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World's First Hydrogen Fuel Cell Powered Island
Albanach writes "According to this article in The Herald Newspaper, the island of Islay, on the West coast of Scotland is set to become the world's first Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered island. Scientests at Napier University wish to use the existing Wave Power Station to treat sea water and store the resulting hydrogen in fuel cells. The first plan is to power a building, moving on to powering the entire island in a decade."
Perhaps the wave-power station is used to electrolyze water into H and O...
This is bullshit. Cuba has been hydrogen-fuel-cell powered for decades.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
"Powered Island" != "mobile island which moves because of Hydrogen Power".
but this is just one more reason to drink scotch from Islay.
It's not only delicious, but environmentally friendly too!
So where's my flying car. I'm sick of these antique wheels.
Won't anyone think about the rotation of the Earth?
I have been pwned because my
I can just see it now, a little island scooting around the atlantic using sea water as fuel. Hehe.
Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
A lump of rock off the scottish coast? I expect my fat sister on a exercise bike could generate enough power for the 3 sad-bastards that live there.
She can't take much more o' that Cap'n!
why not use the power from the wave station to drive a laser which in turn will heat a boiler that can be used to run a turbine which will generate electricity to separate hydrogen from the sea-water?
i love the efficiency of green power. because it's so free, we can waste a lot more.
For example, the May issue of Wired magazine had an article entitled Farming EU's Windy Coastlines about using wind turbines planted off the coast of Europe to generate power, some the size of the wing span of a 747. I'd like to see a self sufficient power grid built using this technology. Unlike many other renewable resources, this faces little opposition. Used effectively, it would be far cheaper than hydrogen.
This is a good step; any action that diminishes the powers of the evil oil empires is what I would call a good one. Perhaps it will even lead to more developement of hydrogen powered fuel cells and the like.
So they're using a completely renuable resource, namely wave power, to separate sea water into O2 and (2) H2.
This is a great idea for any region with significant ocean frontage. Unfortunately, it is only a great idea in such locations. We can't fuel the US gas glutton SUVs via this method, there just isn't enough ocean frontage for all the soccer-moms.
Kudos to a truly self-powered island!
"You worthless post!"
-Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
I've been hearing about hydrogen fuel cells for so long now, I'm glad to finally see some progress. What I've heard, though, about it is that "battery-ifying" the hydrogen (turning it into fuel cells) makes up for the pollution your saving by using the fuel cells. Is this still the case, does anyone know? Or is it actually environmentally friendly now from creation to use?
P.S. What's been up with Slashdot lately? It's been really weird.
I understand that life's not fair, just why is it never unfair in my favor?
Now we will have people fighting more than ever for water and Uncle Sam : *cough cough* All your oceans are belong to me *cough cough*. China : Fuck that small country we want all the water around it and India is going to be a regional superpower *cough* and United States of America will have a new state Antarctica...sheesh am i getting unreal?
:(.
All your water are still belong to us
Else, why would they have so many distilleries on that little piece of land?
I'm supposed to use electricity generating wave turbines to crack water to generate hydrogen so that I can use the hydrogen to produce electricity?
Sounds like a Rube Goldberg method!
Just skip the electrolysis and fuel cells and store the electricity made from the wave turbines in batteries (for cars and such) and feed it into the grid (like they already do).
Other than the obvious live laboratory for the fuel cells which is great, I fail to see how this system will save energy since there is loss any time you convert energy (waves --> electricity --> hydrogen --> electricity).
How long will it take before a major oil company interferes to the point where the project ceases? Alternative fuels threaten the very existance of the main oil players, and based on previous topics posted to /. (and many other sites), they could find themselves facing a rather forceful opposition.
(for some reason, I equate the oil companies with the record companies. I'm not sure why, perhaps it's their business model or approach to business...)
--
Disclaimer: All comments were made by randomly mashing my forehead against the keyboard - they do not represent the true opinions of myself, my employer, or the garden gnome sitting next to me.
of getting some hydrogen! Surely it would be more efficient to use the electricity from the wave power and send it to people's homes rather than using it to electrolyse the water into hydrogen, then burning the hydrogen?
Video Game cheats, hints a
Once the hydrogen fuel cell is complete, my plan for world domination will be one step closer to completion! I must only get my secret island stronghold fully operational, then kick off all the islanders, and I can blackmail the United Nations for... 5 BILLION DOLLARS! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
OK. Let's understand what they're doing.
