Sun Works to Converge Linux and Solaris

Jucius Maximus writes "A new change has appeared in Sun's strategy as reported by CNET. Instead of dismissing Linux as inferior, it is now trying to integrate elements of Linux into Solaris for easier porting of applications. This looks like a step in the right direction for Linux acceptance in the professional server market."

Comments

Re:GPL

[the red pen]

Sun is making sure that Linux API's are available on Solaris. It is certainly possible to do this without having to GPL all or any of the code base.

They are doing this so that Linux applications will port trivially to Solaris. This isn't an admission that Linux is as good as Solaris, but just that it's more popular for developers.

I think the reason's are different

[aralin]

I'm software engineer, I have both solaris and linux workstations on my desk and to be honest, I prefer to work on my linux and run my database and hard computations on my Ultra-1. Why? Well, Solaris sucks compared to Linux in the ease of use and ability to script your work easy, man pages, utilities, ... and many more aspects. It might be superior OS in matter of stability or effectiveness to use the SPARC platform, but ...

So they did the logical step. Looked in what is Linux better and try to incorporate these things in Solaris. I say, way to go. But its not to increase Linux's acceptance, really :)

Re:I think the reason's are different

[aralin]

You know, in large IT company you usually do not decide over what you have installed on your workstations. Said that, I'm actually using Gnome on Solaris (looked best for me) and I don't really criticise the window interface. CDE would be fine for me, since all I do is open several shell windows anyway and mozilla in one screen.

The problems are more in the utilities that are missing some of the more useful switches, man pages that lack behind the linux ones usually, problems with handling symlinks and hardlinks until 2.8 and other minor things that just get on your nerves with time.

Of course, I can use the GNU utilities, but I cannot write a script using them, because I cannot rely on customer having them installed so I just have to deal with the solaris's crappy ones anyway... do you get the point?

Competition with HP and IBM

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

This is at least as much about Linux as it is about competing with IBM and HP. IBM released AIX 5L where the L stands for Linux - they tried to re-implement as much of the linux environment as possible in the AIX kernel and include a bunch of GPL utilities. HP has got a linux porting environment or something like that which is mostly a port of glibc and headers plus utilities to HP-UX 11i. All three vendors have the same goal, to keep their proprietary unix from being completely replaced by linux.

Hm...

[Wakko Warner]

IBM did this with AIX a year or so ago, for 5L. You can (theoretically) compile any Linux application on AIX without any source code modification, and 5L ships with tons of Linux/GNU tools now, a lot of which are installed by default. Linux is suddenly (and rather quickly) becoming more than just a buzzword in the Real World (i.e. not just Internet companies.)

- A.P.

Sun not trying to help Linux

[Gerdts]

This looks like a step in the right direction for Linux acceptance in the professional server market.

This is not what Sun is intending to do. They realize that there are a lot more people out there that are writing code for Linux and making it a desirable OS to use than there are doing the same for Solaris. By making it easier to port from Linux to Solaris, Sun is trying to make it easier for developers to keep Solaris as a top tier platform.

For instance, if you have installed OpenSSH on Solaris, you will have been forced to look into the various methods for getting /dev/urandom or a suitable replacement. After I brought this issue up and reminded Sun that they were trying to get to a Linux-compatible API, they backported their Solaris 9 /dev/urandom to Solaris 8 with patch 112438-01. Imagine my shock that Sun actually implemented one of my RFE's.

Sorry, but Linux *IS* inferior...

[I'm Spartacus!]

Here's the configuration for our largest server:

HOSTNAME: grande, OS: SOLARIS 5.8, MACHINE TYPE: E6500 , USER: Server
MEMORY: 28GB, SWAP: 9GB, PROCESSORS: 28 400MHZ, DISK: Fibre Channel Raid 136GB

Linux can't come close to this kind of setup, and I doubt it will anywhere in the near future. Now admittedly, Linux is hurting Sun in a big way. Sun hardware is damn expensive. But we need that kind of hardware here in our shop, and Linux simply won't cut it.

Sun is doing this because Linux is hurting them on low end hardware, not because Linux is in any way better than Solaris for anything other than skinning your desktop.

Reverse Strategy

[4of12]

if they integrate GPL code fron Linux into their OS

Instead of integrating Linux code into Solaris, what Sun needs to do, rather, is to implement some of the nicer features and interfaces of Solaris into the Linux kernel, making Linux look more like Solaris.

I mean, it already does in a lot of ways and, to be sure, they'll have to contend with differences of opinion from the benevolent dictators that control the Linux kernel (eg, POSIX threads debate), glibc, etc.

But it's in Sun's best interest to pave a smooth superhighway upgrade path from Linux to Solaris for users that grow beyond their x86 hardware.

Also, with their ownership of Cobalt, they could really make a pressing low end solution of Java on Linux/x86 to build flavored servers using open source interfaces without tying clients into a OurOneSizeFitsAllYourNeeds scheme. Then, customers wanting more complex business logic could opt for slicker building environment that Sun could sell.

