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PS2 Price May Fall, Gamecube Staying Put
mrquackers writes: "Looks like the price war in the console gaming world is starting a bit early. With Microsoft expected to announce a drop in the price of the Xbox to $199 next Monday at E3, Sony's rumored to be cutting PlayStation 2 prices as early as tomorrow. Meanwhile, Nintendo says it won't be making ANY price cuts before or during the show -- though it's not ruling one out for later in the year." Update: 05/14 18:01 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points out this CNN story indicating that the PS2 cut is official.
http://www.gamers.com/news/1147215
:)
Even the PS One is getting a price cut to $50
Are that the ethernet and 56k modem adaptors will be sold for just $34.95 each. Nintendo were looking as thought they weren't going to bring these out previously so this is damn good news - finally PSO without loads of hacked-up charecters (hopefully...)
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
Mind you consumers are gaining in the meantime so whos complaining
If the X-Box is responsible for one thing, it's being the catalyst for console prices to drop dramatically at a faster rate than previous generations.
As consoles are sold at a loss anyway, getting more into gamers' homes can only be a good thing, right? At this rate, I can probably afford two different consoles, and have more choice with what I play. This is good, right?
Hell, I may even treat myself to a PSOne at that price.
"Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
And yet, Microsoft has had a phenomenal attach rate, much higher than the PS2 had even months after its launch. Let's do the math. Assume at $200, the XBox is losing $150 (the commonly quoted (but unconfirmed) numbers were losing $100 at $300, but six months after the launch, we can assume that production costs have started to go down so that this price drop won't be losing a full $200). If the XBox has an attach rate of 4 games at purchase (assume $50 each, Microsoft would make say $15 on 3rd party titles, $40 on 1st party, also assume 2 of these are Microsoft titles), plus three controllers at $50 a piece (say, $30 back to Microsoft) because halo's great fun with four players, another $30 for the DVD kit (say, $15 back to MS), and $20 ($10 to MS) for advanced connectors (S-Video or component video and digital audio). That's $15 * 2 + $40 * 2 + $30 * 3 + $15 + $10 = $225, or a $75 profit on the sale of the XBox and attached games and peripherals.
My numbers may be off, but the point here is to show that, even though the XBox console itself is sold at a loss, a profit can still be made. And a profit very likely is being made, because it's already been shown that the XBox is attaching very well (and the recent price drops in Europe et al have actually increased the attach rate of new XBoxes -- do a google search).
And just as a preemptive strike against those who would invoke the Gord on me, I'm linking there already. He's a PS2 fanboy, and a funny author, but his maths don't add up.
Just look at the cell phone market. They give away $50+ cellphones for free to people that sign up. Their business model is working. The console market has been doing this for ages, it's not something that MS decided to do to this market.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
GameCube is more for kids, whatever Nintendo tries.
Yup, little kide love romping around a dark stormy mansion with a shotgun trying to blow a zombie's head off while they get bitten into, blood splattering, screaming and struggling until they fall onto the floor and a huge puddle of blood surrounds them.
Yup, kids are covered.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
Especially since there's 2-3 modchips out now for the Xbox - and a lot of people (including myself) will buy it as a cheap PC that can play DivX, SVCD, mp3, old emulators, browse the web etc in front of my TV.
it's in my head
Where does this crap about Microsoft losing hundreds of dollars per console come from? Retarded slashdotnomics? The XBox is definitely not several hundreds of dollars worth of parts, especially for a manufacturer buying hundreds of thousands of each component. Integrated components are scores cheaper than non-integrated components. A processor slow by current standards on a fully integrated motherboard with a hard drive easily produced and procured from several different sources lacking price gouging components like speakers, a monitor, or a KB/mouse combo all make for a pretty inexpensive machine to build. A bare bones PC costs about as much as an XBox and they use more exepensive components. Besides Microsoft isn't paying the beaucoup fees to ship units overseas, they have manufacturing plants on the three continents they sell XBoxes on.
