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DeCSS' Continuing Saga

blankmange writes "Newsbytes is carrying a followup on the DeCSS and 2600's court cases: "The Electronic Frontier Foundation and the First Amendment Project today asked the California Supreme Court to uphold a lower court's decision to permit publication of the source code for DeCSS technology, which circumvents digital copy protection systems." Maybe it's not over yet..."

41 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. Will this kill Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    #include
    typedef unsigned int uint;
    char ctb[512]="33733b2663236b763e7e362b6e2e667bd393db06 43034b96de9ed60b4e0e4\
    69b57175f82c787cf125a1a528 fca8ac21fd999d1004909419 0d898d001480840913d7d35246\
    d2d65743c7c34256c2c64 75dd9dd5044d0d4594dc9cd4054c0 c449559195180c989c11058185\
    081c888c011d797df0247 074f92da9ad20f4a0a429f53135b8 6c383cb165e1e568bce8ec61bb\
    3f3bba6e3a3ebf6befeb6 abeeaee6fb37773f2267276f723a7 a322f6a2a627fb9f9b1a0e9a9e\
    1f0b8f8b0a1e8a8e0f15d 1d5584cd8dc5145c1c5485cc8cc41 5bdfdb5a4edade5f4bcfcb4a5e\
    cace4f539793120692961 703878302168286071b7f7bfa2e7a 7eff2bafab2afeaaae2ff";
    typedef unsigned char uchar;uint tb0[11]={5,0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4};uchar* F=NULL;
    uint lf0,lf1,out;void ReadKey(uchar* key){int i;char hst[3]; hst[2]=0;if(F==\
    NULL){F=malloc(256);for(i=0;i>2) ^(lf0>>16 ))b=((lf1\
    >>12)^(lf1>>20)^(lf1>>21)^(lf1&g t;>24))lf0=(lf0>1)\
    |(a>1)|(b>8)+x+y;} void \
    CSSdescramble(uchar *sec,uchar *key){uint i;uchar *end=sec+0x800;uchar KEY[5];
    for(i=0;i=0;\
    i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+ 1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key [tb0[i]];}void CSStitlekey2\
    (uchar *key,uchar *im){uchar k[5];int i;ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i=0;i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[ i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key\
    [tb0[i]];}void CSSdecrypttitlekey(uchar *tkey,uchar *dkey){int i;uchar im1[6];
    uchar im2[6]={0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0,0x00};for(i=0;i6; i++)im1[i]=dkey[i];
    CSStitlekey1(im1,im2);CSStitl ekey2(tkey,im1);}

    1. Re:Will this kill Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      you fool!! 7 lines of perl!

      #!/usr/bin/local/perl
      s''$/=\2048;while(<>){G=2 9;R=142;if((@a=unqT ="C*",_)[20]&48){D=89;_=unqb24,qT,@
      b=map{ord qB8,unqb8,qT,_^$a[--D]}@INC;s/...$/1$&/;Q=unqV , b25,_;H=73;O=$b[4]<<9
      |256|$b[3];Q=Q>>8^(P=(E=255 )&(Q>>1 2^Q>>4^Q/8^Q))<<17,O=O>>8^(E&amp ; F=(S=O>>14&7^O)
      ^S*8^S<<6))<<9,_=(map{U=_%16orE^= R^=11 0&(S=(unqT,"\xb\ntd\xbz\x14d")[_/16%8]);E
      ^=(72,@ z=(64,72,G^=12*(U-2?0:S&17)),H^=_%64?12 : ,@z)[_%8]}(16..271))[_]^((D>>=8
      )+=P+(~F&E))for@a [128..$#a]}print+qT,@a}';s/[D -HO-U_]/\$$&/g;s/q/pack+/g;eval

    2. Re:Will this kill Slashdot? by Kingstrum · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm sorry, could you phrase your question in the form of a virus ?

      *wink wink, nudge nudge*

      Wouldn't it be a pity if some wretched soul were to send out a virus whose sole purpose was to leave a copy of DeCSS in every computer it touched? Maybe buried 12 folders deep in some random spot on half the world's Windows boxes...

      The MPAA's own servers hosting a pop-up ad with the minimal Perl script showing up every now and then...

      Seems to me the "troublemakers" in our midst have been laying down on the job...so let's get going, boyos and girlos!