The other hardware route that Sun could take is to build an x86 system with the hardware reliability that has been lacking, especially compared to SPARC systems. Linux gives you a UNIX OS with plenty of nines, there's no excuse for the hardware to crap out as much as it does, especially for servers.

Re:Reverse Strategy

[Andrewkov]

But it's in Sun's best interest to pave a smooth superhighway upgrade path from Linux to Solaris for users that grow beyond their x86 hardware

Well said, I think this is the reasoning behind the move. Let "newbies" migrate their servers from Windows to Linux (hey, it's cheap), then once they outgrow their x86 box it will be easy to move to Sun hardware without porting their business application or whatever it is their running. Brilliant idea! I guess Sun realises it is better to have people using Linux than Windows, since they are more likely to move to Sun from Linux than they are from Windows. Linux makes a good intermediate step.

Re:Reverse Strategy

[4of12]

How would adding cool Solaris features to Linux help Sun:

1. migrate more users from Linux to Solaris? Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
2. sell more Sparc servers? The Solaris features added to Linux would be GPL and quickly ported to x86 Linux, undercutting Sparc server sales.

Good questions, and I'm not sure the answers are as comforting as you would like. But here goes.

It wouldn't actively cause migration from Linux to Solaris, but when the time comes to upgrade from a low cost Linux solution to something bigger and better, will it be Sun, HPaq, IBM, SGI? If Solaris is most compatible, then that choice will be Sun. Of course users will drink free milk as long as they can, but someday they'll need more milk than the free cows can give. The key is to insure that low end cheap server market goes into the UNIX world on a upgrade path that leads to you rather than your competitors.

Low end SPARC hardware sales are a losing proposition at this point in time. Sun has reasonably good high end offerings, but in the low end they're offering Solaris/SPARC vs either Wintel or Lintel. Lintel is the ultimate lowest cost option and, while it eats the lunch of low- end SPARC, that lunch was going to be eaten anyway by either Wintel or Lintel. At least the Linux box keeps users in the UNIX world where Sun has a lot of software experience to offer. Logically, you want the cost of rewriting business application logic transitioning from Linux to Solaris to be small. Also, 64-way Solaris/SPARC machines give those UNIX users at the low end a scalable upgrade path that is missing from the Wintel world.

Granted, it's harder to make money where much of what was previously offered is becoming commoditized, but it's an irresistable force that the market is demanding.

Ride that wave and anticipate where it's going instead of trying to stop it.

Re:Sun

[nakhla]

It's fast and stable, and yet it sucks? What more could you want? Uhhh, hello! CDE is NOT Solaris. It's merely a front-end, much like Gnome, KDE, et al are front-ends. You can put Gnome on Solaris and suddenly it's just as shiny as Linux. Moron.

Playing nice to hurt Microsoft.

[jellomizer]

This move is good for Linux, is good for Sun, its good for IBM it good for HP and it is Bad for Microsoft. When you try to talk to middle managment about using Unix systems they come up with the excuse that there is little software for that platform. And Comerical Developers will more likely program for MS Stuff becuase that is where the market share is, ms is reported to have between 30-45% Marketshare), Now Add the big UNIX guys Combined make up about 50% of the market share all start playing nice with each other, Sure they are compeating against each other but they try to make a better product the the other guy, And agreeing on a Linux format API. Why Linux because Linux is not owned by any company so you are not giving one company a head up on the other. With a simular API style it is easier for Comerical Programmer to make programs for the different platforms so say I made FooBar Server program on my Linux box that the source code can port super easy to a Solaris, HPUX, AIX box it a good thing because my FooBar Server can be accessed on 50% of the servers.

Consumers get the benefit because there are more and cheaper programs available for their Platform. And they can choos the type of *X platform they want to use.

The UNIX companies get extra insurence that there is a chance that they can get repeat business form there Customers. And have the advantage of more software for their platform.

Smaller Developers and Support personal get the advantage of easy comunication between the different Unix systems.

But it will hurt the following people.
Microsoft. Becuase they are being "more" seporated from the curent standards. And being shunned my more third party developers.

Windows only programers. But it is there fault for not following the real standards. And opening there mind into more cross platform development.

Re:Why maintain all that SysV cruft?

[irix]

if Sun were to replace all possible SysV components in Solaris with their GNU equivalents

It would cause chaos. Come on, they just can't ship Solaris 9 and replace the Sun tar with the GNU tar. I'll give you that GNU tar is way better than the one Sun ships (the GNU tar comes first in my $PATH), but people have written software (Solaris package install scripts, for example) expecting the Sun tar to be there and take a certain set of arguments. Maybe tar is a bad example, but you get the idea.

Sun is doing the smart thing by gradually switching things over. They have some GNU stuff available in the core install, and some GNU stuff available on a second CD. I now can write software for Solaris assuming Perl is installed, for example.

This will improve slowly, over time.