Console makers have always taken a loss on the initial batches of the consoles as a matter of course, the games were the money makers. Half of the cost of a new game goes back into the pockets of whoever makes the console. It costs a bit of money to have that Sony Entertainment or Nintendo logo pop up when the game starts. The consoles merely existed to play the games on. When a console maker hit black they'd drop the price of the console to just above cost and soak up the profit from licensing. Sony has been making a profit off the PS2 for a while now because with the XBox aiming at the same demographics the price of the PS2 hasn't needed to drop. They've sold millions of PS2s and made many more millions off all the blockbuster games for it. Microsoft might be taking a small loss or just operating on a razor thin margin with the XBox but they're not losing hundreds of dollars per freaking console.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
No matter how big you are you just cannot indefinately lose hundreds of dollars on consoles.
:/
:)
No, not really. I did help in some Nintendo's game development about 7-10 years ago here is the figure(roughly, may vary in other place):
Game development kit: US$200,000.00
License to develop a game(including NDA your company need to sign): US$13,000.00
After you developed the game and made the mother chip, you need to send the chip back to Nintendo for mass product. They will send the result chips back to you. (Yes, you don't own it, you buy back the chips from Nintendo) Cost to buy back the chips (minimal 5000 a bulk) is approx.: $20x5000 = US$100,000.00
Not to mention the cost to package, market and promote your production. You must pay a certain amount of money to Nintendo if you care to market it(loyality fee, and fee to use the trademark something). Cost = unknown, depend on the scale and market.
In the process they earned at least US$313,000 excluding marketing. If the sales is good they will get part of your revenue - don't forget, you don't own the product you made, they own it. You were just given the right to market and sell it.
My friends and I left the field because it's too hard for same game development company to survive. I believe things has changed now, but the business model is more or less the same(anyone would update me?).
So, don't think they'd ever lose money selling console cheap.
I like this scenario:
Microsoft sells Xbox underpriced - making a loss per each sold product. Meanwhile as the modchips have already been released, Microsoft is digging another hole for themselves: they have created the perfect platform for cheap Linux based homecomputer, again, project(s) already going. Once this evolvs into a easy-to-setup Linux home computer: voila!
Summasummarum, Microsoft's bully tactics may well prove as the ultimate bullet to their own head. They will end up loosing both because of hardware and because of lost Windows license fees. Eventually, loosing around $200 because of every sold Xbox. Thanks.
Your's neihter:
You assume everybody buys 3 controllers (!). Maybe one is appropriate. Royalties on games on the XBox is 8 - 9$ AFAIK, which is more than on any other console but still a lot less than 15$ you quoted. Also they are giving away games to people who bought at the expensive price, so your 4 games per console is also very optimistic.
I find the whole "people buying more games for the Xbox when it first came out than the PS2" argument to be silly.
Most of the initial "Xbox purchases" were forced bundles. If you wanted an Xbox on launch date here in the US, most places would not sell you one without buying their bundle of 3 games and an extra controller.
Compare to the PS2, which shipped as was (with a DVD player, backwards compatible to the PSOne). They didn't have to force bundle, because Sony knew they would just have to bide their time.
What's happened since then? 10 million PS2's sold in the US, 30 million worldwide, and Sony still ruling the roost by having more games out there, and more sales of games than the Xbox.
I'm not saying the Xbox is a bad system, but I will say it's a poorly managed one. Their decision not to allow simple USB connections for the keyboard/mouse I think is a bad idea (I want to use a keyboard to enter my ripped CD titles, and online play without a keyboard? Forgetaboutit.), thier "pay for broadband" is going to bite them in the ass with Nintendo stating their Ethernet/Modem controllers will work with your own ISP (aka - no fee), and their (admitted - arguable) lack of more than 3 or 4 good, exclusive titles compared to the big N and the PS2 is going to keep hurting them.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
of consoles and thats what gamers go for."
First off, the quality of Microsoft's graphics compared to the other two consoles is debatable at best. I've seen displays where all three consoles are playing next to each other and I see no clear difference between the three in terms of graphical performance.