    3. Re:Will this kill Slashdot? by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Counting lines is a stupid way to measure code complexity. That 7 (6?) lines of perl is equally complex to the longer C code up above. The only reason you got it to fit in less lines was that you used shorter variable names, and more abbreviated shorthand ways of calling the same kinds of routines. To get a better idea of how complex a snippet of code is, don't count the lines, count the number of language tokens used. For example:

      while( )
      { G = 29;
      R = 142;
      ...etc...
      is no more amount of code than: while(){G=29;R=142;...etc...
      They both have the exact same grammar, and use the same number of tokens. They both take just as long to execute, but the more compact version takes more time for a human being to read. What is it about Perl that tends to make its proponets enjoy making write-only code?

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    4. Re:Will this kill Slashdot? by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 3, Funny

      What is it about Perl that tends to make its proponets enjoy making write-only code?

      They're frustrated APL wanna-bes?

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    5. Re:Will this kill Slashdot? by ozbird · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why not create a DeCSS stencil and give it to the IBM sidewalk artists?

  2. Mixed speech and content by jdavidb · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the brief, the DVD CCA argued that, "neither DeCSS nor Bunner's posting of it on the Internet is pure speech." Instead, the group said, courts have treated computer code as "nonspeech" or "mixed speech and content."

    All you l33t h4x0rz out there think you're entitled to free speech. That's just fine and dandy with the MPAA. Just remember that you're not allowed to put content into your speech without a license.

    1. Re:Mixed speech and content by beckett · · Score: 3, Funny

      actully, the fact that they have numbers intead of vowels in their name automatically disqualifies them from free speech.

  3. This is a DISASTER! by donnacha · · Score: 5, Funny


    Damn, if they make DeCSS legal, my ownership of a T-Shirt with the DeCSS code written on it will be completely meaningless!

    Let's hope that the lower court's decision is quashed.

    1. Re:This is a DISASTER! by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I regret I had but one T-Shirt to give for my country!

    2. Re:This is a DISASTER! by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 4, Informative

      Get said T Shirt here.

    3. Re:This is a DISASTER! by donnacha · · Score: 3, Funny


      Question is, do I get the one with the main source or the one with the decryption tables?

      Ideally you'd get both, but which is arguably the "most illicit"?

      Hell, forget illicit, wear whichever one looks cooler.

      Sometime we nerds have to compromise our principles in the interests of possibly, at some point, getting some.

  4. It's on tshirts, bumper stickers, why not sigs by sanermind · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why not put the deCSS program text in your email signature, so everytime you email a friend you 'polute' their spools, servers, backups, with yet another offending copy.

    --

    ---
    the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
  5. Story not about 2600 by Eric+Seppanen · · Score: 5, Informative
    This story is about the case that's in California, and getting batted back and forth among California state courts. No trial has happened yet; they're still arguing over preliminary injunctions and jurisdiction.

    The 2600 case was in federal court in New York. They lost the trial, and were also shot down by the federal appeals court.

    --
    314-15-9265
    1. Re:Story not about 2600 by stevew · · Score: 3, Informative

      A couple of points - California is under the 9th circuit which has previously held that code=speech. Not the case in other jurisdictions. So a state court saying it's speech is just going along with the 9th circuit.

      The other point that is interesting is that the damn DVD CCA claims the secrets were stolen. No -they were reverse engineered. There is a BIG difference! That little point seems to be lost in the shuffle.

      Stolen implies someone walked into a vendor that had the secret and swipped it some how. Taint the case. A teenager working on his computer at home worked it out. Hmm - doesn't that make it not a trade secret anymore?????

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
  6. Excellent point by SocialWorm · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The article sayth:
    "[This] is not an interest that is 'more fundamental' than the First Amendment right to freedom of speech or even on equal footing with the national security interests or other vital governmental interests that have previously been found insufficient to justify a prior restraint."

    Seriously, since when did the ??AA's become more powerful or important than national security? Who put them on their pedestal? Who died and gave them the monarchy?

    Just shows you where this country's priorities are. Trading freedom for security is bad enough. Trading freedom for entertainment is disgusting.
    --
    My Blog: http://nic.dreamhost.com/
  7. proof that DMCA is ambiguous.... by jeffy124 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    in NY, 2600 was told to take down DeCSS.

    in CA, Brunner was told he was allowed to keep it up.

