Slashdot Mirror
PS2 Price May Fall, Gamecube Staying Put
mrquackers writes: "Looks like the price war in the console gaming world is starting a bit early. With Microsoft expected to announce a drop in the price of the Xbox to $199 next Monday at E3, Sony's rumored to be cutting PlayStation 2 prices as early as tomorrow. Meanwhile, Nintendo says it won't be making ANY price cuts before or during the show -- though it's not ruling one out for later in the year." Update: 05/14 18:01 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points out this CNN story indicating that the PS2 cut is official.
http://www.gamers.com/news/1147215
:)
Even the PS One is getting a price cut to $50
Are that the ethernet and 56k modem adaptors will be sold for just $34.95 each. Nintendo were looking as thought they weren't going to bring these out previously so this is damn good news - finally PSO without loads of hacked-up charecters (hopefully...)
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
No matter how big you are you just cannot indefinately lose hundreds of dollars on consoles.
Anyone with any idea of market forces will be able to confirm this.
And anyone with any idea of the console market would realise you only make the loss on consoles you sell (- stock) and that the whole basis of the market is to lose money on the console to claw it back on the games. But don't let that get in the way of your ms-bashing!
Mind you consumers are gaining in the meantime so whos complaining
If the X-Box is responsible for one thing, it's being the catalyst for console prices to drop dramatically at a faster rate than previous generations.
As consoles are sold at a loss anyway, getting more into gamers' homes can only be a good thing, right? At this rate, I can probably afford two different consoles, and have more choice with what I play. This is good, right?
Hell, I may even treat myself to a PSOne at that price.
"Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
It really doesn't matter about matching or costing less than a competitors console. If its reasonably priced, and it has figurehead games and a reasonable fan base, it will go well. Pros and Cons: P2 - Its older, but thats not necessarily a hard thing. Its got crap all RAM, and its hard to program for, but its still got more support than the X-Box. It has good titles, the FF series, and a good controller. X-Box - Its a great console, but no matter how much it costs, if its got no figurehead titles, it won't sell. And it doesn't. Halo is ok, but thats all that's even made me look twice. Im writing it off already, due to no games coming that interest me. Gamecube - Not out here (Australia) yet, so i cannot comment. Give me PC anyday.
Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
And yet, Microsoft has had a phenomenal attach rate, much higher than the PS2 had even months after its launch. Let's do the math. Assume at $200, the XBox is losing $150 (the commonly quoted (but unconfirmed) numbers were losing $100 at $300, but six months after the launch, we can assume that production costs have started to go down so that this price drop won't be losing a full $200). If the XBox has an attach rate of 4 games at purchase (assume $50 each, Microsoft would make say $15 on 3rd party titles, $40 on 1st party, also assume 2 of these are Microsoft titles), plus three controllers at $50 a piece (say, $30 back to Microsoft) because halo's great fun with four players, another $30 for the DVD kit (say, $15 back to MS), and $20 ($10 to MS) for advanced connectors (S-Video or component video and digital audio). That's $15 * 2 + $40 * 2 + $30 * 3 + $15 + $10 = $225, or a $75 profit on the sale of the XBox and attached games and peripherals.
My numbers may be off, but the point here is to show that, even though the XBox console itself is sold at a loss, a profit can still be made. And a profit very likely is being made, because it's already been shown that the XBox is attaching very well (and the recent price drops in Europe et al have actually increased the attach rate of new XBoxes -- do a google search).
And just as a preemptive strike against those who would invoke the Gord on me, I'm linking there already. He's a PS2 fanboy, and a funny author, but his maths don't add up.
GTA3 .. coming out next week for the PC! I've also been waiting ages for this. But so that they didn't have to delay anymore [and probably make people pay,] they are making the online multiplayer part an addon feature, not part of the game.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
Just look at the cell phone market. They give away $50+ cellphones for free to people that sign up. Their business model is working. The console market has been doing this for ages, it's not something that MS decided to do to this market.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
GameCube is more for kids, whatever Nintendo tries.
Yup, little kide love romping around a dark stormy mansion with a shotgun trying to blow a zombie's head off while they get bitten into, blood splattering, screaming and struggling until they fall onto the floor and a huge puddle of blood surrounds them.
Yup, kids are covered.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
Especially since there's 2-3 modchips out now for the Xbox - and a lot of people (including myself) will buy it as a cheap PC that can play DivX, SVCD, mp3, old emulators, browse the web etc in front of my TV.
it's in my head
Where does this crap about Microsoft losing hundreds of dollars per console come from? Retarded slashdotnomics? The XBox is definitely not several hundreds of dollars worth of parts, especially for a manufacturer buying hundreds of thousands of each component. Integrated components are scores cheaper than non-integrated components. A processor slow by current standards on a fully integrated motherboard with a hard drive easily produced and procured from several different sources lacking price gouging components like speakers, a monitor, or a KB/mouse combo all make for a pretty inexpensive machine to build. A bare bones PC costs about as much as an XBox and they use more exepensive components. Besides Microsoft isn't paying the beaucoup fees to ship units overseas, they have manufacturing plants on the three continents they sell XBoxes on.