Secondly, if gamers just wanted graphics then companies would be selling screen savers, not games. Gamers want games (hence the name "gamers"). Historicly, gamers have consistently gone for the console with the better games or the larger library than the one with superior hardware.
- The Atari 2600 instead of the Intellivision or the ColecoVision.
- They bought the NES instead of the Sega Master System.
- They bought the Game Boy instead of the Lynx, Turbo Express, Game Gear, Neo Geo Pocket Color, etc.
- They continued buying NESes after the Sega Genesis came out.
- They bought the Sega Genesis instead of the SNES.
- While the 16-bit SNES and Genesis were duking it out, nobody bought a Neo Geo, a Jaguar, a 3DO, or a CD-I.
- The 32-bit PlayStation outsold the 64-bit N64 (at least outside North America).
- The Dreamcast found itself hard-pressed to compete against the PlayStation and N64.
"frankly the GC has some pretty damn lame games so far except for Luigis Mansion but thats only of interest if you're 15 or under IMO."Then you've obviously never played any GC games (which is consistant with your "Graphics Uber Alles" statement). I have yet to see a game on any of GC's competitors, for example, that has the 4-player fun that Super Smash Bros. Melee has.
Nice try at trolling but you could have tried a lot harder.
Hey smartguy, I've got all three next gen consoles and let me tell you something: there is a big difference in graphics power, and it affects gameplay.
Take, for example, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, which is ubiquitous. I have played it on GC, PS2 and Xbox, and guess which one plays more smoothly. Xbox, period. It doesn't have the slowdown, it doesn't have the pop-up - both of which are a problem on PS2 and GC. Let's not even make a big deal out of the fact that the Xbox version comes with an extra playable character and an extra level.
Let's look at Spider-Man, which is also out on every damn platform save Dreamcast. It, too, has extra levels that are exclusive to the Xbox version. And guess what? It plays much better on the Xbox, due largely to the fact that the Xbox hardware blows PS2 and GameCube away. No slow-down, no pop-up... guess what consoles have a problem with that?
I like my GameCube too, but you being a Nintendo fanboy doesn't change the fact that the hardware is inferior to the Xbox.
I won't even begin to talk about Xbox (lockups, price, games, controller,...)
Yeah, smartguy. Because you know that you can't win that battle. I've had my Xbox since the week after they were first released. I have played it more than any other console I currently own, save Dreamcast. It has been on 24/7 since I got it. It has never locked up (or, for that matter, given me any problem whatsoever).
The price is in line with PS2 and considering the fact that it does much more than a GameCube or PS2, it's really not so bad. I don't need to buy memory cards for my Xbox, but I sure as shit had to dump out some cash for PS2 and GameCube cards so I could save some games. Total cost of ownership for the Xbox is lower than PS2 and is barely higher than GameCube. And like I said, you're getting more with Xbox.
The games that are coming out for Xbox are just fine. You can bitch and moan all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Xbox had the strongest console launch since consoles were first deployed. Its games were all pretty much top-notch, which is more than can be said for GameCube or PS2. Xbox currently has over 60 games. I own exactly 10 of them, and all of them are pretty great. This includes a number of games that are available for PS2, GameCube or both, but are much better on Xbox (see above). There may be no "killer app" games for Xbox... but there weren't for PS2 after its launch and there sure as shit aren't any for GameCube. Super Monkey Ball is pretty fun, Rogue Squadron is great and Super Smash Brothers Melee will definitely always have a place in my living room, but other than that, nothing great is out now. Saying that Nintendo's 2002 lineup will be fantastic is mostly hypocritical - look at all the good games that will be coming out for Xbox and PS2 as well.
The only part of your argument that has a shred of logic to it is a complaint about the Xbox controller. I personally like the Xbox Controller and the Xbox Controller-S (of which I own 2 of the former and 1 of the latter), but I have large hands. Buy the S if you don't, and if that doesn't suit your fancy, check out of some of the third party controllers. It's important to have something that you'll be comfortable with.