1: Seawater is made out of Hydrogen and Oxygen (with lots of energy in the bonds)
2: Solar panels at the sea locations provide the energy, albeit slowly, to electrolyze the water to the gaseous components. H 2 and O2.
3: The H2 is stored until used in Hydrogen Fuel cells. Combining of Hydrogen gas, Oxygen gas and heat give lots of heat. This turns turbines.
First problem. The solar cells are way innefficent. I'm guessing about 10% (10% of sun is turned into usable electric current). Electrolysis would be too slow, not to mention how expensive even 1 solar panel is. However, I've heard of a man at Purdue who has a prototype of a solar panel that is efficent to 35%. Problem is it's too expensive to make, and it takes more energy to make it than you can gather in it's whole lifetime.
Second problem: All that Hydrogen gas has to be stored somewhere, and in air-tight containers. The only feasible way I can see it being stored is in liquid or metal form. Those takes nasty pressures and tempatures. Gasoline is already fairly dense and has a good energy density.
Third problem: You still lose a lot of energy in turning the turbines.
Overall, I'd HATE to see how inefficent it really is. OH well. BTW, isthis sponsored by any eco-freaks?
I'm looking at the threashhold, and there's no comments posted above 2. There's also seemingly no moderation. Would a Editor mention if they know if anything's going on?
josh crawley -
I think if you re-read the original article you will see that hydrolysis is powered by wave energy, you know, ocean waves, not light waves.
Also, may I point you at a simple explanation of how fuel cells work? It has this cool animated gif, displaying the process. Note: no turbines.
There is this really cool tool on the web, called google, it is a search engine. You can use it to look things up, before you post stuff, preventing you from looking like a complete dope. You should try it out!
Just curious.
first rhode island sucks post
We all know that when we use hydrogen power the waste is water vapor.
:)
Won't all this vapor make the climate much wetter causing it to rain more and so on?
Plus since from what I've been told the vapor comes from the hydrogen mixing with oxygen in the air. Won't this also lower the oxygen content of the air?
Please tell me I'm completely off my rocker.
Or better yet explain why
Thank you.
I know I'm going to hell, I'm just trying to get good seats.
I know I'm volatile and prone to inflammability after downing a few measures of Lagavulin!
According to the article, the plant produces 500 kilowatts.
Btw, even if these answers aren't so great, it's still a cool experiment - but you have to cite more details than the article does to reasonably brag that you'd save the world except that the evil oil companies won't let you. :(
Someone joked "Won't anyone think about the rotation of the Earth?"
The question has a much more serious ramification than the jokester may have realized:
The Earth is slowing down and will eventually break this system.
The Moon ya see is creating these things called tides that this generation plant is at least partially dependent upon.
The friction of the water being drug across the surface of the Earth by the moon is slowing decelerating the earth. Eventually the Moon will become geosynchronous with the Earth, and the lunar tides will cease.
If lunar tides cease to exist, ocean temperatures will likely equalize a little (less water movement at all), and so winds will become less intense. Lower wind speeds mean lower waves (wind and tides are the major causes of waves).
This may not really be the long term soution they think it is.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Well, their whiskey is clearly too good to use for fuel...
Mats
How do you "win" land in war?
Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."
Even if this was true, it is still not a valid reason to deny a homeland from them.
Can anyone picture the Jews...
Easily.
Now, go away you fucking racist pro-Israel nazi.
How appropriate that my favorite C2H5OH, made by Laphroaig on Islay, will one day be manufactured entirely using H.
::Colz Grigor // I'll take donations of it, too!
How do you "win" land in war?
Haven't you ever played Risk?
I had a lot of pizza tonight and I think I could power that island with methane right about now.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
is this sponsored by any eco-freaks?
Are you one of those fake readers created by US oil companies?
Can't be less efficient than drilling oil in some far off country like the USA and shipping it 3000 miles to be used...
Now, go away you fucking racist pro-Israel nazi.
As much as I hate joining an offtopic thread, and as sickening as that guy's rant is, I do feel compelled to point out that this rant's racist nature stems not from its being pro-Israel but from its being anti-Arab.
In 26 years I'll be drinking enviroment friendly Lagavulin whiskey
:)
.. to try this.
Actually, I was going to have a play with it to make a self-running radio transmitter stuck up a tree.