Console makers have always taken a loss on the initial batches of the consoles as a matter of course, the games were the money makers. Half of the cost of a new game goes back into the pockets of whoever makes the console. It costs a bit of money to have that Sony Entertainment or Nintendo logo pop up when the game starts. The consoles merely existed to play the games on. When a console maker hit black they'd drop the price of the console to just above cost and soak up the profit from licensing. Sony has been making a profit off the PS2 for a while now because with the XBox aiming at the same demographics the price of the PS2 hasn't needed to drop. They've sold millions of PS2s and made many more millions off all the blockbuster games for it. Microsoft might be taking a small loss or just operating on a razor thin margin with the XBox but they're not losing hundreds of dollars per freaking console.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Or not. Just speaking from personal experience, the XBox controller (the large, original US one -- I haven't had a chance to try the new, smaller S/Japanese version yet) is the most comfortable console controller I've used. The PS2 controller is exactly the same as the PSOne controller, styling-wise, and those controllers always cramped my hands (I don't have especially large or small hands, btw). Just to round out the bunch, the GameCube controller feels like it took the worst of the PS2 (tiny size, flimsy design) and the N64 (oddly-placed buttons) and combined them into the single worst controller I've ever used.
The only people I know who have actually tried the XBox controller and had a problem with it were using it on one of the store displays, where the controller is locked into an uncomfortable position. These controllers were designed to fit well into your hand while reclining comfortably on your couch (thus the extra-long cords). If you've not tried an XBox controller in such a scenario, I suggest you try it. Play for a couple hours, and then see how you like it. Unless you have extremely small hands, I'll bet you'll end up preferring the XBox controller. It fits well in your hand, gives you easy access to the main controls, feels like a good sturdy power tool rather than a flimsy piece of plastic, and doesn't leave you all cramped up after an extended playing session.
I'm still holding out for one, since at $149 to $129 (or dare I think it: $99) I would be incredibly happy to finally get one. Besides, just because Nintendo says they won't be cutting prices, doesn't mean that it won't happen. Hell, just 6 days ago Sony was saying they wouldn't be making any price cuts at E3:
source
I've had nearly everything.. from intellivison, to atari 2600, to coleco vision, to nintendo 8 bit.. sega master, sega 16bit, nintendo 16bit.. turbo graphx(with CD), jaguar(ugh dunt remind me), to 3DO(one of my all time faves) to saturn and ps1 and PS2(love it!)....
:)
:)
Now that xbox has dropped(or will) drop to 200 range.. I'd might actually get one.. hate to say it.. since i'm personally against giving MS any of my earned cash(bla bla bla bla). But i have been impressed with some of the graphics i've seen on the xbox and it sounds like it can be a great system(has potenential)..
I guess the worst case is that I'll pay 200 bux for a 40gb IDE drive
As for Nintendo's new gamecube... its limited.. but hey its a gaming platform.. thats all.. i think i'll wait and see how good metroid will really be before i consider buying this one.
just a few honest thoughts about price drops here
No matter how big you are you just cannot indefinately lose hundreds of dollars on consoles.
:/
:)
No, not really. I did help in some Nintendo's game development about 7-10 years ago here is the figure(roughly, may vary in other place):
Game development kit: US$200,000.00
License to develop a game(including NDA your company need to sign): US$13,000.00
After you developed the game and made the mother chip, you need to send the chip back to Nintendo for mass product. They will send the result chips back to you. (Yes, you don't own it, you buy back the chips from Nintendo) Cost to buy back the chips (minimal 5000 a bulk) is approx.: $20x5000 = US$100,000.00
Not to mention the cost to package, market and promote your production. You must pay a certain amount of money to Nintendo if you care to market it(loyality fee, and fee to use the trademark something). Cost = unknown, depend on the scale and market.
In the process they earned at least US$313,000 excluding marketing. If the sales is good they will get part of your revenue - don't forget, you don't own the product you made, they own it. You were just given the right to market and sell it.
My friends and I left the field because it's too hard for same game development company to survive. I believe things has changed now, but the business model is more or less the same(anyone would update me?).
So, don't think they'd ever lose money selling console cheap.
Microsoft might be taking a small loss or just operating on a razor thin margin with the XBox but they're not losing hundreds of dollars per freaking console.
:)
Ehh... you know that Microsoft lost $10 - $15 on each sold console when the first launced it (I am too lazy to find a link for you, but I'm sure a quick search on google will get you a few), they said it themselves.
Now, I may not be a great mathematician, but if you add $100 to $10, then you get a total of $115
So, this is probably what they are loosing for each sold console today. Alright... it's not several hundred, but it is over one hundred... which is way more than any other console.
Don't you think there's something wrong with the X-Box if Microsoft has to loose that much to get them sold??
Say, aren't we supposed to boycott Sony for screwing up our iMacs?
They didn't cut any corners. That's a 400+ MHz customized PowerPC with a custom graphics chip by ArtX (since bought by ATI). Add a good amount of memory and serious bandwidth, and you have a hell of a system for something that went into development two years ago.
Aside from that, I really can't see adding another huge console to my cabinet just for games. The Cube fits nicely right next to my TV (width & depth aren't much wider than a CD, and it's even shorter than than).
Also, it's the only one that's remotely portable (even a handle on it) and you can buy an LCD top and car adapter to make it a real portable game machine for car trips.
So we're Sony's pals this week then?
:)
:)
Well according to the calendar yes..