To sum it up: you're a Nintendo fanboy, deluded to forever see their greatness, and that's okay - but it doesn't negate the fact that the other consoles are pretty fucking good as well.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
Say, aren't we supposed to boycott Sony for screwing up our iMacs?
;)
I guess you didn't get the new revised itinerary...sorry!!
Anyway, the new schedule is:
Monday: Boycott Sony/MPAA
Tuesday: Relax, check out new tech products and video games.
Wednesday: Boycott RIAA, Call congresscritters over latest atrocious bill.
Thursday: Relax, check out the latest CDs coming on the market.
Friday: Boycott the MPAA in the daytime, go see a movie at night.
Saturday & Sunday: Pretend we have lives outside of work and don't post on Slashdot.
You're fooling yourself if you thik you can reasonably salvage anything from an XBox at this point in time. Sure, if you have the proper test equipment, you can watch the XBox unlock the HD, but that's more work than it's worth for an 8 GB HD for most of us. If any of you has a broken XBox or knows of a good place to pick up one for free, I'm sure I could find some MIT students willng to play with the BIOS encryption this Summer. Luckily as the price falls, more people are willing to risk breaking their XBoxes in order to reverse-engineer the BIOS encryption.
If somoeone finally breaks the BIOS encryption on the XBox (or figures out a safe way to bypass the decryption while loading the BIOS) and we get Linux BIOS or Open BIOS on the XBox, I'd be mighty tempted to pick up an XBox or four. After all, I'm only running a 266 MHz with 288 MB of RAM really is fine for almost everything.).
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
most large box retailers of 7 days price match. i know that Best Buy, Circuit City, and Fry's all do. take it back and get the money refunded that you over paid.
;-)
/* Half alive and half dead too, work is for suckers and the sucker is you. - "Half-life" by Local H*/
A good point, except for the fact that PS2 has probably gone longer without a price cut than any console in the last three generations. The E3 price cut was expected and probably wasn't driven by Microsoft - the exact timing, however, almost certainly was.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Knowing something about the parts market (I DO work for a set-top box company that's working on...alternate solutions...) those boxes cost something in the ballpark of $600-800 to make. Volumes do NOT make it dramatically cheaper to make- the harddrive, Celeron, etc. don't come THAT cheap. Why do you think the set-top box market went belly-up? It's because the stupid companies went with Geodes, etc. because they were CHEAP. Bill of materials costing you only $200 or so.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
The only question remaining for the XBox and Microsoft is whether or not the XBox can be a viable product in only 1 of the 3 major consoles markets. Japan and Europe are over for the XBox. For whatever reason people in those two major markets didn't buy the XBox. And once a product flops as badly as the XBox has in those markets, it is difficult, if not impossible to recover.
Points of fact:
(1) Halo sold a mere 5,000 copies in the most recent week in Japan. The most of any XBox title.
(2) Following its hugely successful launch in Europe, Nintendo is dominating the software charts there and will most likely easily slip into the "PS2 alternative" slot which the XBox had coveted.
(3) Recent data shows the Cube outselling the XBox in the US.
The larger implications of the XBox having failed in both Europe and Japan are that third party game support will soon trickle away. It simply won't make economic sense for game makers to support the XBox when its only market is a small piece of the US pie. Microsoft has managed to bribe/buy out/conjole a tepid welcome for the XBox after its launch and through the next 6 months. But once those game makers see how badly the box is selling, that support will quickly fade away.
The hard truth really is quite simple for Microsoft: the XBox will _never_ succeed with only a portion of the US market. Without 3rd party support the XBox is DEAD.
If I were a parent with young kids, and didn't have much money, the PS1 would seem like a good plan to me.
Exactly! That is what I did. First, I am NOT goin to spend $40 or more on a single game, period. Over the last couple months, I have bought all kinds of PS1 games off ebay for $6 to $20 each (after shipping). Also, I have burned copies of most of them so that my two year old can safely play games while the originals are kept out of reach.
A dingo ate my sig...
Here's my response. It says everything I want to say, eloquently.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)