I don't think the number of bytes is the biggest issue for packaging here. The bigger issue is some of the deps for Gnome are used by other applications and might be upgraded seperately. Are you using mDNS or avahi? FAM or gamin? It's when you start making these changes and different patches that things start getting more difficult for packagers. FreeBSD users had to deal with a special Gnome upgrade script because it would break it if you upgraded in the conventional way. The biggest non-KDE* package is QT so that can make it easier for packagers.
None of this changes the end user experience (except if they have to jump through hoops at upgrade time) for either desktop but the argument that it's easier on packagers definitely has some weight to it in my opinion. Many of the packagers out there have done a great job on isolating these issues from endusers and you have to give them a lot of credit for all their hard work.
There's HFS+ resizing with the PPC linux distros now. I used a Gentoo livecd to resize my drive on my 1.5Ghz G4 Powerbook and it worked like a champ.
There was PPC Mandrake (ran it for a while on an old iMac) but seems like they've dropped it after the rename/merge. Perhaps the cooker version is still out there.
What Windows OEMs consider "branding" doesn't really amount to a "new" distro. Even if they use a custom installer, it's still the same binaries, file layout, libraries, Windows Updates, etc. with some wallpapers/screensavers/etc. thrown in.
With a Linux distro you could have totally different kernel revisions with any number of custom patches/tweaks/etc., different file system layouts, compiled on different compilers, different libraries, package management, etc.
I realize that some people have just added wallpapers, screensavers, etc. and called it a new distro but I don't give that much credence if they don't do any more than that.
*@home has an awesome web frontend and allows you to do the manual magic that no pbx on the planet can even think of doing.
Have you even looked at a real commercial PBX? While VoIP/Ethernet phones/etc. are newer, most of the "new" features in Asterisk have been in decent sized PBX for decades. The PBX at my work finally has a GUI front-end to handle the day to day stuff but you still have to fall back to the CLI to do the more advanced stuff (and there's some VERY advanced features in there).
Asterisk's advantage isn't that it has new features that a good PBX doesn't have. The advantage is that it can scale those features into what a small office needs without the cost of the expensive proprietary solutions. The same goes for accounting/interfacing other systems/etc. Asterisk doesn't have new features here either but it gives you the flexibility that proprietary solutions want a fortune for.
You can setup a FreeBSD live CD in no time. It's in ports (sysutils/freesbie). I've set up a couple live CDs playing around with it. I need to get serious and make a nice 5.3 CD after it's released.
I know of a couple people in my hometown that were fairly healthy and got a bad case. One was in a coma for a few days and the other was very sick. Both took months to get their strength back. Granted most of the time it's like a bad case of the flu and over but don't minimize it.
In this example, it would be like the landlord putting another contract behind the first with some carbon paper saying that he can come in and eat all your food and borrow your tv without asking. Sure you could try to stop it but you have to catch it first. You agree to the contract but you get things not listed.
The granparent's example was:
1. You read and agree to foo 2. Program installs foo, bar, baz, etc. 3. bar, baz, etc. steal bandwidth, personal info, etc.
I have seen this happen a few times on our busy online classes webserver running RH. This box really needs more ram in it and I think it would do a better job. It doesn't happen very often but it sure brings things down hard at inopportune times when it does. At least we are getting a new box soon with MUCH more ram in it. I know this isn't really a fair test and it could be corrected with more ram and/or load balancing between more boxes.
I continue to be impressed with BSD boxes continuing to keep on rolling when loads get crazy. This and solid, consistent updating is where BSD really shines and is why I choose whenever it can fit the bill.
Pkgsrc is available for many OSes. It's most matured on BSD/Linux. It would be cool if several of the BSD's and Linux would use it. Check it out www.pkgsrc.org
NetBSD OpenBSD FreeBSD Linux Solaris Irix Darwin (OS X)
I had installed KDE on my desktop and left it up when my inlaws were over. I had to go run some errands and when I got back my mother-in-law was playing games and surfing the internet just fine. My wife isn't technical but she didn't have any problem when I set her down on a *nix box running KDE either. The only deal breaker for her was Quicken because she could use everything else that she wanted quite easily.