5/12-5/18 Sony(celebrate PS2 price cuts)
5/19-5/25 Apple(celebrate rackmount servers)
5/26-6/01 PanIP(celebrate American Capitalism)
6/02-6/08 Microsoft(has to happen once a century)
6/09-6/15 Napster(company will be reborn and the same as in past but umm better)
6/16-6/22 AT&T(they realize they lose to much money and promise free phone calls for all)
6/23-6/29 TBA -- Check slashdot poll for this weeks
thats what the current calendar shows.. so be pre-pared
"As consoles are sold at a loss anyway, ..." a common myth. No consoles are sold at a loss past the first few months if the company doesn't want to lose millions (look at the Saturn: Sega learned that one the hardway as the Saturn supporters didn't help them at all). Any company that doesn't recoup costs of the hardware can't be competitve on pricing of the base unit or licencing to 3rd parties.
Sony has been making money on the PS2 systems since 2-3 months after they were released. They're just dropping their markup right now. Nintendo's probably only making a few percentage points on the Gamecube right now, and it uses much newer and more proprietary components than the PS2. And it doesn't have 2 years of components being refined and made cheaper yet.
MS is probably not losing any more on the Xbox because of price drops in supplies of things like the P3.
Think about normal consumer goods: everything you see probably has a 3-5x markup. A shirt that is 100$ on the rack cost 20$ tops. A 20$ shirt on the rack cost the original supplier maybe 4$. That's why they can stay in business with low sales. But consoles need high sales at first, which is why they are at a loss or break-even for the first little while. Then manufacturing advances or supplier changes modify the base costs. This allows a company to change its strategy. With Sony, it was "make money" -- with MS it's "increase penetration." Once MS has more consoles out there, they can reap the benefits of more money from 3rd parties, which is where the real money is to be made.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Six months is hardly an eternity, and you're talking about a company that has more cash to spend than any other. I personally think the Xbox's long-term prospects will be decided during the next holiday season. If the games are there and the online portion shows promising results, the MS will keep pouring cash into it. They *really* want into this market.
Actually that business model is not as good as it once once. Certainly over here in the UK, over 65% of the population own mobile phones, so there is already market saturation. Also, the big players now have huge debts after paying stupendous amounts of money for the 3G licenses. Phone prices are increasing now, not decreasing.
I like this scenario:
Microsoft sells Xbox underpriced - making a loss per each sold product. Meanwhile as the modchips have already been released, Microsoft is digging another hole for themselves: they have created the perfect platform for cheap Linux based homecomputer, again, project(s) already going. Once this evolvs into a easy-to-setup Linux home computer: voila!
Summasummarum, Microsoft's bully tactics may well prove as the ultimate bullet to their own head. They will end up loosing both because of hardware and because of lost Windows license fees. Eventually, loosing around $200 because of every sold Xbox. Thanks.
Would rather have the PS2, run linux, pleay PS1 games, PS2 games, ad DVD's.
$200 for the box, $200 for the Linux Kit, and a freaking huge game library. Not a bad deal.
The XBox will hurt Microsoft badly. Not only financially (where it is a desaster already, how much do they lose @ 200$ sales price?) but more importantly, they will lose their image of automatically succeeding and setting standards.
How often do people by MS because "it's the standard" or "it will become the standard"? Well the latter reason could evaporate because the XBox demonstrates that MS-technologies do not automatically become standards.
Microsoft makes $9 from each third-party title, not $15.
That wasn't the link, this is the one I was meant to post.
it's in my head
Your's neihter:
You assume everybody buys 3 controllers (!). Maybe one is appropriate. Royalties on games on the XBox is 8 - 9$ AFAIK, which is more than on any other console but still a lot less than 15$ you quoted. Also they are giving away games to people who bought at the expensive price, so your 4 games per console is also very optimistic.
I find the whole "people buying more games for the Xbox when it first came out than the PS2" argument to be silly.
Most of the initial "Xbox purchases" were forced bundles. If you wanted an Xbox on launch date here in the US, most places would not sell you one without buying their bundle of 3 games and an extra controller.
Compare to the PS2, which shipped as was (with a DVD player, backwards compatible to the PSOne). They didn't have to force bundle, because Sony knew they would just have to bide their time.
What's happened since then? 10 million PS2's sold in the US, 30 million worldwide, and Sony still ruling the roost by having more games out there, and more sales of games than the Xbox.
I'm not saying the Xbox is a bad system, but I will say it's a poorly managed one. Their decision not to allow simple USB connections for the keyboard/mouse I think is a bad idea (I want to use a keyboard to enter my ripped CD titles, and online play without a keyboard? Forgetaboutit.), thier "pay for broadband" is going to bite them in the ass with Nintendo stating their Ethernet/Modem controllers will work with your own ISP (aka - no fee), and their (admitted - arguable) lack of more than 3 or 4 good, exclusive titles compared to the big N and the PS2 is going to keep hurting them.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
You assume that EVERY XBox owner invests
300 + 4 * 60 + 3 * 50 + 30 + 20 = 740$
in his XBox.
If that's not far off, I don't know what is.
Uh, have you seen the problems the telecomms have been in for the past year?
The cell phone market isn't working very well anymore... most of the companies don't give away phones anymore, because they realized they really can't afford to do this with an 80% annual churn rate (after 1 year 80% of customers drop service).
Most of them are bleeding green all over the floor and don't know how to stop it.
of consoles and thats what gamers go for."
First off, the quality of Microsoft's graphics compared to the other two consoles is debatable at best. I've seen displays where all three consoles are playing next to each other and I see no clear difference between the three in terms of graphical performance.