Either way, check out this site http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/hydrogen.htm - they sell hydrogen fuel cells and have some information on them.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
So, will we be seeing oygenated whiskey as Islay's Next Big Thing? It could conceivably slow or prevent the loss of brain cells. It's a pity they're not going to produce Helium (squeak)...
(this is not a
Hey, there are priorities in life :-)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
...that Islay is pronounced eye-la, not eye-lay.
I beleive the major factor in generating waves is wind, not tides. Tides likely complicated the design of the wave powered generator.
The world's finest whiskies come from this little tiny island! Who does NOT know where it is? (At least, somebody with a small interest in whisky?)
:-)
Bowmore, Laphroiagh, Ardbeg, Lagavulin, Port Ellen, Bruichladdich, Caol Ila and Bunnahabhain -- eight distilleries on this island, each one of them producing a fantastic malt. (Though my favorite right now is a 17yo Ardbeg.)
Sadly though, some of these stills have been dozed...
Seriously, what do they need hydrogen for? They have plenty of fuel, just tap from the stills
The Dinorwig pump storage station in Wales.
I'd guess that hyrdogen cells have an even faster startup time than the claimed 12 seconds of Dinorwig though
Mmmmm...hydrogen powered Laphroaig!
Ok. I love the idea of using hydrogen as the storage medium for the wave-generated electricity.
What I don't like is the idea that they are gonna bottle the hydrogen, and make people go pick it up.
Assuming that everyone already has a gas pipeline to the local natural gas supplier, they could simply pipe the hydrogen to the gas supplier, which would then pump the hydrogen to the island homes and buildings.
I suppose the gas company could only switch segments of the population over by area. One area would have to switch to hydrogen from gas all at once.
Damn. We need fuel cells that can take either natural gas or hydrogen before this will be feasible. Once everyone can use either gas or hydrogen, the switch over to pure hydrogen can be accomplished.
Perhaps the most important and certainly the "cleanest" storage method for H2.
Sodium Borohydride (soap).
Chrysler even made a minivan that uses it. It acts as the H2 storage medium and is easily 're-energized'. Think about it. No explosive H2 to mess with. You get in a wreck and the only thing that leaks out is soap and water. Clean streets!
Why not do one even better? If there was a way to safely store H2 in a medium that required no special containers or pressurization, would you buy it? Chrysler hopes so. Check this out. If I had a way to refuel it, I would already have one.
It took eighteen years to get one on-line in the US... what's so bad about 20?
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
/. Groupthink:
"Don't block my porn, it's my right to choose what I look at - nobody should have the right to choose what I should look at unless it's me!"
"SUV's are evil, nobody should have the right to choose what they drive unless it's environmentally friendly enough for me!"
Freedom to choose porn = good, freedom to choose vehicle = bad.
Wow, I'm having visions of people driving cars like that one in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with all the bubbles...
If anybody is interested in this kind of tech for doit yourself applications, I found this nifty guide
build you own fuels cell at homepower mag.
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
... Iceland? I thought they were going to be first.
Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
You are using "Laser Beam" technology, after all.
A lot of the discussion has been around the production of the hydrogen for the fuel cells. An interesting side note: California Solar Center has a weekly new clipping service that, this week, has this article about scientists discovering huge, natural stores of H2 gas. From the article:
He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
excerpt, from robin williamson's
"rab's last wollen testament":
Water is the strong stuff
It carries whales and ships
But water is the wrong stuff
Don't let it get past your lips
It rots your books
It wets your suits
Puts aches in all your bones
Dilute the stuff with whisky
Aye, or leave it well alone
I don't understand why wave power is touted as an eco-friendly power source. If anything, it is worse than gas or nuclear.
In order to provide a decent amount of power it is necessary to essentially pave a large section of the coastline - one of the most ecologically sensitive habitats around!
The most ecologically sound solution would be to put four high-efficiency nuclear plants in Siberia that do nothing but produce hydrogen. The hydrogen could then be used to power cars and contribute to the power grid. Bury the nuclear residue in the wasteland and leave the coast to the fishies.
Cheers,
Colin Benning, EIT
Energon cubes! :P
Yeesh...
I read somewhere (can't remmember the source) that if you use too much tidal energy, the moon will slowly crash into the earth! and i do NOT want that to happen...
Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
The point is, they are working on the implementation of this system now. This is called real-world research. At some point in the future, producing hydrogen WILL become cost effective. This project, and hundreds of others, will help give data on reliability of equipment, and storage issues. Not to mention the fact that they will already be set to take advantage of the cheaper sources of hydrogen, when they come into being.