    Anyone catch that? Two similar if not identical cases have different rulings based on the same law.

    Questions --
    Have there been other sets of cases that have had the same law interpreted in two different directions? What was the outcome? Are such laws considered ambiguous and thus in need of clarification? Who makes taht decision?

    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:proof that DMCA is ambiguous.... by mike_the_kid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Questions --
      Have there been other sets of cases that have had the same law interpreted in two different directions? What was the outcome? Are such laws considered ambiguous and thus in need of clarification? Who makes taht decision?


      This is generally one of the situations in which the Supreme Court will step in, that is, if two states rule differently on a federal law, it is up to no one but the Supreme Court to sort it out.

      The Supreme Court only accepts a small percentage of the cases they are asked to hear, but then again generally the states follow each other's precident.
      --
      Troll Like a Champion Today
    2. Re:proof that DMCA is ambiguous.... by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Based on the same law? I don't think so. The NY case was about DMCA. The CA case is about trade secrets.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  8. Re:DeCSS Should be Free to Distribute. by malfunct · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The funny part about this (as I understand it) is that its entirely unecessary to have DeCSS to copy a DVD. DeCSS was only to play the dvd.

    --

    "You can now flame me, I am full of love,"

  9. Not stolen secret! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Historically, the dissemination of stolen trade secrets has not been protected by the First Amendment," the DVD CCA wrote in its brief. It said the injunction, "was not aimed at restricting speech, but was intended solely to protect against the evisceration of trade secrets that are the motion picture industry's critical means of defense against widespread digital pirating of its valuable copyrighted works."

    This secret was not stolen, it was reverse-engineered! Their argument is bullsh**.

    1. Re:Not stolen secret! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      It wasn't reverse-engineered cleanly, though.
      Remember that is was obtained by looking through unencrypted code in the Xing player.
      The guy who wrote it even admited that an anonymous source led him to the Xing player to look for the one key to break. After that, the rest of the manufacturer keys were cracked with ease.

      If it had been a clean room reverse, then they would have more of a leg to stand on.

  10. Abe had it right... by pstreck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.... Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
    -Abraham Lincoln

    --

    Later,
    Phil
  11. No matter how they twist it, it is speech. by Eric+Damron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Historically, the dissemination of stolen trade secrets has not been protected by the First Amendment," the DVD CCA wrote in its brief."

    This "trade secret" was NOT stolen. No one hacked into anybody's computer or broke into anyone's office to steal anything. The encryption technique was reverse engineered which IS legal. Discussing the reverse engineering process and ones findings with others IS legal and protected by the first amendment.

    --
    The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
  12. Re:but its stull sux by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 5, Insightful
    so why should they care if a few people can't copy DVDs?

    That is the problem, and by calling it an issue of DVD copying you further the problem. This is not an issue of being able to copy DVDs or to post code. This is an issue of linking to someone that posts code. The next step is to stop someone from talking about DeCSS. Soon, if there is a crime, the TV news cannot report on the crime -- hearing about the crime might enable someone to commit the crime.
  13. Idea for ThinkGeek... by bedessen · · Score: 5, Funny

    Take a Sharpie marker pen and print one of the CSS descramblers on it. Hey, now you've got a convenient 2-in-1 DCMA infringement device. Somebody get the ThinkGeek product guys on the phone...

  14. the saving coup de grace by js7a · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If it weren't for the fact that felt-tip pens, through the most hilarious twist of fate in a long time, have been outlawed as circumvention devices by the DMCA, then there would be little chance of exposing the absurdity and abject unconstitutionality of the DMCA to nontechnical men and women on the street -- and in the jury box.

    As of last week, this was too close to call. Now the DMCA doesn't have a chance.

    Thank you, Sony, for the copy protection scheme that outlawed the sharpie! Humanity can not thank you enough for the amount of wasted time you've saved. Somewhere on Sony's recently pensioned retirement roles I just know there is some Japanese engineer chuckling silently to himself. Too bad he can't tell his countrymen how he saved the U.S. from the corporate media monopolies.

  15. I don't condone piracy... by germinatoras · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I understand why the MPAA wants to protect its intellectual property, but they need to fight piracy by either making the factory-made products worth buying or prosecute those individuals who pirate them. I want to be able to rip a VOB and play it back on my laptop without having to break the law in the process. I think that the MPAA would rather strip millions of legitimate users of their rights to fair use, rather than spend the money to fight a few individuals who are massively distributing illegal copies of a copyrighted product.