Secondly, if gamers just wanted graphics then companies would be selling screen savers, not games. Gamers want games (hence the name "gamers"). Historicly, gamers have consistently gone for the console with the better games or the larger library than the one with superior hardware.
- The Atari 2600 instead of the Intellivision or the ColecoVision.
- They bought the NES instead of the Sega Master System.
- They bought the Game Boy instead of the Lynx, Turbo Express, Game Gear, Neo Geo Pocket Color, etc.
- They continued buying NESes after the Sega Genesis came out.
- They bought the Sega Genesis instead of the SNES.
- While the 16-bit SNES and Genesis were duking it out, nobody bought a Neo Geo, a Jaguar, a 3DO, or a CD-I.
- The 32-bit PlayStation outsold the 64-bit N64 (at least outside North America).
- The Dreamcast found itself hard-pressed to compete against the PlayStation and N64.
"frankly the GC has some pretty damn lame games so far except for Luigis Mansion but thats only of interest if you're 15 or under IMO."Then you've obviously never played any GC games (which is consistant with your "Graphics Uber Alles" statement). I have yet to see a game on any of GC's competitors, for example, that has the 4-player fun that Super Smash Bros. Melee has.
Nice try at trolling but you could have tried a lot harder.
Because not everyone *wants* to run Linux or NetBSD? Sure, buying a PS1 for $50 may not appeal to that many /. readers, but the question "Why would anyone want to buy a PS1" has a pretty simple answer: because it's a pretty good console with *loads* of good games (many of which are extremely cheap these days).
If I were a parent with young kids, and didn't have much money, the PS1 would seem like a good plan to me.
Jon
Hey smartguy, I've got all three next gen consoles and let me tell you something: there is a big difference in graphics power, and it affects gameplay.
Take, for example, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, which is ubiquitous. I have played it on GC, PS2 and Xbox, and guess which one plays more smoothly. Xbox, period. It doesn't have the slowdown, it doesn't have the pop-up - both of which are a problem on PS2 and GC. Let's not even make a big deal out of the fact that the Xbox version comes with an extra playable character and an extra level.
Let's look at Spider-Man, which is also out on every damn platform save Dreamcast. It, too, has extra levels that are exclusive to the Xbox version. And guess what? It plays much better on the Xbox, due largely to the fact that the Xbox hardware blows PS2 and GameCube away. No slow-down, no pop-up... guess what consoles have a problem with that?
I like my GameCube too, but you being a Nintendo fanboy doesn't change the fact that the hardware is inferior to the Xbox.
I won't even begin to talk about Xbox (lockups, price, games, controller,...)
Yeah, smartguy. Because you know that you can't win that battle. I've had my Xbox since the week after they were first released. I have played it more than any other console I currently own, save Dreamcast. It has been on 24/7 since I got it. It has never locked up (or, for that matter, given me any problem whatsoever).
The price is in line with PS2 and considering the fact that it does much more than a GameCube or PS2, it's really not so bad. I don't need to buy memory cards for my Xbox, but I sure as shit had to dump out some cash for PS2 and GameCube cards so I could save some games. Total cost of ownership for the Xbox is lower than PS2 and is barely higher than GameCube. And like I said, you're getting more with Xbox.
The games that are coming out for Xbox are just fine. You can bitch and moan all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Xbox had the strongest console launch since consoles were first deployed. Its games were all pretty much top-notch, which is more than can be said for GameCube or PS2. Xbox currently has over 60 games. I own exactly 10 of them, and all of them are pretty great. This includes a number of games that are available for PS2, GameCube or both, but are much better on Xbox (see above). There may be no "killer app" games for Xbox... but there weren't for PS2 after its launch and there sure as shit aren't any for GameCube. Super Monkey Ball is pretty fun, Rogue Squadron is great and Super Smash Brothers Melee will definitely always have a place in my living room, but other than that, nothing great is out now. Saying that Nintendo's 2002 lineup will be fantastic is mostly hypocritical - look at all the good games that will be coming out for Xbox and PS2 as well.
The only part of your argument that has a shred of logic to it is a complaint about the Xbox controller. I personally like the Xbox Controller and the Xbox Controller-S (of which I own 2 of the former and 1 of the latter), but I have large hands. Buy the S if you don't, and if that doesn't suit your fancy, check out of some of the third party controllers. It's important to have something that you'll be comfortable with.
To sum it up: you're a Nintendo fanboy, deluded to forever see their greatness, and that's okay - but it doesn't negate the fact that the other consoles are pretty fucking good as well.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
Look, Microsoft is going to take a bath on the Xbox console. They knew that going in. Doesn't matter anyway. Software is where they will make their money on the console. Plus, unlike both Nintendo and Sony, Microsoft has $40,000,000,000 in the bank. That will sustain a very impressive burn rate trying to get into/take-over this market. Frankly if it wasn't for anti-trust concerns Microsoft could probably buy Sony and Nintendo just to eliminate them as competitors with petty cash.
Of course thus far those are the only 2 title I've seen for the Cube that made me drool... other than that my PS 2 still reigns supreme.
.technomancer
Console manufacturers typically subsidize the cost of the console anywhere from 20-50%, so that it is affordable.
Oh, come on, that's a standard line. Sony and Nintendo don't do this. They sell consoles (wholesale) for roughly what it costs for them to make them. They're not selling them at a huge loss.
Reducing their expectations from 6 to 4 million is part of their plan?
