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The Case for the Empire
fReNeTiK writes "In this amusingly controversial article over at the weekly standard's web site, we get to hear an opinion not often heard among the hordes of Star Wars fanatics out there: The rebel alliance are actually "... an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back." An entertaining read which will surely spark flame wars of epic proportions." Reader kaypro submits an MSNBC story examining the
science of Star Wars. And
Ant notes that the
Clones DVD will be out earlier than expected.
How can the Rebels be called anarchic if they are primarily people with Royal titles trying their best to establish the "Old Republic".
Besides that though, the Empire kills people at will, and they impose Draconian smuggling laws which only serve to prop up Hut gangsters.
As tiresome as a republics claims to a monopoly on 'good' can be (and lord knows we see enough of that), the only other alternative at the time is a group that claims a monopoly on 'evil', which can't possibly be any better.
Like it or not, he does put some of the points across in a clear, lucid manner. I must admit, a quarter of the way into the article sees of doubt were already being sowed into my idea of who the "good guys" are.
Of course, some points he makes about the rebel only havings plots, and no clue about what to do once the empire is decimated doesn't really hold water - i'm sure lucas would have made more installments to handle that case, but then again it probably wouldn't make for good viewing. It's a man's fantasy after all, for god's sake!
Maybe it's just a case of this guy being able to argue his way convincingly out of anything. Sure did convince me.
The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
Of course, they would probably be handed to the Empire after several centuries anyway...
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I'm betting he's waiting until after episode 3, to add what would be serious prequel spoilers to the second half of the "hexology", or whatever the term is ("hextet"?), since I seriously doubt it's going to be a nonology anymore.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
It's funny how many parallels one could draw between the US and The Empire, although obviously George Lucas intended them to be the Nazis: "Stormtroopers", all-human (as the article points out) etc.
Also bear in mind that the examples I list below consist mainly of events that happened well after the films were made, so I am not really saying that GL even subconsciously made the Empire be a reflection of the USA.
US/Empire Parallels:
* Imperial treatment of captured rebels, e.g. Leia: Camp X-Ray.
* Battle on Endor: This is so Vietnam, the Imperials get creamed by the indiginous population because they know the land better, even if they have cruder weaponry.
* Destruction of Aldaraan: Nagasaki, Hiroshima. Large Explosion to cause terror against innocent civilians.
* Battle on Hoth: Seek out the rebels/terrorists in those caves/those ice-tunnels and wipe them out- all of them.
* Destruction of Death Star: WTC. Don't flame me for this, I am not trivializing this horrific tragedy or siding with the terrorists, but both the Death Star and the WTC were symbols of the supremacy of the US/the Empire.
graspee
Flame/downmod away; I am just trying to start a thread here. If people reply, even if they tell me why I am wrong, it will be interesting...
This gentleman has made what is, on the surface, a reasonably sound argument, and one that will no doubt appeal to many on this site. Yes, it is true that the Empire maintained law and order. Yes it is true that the Alliance to Restore the Republic was in rebellion against the technically legitimate government.
However, the coming to power of this government must be examined. It's head, former Senator Palpatine, engineered several diplomatic crisis and instigated a full-scale war in order to achieve dictatorial powers. He dabbled in the Sith teachings, long abhorred by the galactic public. These are not the actions of a "good guy."
I also find it interesting that he states he will not use the Expanded Universe because it was not in the movies. All well and good, except that in excluding the Expanded Universe one omits a lot of crucial detail about the nature of the Empire. The Expanded Universe was created with Lucas' blessing, and information relating to it can be found on the official Star Wars website. I'd say that this information is safe to use. Of course, it goes without saying that said information demonstrates beyond a doubt the inherent cruelty of the Galactic Empire. So there.
~Chazzf
No statement is true, not even this one.
For an article that is intended to be humorous, I find it a rather try and sparkless piece. Compared to the discussion in the movie "Clerks"...
Go here and search the text for "Jedi or". Sorry, I tried pasting the funny bit from the script in here, but I have given up trying to please this damn Slashdot code about how many characters per line I use. *curses loudly*.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen.
Much as I disapprove of Pinochet; and agree that on an absolute scale he is a pretty despicable character, he was relatively benign when compared to dictators. He killed thousands of people and not millions like, Pol-Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Mao.