In short, just because it's expensive now doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. By that reasoning, computers wouldn't have ever developed, as they were only marginally faster than a human working the same problems at first.
Often in Error, Never in Doubt.
Get off the Stepford Administration.
..
... and the world will be a better place
for you...
for me...
ahhhhhh....
hydrogen is explosive it reacts very violently
the entire island might explode
and nothing exposes the ignorance of the anti-nuke morons like the fact that coal mining releases more radiation into the environment in 1 year than all the nuke power plants ever have...
Hydrogen is, imho, the only hope we have for the survival of western civilization. We simply cannot continue to rely on third world countries to supply our energy needs. 9/11's will continue until we become self sufficient and stop "exploiting" the third world nations. (sarcasm in that)
mje0w!!!1!
This event, if it takes a whole decade, will be shadowed by the fact that Toyota plans to have a hydrogen fuel cell SUV available in Japan and the US by 2010.
Sorry Scotland.
I like the thought of converting sunlight into energy using solar panels on roof tops. And maybe combine that with this wave energy and run all our vehicles off electric/hydrogen engines. You could have a small hydrogen generators in everyone's car that just hooks into their home. I think electromagnetic energy is far more powerful than what you get from combusting oxygen and hydrogen, but hydrogen engines might be more efficient. We just got to think up new efficient ways to transport electricity and ourselves.
For vehicles I like the idea of storing mechanical energy, like a flywheel braking system. If we had a few flywheels to store the energy when we stop we could use those flywheels for quick acceleration and the eletric/hydrogen engine to keep the vehicle in motion. Combining that with solar panels and wind power generators on the car and the thing should be able to run for at least few hundred miles with a tank of water.
But if you think about it. All the energy on Earth came from the Sun. It seems only natural that we learn how to harness that energy to coexist with our environment: a hunk of rock with lots of water orbitting a giant ball emitting photons. Using nonrenewable living or dead organisms for energy is almost parasitic and certainly not a permanent solution. Lets hurry up and find a permanent one, because I'd really like to get on with my work.
If there was any desire on the part of Israel for peace, they would have given back the land they stole in the '48 and '67 wars. It is not stealing just because the UN, every country in the Western world, and even other Jews call it stealing, but because Israel signed this little contract called the "Fourth Geneva Convention," you may have heard of it. Land gained by war is inadmissable and must be returned as soon as the conflict is over.
Furthermore, if there was a desire for peace, they would have valued it in the 90s when they had it. Yes that's right, after Oslo and prior to the second uprising there was a period when there were only 3 Palestinian terrorist attacks in more than a year. How did the Jews say thank you to the Palestinians for quelling the extremism among their ranks? The assassination of 13 Palestinians (assassination is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention, to which Israel is signatory). Of course, we are also talking about a country where the soldiers shoot children with tumblers just for throwing stones.
Also, let's ask ourselves, which country in the region has actually fired upon US soldiers and sunk one of our ships (prior to the Gulf War)? You guessed it, Israel (we thanked them by selling them more weapons so they could do it again.) In the beginning of the 1967 war, the Israeli army shot and sunk one of our ships, so as to prevent it from reporting intelligence information about the Egyptian army and fleet movements. The reason behind this is because Epypt's air force was on the ground and two-thirds of their army was in Yemen. They were in no position to be the aggressor in a conflict with the Israelis, contrary to what revionist historians will tell you.
Then there is the Israeli nuclear bomb. That's correct; the only country in the region to have a nuclear weapon, and they've gone to nuclear alert three times already. The most interesting part of this story, however, is that the bomb was made with materials stolen from US uranium mines and european reactors, by Israeli intelligence agents. Then, when confronted with the possibility of UN investigations, they demanded that they would not allow the plant to be investigated unless the US agree to sell weapons to them. Now you know where Saddam Hussein got his biggest trick; could you imagine if he demanded to be sold weapons to!?
I'm not defending terrorism, but I'm not going to blindly endorse a country whose soldiers shoot children, and whose signature means nothing. Ariel Sharon is no man of peace, and the recent resolution by Likud that they will never give back any land to the Palestinians is proof that there is no serious desire for peace on either side, especially when you have a country who refuses outsiders to see what it is that they're doing (what are they hiding?).