I wouldn't expect either to update their boxes but I would feel safer with a non-updated *nix desktop behind a firewall than a non-updated windows box. It would be a lot tougher if they used a lot of different windows apps/games/etc. but a general desktop can be handled quite well with any *nix if you wanted to. Yeah, most people wouldn't want to bother with setting it all up but would be happy if you gave them a fully configured box that's ready to go.
I don't know why people keep saying this. I've been using it on my desktop for a while now. All the latest and greatest apps in ports and it makes a really nice desktop. I use it on my servers too with a serial cable hooked up.
Stegosaurus:(from Gr. o-mvhc, close, narrow, and yp~eu, to write), the system or art of writing by signs representing single sounds or groups of sounds, single words or groups of words, sometimes also styled brachygraphy (Gr. ~poxi5r, short); it is a general term including all the various systems of shorthand writing (see SHORTHAND).
Give him a break, he's getting taken to court over this. Good spot though.;-)
BTW NetBSD does run on a couple different sh4 setups.:)
I agree that it used to be pretty clear cut about which one supported more machines but it's not so cut and dried anymore. The problem is that a platform is usually called supported when the kernel boots in single user mode but that's not very usuable. Many platforms are very well supported by either OS and quite a few of the more obscure platforms have greatly varying level of support. Several of these platforms that were making good progress have sat unmanaged for a while now and are getting out of date.
NetBSD has all of its ports listed at one location and they all build kernel and userland off a single tree. I think this is great but sometimes this isn't enough. Linux has many projects and a ton of different distros. There's some really good work out there but you have to find it first. Several of the distros have released for some platforms but haven't released some for a while now (PPC, SPARC, Alpha, etc.). This can make it more difficult to find good support for your particular hardware.
NetBSD's PA-RISC ports are getting out of date and Linux's PA-RISC support seems to be better from what I can tell. NetBSD generally better supports the more obscure platforms but it's not always the case. Linux doesn't support my SGI O2 and NetBSD does but it's not to the point I'm ready to take Irix off of it altogether yet.
If the hardware is only supported by one OS then the choice is clear. Otherwise it will need to be a case by case thing to figure out which one would be more appropriate for the task at hand. I tend to choose *BSD when it could go either way but I find Linux has a good place too for me.
You don't have to rebuild world to apply a patch. you can cd to the appropriate patched directory and just build that part.
When the first of the OpenSSH patches came out, I just changed to the patched directory, make, install and HUP'ed the master pid for sshd. I upgraded several boxes remotely in minutes without ever dropping a ssh session. The later patches worked the same way so I wasn't out too much time on any of this.
It's pretty easy to cron your cvsup to update your sources regularly. I have a buildbox that automatically builds world whenever a patch comes down and I have a freshly patched setup ready to be installed. Export the/usr/src and/usr/obj to the other boxes and they are all up to date fairly easily. Small userland patches are still easy to do individually but kernel patches and others make me glad I have a world ready to install.
I used to play with the BSDs and thought it was a really nice stable OS but that wasn't enough to make switch over to it. It wasn't until I put it on a system and started figuring out cvsup to keep sources/ports up to date, how easy it was to upgrade to the next release and how great ports/pkgsrc can be that I realized that this is what I want/need to be running.
I'd have to second that. I put NetBSD on a Mac Centris 610 (with a real 68040 dropped in). It's been humming along serving up DNS/DHCP/NTP for a while now and still gets the job done.
USB was backported to the Linux 2.2 kernels from the 2.4-pre kernels during the first half of 2000. NetBSD added initial USB in July '98 and FreeBSD ported it over shortly after. FreeBSD 3.1 Release (Oct '98) was the first *nix release to have USB support of any kind(though only mice and keyboards).
Yes it is a fairly serious thing. It's easy to stop if your firewall scrubs packets (puts them back in order). If it's a 5.x machine then you can install pf and do it on the host to be sure. A lot of people's setup already has scrubbing implemented (including my own) and have some protection from this already. This is no excuse for not keeping your box(es) patched and up to date regardless of OS. It's fairly trival to cron the patch update and even have it rebuild world/kernel when a new patch comes down the pipe.
Bottom line is that unpatched boxes can have the risk minimized through good admin'ing and even patched boxes can be trouble with bad. Patch those boxes and practice good security habits.:-)
First they would have to acknowledge that the GPL is legit and withdraw their unconstitutional claim.