Further more, nature is entirely dictatorial, kills millions of people a year, and to quote my Physics teacher 'nothing kills like the laws of physics'. Does that make Nature or Physics evil or immoral ? I would suggest that dictatorship is actually amoral, neither good or evil, it simply is.
forget comparing Star Wars to the American Revolution, look at Israel vs. the Palestinians. The palestinians are a rebel alliance devoted to nothing more than destroying the "evil" empire of israel (and the united states). their interpretation of evil is anything which contradicts the teachings of their Force-like religion known as Islam. 50 years ago Israel came in and took the Palestinians' land and imposed law and order on a region in chaos. the Palestinians fought back with terrorist attacks on military and civilian targets. Israel counters with invasions, assassinations, and wholesale destruction of buildings suspected of harboring terrorists, just like Alderaan. as a challenge to all those digital junkies out there, how about trying to change the music of one of the original pics, say Episode IV? give the Empire some uplifting, majestic, patriotic music. give the rebels something sinister and treacherous. i'd like to see if that change alone would completely reverse the "moral teachings" of the movie.
"You want a toe? I can get you a toe by three o'clock... with nail polish."
As a self appointed Star Wars demigod, I'll address this quite reasonable point. Something established in the books and hopefully cemented in Episode III is that the initial revolt against Palpatine and the New Order was led by Galactic/Imperial Senators. Leia Organa, Mon Mothman, Garm Bel Iblis, Bail Organa...they channeled funds and weapons to the first resistors.
The ships from Return of the Jedi that you speak of were supplied by the Mon Calamari, of Calamari, who were in open revolt against the Empire. Also visible were Corellian Covettes, comercially available, and Nebulon-B frigates hijacked from the Empire. This is a galaxy at war, there is a LOT of surplus hardware floating around. It doesn't seem all that unreasonable that the rebels could get their hands on old clonetrooper weapons.
~Chazzf
No statement is true, not even this one.
If it wasn't for the musical and obvious visual clues, we would have a hard time believing who was good vs. who was evil.
This may be over-stating the obvious, but IMHO, the story itself isn't that obvious.
that there is no such thing as good and evil, just different points of view.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
"We will continue to fight these terrorists, and the rogue governments who harbor them, until the universe is safe, once and for all, and the security of the Neo-New Cosmik Order ensured."
It was one year ago today that the Death Star, perhaps the greatest symbol of the Empire's might, was destroyed in an attack by fanatic Rebels, who used small, single-person crafts to infiltrate seemingly impenetrable defenses. Thousands of mourners were on hand to remember and pay tribute to the victims and their families.
"We lost our innocence that day," reflected one mourner. "I guess we thought we were immune from the kind of violence that happens in other galaxies. We were wrong." "I lost hundreds of buddies that day," said one teary-eyed Stormtrooper. "Guys whose only crime was trying make the Universe a safer place."
Although the day was colored by sadness, the mourners found some relief in the news of a decisive victory over the Rebels. In an attack led by Darth Vader, Empire forces were able to rout hundreds of Rebels from a network of caves underneath the surface of the planet Hoth. "We're not sure we got them all," says a Vader spokesman. "There are a lot of places to hide in those caves. But we've delivered a powerful blow to the terrorist's infrastructure, that's for sure. Today, the Empire has struck back."
Initial reports are unclear as to the fate of Luke Skywalker, a hero among the Rebels, who is rumored to have delivered the fatal blow to the Death Star. Skywalker, a former desert-dweller from the planet Tattooine, became a part of the Rebellion after family members were killed. Skywalker was trained by a militant wing of the Rebels, known as "Jedi Knights." Fanatical in their religious beliefs, the Jedi Knights claim to derive their power from the mystical "Force."
It's believed that Skywalker was specifically trained by infamous terrorist O bin Wankanobi. Wankanobi, occasionally called "Ben" and easily recognized by his bearded visage and long, flowing robes, achieved near-martyr status among the Rebels after his death last year during a spy mission. His more fervent followers believe that Wan Kenobi lives on within them today, some even claiming to hear his voice during times of duress.
The attack on the Death Star came shortly after the Empire's destruction of Alderstaan, a planet whose government was known to harbor terrorists. Responding to criticism over the total annihilation of the planet, Vader stated, "There is no middle ground in the War on Terror. Those who harbor terrorists are terrorists themselves. Alderaan was issued ample warning. The fight for continuing Freedom is often burdened by terrible cost."