Reducing their price within 1 month of release in Europe is part of their plan?
Having European and Japanese stores cancel XBox orders is part of their plan?
Nonsense.
XBox is a failure, live with it. And there won't be a XBox2 because the few people (like you for example) who still have faith in Microsoft and XBox will be pissed off very much when it officially fails.
P.S.: And I didn't even start to point out how insane it is to compare a multi-billion dollar enterprise like Sony with a tiny startup like Netscape.
This is the console with the best graphics yet, it's far from dead. Online gaming will be available soon and since the XBox has cut it's prices, more and more people are buying it.
most large box retailers of 7 days price match. i know that Best Buy, Circuit City, and Fry's all do. take it back and get the money refunded that you over paid.
;-)
/* Half alive and half dead too, work is for suckers and the sucker is you. - "Half-life" by Local H*/
A good point, except for the fact that PS2 has probably gone longer without a price cut than any console in the last three generations. The E3 price cut was expected and probably wasn't driven by Microsoft - the exact timing, however, almost certainly was.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
me, I won't buy the S, I love the original XBox Controller. You have ten games? Currently I have DOA3, Fuzion Frenzy, Halo and Project Gotham Racing. What do you have and what do you recommend? Yeah I know this may be a little bit off topic, but we're talking consoles here.
Check out the great deals here on one of the best gaming systems ever. Sure the graphics and sound don't compete with most modern titles, but the gameplay can compete.
Emulation is ok, but the real thing is perfect.
Knowing something about the parts market (I DO work for a set-top box company that's working on...alternate solutions...) those boxes cost something in the ballpark of $600-800 to make. Volumes do NOT make it dramatically cheaper to make- the harddrive, Celeron, etc. don't come THAT cheap. Why do you think the set-top box market went belly-up? It's because the stupid companies went with Geodes, etc. because they were CHEAP. Bill of materials costing you only $200 or so.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I think Nintendo may be forced to drop the price of the Gamecube to somewhere between US$130 to US$150 by the time E3 starts.
The reason is simple: who wants to pay US$200 for a dedicated gaming machine when for the same price you get much more powerful consoles that have DVD playback capability and broadband gaming ready to go? Nintendo runs a huge risk of losing a large amount of purchasers to Sony and Microsoft thanks to Sony's price drop and Microsoft's soon-to-announce price drop.
Dead or Alive 3, Project Gotham Racing, Rallisport Challenge, Halo, Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding, SSX Tricky, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, Spider-Man, Silent Hill 2.
Dead or Alive 3 is obviously the fighting game to have on Xbox - are there even any others out?
PGR is pretty good, but it feels a lot like MSR re-hashed for Xbox.
Rallisport Challenge is awesome. It looks amazing and it plays great as well. It's seriously very fun.
Halo is the game to have, though I haven't really gotten far in it - playing it on the hardest level was kinda killing me, and then I got really hooked on...
Amped, which is one of the more addictive titles I've played for the Xbox. Career mode owns me. But I've always really loved snowboarding games.
SSX Tricky is great fun, but the controls can be somewhat awkward (hold A + Y + right trigger + left on the D-pad == cool trick but contorted hand). Amped is the more realistic snowboarding game; SSX Tricky is off the wall with big tricks. Either is a worthy addition to a game library.
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x is very very good. This from a long time Hawk fan, though. It combines Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 with 2. It looks good on the Xbox (better than on Dreamcast), plays well... lots of fun. It's my least favorite in the Tony Hawk series though, and if you're going to get a Hawk game (you should - they're highly addictive and provide TONS of replay value), go with
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 - the addition of the revert is awesome, but that's not what makes this a better game. Everything is different here (except the controls, obviously), and it's a change for the better. Pretty easily my favorite game on Xbox and just about my favorite game ever (shared with GTA3 for PS2). So much to this game (unlocking Darth Maul was good fun)... it's very complete. If you buy one more game, make it this one. Rent it first if you're not a Hawk fan.
Spider-Man is definitely fun. It's got some control issues (mainly that you will spend more time controlling the camera then you ever thought), but other than that, it's cool. The graphics are great (obviously) and it's fun. The first level (warehouse) is infinitely frustrating, however. Don't feel discouraged. Definitely worthy of a rental.
Silent Hill 2 for Xbox improves over the PS2 version (you can now play as Maria as well), and the graphics are better, but only real fans of the series should buy it if they already have it for PS2. This is a Resident Evil-type game - if you like those, it's good. If you don't, it's dumb. It's hardly as wide-appeal as Tony Hawk is.
For reference, I always read reviews of games at http://xbox.ign.com before I buy - I find their reviews to be pretty much spot-on. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Though I never rent video games (I always know that I'm going to want the game and I trust IGN enough to go on their reviews), I would recommend renting before you buy anyway. I simply hate renting games - I like to have them whenever I want to play them, and I hate rushing through a game.
Anyway, if you're going to buy one more game for Xbox, make it THPS3 - even the woman likes playing this game. Everything about it screams "perfection". I don't know how they're going to make Tony Hawk 4 better. It's seriously the most fun I've had on Xbox - you'll want to 100% the game with all the characters (of which there are some two dozen).
Anyway, that's a quick run down of what I've got and what I think of 'em.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
they work, whereas PC games, if they even install, crash after you've got halfway through a level.
Sounds like someone needs to work on their PC skills. Either that or quit trying to run PC games in a Wine session running on a Linux PPC system. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I do play frequently and it has been a long time since I've had any of the kinds of problems that you mention.