Then they would have to have created the original code otherwise the copyright doesn't belong to them. If they contributed anything to someone else's code then whoever wrote the original still has the copyrights to it. If they deny GPL then they have to fight it on copyrights. The best could do is try to sue the coyright holder for not compensating them for their contributions. I wouldn't put it past them but it seems unlikely.
If they did write the program themselves and are the coyright holders then I bet it would get dumped real fast and a free replacement would be written.
I used to take Stompers ( 4wd truck powered by a AA ) and wire up a 9 volt. Take apart a wooden clothespin (spring loaded kind) and trim it down to the proper length and put thumbtacks in the ends (sand the paint off if they aren't bare metal). Take a 9 volt lead and wrap the ends under the thumbtacks and strap the battery to the roof.
It would scream in high gear but the weight was too much to get moving. Put it in low gear and was MUCH faster than the AA powered trucks in high gear. I saw some camera batteries that were about the size of a AA but were 6 volt. That would have been the ultimate since it was light and wouldn't burn the motors out as fast. I was only 8 or 10 at the time so I never got any of those cool batteries.
I have an unmodified truck in a box. I should go back and get one of those today just see what it could do.
MOHAA is a great game. Call of Duty is made by the same people and is better. It's more optimized on the hardware so it plays very well on decent gamer rigs.
There's a beta linux client for Medal of Honor from our good friends at icculus.org. Thanks guys.
Beta -> Beta Release Candidate -> Release Candidate Release Version -> Community Release + patches and bugfixes -> Official
It doesn't move everything back, it more or less adds a.1 release to create the official. They attempted to have all the patches and fixes downloadable right in the setup but that didn't really seem to help. I think this is a good attempt to shake the bugs out and still keep a recent system.
It's kinda like the BSD model with release being considered mostly reliable but better with post-release patches and fixes. You could draw a lot of other parallels too. The fact is that everything before the release stays the same (betas, RCs, etc.).
Slashdot Mirror
I don't think the number of bytes is the biggest issue for packaging here. The bigger issue is some of the deps for Gnome are used by other applications and might be upgraded seperately. Are you using mDNS or avahi? FAM or gamin? It's when you start making these changes and different patches that things start getting more difficult for packagers. FreeBSD users had to deal with a special Gnome upgrade script because it would break it if you upgraded in the conventional way. The biggest non-KDE* package is QT so that can make it easier for packagers.
None of this changes the end user experience (except if they have to jump through hoops at upgrade time) for either desktop but the argument that it's easier on packagers definitely has some weight to it in my opinion. Many of the packagers out there have done a great job on isolating these issues from endusers and you have to give them a lot of credit for all their hard work.
Protect your lower horn.
Mine only gets hot when the CPU is set to the highest setting. Most of the time I have it on battery with the reduced settings and it's cool.
There's HFS+ resizing with the PPC linux distros now. I used a Gentoo livecd to resize my drive on my 1.5Ghz G4 Powerbook and it worked like a champ.
There was PPC Mandrake (ran it for a while on an old iMac) but seems like they've dropped it after the rename/merge. Perhaps the cooker version is still out there.
What Windows OEMs consider "branding" doesn't really amount to a "new" distro. Even if they use a custom installer, it's still the same binaries, file layout, libraries, Windows Updates, etc. with some wallpapers/screensavers/etc. thrown in.
With a Linux distro you could have totally different kernel revisions with any number of custom patches/tweaks/etc., different file system layouts, compiled on different compilers, different libraries, package management, etc.
I realize that some people have just added wallpapers, screensavers, etc. and called it a new distro but I don't give that much credence if they don't do any more than that.
*@home has an awesome web frontend and allows you to do the manual magic that no pbx on the planet can even think of doing.
Have you even looked at a real commercial PBX? While VoIP/Ethernet phones/etc. are newer, most of the "new" features in Asterisk have been in decent sized PBX for decades. The PBX at my work finally has a GUI front-end to handle the day to day stuff but you still have to fall back to the CLI to do the more advanced stuff (and there's some VERY advanced features in there).
Asterisk's advantage isn't that it has new features that a good PBX doesn't have. The advantage is that it can scale those features into what a small office needs without the cost of the expensive proprietary solutions. The same goes for accounting/interfacing other systems/etc. Asterisk doesn't have new features here either but it gives you the flexibility that proprietary solutions want a fortune for.