The cost of this war can still be seen today in the continuing efforts to build a coalition government on Tattooine. Longstanding animosities among the planets various ethnic groups, including the Jawas, Tusken Raiders and scattered human settlers, have been an impediment to the peace process. The Empire continues to maintain a small peace keeping force until a provisional government is finally in place.
Much of the difficulty in fighting the Rebel forces stems from their lack of a central organizing structure. "They don't play by the traditional rules of war," complained one spokesman. "They come in all shapes and sizes, united only by their single-minded desire to destroy the Empire before it destroys them."
The Emperor closed his comments today by stating that "the cowardly attack on the Death Star left a deep scar on the Empire. However, we will not stop fighting until every last evildoer has been brought to justice." He paused for several moments, wiping away a tear and then added with determination, "We will never forget."
"I wish we could all just get along," said one of the mourners. "But it's hard to offer an olive branch to a cult of religious fanatics whose main tool is violence and who insist on calling us the Dark Side."
(I posted this once before, but it seemed appropriate to post it again :-)
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I would suggest that dictatorship is actually amoral, neither good or evil, it simply is.
Tyrant, when originally used in Rome, had good connotations; it implied someone with the talent and drive to step up, take control, and make things right. Simmilar in concept to the Jewish Judges in the Old Testememnt, but without divine mandate.
Tyrant (or dictator, or whatever you like) has taken on its current connotations due mainly to experience. People that garner that much power and have nothing to check them become corrupt, almost to the man. A dictatorship is, in and of itself, not evil, but the human condition is such that almost any man with a dictatorship will be.
Thomas Galvin
From the article:
By now it's grown clear that George Lucas has an agenda, one that he takes very seriously. After four "Star Wars" films, alarm bells should have gone off, even among those who don't look for morals in movies. When the chief feature distinguishing "good" from "evil" is how pretty the characters are, it's a clue that maybe the whole saga deserves a second look.
Just what bill of goods are we being sold, between the frames?
All in all, an interesting argument that reminds me of the article mentioned in this story.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
--
Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet.
--
When I first read that sentence, I honestly thought it was sarcasm. Then I became a bit disgusted when it wasn't. Things cannot be good or evil by themselves; people can. Just because Pinochet couldn't round up millions like Stalin or Hitler did, doesn't mean he didn't do the same thing with death squads and 'mysterious dissaperances'.
Dictatorships can be good or evil. The Romans (pre-Empire) had a good dictatorship system - a man was voted emergency powers for six months. The example is Cincinnatius, who was asked while he was working on his farm, went, won a war, gave up his powers, and returned to his farm, all in the span of a week or so. He forwent the other five months of his powers, didn't kill any of his countrymen, and defended Rome. Hitler, of course, is an evil dictator, and I don't particularly think I need to give examples.
I'd point out that while the author claims that he would only use the movies as sources, he then throws out things like the following lines
So which is it --- Movies only or movies and the expanded universe?
From the movies, the only past we know about Han is:
He was a smuggler for Jaba the Hutt.
He dumped his cargo prior to being boarded by an Imperial vessel. Jaba's pissed about that and wants his money back or Han dead.
Han's got a big furry buddy named Chewie (what a Wookie!)
Chewie is subservient to Han with no explanation why.
Han has a fast, if somewhat unreliable, ship called The Millenium Falcon which he won from Lando Calrissian "fair and square".
That's it. Nothing about academies, nothing about Han having been a cadet who certainly did not obtain the rank of captain in the imperial navy. That information is based solely on the expanded universe.
Again, it's conjecture that the Empire runs a meritocracy but if it is a meritocracy, how did Admiral Ozzel obtain his rank? He clearly knew nothing about tactics as he dropped out of hyperspace too close to Hoth. Why are there no women, minorities or aliens of rank in the Empire? Do these people not have merits? (Yes, I know about GA Thrawn and Mara Jade but we have limited our discussion to the film-based realm)
"My fingers Emit sparks of fire in Expectation of my future labours." William Blake
What struck me most while reading this is just how much of the same sort of logic is used to analyze the affairs of our own planet, with similar conclusions as to what is "good" and "evil".