  16. Correct me if I'm wrong.. by warpSpeed · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "No stolen trade secret can survive if the courts are powerless to enjoin its widespread disclosure," the brief said.

    Hasn't DeCSS already experience wide spread disclosure. This is kind of like closing the barn door after the horse has left the building.

    It is the RIAA/MPAA that are becoming powerless...

  17. The DVDCCA have a point by Rupert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you have a trade secret, and someone posts it to, e.g., Slashdot, that does not give every /. reader the right to republish it on their personal websites.

    Now, if you have 400 trade secrets, and you burn them all onto a shiny metal disk, and you sell 20 million copies of that disk, and someone works out from one of those disks what the secrets are, your case is a lot weaker. Independent discovery is, AFAIK, a defense against trade secret violations (and copyright, too, but not patents or trademarks).

    --

    --
    E_NOSIG
    1. Re:The DVDCCA have a point by Wanker · · Score: 3, Informative
      Most of those law-talkin' guys would agree that independent discovery and reverse engineering are protection from trade secrets.

      For example:

      http://www.lawguru.com/faq/19.5.html

  18. Funny Storry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So this guy says to me "#!/usr/bin/perl
    # 472-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz
    # MPEG 2 PS VOB file -> descrambled output on stdout.
    # usage: perl -I :::: qrpff
    # where k1..k5 are the title key bytes in least to most-significant order

    s''$/=\2048;while(){G=29;R=142;if((@a=unqT="C*", _) [20]_=unqb24,qT,@
    b=map{ord qB8,unqb8,qT,_^$a[--D]}@INC;s/...$/1$Q=unqV,qb25,_ ; =73;O=$b[4]>8^(P=(E=255)>12^Q>>4^Q/8^Q ))>8^(E>14=8
    )+=P+(~Fs/[D-HO-U_]/\$$s/q/pack+/g;e val
    ".

    So of course I punched him.

  19. Let's take it to the street by browser_war_pow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The CBDTPA is actually very good for the movement to bring about the death of legislation like the DMCA. I saw a review of the CBDTPA in a roanoke paper about 2 weeks ago and it was really cool seeing a common newspaper make a big feature in its op-ed section about the CBDTPA. People trust newspapers a lot more than they trust websites. Newspapers cost money to produce (so do websites), but websites don't in the eyes of John Q. Citizen. Anyone can make a website is the general view, even though hosting a major website requires an assload of money to pay for bandwidth, high end equipment and a full time staff. Using the Internet to propagandize is not as easy as people think.

    What we need are Win32 and OS X open source or free as in beer cd/dvd rippers that make defeating copy restrictions as easy as installing a new plugin. We need to force the issue by making the cartels so desparate they call for the complete destruction of individual property rights as they pertain to IP. The CBDTPA wasn't quite that, we need to get them so desparate that they propose something that makes it a felony to own a computer that can copy music and movies. We need to make John Q. Citizen so scared of their proposals that he says, "listen asshole, you have two choices, protect my rights or their bottom line. You know where I'm voting now!!" to their representatives out of anger and sheer rage. Essentially we need to take demagoguery to a new level, if you support these industries you are supporting your child's inevitable felony prison sentence for making a custom workout mix cd.

    What we can do are the following

    1. Make easily read and intepretted brochures for distribution at elections that say in plain English what copyright laws do and would do if enacted.
    2. Tell people where their representatives really stand. In those brochures show how they voted and again, say in plain English what the nastier parts of the law really do
    3. Use as many controversial quotes by the RIAA and MPAA's executives whenever possible. Take away the image that they are hard working capitalists, and help make them look like lobbyists for corporate welfare babies.
    4. Make these companies look like they have complete and utter contempt (which admittedly a lot of them actually do) for their customers not just as property owners, but as human beings. Make them look like they could give a damn less about individual rights and that they will not stop trying to use the government to violently crush competition until they themselves are crushed by either the government or (preferably) the marketplace.
    5. Use industry statistics to show that most artists never get compensated anyway and show that copying cannot be stealing because it creates new property
    6. and finally, tell the people that they can make a difference. They can buy music from local bands, buy cds used so they aren't funding their oppressors, allow others to access their mp3s if they have broadband.

