of trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That website says I can create a chat room for as little as $595! What value!

  18. I'm dying to know what a spring loaded... by SIGFPE · · Score: 1

    ...folder is.

    --
    -- SIGFPE
    1. Re:I'm dying to know what a spring loaded... by Steve+Cowan · · Score: 1

      Spring-loaded folders were in the classic Mac OS since 8.0 or 8.5, I believe.

      Essentially, you can drag an item on top of a folder and hold it there, and after a moment the folder will open up and reveal its contents. You can continue to drill down through folders in this manner, and when you release the mouse button, all those open windows you left behind just close up, leaving you where you dropped your file.

      It has also been nicknamed "drag-and-drill".

      Once you use it a few times, you take it for granted, and a lot of people were disappointed to find this feature absent in Mac OS X.

    2. Re:I'm dying to know what a spring loaded... by eet23 · · Score: 1

      In OS 9, if you dragged a file over a folder icon, the folder would temporarily open so you could put a file many layers deep without having to open the window first for the folder you wanted the file in, then move windows about so that the original file and the folder you want to put it in are both visible and so on. Once you were finished all the temporary open folder windows were closed.

    3. Re:I'm dying to know what a spring loaded... by jo42 · · Score: 1
      Nice, very nice.

      - You have paid for a total of 0 pages and so far 80786 have been used up (80686 today).

    4. Re:I'm dying to know what a spring loaded... by SIGFPE · · Score: 1

      Very cool! Is there a third party tool to do this under Windows?

      --
      -- SIGFPE
  19. Audio!! ?? by Steve+Cowan · · Score: 1

    I'm wondering if Apple has gotten everything worked out with Core Audio, and if Jaguar will be the release that makes it possible for major audio software makers to finally start releasing OS X ports.

    As I understand it, audio and MIDI are there in 10.1 but not yet robust enough for the pro apps. Any info on this?

    1. Re:Audio!! ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just a tidbit: if you look at the SpyMac pics of Jaguar, there seems to be a 'MIDI Setup' app; it has a pair of XLRs for an icon. Seems promising.

    2. Re:Audio!! ?? by Erik+K.+Veland · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is in 10.1 robust and all. Check some apps that use it: Peak, Deck and Ableton Live.

      --
      "I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
    3. Re:Audio!! ?? by SPYvSPY · · Score: 2

      Right. And audio is totally fucked on all DP G4 Quicksilvers in 10.1. Have a look at the OSX-->Using Audio forum under Apple's support pages for more detail, if you like.

  20. rev b or c, how to tell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can I tell if my TiBook is a rev 'b' or 'c'?

    TIA

  21. Quartz Extreme by owenc · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If anyone is wondering exactly what Quartz Extreme could do, here's a screenshot.

    There's a DVD playing. The teacups are floating around from a different application. They are chrome.

    They are reflecting in real time what the movie is playing.

    (probably why it won't work on my Rage 128)

  22. Definitely some /.ing going on... by Soulfader · · Score: 1
    I can get a new page every few reloads... Particularly amusing is the sidebar:
    Who's Online

    We have 764 guests and 0 members online

    I suspect that's more than their usual traffic. =)

  23. Don't bother--screenshots gone. by Soulfader · · Score: 1
    They're hosted on someone's Mac.com homepage, and the bandwidth limit has been exceeded. Too bad.

    1. Re:Don't bother--screenshots gone. by phyxeld · · Score: 2

      They're hosted on someone's Mac.com homepage, and the bandwidth limit has been exceeded. Too bad.

      I guess mac.com is the place to host forbidden apple images - saves apple legal the trouble of writing you a cease and desist letter!
      (if the bandwidth limit doesn't stop you, surely the AUP you agreed to with your mac.com account will...)

      --
      __
      Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
  24. Network printing from Mac to Mac? by diverman · · Score: 1

    Well, I saw info about CUPS. But I'm not getting the feeling that that will enable me to print to a USB printer connected to one Mac, from another Mac. WTF!

    I mean, for the home user, it's rediculous to not be able to print to my printer from all machines, having the printer being shared by one. Bah!

    I've seen several hacks to get around this, but none do I consider acceptable. It should just WORK! And it's all because of the rediculously stupid choices made in terms of interfaces and responsibilities of the printer driver. SOOO stupid that it is responsible for the physical location of printing, and not JUST the data formatting for the printer (via any deliverable means). That certainly doesn't encourage vendors to update drivers often either. Why? Because it's a pain in the ass with all that it has to do.

    *sigh*

    Just my gripe. Something I would LIKE to see in 10.2, personally.

    -Alex

    1. Re:Network printing from Mac to Mac? by Drishmung · · Score: 1
      Well, that was one of the announcements, buried in the noise. Printer sharing, for the education sector. I guess that means USB sharing might finally work.

      I imagine that what is in Jaguar is a lot of 'minor' tweaks/refinements that add up to a much nicer experience overall. For instance, it appears as if scanners might finally get some decent support; the new Finder features sound like ones that might actually be useful rather than flashy; there is a GUI interface to the ipfw; there is support for IPv6.

      A lot of these are not really earth shattering, but they make a first step to being useful in the corporate market, for instance.

      --
      Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
  25. jaw...on...floor... by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 2


    Okay, suddenly the whole "32MB GPU RAM, 2X AGP required" thing makes a whole lot more sense. Dear god in heaven that's badass...

    --

    News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.