The thing is, since everyone uses PCs nowdays, even thinks that makes them an "expert." That couldn't be farther from the truth.
That's right, Microsoft can afford to lose money. They are still losing money on WinCE( PocketPC2002 ) but they NEED to have that sector or MS Windows on the desktop will start losing too.
Remember, all roads lead to Windows.
I still laugh at how Microsoft paid AT&T $5 billion to use WinCE but couldn't get their TV software going so AT&T took the money and went elsewhere.
Of course $40 billion in cash lets them do this time and time again. This will hurt Sony's profits for sure.
IMHO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
The only question remaining for the XBox and Microsoft is whether or not the XBox can be a viable product in only 1 of the 3 major consoles markets. Japan and Europe are over for the XBox. For whatever reason people in those two major markets didn't buy the XBox. And once a product flops as badly as the XBox has in those markets, it is difficult, if not impossible to recover.
Points of fact:
(1) Halo sold a mere 5,000 copies in the most recent week in Japan. The most of any XBox title.
(2) Following its hugely successful launch in Europe, Nintendo is dominating the software charts there and will most likely easily slip into the "PS2 alternative" slot which the XBox had coveted.
(3) Recent data shows the Cube outselling the XBox in the US.
The larger implications of the XBox having failed in both Europe and Japan are that third party game support will soon trickle away. It simply won't make economic sense for game makers to support the XBox when its only market is a small piece of the US pie. Microsoft has managed to bribe/buy out/conjole a tepid welcome for the XBox after its launch and through the next 6 months. But once those game makers see how badly the box is selling, that support will quickly fade away.
The hard truth really is quite simple for Microsoft: the XBox will _never_ succeed with only a portion of the US market. Without 3rd party support the XBox is DEAD.
Microsoft has not done well at all in anything that they have NOT been able to leverage the Windows monopoly. The Xbox will be the same though they could pre-install MS Office and effectively start attacking their OEM's with the Xbox-PC.
Their growth rate is stalling (Linux eats large chunks of server sales) and they are spreading tenticles out all over to find another place to control. Like I said before, they have a VERY bad record outside of the Windows monopoly. IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I could be wrong but i believe 3.5 was really NT 1.0, marketing issues made it 3.5
You're both wrong, the initial release of Windows NT was Windows NT 3.1, and it was called 3.1 because MS didn't want their newest, latest and greatest technology to look like it was lower tech than Windows 3.1 which was currently shipping. If you accept the alternative argument, you might be able to get to version 3.1 if you included OS/2 1.0 and 2.0 in the history of NT since NT was largely derived from the work that MS had done on OS/2.
That is interesting. I believe you, but do you know of any research that says what the actual churn rate it? I know I like to cancel my service within the first year. I always see a better deal. Now, I get a cell phone with no contract so I can jump ship at any time.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
i agree with you except for your statement that there will not be an Xbox2. I disagree. Yes, the Xbox1 was pretty much a failure and was overhyped, and those that bought it now have a sour taste in their mouth...
but remember when internext explorer came out and it was a big piece of poop and netscape kicked it's ass? the problem is that microsoft is such a big giant that it can afford to have losers, because it really cashes in when it makes a winner.
I predict there will definately be an Xbox2, although I don't think it will be succesfull either.
care to wager a Guinness?
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
And Microsofts deep pockets allows them to keep losing money. Do you think they've made any money on WinCE yet? Remember they PAID AT&T to use WinCE in settop boxes to a tune of $5 billion and that was only one deal. The iPaq has only sold 2 million units total.
My issue with the previous posting is that Microsoft uses the monopoly money from MS Windows to fund all these other Window-ized ventures when they should have failed a long time ago. Again, the market is NOT deciding what's going on. Cash is.
By the way, I'm told the games on Xbox look good but don't play very well. The ads show the pretty ones and people don't like them when they get to playing them. PS2 and GameCube have more playable games. Again, Microsoft needs to buy out the PS2 and GameCube developers to make Xbox work.
$40 billion in cash might allow them to do this but I doubt Sony and Nintendo will stand still.
IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Here are the current prices from EB Games
So, why should Nintendo drop their price? The PS2 is currently the same price, but it's also been out a full year longer. That's not reason enough for it to be cheaper, but most people think that way. So, the system to compare price with is the XBox. It's already cheaper, and after the price drop, it'll be the same price.
Nintendo has no real reason to drop their prices, now. The rumored price drop later this year? It'll probably be just in time for Christmas.
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
Since then the Xbos has been outselling the PS2 at about 4:1.
To keep everyone who bought an XBox before the price drop happy, MS are giving away an AU$250 package, 2 games + 1 controller. It took 4 days from sending application to receiving the package.
If I were a parent with young kids, and didn't have much money, the PS1 would seem like a good plan to me.
Exactly! That is what I did. First, I am NOT goin to spend $40 or more on a single game, period. Over the last couple months, I have bought all kinds of PS1 games off ebay for $6 to $20 each (after shipping). Also, I have burned copies of most of them so that my two year old can safely play games while the originals are kept out of reach.
A dingo ate my sig...
Actually, I too, dig the XBox controllers, both the
American and Japanese versions. They are quite
comfortable. Not that I really have a problem with
the PS2 controllers either...