    We must make these people look like absolute monsters to the public. We must find ways to associate RIAA/MPAA with the same feelings that most people reserve for Fascists and Communists. The average person must start looking at it from this perspective, "he is not advocating compensating people for their work, he is advocating the annihilation of my property rights." Once we have achieved that, we can effectively dismantle modern copywrong law and get it back to being constitutional copyright law.

  20. Great thought...maybe the real fight is elsewhere by johnlcallaway · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How can it be a trade secret if every DVD manufacturer knows it?? Isn't a trade secret is something makes one company more competetive than others in the same or similar field. Even www.dictionary.com (via American Heritage) defines a trade secret as:
    trade secret n. A secret formula, method, or device that gives one an advantage over competitors
    What is it about the DVD encryption algorithm that gives DVD manufacturers a competitive advantage over, say putting a movie on video tape? If I learn the secret formula for Pepsi, I can make all the Pepsi I want for my own use, and there isn't a damn thing Pepsico can do. But I probably couldn't market a similar brand without paying fees. Isn't using the DeCSS algorithm the same thing?

    Now, if I found a secret to making a DVD with less costs or faster, that would be a trade secret. Or if I found a way to improve the quality of the image or put more data on the disk, that would be a trade secret. That is, until everyone found out about it. Then it becomes common knowlege.

    Maybe we are fighting this, and other things like DCMA, the wrong way. Maybe it is time to bring unfair trade practice laws to bear and be the plaintiff for a change.

    The disadvantage of being a monopoly is you have to play even fairer. Well, maybe in theory anyway.
    --
    I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
  21. Re:but its stull sux by binaryDigit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is an issue of linking to someone that posts code

    Interesting point. Warning, this is not a troll, this is a legit question that I think is a good analogy here. If sorehands is correct, lets say I have a website that has a link to some kiddie porn. Now I don't host the porn myself, I just knowingly have a link to it. Now is my linking to it illegal? If my site were a kiddie porn search engine, would it make it any more legal since I only provide a service. More interestingly, if my site were a site for parents so they could have a list of kiddie porn sites to say add to their nanny filters, would _that_ be illegal. Does the intent of my site make a difference since the link is there all the same?

    One thing I do have a beef about, and that's people who use the "give'em an inch and they'll take a mile" mentality. "the TV news cannot report on the crime", yeah, right. And soon even mentioning crime would be illegal, heck even muttering the word will get you thrown in the slam. Sorry, had to have my little rant there.

  22. slashcode saves the day! by mister+sticky · · Score: 3, Interesting
    ...76f723a7 a322f6a2...

    looks like the annoying space that slashcode throws in really long strings has come to the rescue: this probably won't compile correctly.
    That raises the question though, what if 2600 had originally posted the code with a small bug in it that could easily be seen and removed. On its own the code would not do anything illegal, since it wouldn't compile. However, by using simple debugging (i'm not talking about more than one error, or a complicated one) it could be made to do something that they could attack.
    Or maybe i'm way off, because I haven't really been following this issue too closely.
  23. Re:but its stull sux by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Informative

    Considering that the reporting organization doesn't know that DeCSS gets around the -playback- control mechanism, not the -copy protection- mechanism(since there isn't one), I'd say we're pretty screwed.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  24. The most important part? by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the article:
    In addition, the court found that DeCSS is "pure speech" for the purposes of First Amendment protection.

    Say what you will about CA, our courts get it! This is from the CA State Appeals Court Ruling.

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  25. Re:Great thought...maybe the real fight is elsewhe by jms · · Score: 5, Informative

    How can it be a trade secret if every DVD manufacturer knows it??

    It's a trade secret of an organization called the "DVD Copy Control Association" - or, the DVDCCA.

    They license the trade secret to all of the player manufacturers, and in return, the player manufacturers sign a contract that, among other things, forbids them from building DVD players with unencrypted digital outputs, and requires them to include Macrovision distortion in the analog output signal. The contract also forbids the disclosure of the CSS algorithm.

    The result is that, prior to DeCSS, if you wanted to manufacture DVD players, you needed to sign the contract and agree to the terms in order to obtain the necessary technology to decode DVDs.

    Now, the CSS algorithm is cracked.