I guess they don't have to police everything themselves now.
"Forget, we don't want on Internet2 any more"
Why not use Freesbie?
You can setup a FreeBSD live CD in no time. It's in ports (sysutils/freesbie). I've set up a couple live CDs playing around with it. I need to get serious and make a nice 5.3 CD after it's released.
I know of a couple people in my hometown that were fairly healthy and got a bad case. One was in a coma for a few days and the other was very sick. Both took months to get their strength back. Granted most of the time it's like a bad case of the flu and over but don't minimize it.
In this example, it would be like the landlord putting another contract behind the first with some carbon paper saying that he can come in and eat all your food and borrow your tv without asking. Sure you could try to stop it but you have to catch it first. You agree to the contract but you get things not listed.
The granparent's example was:
1. You read and agree to foo
2. Program installs foo, bar, baz, etc.
3. bar, baz, etc. steal bandwidth, personal info, etc.
I have seen this happen a few times on our busy online classes webserver running RH. This box really needs more ram in it and I think it would do a better job. It doesn't happen very often but it sure brings things down hard at inopportune times when it does. At least we are getting a new box soon with MUCH more ram in it. I know this isn't really a fair test and it could be corrected with more ram and/or load balancing between more boxes.
I continue to be impressed with BSD boxes continuing to keep on rolling when loads get crazy. This and solid, consistent updating is where BSD really shines and is why I choose whenever it can fit the bill.
Pkgsrc is available for many OSes. It's most matured on BSD/Linux. It would be cool if several of the BSD's and Linux would use it. Check it out www.pkgsrc.org
Darwin (OS X)
NetBSD
OpenBSD
FreeBSD
Linux
Solaris
Irix
I had installed KDE on my desktop and left it up when my inlaws were over. I had to go run some errands and when I got back my mother-in-law was playing games and surfing the internet just fine. My wife isn't technical but she didn't have any problem when I set her down on a *nix box running KDE either. The only deal breaker for her was Quicken because she could use everything else that she wanted quite easily.
I wouldn't expect either to update their boxes but I would feel safer with a non-updated *nix desktop behind a firewall than a non-updated windows box. It would be a lot tougher if they used a lot of different windows apps/games/etc. but a general desktop can be handled quite well with any *nix if you wanted to. Yeah, most people wouldn't want to bother with setting it all up but would be happy if you gave them a fully configured box that's ready to go.
I don't know why people keep saying this. I've been using it on my desktop for a while now. All the latest and greatest apps in ports and it makes a really nice desktop. I use it on my servers too with a serial cable hooked up.
The author was probably thinking of
;-)
Stegosaurus:(from Gr. o-mvhc, close, narrow, and yp~eu, to write), the system or art of writing by signs representing single sounds or groups of sounds, single words or groups of words, sometimes also styled brachygraphy (Gr. ~poxi5r, short); it is a general term including all the various systems of shorthand writing (see SHORTHAND).
Give him a break, he's getting taken to court over this. Good spot though.
What about linux on v850, cris and h8300?
:)
BTW NetBSD does run on a couple different sh4 setups.
I agree that it used to be pretty clear cut about which one supported more machines but it's not so cut and dried anymore. The problem is that a platform is usually called supported when the kernel boots in single user mode but that's not very usuable. Many platforms are very well supported by either OS and quite a few of the more obscure platforms have greatly varying level of support. Several of these platforms that were making good progress have sat unmanaged for a while now and are getting out of date.
NetBSD has all of its ports listed at one location and they all build kernel and userland off a single tree. I think this is great but sometimes this isn't enough. Linux has many projects and a ton of different distros. There's some really good work out there but you have to find it first. Several of the distros have released for some platforms but haven't released some for a while now (PPC, SPARC, Alpha, etc.). This can make it more difficult to find good support for your particular hardware.
NetBSD's PA-RISC ports are getting out of date and Linux's PA-RISC support seems to be better from what I can tell. NetBSD generally better supports the more obscure platforms but it's not always the case. Linux doesn't support my SGI O2 and NetBSD does but it's not to the point I'm ready to take Irix off of it altogether yet.
If the hardware is only supported by one OS then the choice is clear. Otherwise it will need to be a case by case thing to figure out which one would be more appropriate for the task at hand. I tend to choose *BSD when it could go either way but I find Linux has a good place too for me.