My favorite feature of the XBox controllers though,
is the breakaway cables. It was very considerate of
MS to implement those cables for people who like to
place their boxes in precarious positions. These
should keep people from pulling their boxes off
shelves and breaking them.
Then again, considering how heavy XBoxes are,
maybe the breakaway cables are there to prevent
things like this from happening. I mean, how do
we know MS wasn't doing XBox development in the
Arctic back in '93? =)
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
It's a decent game but it got old, really quickly, like several hours quickly. As of yet, I've seen nothing to compare to the quality of FFX, MGS2, or GTA3. You don't tend to see (as) many different games from Nintendo either. The experimental, groundbreaking games usually come out for PS before anything else, if at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the Cube, I'm fully expecting some games in the future for it, but I won't buy a system now on the chance that games in the future will be good. There's no reason to gamble on something like this. By the time the really good games come out for the cube it'll have dropped in price. If they never materialize, I'll never have to buy it.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
The graphics don't determine whether a console lives or dies.
The Dreamcast was head and shoulders above both the PS1 and the N64 graphically, but they bother handed Sega it's lungs back. Just because something has better graphics, doesn't mean a damn thing. If there were one answer to anything, life would be a whole lot simpler.
Please people, get your heads out of the sand. This is far more complicated than what machine can push pixels faster.
Microsoft didn't get that 40 billion stockpile by being stupid and digging their heels in when the odds were against them. The dumbest thing they could do would be to dump billions into the Xbox if no one's buying it. Unless they all just collectively lose their minds and anything resembling financial sense...
It applies because all these companies try to gouge you anywhere they can.
Suppose, for a moment, that you wanted to buy a game console, use it for a DVD player, do modest game playing.
Now, the price of the PS2 was, until today, $300, same as Xbox. Assume that new games are the same price - $50.
Extra controllers are (were) $35 for each system. So this is relatively negligible.
You need to buy a memory card for a PS2, which is (was) $35 extra.
The DVD remote for Xbox is $30. It's $20 for the PS2.
So right there, you're out an extra $25 if you go the PS2 route.
Suppose you want to play some 4 player games. On Xbox, this is no problem - buy the extra controllers.
On PS2, you need to buy the multitap connector - hey, that's another $35 there. So now you're down $60.
Suppose you want to play some games online. Xbox has broadband built in - so no extra cost there. PS2 will need an adaptor which isn't available yet - and is likely to retail between $35 and $50. We'll assume $35 to give the benefit of the doubt to Sony. So now you've spent $95 more on a PS2 and its accessories than you have the Xbox. I won't get into the benefits of having a hard drive, but if you want to buy one for PS2 (for game upgrades, like I just did for DOA3 on Xbox), you're going to spend even more cash.
If you forego the DVD playing aspect and the 4 player, you still lose on the PS2 because you NEED to buy a memory card to make effective use of the console. This hasn't kept me from buying a PS2 (obviously), and I don't at all regret that I've spent a ton of money on my consoles, but saying that the Xbox's price is outrageous is absurd, simply because when you look at it from all angles, it's cheaper than PS2 (or was, before Sony's price cuts, which Microsoft will have to answer).
It may seem silly, but for the money-conscious gamer, it's important to examine these aspects. Xbox isn't really that expensive when everything is considered.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
That's $15 * 2 + $40 * 2 + $30 * 3 + $15 + $10 = $225, or a $75 profit on the sale of the XBox and attached games and peripherals.
However, MSFT actually loses between $150 and $200 per console, and based on actual purchases of peripherals and games, they would have to sell 10 games to get close to break even.
And they're not selling more than 2-3 titles per box.
They're toast. Flip them over already.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
No. Being an electronics geek and having an electrical engineer for a father, I could probably fix it myself. Being a fanboy would have nothing to do with it, but that's sort of irrelevant when you consider that I'm not a fanboy of any particular console. I just find it irritating when persons argue out of complete ignorance.
Now... he still can't, because he was complaining of lockups, not hardware failure. Xbox != Windows. Sure, some games will probably cause the console to freeze - that's the game, not the console. I personally have never had that problem, and I haven't read of anything online either. Google didn't have anything immediately obvious.
As for this being a "well documented problem" - maybe you should have bought the extended warranty? If it was so well documented, why are you caught with your pants around your ankles with a dead Xbox? I'm sorry that it happened to you, and it sucks for sure, and I agree that it shouldn't happen... but that doesn't change the fact that it did. If it's so well documented, I would think you would have been proactive in ensuring that you were covered should the problem happen with yours.
As an aside, you may want to try taking it back to the store where you bought it and demanding an exchange. I don't care what the store policies are - they should exchange that for you. Be polite but firm - you purchased a defective Xbox from them and you need it replaced.
Good luck, and I hope that, in the end, you aren't stuck with a dead Xbox.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
Right now they can't even keep the GameCube on the shelves in Europe or Japan, and are barely able to keep up with demand in the US.
Remember, they have the sweet spot. Their target audience is women and kids, both of which are major growth sectors, and the ports are flying off the shelves at the game dev shops for their machine. Plus they actually make money on each GameCube they sell, unlike PS2 or xBox.
With hurt like that, who needs pain?
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Loss leading. Razor blade companies seems to be the canonical example.
Vermifax
Logout
I just got Oddworld's Munchs Oddyssey and it's pretty good to. It sure is better than all the Mario's I played.
Halo is good but I just have a hard time playing FPS games on a console.