    The danger that the industry is facing is this. If CSS is deemed, by the courts, to be a legitimately reverse-engineered trade secret, then the CSS decoding process would enter the public domain. If that were to happen, it would clear the way for the manufacture of DVDs without having to obey the restrictions of the CSS contract.

    In other words, it would allow companies to start manufacturing DVD players with such desirable features as no Macrovision, and digital MPEG outputs. But it wouldn't allow all companies to do so ...

    ... only those companies that had not signed a contract with the DVDCAA. In other words, the entire current player industry would be shut out -- they would be still required, by their DVDCCA contracts, to install Macrovision, and not offer digital outputs. This would be a disaster for the current crop of player manufacturers.

    There's a reason that they are fighting so hard to force CSS into the category of "stolen trade secret" -- by sheer force of will, apparently. If DeCSS were to be ruled a stolen trade secret, then the courts would prevent anyone else from making commercial use of the algorithm.

    This would be an incredible win for the movie industry -- they would receive what would be in effect a perpetual patent -- the right to exclude others from employing a process.

    Note that they are fighting this battle on different fronts -- the DMCA case is to try and outlaw the dissemination of the algorithm. The Trade Secret case is to try and outlaw the implementation of the algorithm. They are fighting tooth and nail to control not the right to manufacture DVD players, but the right to dictate what features may and may not be included in DVD players.

  26. Re:but its stull sux by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 3, Insightful
    OK, time for an philosophical question. Should free speech be considered an absolute right (i.e. no limitations placed on it at all)?


    Free speach doesn't mean the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

    Disseminating some information is actually harmful to others (for example, a web page of credit card numbers). The harm caused by the dissemination must be considered.

    In the SOF case, there's a secondary consideration, after determining that the ad was harmful information, and that the harm was sufficient to warrent not printing it, then you need to prove that SOF knew (or should have known) that the ad was harmful, and printed it anyway.

    -- this is not a .sig
  27. Re:Linked content can change without your knowing by David+Gould · · Score: 3, Insightful


    This is just yet another part of the problem of people not understanding linking in general (and one that I'll admit I hadn't thought of in those terms).

    I guess the concept of what a URL really is (the difference between information as to the location of a document and the document itself) is just "too technical". Given that what a user sees in a browser is a blue, underlined title (which they've been trained to recognize as something they are supposed to click on) on your web page "turning into" the other document, how could they not think of your page as containing that document?

    Is it that they can't comprehend that "All that's actually there is the equivalent of a library card-reference, or an ISBN number, and when you click it, you're asking your computer to use that information, find the other document, and display it in place of this one."? That's the best way I've come up with to word it, but I still see a lot of glazed-over eyes.

    But wait -- lawyers and judges (aside from being pretty smart fellas in general, jokes about them notwithstanding) have their own system of references to legal texts. They fully understand how the inclusion in a brief of a reference to a piece of case law, or a section of a statute, or whatever, is equivalent to, but not the same as, attaching a copy of that text, because they know that the reader will (a) understand the conventions used and (b) have access to a law library where they can look it up. Is the connection so hard to make?

    Maybe they (back to people in general, not just lawyers and judges) do understand that part, for what it's worth, but just don't see what's so important about it -- maybe the funny looks are not so much "What are you talking about?" as "So what's the big deal?"

    The thing is, the whole power of hypertext -- fundamentally, what makes the web so revolutionary -- is precisely the fact that it blurs the line between reference and content. In a world where everyone has at his disposal armies of little gnomes who can, in a matter of seconds and at marginal cost, dash off to the Library of Congress, get a copy of a book, and bring it back to you, whenever you merely give them a reference number, giving someone such a number really is in a sense "equivalent" to giving them a copy of the book.

    This does lead to legal issues -- in this case, it's the legality of the linked-to content and the linker's liability therefor; in other cases like deep-linking of articles and images, it's the copyright status of that content. In either case, the response to the conflict depends on one's assumptions and priorities.

    Should the policy be: "Well, since we obviously can't restrict mere linking, for freedom-of-speech reasons, and since linking is in a sense equivalent to dissemination, I guess that (to that extent) we can't restrict dissemination either, and if copyright interests suffer, too bad."?

    Or should it be: "Well, since we obviously can't allow free dissemination, for copyright reasons, and since linking is in a sense equivalent to dissemination, I guess that (to that extent) we can't allow free linking either, and if freedom of speech suffers, too bad."?

    --
    David Gould
    main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}