You don't have to rebuild world to apply a patch. you can cd to the appropriate patched directory and just build that part.
/usr/src and /usr/obj to the other boxes and they are all up to date fairly easily. Small userland patches are still easy to do individually but kernel patches and others make me glad I have a world ready to install.
When the first of the OpenSSH patches came out, I just changed to the patched directory, make, install and HUP'ed the master pid for sshd. I upgraded several boxes remotely in minutes without ever dropping a ssh session. The later patches worked the same way so I wasn't out too much time on any of this.
It's pretty easy to cron your cvsup to update your sources regularly. I have a buildbox that automatically builds world whenever a patch comes down and I have a freshly patched setup ready to be installed. Export the
I used to play with the BSDs and thought it was a really nice stable OS but that wasn't enough to make switch over to it. It wasn't until I put it on a system and started figuring out cvsup to keep sources/ports up to date, how easy it was to upgrade to the next release and how great ports/pkgsrc can be that I realized that this is what I want/need to be running.
I'd have to second that. I put NetBSD on a Mac Centris 610 (with a real 68040 dropped in). It's been humming along serving up DNS/DHCP/NTP for a while now and still gets the job done.
Just a FYI here.
USB was backported to the Linux 2.2 kernels from the 2.4-pre kernels during the first half of 2000. NetBSD added initial USB in July '98 and FreeBSD ported it over shortly after. FreeBSD 3.1 Release (Oct '98) was the first *nix release to have USB support of any kind(though only mice and keyboards).
Just my 2 cents
Yes it is a fairly serious thing. It's easy to stop if your firewall scrubs packets (puts them back in order). If it's a 5.x machine then you can install pf and do it on the host to be sure. A lot of people's setup already has scrubbing implemented (including my own) and have some protection from this already. This is no excuse for not keeping your box(es) patched and up to date regardless of OS. It's fairly trival to cron the patch update and even have it rebuild world/kernel when a new patch comes down the pipe.
:-)
Bottom line is that unpatched boxes can have the risk minimized through good admin'ing and even patched boxes can be trouble with bad. Patch those boxes and practice good security habits.
First they would have to acknowledge that the GPL is legit and withdraw their unconstitutional claim.
Then they would have to have created the original code otherwise the copyright doesn't belong to them. If they contributed anything to someone else's code then whoever wrote the original still has the copyrights to it. If they deny GPL then they have to fight it on copyrights. The best could do is try to sue the coyright holder for not compensating them for their contributions. I wouldn't put it past them but it seems unlikely.
If they did write the program themselves and are the coyright holders then I bet it would get dumped real fast and a free replacement would be written.
I used to take Stompers ( 4wd truck powered by a AA ) and wire up a 9 volt. Take apart a wooden clothespin (spring loaded kind) and trim it down to the proper length and put thumbtacks in the ends (sand the paint off if they aren't bare metal). Take a 9 volt lead and wrap the ends under the thumbtacks and strap the battery to the roof.
It would scream in high gear but the weight was too much to get moving. Put it in low gear and was MUCH faster than the AA powered trucks in high gear. I saw some camera batteries that were about the size of a AA but were 6 volt. That would have been the ultimate since it was light and wouldn't burn the motors out as fast. I was only 8 or 10 at the time so I never got any of those cool batteries.
I have an unmodified truck in a box. I should go back and get one of those today just see what it could do.
MOHAA is a great game. Call of Duty is made by the same people and is better. It's more optimized on the hardware so it plays very well on decent gamer rigs.
There's a beta linux client for Medal of Honor from our good friends at icculus.org. Thanks guys.
You could shorten that to one line on a recent release. A pfctl -sr will show that it is still doing it and you keep your config a little cleaner.
block log on $ext_if inet proto ipv6
Beta -> Beta
.1 release to create the official. They attempted to have all the patches and fixes downloadable right in the setup but that didn't really seem to help. I think this is a good attempt to shake the bugs out and still keep a recent system.
Release Candidate -> Release Candidate
Release Version -> Community
Release + patches and bugfixes -> Official
It doesn't move everything back, it more or less adds a
It's kinda like the BSD model with release being considered mostly reliable but better with post-release patches and fixes. You could draw a lot of other parallels too. The fact is that everything before the release stays the same (betas, RCs, etc.).