My next buy will probably be Silent Hill 2 and then maybe Amped or THPS3
Here's my response. It says everything I want to say, eloquently.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Idiot. It's a press release.
The link was to moneycentral. You can find the same article at Yahoo!, CBS Marketwatch, ClearStation and any other financial news site you care to read.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Competition would be great in the gaming/console market. I only hope Microsoft's anti-competition nature don't "pull a Netscape" on the PS2 and/or GameCube.
IMHO, they should not be allowed to buy gaming companies and not be allowed exclusive deals with gaming developers. There are many other things they should not be allowed to do because they are a monopoly at the OS level and should only be allowed to compete and not kill competition.
I just don't think they've EVER actually competed. It's always been that they put everything into preventing competition....
If what you say is true, this year will be an interesting one for Sony and Nintendo...
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
but remember when internext explorer came out and it was a big piece of poop and netscape kicked it's ass? the problem is that microsoft is such a big giant that it can afford to have losers, because it really cashes in when it makes a winner.
Well that's very different, because as you said, those who bought it have a sour taste in their mouth and would be even more pissed off if they would have to put up several hundred dollars for the next version.
XBox can't be given away for free, XBox can't be bundled with Windows or PCs and Sony is no small startup. That's why any comparison to IE is a bit far off.
I predict there will definately be an Xbox2, although I don't think it will be succesfull either.
That would be a pretty dumb move by MS because XBox2 would be doomed from the start. But of course MS has done stupid things in the past and will do stupid things in the future, so I'd say it's possible, though unlikely that there will be a XBox2.
I never claimed that.
I said you have faith in the XBox as a platform by saying that "it's part of MS' plan"
There are certain actions that must be taken to ensure investors that the company has not lost its marbles... that is why they reduced their expectations in the European and Japanese markets, and overall. The plan is completely logical in analysis (long run: MS becomes a monopoly in the console market), but not logical at all in the eye of business (short run: losing money endlessly, and rather unethical business practices).
Eeek. XBox is a typical short-term project. Otherwise they wouldn't have chosen an off-the-shelf PC design and would have actually done some development to produce a platform that can be produced economically and can live longer.
No, XBox is a REACTION to the threat the PS2 poses and the failure of Dreamcast which should have brought WinCE into the livingrooms.
And it is an utter failure because a) they can't bundle it with PCs and Windows b) they can't give it away for free and c) Sony is no small internet-startup company.
XBox is dead, end of story.
Isn't there something missing from the MSN report? Something along the lines of "MSN Money is a Microsoft service"? Or perhaps "this article is a paid advertisement"? Something, at least, to mention that Microsoft have their own news site as well.
Of course, here in Australia, we haven't seen the half of it yet. Xbox sales were slow, Microsoft announced a 40% price drop, Xbox has outsold Playstation 2 fairly easily for two weeks. The Beeb was reporting a similar phenomenon in Europe. Then again, Nintendo are reporting "record-breaking" pre-orders for Gamecube - the machine gets released this Friday - and promised a price drop of nearly 25%. We'll have to wait and see how that pans out.
None of this is helping Xbox in Japan, where there is no price decrease in effect - and where Xbox is being outsold by just about everything, including Dreamcast, and where things would have been disastrous without Dead Or Alive 3. Also, Xbox is (apparently) starting to fall behind Gamecube in the States, in terms of sales figures and thus installed base. Expect announcements sooner rather than later.
Attack its weak point for massive damage!
Meanwhile, can anyone confirm that the PS2 price will be dropping by a third here? I wouldn't mind picking one up for A$320.
Apparently it's the sound that's underpowered. A Nintendo-freak friend of mine is really upset that the 'Cube won't do Dolby 5.1. I've only got Pro-Logic so I don't mind.
Do you understand the concepts console manufacturers produce their goods with? If they were losing X dollars per console (which I know is not going to be more than 100$ per console) at the initial release, for every four games per console sold recouped those losses nicely, anything beyond that recoup was profit. Which is exactly as I explained it in Sony's case, the losses incurred in the first run of consoles was recouped by any games that became even remotely popular. If Sony say sold four games for every PS2 sold initially they were not losing any money when you calculate net profits and losses. Microsoft dropping the price is hoping to sell more units to increase demand for the games which let them recoup the losses taken from production of the consoles. Dropping the price a hundred bucks doesn't mean they are taking an extra hundred dollar loss. If the initial run had losses of 50$ per console and they recouped that from sales of games the second production run is naturally going to be cheaper due to an increased availability of components which drops the unit price. If this drop in unit cost is below what they are selling the units on shelves for they can drop the price a hundred bucks and maintain their 50$/unit loss and recoup that by selling more games (because more units are in people's homes). The goal of a console maker following the licensing scheme first widely practiced by Nintendo with the NES (which is what we're talking about) aims to get consoles into as many living rooms as possible despite the cost to the company. Once these games are in homes the games which cost the company nothing to develope make them beaucoup cash to recoup their losses. Nintendo and Sony would not be in business if this model did not work out well.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
PS2 $199
XBox $199
PS1 $49
Also Micro$oft has dropped the price on many of the accessories... finally. Still, the only reason to buy an XBox though is for Halo. So, if you've beat Halo and are bored with it, the XBox is worthless.
-jz
SSB is a button mashing game, that meaning it can be fun, but like most nintendo party games, does not take much skill.
i dont find it much fun when you are playing by yourself, but more interesting when you play with others.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.